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Work Load at SGU?
by AltGAl7 (no login)
I was wondering what the work load is like at SGU.
What is a typical day like....when do classes start, when do they end? How much do you study on weeknights? on weekends? How often do you have tests? Are they all clumped together or spread out?
Also, what is the "feeling" of the school? Is there cut-throat competition all the time? Is everyone tense all the time and worried about grades? Do people relax there or is everyone doing work there 24/7?
Is it true that pediatrics, internal medicine and family medicine are less competitive residencies? What sorts of grades and board scores would you need to get pediatrics or family medicine?
Thanks!
Posted on Apr 12, 2001, 2:06 PM from IP address 170.140.78.144
classes during the basic sciences.................
by always make love with a trojan (no login)
They tend to be in the Morning with labs in the afternoon.........
Yeah, the work load is pretty heavy and you have to spend time studying....but there most people go out of their way to make free time
Think classes from 8-12
lunch from twelve to one
any labs, discussions, or hospital visits in the afternoon
I played basketball at grand anse at around three
or went running and worked out afterwards.....
goof off until 6-8 shower
had dinner at Glovers since i had an account their
watch sports on tv or whatever tv show was on while having dinner and start studying around 9-10 and study untill two am
this was compressed in the week before midterm and finals
weekends.....i would study study for several hours and than go out......or go out and thanm study
it all depends on what your comfortable with but remember the most important thing to make time for is yourself...
Family medicine or pediatrics is relatively common place at sgu so board scores around 200 is cool...
but it also depends on where you want to go and the caliber of the program
john
Posted on Apr 12, 2001, 2:42 PM from IP address 209.108.11.67
Formal class time varies term to term with first term being the dencest with labs galore. (though its a bit different from when I was a student in restructure)
Having said that, if you want you sure can work 24 hours a day. All your life you told yourself not to procrastinate. Now you have to learn to tell youself when to stop. Learn to be efficient from here on and in.
How much do you study weekdays and weekends? as much as you have to. As I say you can never stop or you can be smart and put it away. Organize, set aside soem time and that's it.
You will have unified quizes and midterms and finals
By and large the student body is very supportive. Every incomm ing class has a "feel" as you say. Traditionally, the Jan class for some reason is "twitchier" than the aug class, god knows why. Usually its a much higher male percentage. Does that (or the lack of equal female matching) have anything to do with it? Just the profile? Dunno. But tradiationally its a supportive group without backstabing. Its a competitive bunch but again not cutthroat. Upperclass men are great allies.
People do relax. Take up a sport.
PEds/IM /FP are less compeitive.
Pass the boards. Get mostly A's on clinicals. (or at least B's in the UK where grades are not doled out so generously.)
Hope this helps
Steph
Posted on Apr 12, 2001, 5:02 PM from IP address 24.4.252.18
as for residencies....competiveness can vary, this year there were a lot more surgery positions open post match than in the past...internal medicine and peds had very few positions open in the state of new york post match and family practice was wide open (which wasnt the case a few years back)...but don't forget there are other factors in determining the competiveness of a residency, ie. location (manhattan vs moonshine-west virginia, program (uni vs. non uni), program perks (believe me, people look at whether call is Q2,Q7 or float, and #vacation days...), etc...
Posted on Apr 12, 2001, 8:23 PM from IP address 152.163.194.203
Schedule for Jan first term has been classes 1-5PM... then a four hour morning for histo,...two four hour labs in the morning for anat... then two off anatomy day labs for clinical skills or bsf training....and then they have DES seven days a week at night all hours pretty much in all subjects....and you'll want to go to your favorite 'student teachers'a couple times a weak for your tougher subjects for about an hour... oh and wednesdays we have the visiting speakers at five-some of those presentations really are very interesting. Hotel wise, on the sgu website they have a star number for flight discounts and the school gets a discount at a hotel in the area...I think the grand beach resort or something. I'd give the bayshore office a ring for arrangements and they'll save you some money and headaches to boot.
Posted on Apr 12, 2001, 7:29 PM from IP address 200.50.71.143
I have been considered for the August class. I was granted an interview contingent on retaking the April MCAT which I am planning on doing. My interview went fantastic. My interviewer said that she would highly recommend me. My questions stem from the fact that taking the April MCAT means that my scores would not be back until the end of June. I have been reading many posts talking about dorms and flights with limited seating for August. Clearly this concerns me. Does anyone have an advice or words of wisdom to aid in peace of mind.
thanks of much
Posted on Mar 21, 2001, 5:25 AM from IP address 129.171.137.226
Did they say that you can have an interview but have to retake the MCAT, or MCAT was brought up after the interview?
What are your stats?
Describe where, who and how the interview went.
I have one scheduled for this Sunday, therefore I am looking for people with recent interview experience.
As to limited seating question, consider going higher price ticket, it will allow you to return it if necessary (hopefully not!). Order it in advance, you should be able to return it up to two weeks before the flight.
Good luck
H.
Posted on Mar 21, 2001, 7:36 AM from IP address 208.235.91.44
I received a phone call from the school stating that they would grant me an interview if I would retake the MCAT. I already had my interview Feb 9. It went better than great. Super relaxed atmosphere. I live in Miami but my interview was in Ft. Lauderdale. It was conducted by the sister of the anatomy professor at St. George's.
I was given the choice of three questions to write a short essay on.
1. Three things/qualities that would make you a good doctor.
2. Describe a time/moment in your life that was a significant turning point.(something like that)
3. Who was a role model in your life.
The questions were something along those lines.
It lasted 2 to 2 and a half hours. I happened to have a lot in common with the interviewer. Which lead to much to talk about.
We just covered all bases with everything that I have done and what I am doing now. Volunteer work, research, work, etc...
My grades are okay. Earlier ones not so good. I took some time off so my later grades are fine. around a 3.3 science.
Thanks for your advice on the ticket situation. Much luck to you. My advice is to be yourself and respond very openly and ask questions.
Posted on Mar 21, 2001, 11:59 AM from IP address 129.171.137.226
and believe it or not, I was accepted. I had a
very low score, probably one of the lowest.
I guess something else on my application compensated
for it. So hang in there; it really can still work.
Posted on Mar 22, 2001, 10:43 PM from IP address 205.188.200.27
think low, and it was lower. Fortunately,
other factors on my application compensated
for it. I would encourage anyone who doesn't feel
as qualified as the average applicant to apply, because there may still be a chance for you, as there was for me. Don't give up....there is always hope.
Best of luck, and keep the forum posted.
Posted on Mar 25, 2001, 8:28 PM from IP address 205.188.193.183
Its not out of the question that you'd be still considered for qug even with scores coming in june. however if all goes well with the mcat, your worst case would be your being "rolled over" to the jan '02 class. Just call the school and chat with someone about itl tey might give oyu a better feel for how things are going.
steph
Posted on Mar 24, 2001, 3:09 PM from IP address 199.224.105.120
Thank you so much for the advice. I was told that if all goes well it would be for the 8/01 class. It is just a bit nerve racking waiting as well as knowing all that would have to be done in a short time if I were to be accepted.
Posted on Mar 27, 2001, 11:30 AM from IP address 129.171.137.226
Great to see a very active SGU board and I hope somebody would help me with this question that I have. I just got my result for the USMLE and its around 220. Now, I am wondering as a SGU graduate, would that exclude me from most of the 'preferred' residency and/or location (ie CA)? What would I need to do from now to even contemplate getting a residency in CA. What is the best book to preread for med rotation.
Thanks in advance
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 1:20 PM from IP address 24.24.186.153
i don't think it is worth buying
So steal it from a friend
it is an excellent starting point
Read through the IM section
It goes over the basics pretty well
It gives you a good idea of what to expect
Remember, the better understanding you have of your basic sciencer....the easier the clinical sciences will be
b/c you now get to apply them to real life situations
Second, subscribe to MDconsult......
the best invention since the stethoscope
or, in my case, the drill
It has some insane number of full clinical texts
which is awesome to looke up any thing you have a questions on
It, also, has some insane number of journals
All of the common ones, so if you need to do any research
It looks really sharp when presenting a patient to an attending resident or anybody...if you are able to pull pertinent articles about your case...
I did that today with my DKA patient who had concomittant pancreatitis
You, also, learn a lot more in less time since you are not looking up that you want through numerous journals or running back and forth from medline to the library shelves......
If you are a real gunner and have lots of free time....grab general review articles on things you are absolutely sure to see during your rotation and read up on them......
It usually gives you current thoughts on pathophysiology, tx and management of a DZ process
If done carefully and with some diligence this can be very helpful.....
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 7:29 PM from IP address 63.204.132.72
and well done on the boards. Youll probably be able to get many or most residencies depending upon your clinical rotations, step 2, letter sof recc and SENDING IN ERAS EARLY WHEN THE TIME COMES.
California is something you can probably do for most things, but the more competitive the residency the more difficult just by probability. FOcus on being a good doc and dont underestimate what you need to learn for step 2. Most go down. And SEND IN RES APPS EARLY-NOT JUST ON TIME!!
Steph
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 7:47 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
DOOH! COngratulations...I completetly forgot and that is an awesome score...
by Amlwat (no login)
you'll do well
just do what steph said concentrate on being a good Doctor
John's pet peeve
remember the most important thing to do in your third year is read......most don't do nearly enough of it
Staying long hours in the hospital is cool but don't
let it hinder your learning.....Too many people forget the reading part and believe that the longer they stay in the hospital the more they will know.....not true, your step two score should not fall....most people don't study nearly enough for their rotations and try to coast by on personality and hard work........it will come back to bite you in the ass on step 2
john
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 7:59 PM from IP address 63.204.132.72
1. Are there campus computer labs with high tech computers that are always connected to the internet? Is there a fee to use these computers? Are there any specific hours? And let me guess- we can't really call up peeps from these computers? Is a personal labtop NECESSARY or will I survive without one? If i bring a labtop, should I bring a printer too?
2. For food, while living in the dorms, is there like a prepaid food plan you buy for a semester/year? If so, would anyone have a rough estimate how much this plan would be and how many meals are included in it? Do the dorms have a common kitchen where students can cook their own food?
3. How's the long distance phone service there? Or should i just buy tons of phone cards?
4. What's the voltage down there? 210v?
Thanks again.
Me
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 7:23 PM from IP address 63.210.127.117
1- there are two computer labs in the library. One in the anatomy lab (small room). Computers are in good shape. On weekends they open till 12. Weekday they open till 2:00a.m. you cannot call peeps from these comps. Labtops are very helpful. Personally I cant go anywhere without it. It will help you in Histology, Anatomy, viewing the old test bank q's, etc. Most student have labtops. I recommend it!
2- In grand anse campus you can open a meal plan with "the ladies" restaurant. Plan varies. I had mine $100 for 13 meals. I am not sure if there are suck plans in true Blue campus. In grand anse there are stoves near The Ladies and a microwave for students.
3- long distance calls very expensive. Every minutes is about 80 american cents. If you want to make long distance calls, use internet phone service, which is free. (another reason to have a labtop!)
Dont try to get any phone cards to Grenada. they simply wotn work here. I tried some.
4- voltage is 220-250V. Bring two/three super powerful surge.
Good Luck,
First termer,
Samer
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 10:15 PM from IP address 200.50.71.64
With simply a set of headphones and a microphone you can call anywhere in the US for free through providers such as MSN, Yahoo, Truly Global, etc. while on the internet. It is the perfect way to stay in touch from Grenada, as you can call into the US for free (but the US can't call Grenada). Obviously, you have to pay for your ISP, since you can't make calls from the campus computers.
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 2:18 PM from IP address 200.50.71.42
I'm not sure that a laptop is absolutely necessary. It is true, you will get CDs for anatomy and histology that are helpful study tools, but you can use these in the computer lab on True Blue. A laptop is convenient if you want constant access to the internet and you live at Grand Anse, where there are no computer labs, or if you are planning to do a lot of free internet calling. It is somewhat convenient to be able to check up on the latest news online from your room. But if you don't bring a laptop, you will not be at an academic disadvantage. I think the school exaggerates the need to bring a laptop.
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 8:05 AM from IP address 200.50.72.252
Just wondering what sort of stuff residency directors like to see on CV's. Is it really all that important to do research? I don't want to land a surgical residency or any other competitive ones. IM is fine with me. I am begining to wonder if I need to start doing a lot of outside stuff or if I should just concentrate on kicking butt on the boards.
Posted on Apr 12, 2001, 4:59 AM from IP address 200.50.71.96
Research isn't "important" for something like IM, but as always it is nice on a cv and shows something about you. I love clinical research so Im always happy to do it.
stpeh
Posted on Apr 12, 2001, 6:33 AM from IP address 162.129.128.111
Hello,
I'm looking for opinions on whether going to a foreign medical school in Ireland(Royal College of Surgeons) or St. George's in Grenada would be better. On the surface I would guess that it "looks" better to come from a European school. The flip side is that at St. George's the clinical years are done in the US which might be of more help when it comes time to apply for a residency. Any advice is much appreciated.
Eric
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 10:23 AM from IP address 207.75.134.101
I should prelude by telling you that as an SGU grad at johns hopkins I have a husband who taught for yeart at Uni college of dublin, and a freind graduating from there going to duke internal med
Royal college and UCD are excellnt. Check what the pass rates are becuase they dont gear for the USMLE (they are irish schools) while SGU does. But you can do very well from there. Further more, you must do at least one extra year.
From ireland you dont rotate in the US which is to detrement but they have very good relatinships with many excellent hospitals in the US. Bottom line, either, Just personalize it. Consider UCD as well as RCS and SGU.
Steph
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 10:29 AM from IP address 162.129.128.157
Thanks for the reply,
It sounds like you're saying that SGU is probably going to prep me better than RCS for USMLE, will be better from a residency standpoint, from a time standpoint, RCS is $23K/yr but takes 5yrs so SGU is less expensive. The major question in my mind is if the reputation of RCS is so much better than SGU and will help more down the road, than the positives of SGU. Is it more of a case that they are both top schools and both foreign, so it doesn't matter. Will people(residency directors, and department chairmen/women) consider them both foreign schools and not differentiate? This is kind of beside the point, but I would rather be in a tropical climate than a rainy one, but I don't want to let something like that factor into my decision unless there is nothing else to differentiate them. Thanks
Eric
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 1:54 PM from IP address 207.75.134.49
actually, IOm not quite saying that. Im saying both are excelelnt choices. I dont know the pass rates for the USMLE at RCS for those who take it and you should ask.
Also with the extra year I dont know what the cost difference is. While sgu is expensive it hasnt changed in fee since I went in 1995 which is something (hell its cheaper at least than georgetown.)
BOth Irish and SGU are IMG (international medical grad) and what I know personally and statistically sgu is that its excelelnt. What I know of irish is that you likely will do extremely well form there too. Its comes down to what's right for you, not least of which is the extra year or two.
All the best,
Steph
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 4:00 PM from IP address 24.4.252.18
Hi Steph. Where did you hear about cutting down on FMG's returning to US residency in 3 years time? That would be disastrous news for all of us contemplating borrowing 150,000 to go to SGU and be graduating in four years. EEEEK! On a personal note - do you feel that the bulk of the restrictions will be placed upon non-citizen IMG's in the form of visa issues, or do you think it will be the threat of cutting HCFA (Medcare/Medicaid)funding for teaching hospitals and cutting positions that way? I continuously hear the stories of 21,000 spots for 16,000 US grads, necessity of cheap labor, inability to pass this kind of cuts in the past, that provide solace. I gotta say though, you've got me tremblin....WMG
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 10:46 AM from IP address 161.223.167.84
First I advise everyone to do a little google.com search on 1996 and residency cut backs. this was the environment I came into and they wanted to cut back from125% spots abvous us med students (Ie assuming incorrectly that everyone would pick a us grad first, there would be 25% left over for IMGS) to 110%.
It never happened. there was a cut back but not much and then what happened? Check my site http://travel.to/sgusom and click on the april 99 article about how it failed in the pilot state of N miserablle. Why? well gosh dern it, those damned patients just kept getting sick and they need the residents. So they reexpanded.
While no one can predict the future, I have to tell you that this has been an "issue" (ie IMGs) since the 1970's. So far, they've not rid the world of us.
I havent heard of any specific real threat to cut residencies in three years. In fact med school rates ar dropping so the issue is likely to settle on its own as there are more spots than students in the (far) furture.
I wasnt the one who said they were going to cut in three yeaers; I dont think they will. I reserve the right to be wrong but even so, I dont htink I am. The big scare was 5 years ago and flopped.
Our residencies have been getting better and better year by year. we are in the heart of that trend so no Im not scared. It wouldnt stop me from going now to SGU or Ireland or another good IMG school. to the extend that they will "cutback" it will first and foremost be with true FMG's; that is non US citizens, not IMGs, US citizens (and FMGs) from no nUS schools. Though people use those terms incorrectly often.
Steph
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 12:12 PM from IP address 162.129.128.111
After re-reading your post I see that it was not something you said. I need to get used to the sideways carat < in place of quotation marks. WE TAKE YOU TOO SERIOUSLY!!!!
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 3:27 PM from IP address 161.223.167.84
I think what you may be wondering is what the state of Texas requires for FMG's.
It isn't SGU (or any school for that matter) that has requirements for licensure.
I know this doesn't answer your question, but I did see in the matches from 2000 that there is a resident from SGU at UTMB (Galveston) in internal medicine.
I'm sure Steph or AMLWAT or whoever else could give you a better answer.
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 12:41 AM from IP address 128.172.61.100
I live in Texas. You can get a liscense to practice medicine here after graduating from a foreign school. We have many fmg's practicing in my hometown. From what I understand it is hard to get a Texas license for anybody not just fmg's. Check with WDC on the AUC board he is doing a fellowship at Baylor.
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 7:38 AM from IP address 207.19.0.217
the main reason you dont see that many people is that there is redundancy; that is a good number of people going to the same hospital but the hosptial is only listed once. The other reason is deceleration; that is many people decel out of their class into a slower track. Obviously peo0ple decel into the class too. Finally there is a percentage of 7-10% who transfer adn another percentage who drop out (I dont have that figure and Id be making it up if I gave it to you). I can tell you in my class 215 came in and between 5-10 left. Oh there are also those who fail out. But most who "leave" a class are decels.
Steph
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 1:40 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
In the Jan 2001 class they had 78 people decel by midterms. That is so many people. The next class that comes this fall is going to be huge with all the decels and new students. I am sure that they won't cut down on the number of people accepted this fall. $$$$$$$
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 7:25 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
The 78 students who deceled from the Jan 01 class....
Is that the normal amount? If you decel, do you
just spend an extra term or so in Grenada?
If accepted into the AEP program, do you start out
with the rest of the class with the same amount of classes, or do you start from the beginning with a reduced class load?
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 8:34 PM from IP address 152.163.213.64
Yes it is a normal amount
Yes you do have to stay an extra term on Grenada
as you would going
Directly in the AEP
Sounds BAD....
It is not when you consider the alternative
People who decel are usually people who have not adjusted to the lifestyle in grenada and the pace of school......
The alternative is they fail or drop out
not because they are stupid or because they are not putting the effort forth, but because they were not able to make a huge transition in there life fast enough......
so the decel program works...and works very well
How can I say that........Personal experience, My best friend in MED school, My girlfriend, Her roommates, and just about 2/3 of the people I hung out with in Medschool Decelled.........
and spent the extra semester on SGU(btw, as i understand it since you are paying per unit it does not increase your tuition just spreads it out over a longer term)
Where are they now...
Well, My Ex, Her roommates, and my best friend in med school are all completing there third year in Brooklyn
they all passed the boards and they all did very well
ask them if decelling was a good idea
they say it was the best thing they did at Med school
So after seeing the success of the program First hand
I really believe in it
john
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 8:58 AM from IP address 209.108.11.67
I was also under that people in the AEP program have some required academic support program schedules. They may be assigned to a set number of DES tutorial sessions and study tactics/skills classes(which a fairly large contingent of students attend anyway-and the DES's are definetly attended anyway by pretty much everyone).(hi Steph.... haven't spoke in a while... you're still ticking eh?) how's the residency settling in with you?..... or is it vice versa?
Geoff
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 12:55 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
kicking too. Just finished another set of unifieds...and now starting the crunch for finals. yeehawr. I'm taking a good day off on the Easter Friday and going on a boat snorkling trip for the day. Pretty good deal with nine other friends... food and bevies included...so looking forward to that. He's a question for you...... what's the rainy season like down here? so far it's been hot and windy for the first three months(hope it never leaves really!!)
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 11:52 AM from IP address 200.50.72.252
I was talking to my friends at AUC...well, they are planning to transfer to Ross. Anyhows, that's not the point. The point is that they found out that AUC has like 13 residency slots in US, for 13 students....and if anyone does the calculations, you know there's a damn long waiting list.
So, my question is, what's the situation like at SGU? I mean, do we just put out applications at all participating hospitals? or do we send applications to those hospitals that accept FMGs?
Can anyone explain to me how this works (details would be greatly appreciated).
Thanks.
Me
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 7:19 PM from IP address 63.210.127.117
I think you are confused. Do you mean that AUC has "13" clinical rotations in the US? I know for A FACT that MORE THAN 13 AUC students got residency spots! You must be referring to clinical sites. In that case, I have no idea what the deal is with AUC or ROSS. I know that ROSS has had a past history of placing quite a few students into clinical spots in the US, but there may be "tricks" involved. For example, a rotating site may not be approved by the ACGME(sp?) or may be in an undesirable area. SGU doesn't not have that many problems with that. Those that are fortunate to get US rotations do them, but many folks are happy and OVERLY satisfied with their English or Irish rotations. AUC in notorious for sending its student to England and Ireland, but in some cases this can be beneficial. Many folks that post on this board have done significant rotations there and they have found themselves in high places in the end come residency time. (e.g. Steph, John) If you want to know about SGU's residency success...I can tell you that the graduates do very well for themselves. Since I'm not a current graduate or student of SGU's, I think it would be appropriate for me to let someone who's been there to explain the success of the school and its students come residency time.
Good luck mon
JM
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 8:54 PM from IP address 206.100.37.62
I think binnie means clinical rotations. A common confusion for premeds.
Acutally AUC has indeed had problems placing folks in the US for clinicals hence the mass exodus we hear about to ross and St. Eustatius. I generally dont comment on other schools but this has been known to be a consistent probelsm. I can't verify the number "13" or any other, but it is an issue.
YOu can do all you rotations in the US. However
1) i highly reccomend going to the most excellent training region of the US for a while and
2) practically, you can get through in a more timely manner if you speand 6-12 w in the UK since some rotatoins like psych and obs gyne have less avail slots; thus while you will get them in the us, you are more assured for not having long breaks off or filling in with electives if you go abroad. The school tends to put that 12 weeks is "required" in the UK. I assure you (as will Bob Jordan of admissions and Anatomy)it is not nor has it ever been.
Steph
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 5:24 AM from IP address 162.129.131.43
So you're saying that if you do 3 months in the UK and the rest in the US than you should be fine?
Also, I have heard (don't know if this is a rumor) but that in 3 years they are going to cut down on the FMGs coming back to the US for residencies. Is this true? Can they do this? It would reall suck to graduate SGU and have $150,000 in debt and a degree that isn't worth the paper its printed on!! Should I worry about this?
I heard that there are 16,000 US med school grads and 21,000 residency spots. If they stop taking the FMGs, how will they ever fill there residency spots? They would be short staffed everywhere!?!
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 10:09 AM from IP address 170.140.78.144
I loved the uK and went back a second time. You will do absolutely fine but dont hae to go to the UK if you dont want.
>>Also, I have heard (don't know if this is a rumor) but that in 3 years they are going to cut down on the FMGs coming back to the US for residencies.
Rumor. They tried in 1996, massively failed. See my web site with 1999 NY times article on how they had to REEXPAND Sites because there werent enough residents. Things can ALWAYS change but this has beenbeen going on since the 1970. MOre soon
Steph
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 10:35 AM from IP address 162.129.128.157
is it hard to get 4rth year electives in states other than NY and NJ (states that traditionally to not participate in the 3rd year rotations of SGU students)??
For example, suppose I wanted to do 4rth year electives in IM or anesthesiology at LSU, Tulane, and Ochsner..
would this be possible? IIf so, how does one go about setting up these rotations?
thanks
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 1:57 AM from IP address 128.172.61.100
for elective3s out of the sgu system you may do up to 12 weeks. its not hard but some hospitals wont let IMGs do this (but wil take them as residents, go figure). In any event, BE WARE that some states wont accept for you residency unless ALL rotations are at your school (ie sgu) affilates. The jury is out on whether or not this is true in pennsylvania for instance. Just look into it before you do anytbhing
stpeh
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 10:33 AM from IP address 162.129.128.157
for me the alternative was not going. I hate the heat!. My pal did live with a fan however. I got away with that during the "Dry" season. Consider fan for jan-may, AC for aug-dec.
Steph
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 10:31 AM from IP address 162.129.128.157
see white squall (filmed while I was there)
Honoroable mention of Gda in Die hard 2.
Also see my web page for a great "Fraiser" exchange on the matter http://travel.to/sgusom
Posted on Apr 11, 2001, 5:19 AM from IP address 162.129.131.43
During your 3rd and 4rth years, you have to do clinical rotations. It says on SGU website that you can do these in the UK, USA or Grenada. What are your chances of getting all your rotations in the US for 3rd and 4rth year. Is there competition? Is it very hard? How are the experiences in the UK and Grenada. I hear that the rotations in the US are in NY and NJ. This would be ideal for me because I am from NY.
Thanks for the information!
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 9:03 PM from IP address 170.140.78.144
hi all, i have a quick question... i have a 3.29 gpa and a 30 on my MCATS..i was wondering, what are the chances of me getting into sgu, i am interested in applying for the august term of 2001..thanks....
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 11:46 AM from IP address 165.230.4.121
Hi. You are competitive for US schools with those stats and you should definitely apply stateside and exhaust those options before considering offshore schools. I believe the stats for SGU are around 3.4 and 28 MCAT so I would think you would be very competitive for SGU.
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 11:55 AM from IP address 161.223.167.84
I had a 2.6 undergrad, 3.43 graduate (doctor of chiropractic) and a 30 MCAT and was accepted for fall. I also was accepted in the states so you might try that route also. I personally think SGU would be a very good route to take if you don't get into a US allopathic program, good luck.
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 1:26 PM from IP address 207.19.0.88
I am not going offshore. I have continued on this forum becuase there is simply no where else on the web were I can get the intelligent and informed answers that I get from people like Steph, JM, John(AMLWAT), Bill Clark, George Durst, Dr. Tim, and others. I continue to post whenever I feel I have something to offer. I may be a bit of an interloper here, but that is not my intention. I am well aware of the sacrifices that I would have had to make to do what the fine people studying at SGU are doing and I have great respect for all of them. The internet is a funny thing and I feel a little weird saying this but the primary reason I continue on this board is I like the people here.
Victor
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 4:08 PM from IP address 204.254.145.166
these were exactly my stats, 3.3 and 30, when i applied 2yrs ago. i too applied for aug, but they bumped me into the jan class, supposedly because the class was full. but if i were you, i'd try to apply to us schools; you may have a chance, if you apply early (as early as possible)
good luck
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 10:11 PM from IP address 38.26.44.169
Hello
I just found this board and I had a question.
I had an interview last Wednesday and was wondering what my chances for admission was.
I go to Emory Univesity. Science GPA: 3.30 Overral GPA:3.50 MCATS #1: Bio: 7 Verbal: 7 Physical: 8
MCATS #2: Bio:10 Verbal: 5 Physical: 7
If you take the highest from both sets of tests, I got a 25. So what are my chances? How long do I have to wait for a decision?
Thanks so much!
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 4:45 PM from IP address 170.140.78.144
I was wondering about other countries that SGU grads are eligible to do residence and/or work as a physician. ex. UK, AUZ, other EU countries.
Thanks
H.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 5:31 PM from IP address 208.235.91.20
to practice in the uk you need to pass their licensing exams ,used to be called PLAB exam, VERY tough. I believe once you qualify in a EU country then you can practice in any of them, that's the point of united europe.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 7:54 PM from IP address 204.143.183.158
oyou can take the Uk boards which are far toucher than the US ones. I dont now if you can cross boarders in the EU if you aren't an EU resident or even if you are. Call for Bob ryan @ sgu 1-800-899-6337.
All the best,
steph
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 7:58 AM from IP address 162.129.136.163
I'm unclear as to whether you'd like to know where can graduates practice in general...or where do they qualify to practice. The SGU curriculum and systems set up primarily for the US (and UK)..... but i think graduates practice in around thirty or forty different countries...you just have to study and pass their specific requirements. The degree itself...with the appropriate licensing exams I think is pretty much valid world wide... but I'd use stephs contact number for the specifics. Lot's of students come here from other countries with their own goverments support/loans and contracts then to practice back their for a set number of years etc. I know of Botswanians and St. Vincients doing that.
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 2:53 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
I'm unclear as to whether you'd like to know where can graduates practice in general...or where do they qualify to practice. The SGU curriculum and systems set up primarily for the US (and UK)..... but i think graduates practice in around thirty or forty different countries...you just have to study and pass their specific requirements. The degree itself...with the appropriate licensing exams I think is pretty much valid world wide... but I'd use stephs contact number for the specifics. Lot's of students come here from other countries with their own goverments support/loans and contracts then to practice back their for a set number of years etc. I know of Botswanians and St. Vincients doing that.
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 2:54 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
Does anyone know of anyone going to Europe to practice medicine, since the clinical rotations are offered in UK I thought that there might be someone from US that went to SGU and then to EU to work.
H.
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 9:40 PM from IP address 208.235.91.24
I am considering visiting Grenada before I enroll.
Some of the hotels I am considering are:
Wavecrest, Grandview, Siesta, Cinnamon Hill
and Palm Court.
They are approx the same price. Is one recommended
in terms of safety and location to campus?
Thank you for your response.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 10:54 PM from IP address 205.188.197.39
Grand View: Great memories from that place. Great views, but quite a walk up the hill whe it's hot... Cheap, occasionally with water problems, if they have not fixed them yet.
Siesta: Convenient, I find it unexciting, pricey for what it offers.
Cinammon Hill: probably the best pick.
Wavecrest: No!! Spend a little more on one of the others.
palm Court: No.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 8:37 AM from IP address 204.143.183.158
Iam a female and want to make sure I am in
a safe hotel. Of course I prefer a reasonable
price, but safety is most important.
I very much appreciate your advice.
Thanks....
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 10:28 AM from IP address 152.163.201.188
Hey medic, did you live at grandview while you were at sgu? My wife and I are planning on living there this fall. What do you think about grandview for long term housing? Please e-mail me if you get a chance.
Taylor
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 8:35 PM from IP address 65.5.45.135
It's a hill, but add HEAT and if you have to do it 2-3 times a day, ocasionally with shopping....well...problem...
I lived there for 1 semester, loved it, i stayed at the wooden rooms, room 10 being the one with the best view. No AC back then. They used to cost $525/mo i believe. I had a car! Their water truck can be pretty annoying at times, especially if you live in room 3 or 4.
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 8:05 PM from IP address 204.143.183.158
ummm...hey guys, if you ever wanted to feel like we got one hell of a quality education at a world class campus, visit the website for st. james med school..whoa
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 7:32 PM from IP address 205.188.199.37
well for some no. Bt the truth is its diffiuclt to practice both full time. IF you want an "overall" type practic, I think that's best family practice. Why add an exstra year if youre going to focus on one or another. This has been brought before and I always invte people in the field to enlighten me if Im missing something. As yet no one has but again, please if someone can tell me Im missing something, Id welcome the input.S
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 10:21 AM from IP address 162.129.128.119
Do you ever feel like our den mother? Here are my two interest in medicine. One as you know is nurosurgery. The other is establishing a clinic in an underservered area and practicing general medicine. My maternal grandfather was a GP in the 30's-60's. He did everything from deliveries to colds to amputations to appendectomies. That type of practice has a very strong appeal, do you think there is anyplace you could do it and if so what would be the training to undertake.
Thanks Steph,
Victor
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 11:13 AM from IP address 204.254.145.166
I think the GP vs neurosurg thing will sort itself out because they are two very different fields. People go into medicine with a gestalt but practice will tell you the reality. Such as surgery requires standing for hours, FP requires broadbase knowledge, often without any experise in one field. Surgery requires technical skills, fp requires problem solving. etc. Some people dont like one population over another. Some want a broad base knowledge, some want to be experts. So youll see what I mean.
Sure you can proactice FP and the sort that you describe will be best found in rural areas.
The training will likely be family practice. Alternately, you could do med/peds. But then you wont be doing too many amputations. as it is its unlikely the practice will be quite as romantacized has it has been in the past inthis day and age. I doubt youll be doing too many amputations, and less, though perhaps a few deliveries.
I reccomend doing rotations in these in med school; im sure if you ask for a rural medicine rotation they will bemore than happy to accomodate you.
Steph
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 12:36 PM from IP address 162.129.128.111
Having a practice like you described is very very difficult to do in the United States.....
and that is a good thing
Because it shows the progress of the nation as a whole
in meeting the demand for physicians and specialists in rural areas
and the advances in communication, technology, and transportation.........
However, This has not translated throughout the world
There are place in the world where as a doctor, you could do just about everything....
On of Gen Surg attendings I knew would travel to africa on a yearly basis and spend one year there at one point..........
He said that in Africa, he did everything from appendectomies to Delivering babies and C-sections to treating earaches to sorethroats
It is something that has interested me quite a bit....
actually, one of the reasons I considered G surg
(i am much better now , thank you) was the fact that I did want to go abroad and I wanted to do a specialty that afforded me the most freedom.......
Just a thought.......
john
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 1:29 PM from IP address 209.108.11.67
I appreciate your two cents. I am very early in this process (I start school in the fall) but I am trying to sort this out becuase of my interest in neurosurgery. From what I have read it is best to start down that path very early. Part of my concern over pursueing surgery is my wife. While she is very supportive I want her to be happy and have a good life too. If I work 70+ hours a week doing what I want I haven't really sacrificed anything. But for her that may be a big sacrifice. (I realize that many people here may see that more as a blessing for her, but for some reason she likes me) Anyway I do appreaciate your imput and any insight you have on surgical specialties in general will be read with much interest.
Victor
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 3:12 PM from IP address 204.254.144.19
just to remind you, if you work 70+ hours a week (for most of the rest of your career and certainly residency) doing what you really want you haven't really sacrificed anything IF the only thing important to you is medicine, or rather, surgery. You have a wife so obviously your family is as important to you as medicine (thats how I feel, anyway) so if you were working 70+ hours a week you would be sacrificing family for career. You can't help it. Most people have enough trouble devoting proper time to family working 40-50 hours a week. You will miss a lot of things working that much. Just be aware of it.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 4:03 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
Keep all your options open and don't worry.............
by always make love with a trojan (no login)
Yes you are very early in the process...
and it is difficult to make that of sort sacrifice
but don't worry about that yet
you have not sat for your first day of class yet
How much do you really know what you want to do
My advice if you are interested in something like Neurosurg and like the neurosciences in General
..........start now
You don't have to make another life altering decision just yet........
For something as competitive as Neuro you have to anticipate
Do research
get a hold of a neurosurgeon and observe them in the OR
get involved.....
If it is what you want to do than you are a step ahead of most and if it is not it still looks great on the CV
2 big mistakes I made in the whole selection process
1> deciding on orthopedics 11 months ago which is very late....I did not have research in ORtho.....I did not know any body in Ortho.....It kind of put me in a bad position and I felt like iwas always catching up
2> I realized this mistake after being a part of this forum......I turned my application in on october 23
and that is very very late
the first one applies more to you
it is too early in the decision making process for you to start closing doors to particular paths.....If you are interested in something pursue it...It can only help....if not specifically for getting neuro(b/c you have decided to do sometingh else) than for other paths that you may be interested in
john
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 4:50 PM from IP address 63.204.132.195
I work what is supposed to be a "dream" residency. Its an outpatient service. In short, I also work in a field where only 60% pass the written boards, of those 50% the oral boards. Its hardly a good dream and I miss my husband with all the work I do, both late at hosptial and in the evenings reading. Im lucky in that he is fully understanding and supportive.
There is no way around the time committment in being a doctor and its hard. You will have to ask that question of yourself many times. You do have some time and John is rightl in the interm prepare for the most rigerous thing and anything else is bonus. You may find your choice made if one thing appeals (as i meentioned earlier) above all in reality.
Neurosurgry is a difficult feild to stay sane in let alone you and another. It can be done if you are both committed to it. but let things unfold and do your best in the interm.
All the best,
Steph
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 6:05 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
I am trying to keep an open mind with regards to specialty, but I want to be sure and do everything right. I am 38 and going to med school is a big time second chance for me. I always wanted to be a doctor but when I was young I lacked focus and discipline. Now with this great opurtunity I want to make the most of it.
Victor
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 11:41 AM from IP address 207.16.165.201
Sounds like what you are describing is a doctor who does some surgery, can handle a wide variety of patients, and is qualified to go and run or work in a rural areea and be self-sufficient.
Sounds to me like you are describing an Emergency Medicine Physician !
And if it's a flexibe life-style you want : It can't be beaten.
You could get hooked up with some of the many organizations that serve the poor, or go to foreign countries, and still keep your " day Job"
ER sounds like the perfect job for you..
Bill C
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 6:12 PM from IP address 170.57.49.9
Well, sounds like Vic is decribing what can be an ER doc, but many other fields. Family practice fits that bill too. Its worthwhile to consider all this. But while flexibility is a key in ER, so is burnout among many.
But I think Bill is right that you might consider it. ER was never ever for me so I'm hardly the person to talk about it.
Steph
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 8:10 AM from IP address 162.129.136.163
does the USMLe pass rates quoted incude the tota number who began, or the total number who took the exam?
If 200 started, but 50 quit, transferred, flunked out OR were hed back, and of the remaining 150, 140 passed the USMLE then this ooks great. 140/150 passed, but it's realy 150/200.
How do most schools do this computation.
The total number of starters ort the tota number of finishers?
Just curious. I figure somebody knows the answer
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 7:22 PM from IP address 170.57.49.9
pass rate is # of students who attemp the test divided by the # of students that pass. It does not include students that do not take sit the exam since it's hard to fail a test you never take.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 8:03 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
first of all, these are important questions as are what follows.
ALL schools quote the pass rate of those who took the exam. If half the class fails out, they aren't counted. At sgu the past 5 years or more, 90% of the class sites the baords with their class. This means if you come in with 99 other poeple, youll all be taking the exam with 89 of them.
BE WARE of people hwo give pass rates of 95% but dont tell you half the class fails out etc or gets left behind.
this is a classic ploy (used by us schools too because most dont know to ask). FYI in the US, the number I quoted above (ie how many make it to the boards WITH their class) ranged from about 90-100% with a rare couple outlyers below that figure.
Also beware places that skew their residency matches and list the places people match in community affiliates as their "host" uni hospital. The most excellent Nowalk hosptial is a community hospital but affilated with Yale. Its not "Yale". Excellent nonetheless but that is dishonest if you dont put a fine point on it.
steph
Posted on Apr 10, 2001, 7:57 AM from IP address 162.129.136.163
I have a 2.8 Gpa\
am giving my MCATS this Aughust.,..but can i still apply for the september session even though I wont have my scores til october?> Will tehy put me on hold till then or something?
I have a lot of volunteer work and shwoing experience both in the Us and in third world countries?Do i stand a realistic chance of getting into SGU?
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 3:06 PM from IP address 128.206.103.225
I'd say your chances are fair. The GPA is not the best, but people have been accepted with lower. Plus, if you do well on your MCAT, that'll help boost your chances significantly. The extra-curricular/real-world life stuff is also a plus. Apply and best of luck!
P.S. You can submit an application, but it won't be reviewed until the MCAT scores are in.
Jamaican
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 3:30 PM from IP address 208.142.225.28
Thanks for the input though I have another question for you. what if I were to get accepted at AUC cause thats the other school that I am applying to ..now do you thyink shoukld start at AUC in september 2001? Cause I dont want to be doing nothing. I want to go to SGU for sure as my first choice in the carribeans. Now can I leave AUC at the end of the semester if I get admitted to SGU?..meaning will SGU accept my first semester credits from AUC?
thanks
sam
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 6:02 PM from IP address 128.206.56.181
I'm not too sure how to answer your next question. I'd recommend that someone else (Steph, AMLWAT, VIC, etc.) help you because I'm NOT 100% sure how it works. I have an idea, but I don't want to give you incorrect information. Plus, calling the school and asking them personally is your best and safest bet. My personal advice to you is..if you want SGU, wait it out, apply, and see what happens. SGU has 2 entering classes per year while AUC has 3. Apply to both schools...that way if SGU says NO then AUC may say yes and you'll still be going to a school. This will also help avoid confusion. Don't try to get in somewhere so fast that you make a poor decision and hope to transfer out later. Explore your options. This is a huge decision and you shouldn't be rushing to go to AUC and then hope to magically go to SGU. SGU will not take transfers with advanced standing. There may be exceptions..like if you were conditionally accepted before or know people, but still don't count on it. I'd try to get into SGU 1st like you said. It's tops in the caribbean. AUC is a fine school too. I think you'll get into AUC assuming you withhold that 13 MCAT (I got this number off another one of your posts). That won't look good anywhere. If you want to go to SGU, raise that MCAT AT LEAST 10 or 11 points and you'll get a look. Realistically, it looks like AUC is gonna be your school unless you increase that MCAT score. Don't give up..Don't ever give up!
Jamaican
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 6:35 PM from IP address 206.100.37.42
i am from canada. applied to st georges. said i was to come for an interview at coney island hospital in new york. so i went. sat in a room in the hospital. a female surgeon showed me pictures of the campus and then told me not to walk on the boardwalk by myself on coney island as the last person she interviewed got mugged.the ''interview''lasted 10 minutes and i was on my way back to the hotel wondering why i spent 700.00 on air fare to get here on short notice as the interview time was forwared to me on short notice. i got accepted into the school but the cost would have been too much and getting back into canada would have been impossible even if you were healing like jesus christ because political medicine like to keep their practitioner numbers in demand and keep their fees high.not that there is anything wrong with being paid properly. so if you don't have rich parents to pay off your loans ya better marry an american because managed care is going to tell you how to practice and this will affect your income. it will take you forever to pay the loan off and your friend selling suits since he was 19 years old will be miles ahead of ya. if you are rich--get out of the program an be a massage therapist in the caymen islands.why kill yourself?
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 7:33 PM from IP address 205.188.192.38
back in 1988 i went and talked with the dean of my local medical school and asked him about st georges and foreign med schools. he said to me ''what kind of school would advertise for students in the local city newspaper''. at the time st georges ran an ad for prospective students in my city. i felt this was a rather negative attitude so i did some research on the school and discovered it is the top foreign medical school rated.so the school is excellent(1988)and i'm sure it still is(do some up to date investigation)but the problem is when you graduate where do you practice as a canadian?THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY RESIDENCY POSITIONS AVAILABLE EVEN TO NORTH AMERICAN TRAINED PHYSICIANS SO THE FOREIGN GRADS ARE THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. talk to any M.D either at your local med school or phone one. a friend of our family who is a distinguished researcher and M.D went there to teach for a month and told me its a good school but the canadians have no hope to get back in to canada.so my suggestion to you is to phone the licensing board of physicians in your area and ask about this. i personally think foreign M.D's are discriminated against big time but that's just life sometimes and not just in health care. everyone wants to protect their turf by creating standards and procedures that make it difficult for others who have not ''gone through the system''(got into north american school)
i would not advise you to go into tremendous debt without making sure you have the ability to pay it back in a reasonable time frame. at some point in your life you deserve to make an income.in 1988 it was going to cost me 20000.00 u.s (living expenses included).some students do transfer to u.s schools but i do not know how and if canadians would qualify.then you wuold be more competitve for a residency position.
talk to a canadian medical license board.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 9:58 PM from IP address 205.188.200.174
There are about 7-8000 more US residency positions than there are US grads to fill them every year. Canada is having a problem keeping its own graduates praticing because of socialized medicine. Many canadian medical school graudates end up practicing in the US anyway. If you really want to be a doctor, find out what it would take to live in the US and go to ST Georges. I have a friend who is a canadian practing as a chiropractor here in the states and is doing great.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 10:48 AM from IP address 204.254.145.132
right, from all my research i've realized that coming back to canada to practive after studying in a foreign medical school is next to impossible...like you said, the government and the canadian medical assocation are attempting to increase the salaries all the time by increasing demand and that will continue to occur until the end of time (unless we have a communist revoluation or something)....So now if i attend SGU my full attention would be towards getting a residency in the States....now how hard could that be? where are you practicing right now? and if you dont get into the states is it hard to get into britain? that would be my second option...and you talk about having a huge debt...with the income of physicians it may take a while to pay off your debt but its only a matter of time.....so if I forget about going back to canada and look at obtaining residency in the states (even family practice) i could eventually pay off my debt after time...is this logical thinking???
could you please expand on your own scenario and what happened post-SGU
i've been scanning this message board waiting for a Canadian to tell me some TRUTH!!!
thanks
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 7:59 AM from IP address 24.108.188.10
Hi,
Just wondering if you have alreadly applied to St. George's or still contemplating that decision.
I am a fellow Canadian...very much in the same boat but want to hear about residency success stories of canadians practicing in the States.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 2:49 PM from IP address 198.168.182.237
yah well i'm actually in my third year at the U of A...but i'm looking at all my options...so to answer your question..no i havent applied yet....basically i'm looking down the line (few months from now) when i'll be applying to canadian medical schools...but i really dont know how competitive i'll be so i'm keeping my options open....for me SGU seems like a good alternative but from what i've heard it is very hard being an IMG and applying for a residency in the states...i'm even looking at medical schools in australia and britain...but i want to seriously find out what is the best option for a canadian who gets rejected from canadian medical school
sorry for rambling
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 4:00 PM from IP address 24.108.188.10
i do not know how difficult it is for a canadian to obtain residency in the USA. it does seem to happen if you have graduated from a north american med school.but the problem is getting in and thats why people go to the off shore schools because they are fixated on wanting to be a medical doctor.as for britian or ireland you need to write or phone their med schools admission department and ask about forgein students(i think they increase the tuition). as for myself back in 1988 i did this and the bottom line is that the cost would be too much. you would be over 100,000 in debt and the residency thing is unknown.if you want to start a practice from scratch you will be in more debt again.you still pay taxes on your income and you can only write off the interest on the student loan.if you come from a wealthy family and the debt is no big deal and you can't get into your local geographic med school(and you cannot do anything else but be a medical dr)--kiss north american soil good by and persue this identity.for myself, i applied to my local med school for two years and made it to the final stage each time but did not get chosen.at this stage every applicant is qualified to complete the program if they want to.when you are not chosen its disappointing but life goes on and there are other rewarding careers in healthcare helping people and earning an income thats reflects your education and responsibilities.eg optometrist,dentist,osteopth(USA),chiropractor,pharmacist,psychologist.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 4:36 PM from IP address 152.163.195.196
You seem so pessimistic about the whole medical school process...I understand your frustration. By the way, what are you doing now? I'm assuming you chose not to go the medical school.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 10:17 AM from IP address 198.168.184.54
i realize that the debt potential is there but once you become an MD and start working in the states you will be able to pay it off over the 20 some years most loan institutions give you....i know its a huge number but over time it can be paid off....look at even american students who take huge ass loans to come to st. george....they are in the same predicament as canadians except they will easily get residency...all i canadian has to do is go to SGU and work his/her ass off and then get residency in the states....even as a family praticitoner you make solid money....so like i said it really just a matter of time...its not like you will be able to pay back 150 K loans in your first year...you have to be realistic
thats the way i see the situation for us canadians
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 11:32 AM from IP address 24.108.188.10
As a Canadian who is graduating from SGU in one month let me give you the scoop. I graduated from the University of Victoria, went to SGU and have matched in a surgical residency in the U.S.. No problem except one little thing which is called a VISA. Yes even Canadians need one and they are not easy to get. The options are
J-1: you need a ltter from the Canadian Government that states that you will gpo back to Canada after you finish residency. To get the letter you have to fulfill a long list of requirements which are in constant flux and are difficult to do. Many competitive residency programs shy away from anybody who needs one.
H-1B: a hospital has to sponsor you for this one, it is expensive and you have to have graduated from medical school and have passed step 3 to apply for one. You will ave to take off a year after graduation to work this one out. Many hospitals won't sponsor you
Green Card: if you can find a willing partner then getting hitched a a good option.
Canadians DO qualify for Canadian Student loans but they don't go far...5000 CDN a year
Canadians DON'T qualify for any loan programs through SGU
Can you go back to Canada to practice......yes, but as with everything in this process it isn't easy
So if you want to be a doctor, have some financial resources, work hard, love frustration, aren't anxious to return to Canada then St. George's might be right for you! It certainly was for me!
I'd be pleased to answer any questions anyone might have
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 4:02 PM from IP address 198.211.16.129
So refreshing to hear from a Canadian who is actually at SGU.
Congratulations on your match!
Pardon my ignorance about the visa issue but what kind of visa did you get? If you are starting your residency this year that means you didn't have to take the year off. How did you manage that?
I have applied to SGU for Aug 2001. I had my interview in March and I am still waiting to hear. The truth is I haven't made the decision in my own mind. I don't know if I am entirely ready to leave Canada for good.
Thanks and Congrats
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 4:39 PM from IP address 198.168.182.83
from what i've read the H1B visa is pretty much the only real viable option for Canadian grads attempting to obtain residency...but from what i've heard, the only hospitals that accept H1B visas are REAL BAD...is there any truth to that?
for example, do you know of any university affilitaed hospitals that will accept H1B visa applicants?
i'm really concerned because having a GOOD residency location is very important for your future
thanks for your help K
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 5:14 PM from IP address 24.108.188.10
H1B is pretty good but you do have to take a year off......Uviversity programs do sometimes sponsor people but I would agree that programs that are more desperate ie. inner city hospitals will be more likely to. That said I know many Hospitals that still will not since they have so many applications from IMG's that don't have visa issues and are simply warm bodies to fill up positions.
As for finances if you are a US citizen or have a US citizen sponsor then you qualify for various loan programs, otherwise you will need to raise the finances yourself. Remember SGU is a business, though one that is ppretty committed to education.
K
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 4:55 PM from IP address 198.211.17.131
Got hitched.......lucky me
Most of my fellow Canadians are taking a year off, even if you can get a J-1 visa it is pretty undesirable since it requires that you leave the US for at least two years after you finish your residency with few exceptions.
K
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 4:58 PM from IP address 198.211.17.131
Does anyone know if the 'esaay' SGU asks you to complete is completey arbitrary or if they always ask the same 3 questions. If so what are the questions, I only say three because someone mentioned that number. ANy help is greatly appreciated..Jeff
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 10:28 AM from IP address 129.49.77.239
Call the school and they will tell you the questions. My interview was very low key and pleasant. I would tell you the question here but I don't remember all three.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 11:18 AM from IP address 204.254.145.166
Had the interview at the end of March..don't know if the questions are the same but this is what I got:
1) Talk about a defining experience in your adult life
2) Discuss three characteristics that you possess that will make you a good physician
3)I can't remember the last one.
Hope that helps and good luck!
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 11:44 AM from IP address 132.206.196.34
I don't think there's a set interview....there can't be,... the interviewers are often practicing physicians in completely different parts of the country. They do have a form/checklist that they fill out at one point I believe. I went to two interviews and the best piece of advice I would have is to go through your personal history,...and figure out why you did the things you did to get to where you are today... list your volunteer work, academic history, employment and interests etc. And other than that,... enjoy it... find out about their history and ask a couple things about medicine that you're interested in that coincide with their work.
Geoff
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 1:04 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
I spoke to the chief of orthopedic surgery
at one of the places I interviewed
as to why this was the case...
he actually gave me what I though was a very reasonable answer but seemed to be more for finding another hurdle for FMG's...........
First, a lot of the Foreign Medical Schools have
become......like scoring mills, people doing extremely
well on step one from a foreign Medical school has become very very common place......
One of the places I interviewed the three highest scores on step one were from Foreign students
so they think that these schools are geared to doing well on step 1, which is true
therefore, your step one score loses luster....
Second, there is some question as to the clinical experience of a offshore medical school because they do not go to traditional university based teaching hospitals.....
Since the step two exam is 'supposedly' a better measure of clinical experience...step 2 scores are becoming as important as step 1.........
john
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 9:21 AM from IP address 152.163.204.187
John, would it be possible if you could dropm me an email me too. I asked you for your email a few days ago, and I dont know what you meant with your response.
I'd appreciate it if I could get in touch with you via email.
Samer
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 1:25 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
J-
If you are going to be an orthopedic surgeon, you have to learn to get your point across in very few words. Their notes in my hospital: "s/p ORIF L femur, doing well, will follow". That's it!
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 10:42 AM from IP address 205.188.198.152
Hey, I have a question for anybody... Is inorganic chemistry a requirement for SGU? I had no idea! I am a junior at the University of Pittsburgh and I would hate to have to take that my senior year. Please, help me! Any info greatly appreciated!
-Maggi
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 10:26 AM from IP address 64.12.101.167
inorganic is basically a requirement for all medical schools that i can think of...if you want to go into medicine you should be taking the core: inorganic, organic, bio, english and after that there is some variability
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 11:28 AM from IP address 24.108.188.10
you must have inorganic (one year) organic (one year) physics (one year) bio(one year) and prefereably calc but i dont belive its required (double check)
steph
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 11:38 AM from IP address 24.180.143.13
I know there are several in-state schools who will let you substitute computer science for Calc or Stats. I had all three, but I think Stats will be the most useful in the long run...
-A
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 9:07 AM from IP address 156.26.73.197
Inorganic is required by every medical school. Plus, you'll need that knowledge for the MCAT, which SGU requires. You're gonna need Inorganic no matter what. Plus, inorganic is a pre-req to Organic, which you need too. I suggest taking it starting this summer since you're behind and about to graduate soon.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 12:52 PM from IP address 206.100.37.103
All the prereqs are easy to find for any school. If you have not had inorganic, how did you take organic? (one is a prerequisite for the other). So you may need four more semesters not just two.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 9:01 PM from IP address 63.26.171.201
A fertility specialist is a OB/GYN that has done a
3-4 year fellowship in reproductive endocrinology and infertility........
It is one of those few really cool specialties that gives you the best of both worlds....
A great lifestyle, great compensation
Very, very intellectual
plus, you can, also, do meat and potato Ob/gyn stuff
I loved the week I was part of this
by far and away the most intelligent and
Oddly enough, one of the more humble attendings
i have met was a fertility specialist
I really gave it some serious consideration
but realized that I did not want to go through the
four years of OB/GYN to become one
john
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 9:07 PM from IP address 152.163.206.187
According to Dr. Thornton, not as competitive as you would think.....
by amlwat (no login)
I think according to him
there were between 20 and 30 spots in the country
and in the past few years only half of them fill
He thinks it was because that not a lot of people want to go spend an extra three years for the fellowship
If you want to do it, go for it.........
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 8:21 AM from IP address 152.163.204.207
For those who may be confused AMLWAT is short always make love with a trojan........
by Always make love with a trojan (no login)
Dr. Thornton is a REI(Reproductive Endocrinology and
Infertility specialist)
at the hospital where I did OB..........
By far and away, the best teacher in the hospital
I, actually, became very interested in the field
and talked pretty at length with him about it
Last, I heard he was considering leaving to become an
attending at some University hospital in NYC
Dr. Chadwell is an amazing Biochem professor
(i don't know if he is still around)
but biochem Rocked with him
He did have his quirks but if you can make it through his class than you got it made
He was much better than the biochem professor
I had in college
who was nice but scatter brained
If you watched the ER where the episode where one of the Docs said he was from Grenada....
He diagnosed one of the patients with Ackee fruit poisoning.......and that he had seen it before
We were taught that in Biochem.......and were told that there is no Ackee fruit on Grenada
So ackee fruit poisoning is relatively rare in Grenada
I don't know if that part was coincidence or deliberate but the fact the i remembered it is a testament to the Biochem guys........
Very organized and taught very well...most of the time anyways
if any body is taking biochem keep those notes
they are great for reference
john
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 8:46 AM from IP address 209.108.11.67
I had almost the same stats as you and was accepted into Aug/2001 almost immdiately following my interveiw. I applied early in the cycle, last November. I would think you would be competitive into US schools as well - give it a try but seriously consider SGU if US schools do not work out. Love and Peace.
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 2:42 PM from IP address 216.234.218.25
Try US schools first! It's good to think about your options, but I feel you have a good shot at US MD/DO schools. Stay home first before you decide to travel the world. It's in your best interests. SGU mostly likely will accept you as long as you do the right things..good interview, letters of rec, essays, and apply early.
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 2:57 PM from IP address 206.100.37.82
Many people take the opposite position to mine on this but here is my rational. While everyone will tell you DO's and MD's are the same listen to the subtleties. DO's as a group make a loud point of the fact that they are just as good as the MD's. While this may be true, if it where generally percieved that way they would not need to point it out. I am a chiropractor and I have many patients who think that Chiropractors and DO's are the same thing. I have been in more than one DO office that has a plaque explaining what the letters DO mean and how wonderful the DO philosophy is.
I have never run across an MD who felt he needed to explain what his degree meant. I have a friend who is a DO general surgeon, he makes over a million dollars a year. When I asked him weather he thought I should go foreign MD or DO he never could really give me a straight answer. Look in the phone book. MD's and DO's have seperate listings. There are foreign schools that offer DO's advance standing in their MD programs. My cousin is an internist. She told me how many of the DO's in her residency were just as good as the MD's. There is implicit in her remark the expectation of inferiority.
Yes DO's have full liscense to practice all aspects of medicine in all 50 states. And the differences in perception of DO's within the medical community are narrowing, but if you are a DO you are not an MD and you will sometimes face predjudice. As a foreign trained MD you have many hurdles to overcome early on but once you are done you have those two magic letters MD after your name for the rest of your life.
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 4:36 PM from IP address 207.16.165.147
Vic, this is where you and I disagree! DO schools ARE AMERCIAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS! Why go to a foreign land and learn medicine when you can stay at home??? To me, the letters behind my name MAKE NO DIFFERENCE! I DON'T CARE about those mundane details! I want to practice medicine! I want to help my patients! Most people don't know the difference between a DO and a MD amyway! You'd be surprised how many patients see DOs at the medical complex I work in! I get to see the patient's "chart" and the doctors name is usually attached. DOs are very prominant and making a huge impact. It is ridiculous to assume that they are inferior because of two little letters. I think that's an immature view of the overall perspective. As a DO, you'll avoid ALOT of the crap the IMGs have to put up with. Plus, you'll be making a difference in patient's lives, which is the main idea anyway. Besides, as for that OMM stuff, MOST DOs don't even use it! My mom was seeing a DO Nephrologist for the longest time and she didn't even know he was a DO until I told her...10 years later! She said he never did that OMM stuff once! That goes to show how much they use it, huh? I want to stay on the mainland to learn medicine no matter what. People must have a real disregard for the letters behind your name to go DO. I have no preference. I'm gonna be a doctor no matter what! ALL of the DOs I've met have never mentioned ANY type of prejudice! That's absurd! Where I work I see DOs and MDs (I know which is which) interacting, laughing, conversing, and even helping each other out with patients. I'm sure in SOME areas of the country, a bias might exist, but in the area I hope to practice..there is little to no discrimination! About half of the residents in the hospital I work in are DOs! As you can see, I have no problem going DO. In fact, I'd be honored to be accepted to a DO school. I'd much rather stay on the mainland than go offshore. That's my perspective and opinion. Of course, I'll be out numbered here because this is an IMG (MD) forum. So, I expect to be harassed, but I wouldn't feel right by sitting back and taking this nonsense. Again, most people don't care whether you're a DO or MD. Vic, you have a right to your opinion. I don't agree with it as much as you don't agree with mine.
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 5:29 PM from IP address 208.142.225.132
Boy I got you riled up and I really didn't mean to. I want to be clear that I am not saying DO's are inferior at all, the individual is what makes the doctor. What I am saying is there is a percieved difference between DO's and MD's in large segments of the population. There are areas of the country where it does make a significant difference what letters are after your name. My only reason for writing my opinion on the subject is I like to hear myself talk, oh wait no, there is more to it than that. My other reason is that there is a tendency on these forums for people to say go DO over any foreign oportunity and in my opinion that is not the best route in every situation. You and I agree more than you think on this issue. You are absolutely right when you say that the only important thing is being a doctor and having an impact on patients (hopefully a positive impact). And from what I have heard from nurses and others there is no difference for DO's and MD's in an institutional setting. However in private practice there can be prejudice against the DO degree. The philosophical basis of osteopathy, which is strongly protected by at least some of there schools is not in line with the rest of scietific medicine and this can be a liability to DO's in certain leagal procedings. I certainly would not want to offend you or anyone, but I do think it is important that people understand, that there is a percieved difference by at least part of the public on this matter. If you want to be a DO then I think that is great. For me, having worn an alternative mantle for 10 years, I wanted to be in the middle of the main stream. I would chose SGU over DO school.
I respect your point and wish you nothing but success in which ever path you choose.
Victor
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 6:57 PM from IP address 207.19.0.46
Good for you! I hope you made a sound decision after a thorough examination of your options. I wish you the best of luck. We have to live with the choices we make in life..this is one of them.
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 8:40 PM from IP address 208.142.225.41
I would have to say that I agree with the others on this... I mean I have tried to get into D.O. schools and have failed right along with the MD schools. the only thing that has changed is that now, after learning so much about foreign medical schools in the last few months, and asking every doctors, nurses, family member's, and friend's opinion on the D.O. vs. FMG question, I have always gotten an answer that you would be less ridiculed and looked-down upon as a foriegn MD over an in-state DO. I know many DOs that are great physicians, and I realize that in reality there is no difference, but if there is a political or personal difference among your peers in the medical establishment--well then I would take the cons of foreign medical education over life-long ridicule of DOs any day. Physicians have a hard enough life anyway if their purpose is to optimally provide for their fellow man--their patients. Why make it more difficult to serve your patients by having to deal with more politics and bull**** then you have to. We already have medicare and medicaid to deal with, along with HMOs and hospital administrators.
I guess my point is that I don't care what kind of physician I am as long as I am one, but given the choice I would rather run the risk as a foreign medical student over that of in-state DO. I think the others are trying to say that also--that is they are not bashing DOs, but rather giving personal preverance-based on, what I think, are logical reasons. I happen to know several DOs who also got into MD schools, but decided the DO philosophy was more up their alley--the same choice, I think, is being made by the others above.
Which brings me to another point... I may be off my rocker, but everyone seems a little overly-touchy the last couple of weeks. I have re-read a lot of the posts and more often then not people are going over-board with out really reading what the writer is trying to say. You have all done faily well on your verbal reasoning on the MCAT, or at least well above the average person of the public. So lets all agree to try to separate friendly opinion from blatent insult. We should all be more open minded then the average person anyway...afterall we are, or have chosen to go out-of-state for our medical education.
So, everyone Take a deep breath... and remember we are all in this together to help each other. (so ends the daily affermation...).
peace and love to everyone.
-Ayrrom
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 9:24 PM from IP address 65.27.29.242
I apologize for blowing up like I did. I see what you're trying to say and I agree. I understand where your point of view is at this point, thus you perspective is different from mine. I, obviously, have much love for the osteopathic way of life and that's my personal preference. I never meant to try to persuade that applicant to go DO even though it may have come out that way. I just wanted him/her to explore the options out there! They may never know what osteopathy is until they research it! I NEVER in my wildest dreams have ever heard of a DO Neurosurgeon before last year, but I'll tell you what...there are more of them than we think! I've research osteopathy and it looks like a good route for me! Besides, I would much rather live in Kansas City, Demoines, or Chicago and go to medical school instead of a small, Caribbean island. That's my preference. I would say..at this point, I would have to choose DO or IMG(MD). That's as of right now. Things my change, but I doubt it. I'm confident in the osteopathic profession as well as the allopathic one. I think it's in both of our best interests as frequent, knowledgable posters on this board to recommend that the applicant AT LEAST explorer ALL options before making a decision. It's not our place to make the decision for him. We should step back and give the guy room to breathe and let him explore both SGU and Osteopathy. Let's let him decide his own fate. It's pointless to sit here and argue which one is better because there is no right answer! Everybody feels differently about the two and no one is gonna change their views based on what someone else said. I say we call this a dead issue.
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 8:39 PM from IP address 208.142.225.41
Hi JaMon and Everyone,
Idon't wish to enter into any controversy in the discussions concerning MD vs. DO, but I do want to make a few interesting observations as someone who has been in healthcare for 39 years, and seen many, many changes in the professions encompassing "healthcare".
For what they are worth, these observations are regarding the status of DO's who are Medical Officers in the Uniformed Services--Army and U.S Public Health Service--of the United States:
-The last Surgeon General of the United States Army, LTGEN Ronald Blanck (a 3-star General), who retired last summer, is a DO-internist, and now i a VP (or Pres.) of the Texas Hlth. Science Ctr. in the Dallas/ Ft. Worth area. He was a superb Surgeon Genl.
-Admiral ( Dr.) Joyce Johnson, DO, is the Assistant Surgeon General of the U.S Public Health Service, and oversees all medical operations and facilities for the U.S. Coast Guard.
-As early as 1972, when I was on the Staff at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Washington,DC, I remember many DO's who were residents in pediatrics, orthopedics, and IM. I served in Vietnam with a great aviation Medical officer in 71-72, who later came to Walter Reed and entered the Derm residency. Sometime later in his career, as a Colonel, he commanded a large Army Hospital; and he was a DO.
I believe the evidence indicates that at least in terms of Military Medicine, DO's are highly regarded, talented, and have achieved positions of extraordinary stature, in spite of their degree .
While not central to the debate, I thought it might be of interest to our group to know how a small subset of DO' have fared, at least in Military Medicine. Best wishes to all.
Sincerely,
TIM
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 10:17 PM from IP address 65.32.28.49
I agree completely! I forgot to mention all of the past successful DOs out there. There are DO Surgeon Generals, Cardiovascular surgeons, etc. The prospects are better for DOs in getting residencies too. Not only can they get MD residencies, but they also have the luxury of their own DO residencies...which makes getting competitive residencies much easier. Just a thought.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 6:02 AM from IP address 206.100.37.181
I don't mean that getting those competitive residencies is ANY easier for DOs. I meant to say there is greater opportunity out there to pursue such spots. Some may disagree that DOs DO earn high profile spots, but this is "the REAL truth". DOs, in alot of programs, are favored over IMgs in general. In other programs, IMGs may be favor over DOs. DOs are found in every specialty in every state. I also want to address this issue of bias. I'm sure there is bias out there...especially more than in other regions of the country. The south, for example, is notorious for discrimination from past historical events. The bias exists in those certain areas where people are more judgemental. Bias exists everywhere...whether your black, white, african, jamaican, DO ,or IMG. Somebody is gonna have a beef with something someone else does. That is human nature. People have pre-disposed biases about everything. Some...like in this forum...think like this: MD-good DO-bad. THat's not right people. I don't care what your personal stance is on the issue. If there is such a bias, something needs to be done to correct it. Such changes can be made right here with a change in perspective. That's all I ask. I know I'll lose this argument because I'm in a MD forum, but I'd recommend hanging out in the SDN DO forum to at least experience something "differnt". I know I'm out numbered and that's fine. I'm not afraid of being a DO. I don't care what people think about me! My treatment of my patients is all I care about!
Peace
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 9:45 AM from IP address 208.193.114.50
I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with you about the quality of DO's as physicians, only pointing out that the predujice exits. From my anthropology back-ground I can tell you that bias does exist all over the world, and the hotest (and hardest to manage) topic in anthropology is our attempt to convince all the idiots out there that there is no such thing as biological races(a scientific fact). But from your arguement on the similar matter of DO's vs MDs, you give me the feeling you would become a DO just to prove the bias about them wrong. To say the bias doesn't exits is ludicrous also. I have too many DO friends who have felt the need to prove themselves so much that they are also technically board-certified as MDs too. The decision to become one type of physician over another could then be an important one, but from my stand point it has nothing to do with the philosophy of DO vs MD medicine. Medical history and my medical anthropology studies tell me the niether DOs, nor MDs, have the philosphy of medicine that they did twenty years ago--they are both more alike now then different(more middle of the road). So, for me that is not a good enough reason to be one and not the other unless your view-points are at the liberal end. The only thing that matters to me is being the best physician I can, and I don't currently believe that my patients are being best served if any of my attention is being spent on dealing with the stupidity of people who look down upon one specialty over another. Maybe other people can deal with that kind of frivilous stress when it can be avoided, but not me. Given no choice I will be whatever type or kind of physician I can--whether DO, FMG, or MD; Given options, however, I will choose the training, rotations, and residency that i feel will make me the best possible physician I can be--by alowing me to concentrate exclusively on my patients. The only way we can fixed any health care system problem is to change it from within the system, but I fail to understand how your decision to become a DO over and MD should be affected by an internal need to prove to the world that they are wrong about DOs by becoming a DO. I get the feeling that this is really what this discussion is really about.
Besides, With every passing year the biases do fade slowly away, and I am willing to bet that by the time I am a practicing physician, that there will be very little bias between FMG, in-state MDs, and DOs. I think the changes of the last fifteen years are enough evidence of this trend.
So Nut, try not to take everything so personal. You are not a DO yet. The DO philosphy is being infused into the MD world, and I don't think there is really that much difference anymore. My family goes to DO doctors and my brothers were delievered by one. Most of my free-clinic experience was under DO supervision also. If you want to be a DO, over a FMG or in-state Md, then fine be one. I think the others are only trying to explain--not unlike you explained to me about FMG's when I was new on here--that the journey is tougher on some paths, then on others,but we have never said that the destination was any less rewarding.
So, free love and understanding to all...
-A
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 10:39 AM from IP address 156.26.73.197
I see your point. The way you put things in your post make mor sense to me. I kinda have someback in anthropology, so I can see your point. I admit, I did look over that those folks were telling me that biases do exist and I sure they do...in some places. You and I and the whole world knows that people don't like each other for whatever reason...this is life. Maybe, some of the MDs that discriminate against DOs don't like a specific personal characteristic about that person, thus you'll never know if it's really the DO they're griping about. Also, let me clarify/rectify my stance. I want to be an MD first and foremost. I think DOs are great, but I'd rather be an MD. Am I willing to go to a foreign land to earn it? That remains to be seen. I want to expend all of my options before leaving the US. That's my stance. Quite possibly, I'll get into one of my state's MD schools and everything will be dandy. I don't want to become a DO just to show the world how cool I am or what a great DO I am. That's dumb. I do believe in standing up against prejudice. I don't see it as fair that people are treated differently in any case. Now, if I had an acceptance from a DO school after being rejected from my list of MD schools, I'd go. Personally, I'd probably rather stay home and go DO instead of leaving the country. I'm not saying anything is wrong with that! You guys know I have much love for schools like SGU and AUC. I STILL am considering going there, assuming all else fails. Listen...choosing the DO route was my perogative. I know y'all want to point out to me that a bias exists and that's fine. I can handle that. I've been through alot of hard times and discrimination already in my young life...I think I could handle a little more (if I get any!) To support my point, I know a DO pretty well where I work and I occasionally chat with him about stuff..chit chat. I mentioned something do the effect of being discriminated against as a DO once as he couldn't relate. He said he's never felt different or "outside the loop" in anyway. I guess it has to do with where I live. People around me, including myself, are pretty liberal and like new ideas and things. I liked the idea of DOs and everything that goes with them. DO I want to be a DO more than a MD...No. I don't care. Would I go to SIU over Kirksville...you bet! It's a matter of circumstance. I just want to be accepted into A school..any school at this point! I'd go DO just so I could be a doctor...I'll put up with whatever people throw at me. I don't care if people disagree with me on my decision to make DOs up there with MDs. A-man, we've spoken numerous times here and you know I like caribbean schools, especially SGU. I'm one of the biggest proponents of them on here! BUt, when it comes down for ME to make a decision about MY future..that's up for me to decide. Not anyone else. I understand and respect your post and your perspective. It is very unique, insightful, and well thoughout. I know I need to read more slowly, but I'm a busy guy..always in a rush. Steph, Vic, A-man..y'all know that I'm all for being an MD. I just hate to see DOs in such a bad light and get upset when their prominence in our society is attacked. I know for sure, I'll never descriminate against them..that's for sure.
Peace
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 11:40 AM from IP address 206.100.37.115
No, I understood your post, it was just the tone of it that kind of worried me. You seemed to be kind of riled up about it, and I was only trying to tell you that you were preeching to the choir... Meaning, I am pretty sure we are all on your side. I am an idealistic person too, but coming up on 25 I am just not quite as quick to start picketing like I would have at 19 or 20. There is a long road ahead of you yet, and I think you might burn out if you try to fight all the battles. You do what you can when you can, and you just have to let the rest go--yoga taught me that... I wasn't concerned about the subject--I have been argueing it for the last four years--I was merely concerned about the level of intensity you were showing for it when you are not even quite there yet. That doesn't mean you don't know more about it then the rest of us... only that there is a lot of time yet to go when you may need that intensity when it matters. Peace.
-A
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 8:44 AM from IP address 156.26.73.197
I too an am army physician. You are correct that there are very prominent DO's out there; but, your examples are military or Public Service. There are plenty of DOs in these organizations because the bias is almost nil. These same people in "the real world" would not be looked upon so highly. There are actually 3 FMG's (MD's) on the Board of Dir. for the Am College of Surgeons vs. one DO.
Personally, I believe there once was a difference in the quality of medical performed by DO's and MDs. Now, there is none. There are some outstanding (and terrible) DO's and MD's. Its unfortunate that there is a prejudice.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 10:22 AM from IP address 205.188.198.152
As the great coach of the Texas Tech Red Raiders Men's basketball program Bobby Knight's wife is quoted as saying. "While there is no harm in beating a dead horse, it doesn't do any good either."
Lets talk about religion.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 7:52 AM from IP address 204.254.144.109
Regarding the DO vs SGU MD issue - if your interest lies in working overseas it is probably preferable to be an MD. I have heard from several sources that it is in fact impossible, or very difficult to practice in the UK with a DO and several other EU countries. Look at the WHO job listings in Geneva and they specify MD. I beleive MSF (Medecans Sans Frontiers) also recruits MD's. I do beleive it is preferable to go DO if your intention is to remain in the US, only because there are far fewer hurdles to jump through (CSA, TOEFL) and contrary to what others may say - IMG's MUST DO BETTER ON USMLE's than US MD's or DO's. I got that from the "2001 1st Aid for USMLE" which gives a really coherent analysis of being an IMG and what the testing differences are. Also remember, no one outside of these forums is going to ever care nearly as much as those who write in these forums!
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 8:43 PM from IP address 216.234.218.26
Jamaica- wrong.
The fact is, right or wrong, DO's are looked at differently. People who need more advanced medical care and not just the run of the mill stuff, seek out MDs.
I am a gen surg resident. I was a student at SGU x 2 years then transferred to U Miami to finish. Trust me, it is better to have the MD after the name than a DO.
Yes, we all "just want to take care of patients". Any pt who has been to the doctor more than twice knows there is a difference in standing between DO's and MD's.
The DO's at my hospital are looked down on BY OTHER STAFF DOCTORS too. We have one in our burn unit, board certified general surgeon, DO; the other burn docs talk to her like she is an intern. They make us residents check her orders.
Right or wrong, like it or not, DO's are looked down upon in the medical community vs. MDs. The sad part is is that there isn't much of a difference in talent or ability but they will always have the stigma of being "minor league".
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 9:34 PM from IP address 198.26.123.37
Read my post below. It just makes more sense to stay home and learn medicine than going to a foreign school. Would you rather go to a foreign school than go DO? If so, forget I even mentioned DO schools because if you're not interested in their philosophy, you won't make it past the interview. I'd much rather go DO, stay home, practice medicine, and live a fruitfull life. If people have a problem with DOs, then they have issues. DOs and MDs are similar in much the same way as dentists: DMD and DDS. Two different letters on the degree, but practice the same medicine. I'll disagree with Vic again. In the phone book for my area here, MDs and DOs are listed TOGETHER..just like DMDs and DDSs. I can't help that I have a natural interest in osteopathy. I'd much rather stay home, go DO, rotate through all American hospitals, and practice as a DOCTOR..the ultimate goal. I have no interest in slamming offshore schools because I ahve an interest in them too. I'd much rather stay in the US..that's my perogative. Oh yeah...did you know that at schools that have both MD and DO schools, the students rotate together and take many of the same classes together? I heard this happens at schools like MSU and UMDNJ. Just hearsay though, but I believe it. So...my advice to you is to investigate BOTH MD and DO schools and decide for yourself. It's only fair to YOU! If you think you may be interested in osteopathy, don't let anyone deter you. It's your decision. Vic, Steph, Trojan, myself cannot make the decision for you. I have the utmost RESPECT for those folks, even though we don't agree all the time. I suggest you visit DO school websites and explore your options. In fact, don't listen to what WE (myself, Vic) say about those schools. Make up your own mind.
Peace
Oh yeah...check out my post below for further reasons wy I support DO schools.
JM
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 5:47 PM from IP address 208.142.225.132
yothis is always a contentious issue. Here is the reality
DO's in practice usually are the sanme. But DOs are NOT american medical schools and their grads are not the same commodity as US med grads. Just as IMGs are not. DO's often are do well in ortho more than IMGs. SOmetimes they are favored in ER. But these are very very weak genrealizations. It depends on the region, the program and program director. Any one who tells you it is ABSOLUTELY better to be one or the other has an agenda. Simple as that.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 12:35 PM from IP address 162.129.128.111
Hello All. Can anyone tell me to whom I speak about the logistics of bringing my cat to SGU, Grenada customs? Has anyone had any experience with this?
How about auto? I have been quoted around 500/mo to rent (long term) a vehicle and I have heard it is quite expensive to bring your own car down, but 500/mo adds up pretty quickly. Any advice out there?
Love and Peace.
PS - my phonebook seperates DO's and MD's
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 8:31 AM from IP address 161.223.167.84
there's quite a few who bring down their cats and dogs(usually the veterinary school students). I know for dogs,...I thinks it's a good half day or day in a small cage though. In terms of cars,...the cheapest I've heard so far(and I have to get one next term) is $350... but that's the same cost as a scooter for the rental...so something's fishy with the number...or scooter place. Some people buy used cars,.... if you're here for four terms....around a year and a half,.... the difference in resale of a piece of junk is probably less than the rental fees.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 10:26 AM from IP address 200.50.72.252
It is about five hundrede a month.....
well it was when i was there
I rented a car with friends for one term
we split the rent and gas
it is an expensive luxury
Nice to have if you can afford it
but really really not necessary on grenada
I would recommend your first term try no car
see how it goes......
especially if you are on campus
if you want one then that is cool too
the other thing you can do is buy a car
a used one keep it for the time you are there than sell it
the problem with that
is you are responsible for any mechanical problems with the car
It all depends on your finances
it is a nice luxury
but only two percent of the students have a car
if you really want one to tour the island
you can rent one for the weekend
or what ever period you like
john
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 11:29 AM from IP address 63.204.135.109
If you are coming as a med student, I think the school wont let you have your cat or dog (in true blue). I dont know if this is the case in grand anse as well.
As for the car, getting it from the US is surely expensive. When you get here, buy a used one in good condition. You can share the car with some friends if you want.
I am not sure about the price, although the price that Geoff sounds reasonable.
A lot of students use scooters here. Its a fun way to get around the Island.
Samer
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 11:29 AM from IP address 200.50.71.65
you can buy a decent used car for around 2000-2500US from a student leaving or a local. then you can sell it when you leave for roughly the same price unless you beat the heck out of it. it definitely beats renting. dont bother bringing your own down-duty on cars runs around 180% of the value. the cheapest rental i have heard of it 375 for a ten year old or so suzuki samurai with no air con or radio.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 12:15 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
Renting a dscent car is about 450-500. You can find cheaper crappy vehicles. As mentioned before you can buy a used from a student and re-sell to new students for same price, BUT all mechanic work (if applicable) is yours...
I brought a Jeep down, it costs about $700-$900 from FL, Duty is NOT 180%, but closer to 90-100% of the value of the car. If you bring one down, plan on selling it down there, you won't get the duty back if you re-export.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 3:33 PM from IP address 205.164.134.8
It was worth it! But: it was a CJ7, kinda guaranteed to sell down there. I sold it for profit, $8,000 sale price, but ordinary Grenadians do not pay that kind of money. I was asking for $10,000. Uli, who owns Aquarium restaurant purchased it. Does he drive it still? It was a red Renegade, maybe he has it painted now, I do not know. If I could, I would have taken it back, I loved my Jeep, but I could not get my money back, the duty I paid. So I had to part with it.
It was the ideal car for Grenada, so it was worth it. Another girl brought a similar Jeep while I was there and she had no problem selling hers either. That was an older Jeep and now Mr. Griffith, up at Grand View Inn has it - renting it out I believe. I also know of someone who brought a Suzuji Jeep and sold it too. Those cars sell.
So check the blue book value of the car you are considering, expect to pay about 95-98% of its value when you import it. I recommend getting a local customs agent to assist with the process, they charge 40 something EC, I gave gim 100 to speed things up and did not show my face until he cleared my car with the port people.
That's all. Good luck.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 4:31 PM from IP address 204.143.183.158
I dont think Uli still drives it since I have never seen it on campus ( he owns glovers too). There is a student who drives a white wrangler/renegade with green designs or words on it. Maybe that is the one from grand view.
I know of one student who brought down a brand new 280ZX or some other Z car, i dont know which. HE unloaded it on another student, and she still is trying to sell it, she has been for over a year. I guess though the practicality of that car says alot about why it hasnt sold.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 5:42 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
I am surprised Uli does not drive the Jeep. Maybe he sold it! I know he had started fixing it up. Maybe his wife has it. I know it had broken down on him, but I had mentioned to him about a few people in Grenada who know about Jeeps and how to fix them. Anyway.
The one from Grand view is a red cj-5 with black top.
Bringing a car down requires a lot of guts, especially since you might be taking a financial risk, but think of all the $$$ you will be paying in renting one! Financially the best pick would be an older (but in great shape) Suzuki Samurai/Vitara so that Duty won't be too much and it would be easy to sell to anyone down there, locals mostly.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 8:33 AM from IP address 204.143.183.158
I am trying to reserve a round trip ticket from NY to Grenada. When is the best time to return after first term? Winter break? - how long is it? When does it start, around Dec. 15th?? OR is it better to return for summer break(btwn 2nd and 3rd terms)w/the roundtrip? How long is summer break?
Another Q?
I sent my forms out to SGU a while ago, when do you hear back from SGU housing and financial aid?
Thanks for your help.
Posted on Apr 9, 2001, 7:22 AM from IP address 208.249.40.34
sgu has an agent (Liberty I think?) and a "Star" (ie sgu code) number. Bes tto call the school or check their web site. BUt Ivefound cheaper fares just calling around.
Steph
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 1:42 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
The best way to get a ticket is to pick up the phone and call one of the many travel agents in the book. Or call the SGU office and ask them. Do not depend on a group of anonymous people for these answers.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 5:37 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
I've already called the agent the university uses and they were pretty much useless. They were useless because they didn't return any of my calls. There's only one lady there who handles the Grenada stuff. After leaving her a few messages, I decided to venture out on my own.
So ... I called AA myself and used the SGU star code. With the star code for dates leaving August and returning mid December, the "discount" fare was right under $900. I think it was $879. Without the discount, the lady said it would be close to $1500. I tried called a few other airlines and checking on the net, but everything seemed to be about the same. I thought it was a bit outrageous. Plus, availability seemed to be limited.
So ... to solve my problem, I resorted to using my frequent flyer miles. United flies there through their partner BWIA. This requires 35,000 miles and seats are limited. If you have miles with British Airways, you can also use them to fly since their partners with AA. I would get on it soon ... I was a bit surprised by the lack of availability and the cost. Good luck. Hope this helped.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 7:54 PM from IP address 209.179.39.30
i'm just curious as to what the best way to become an american is? i know marrying an american is a good option but what about being sponsered? i'm currently a canadian contemplating SGU, i have aunts and uncles who are american citizens who could sponser me. does anyone know how long it takes for someone to be sponsered and let into america? or is being sponsered by relatives a real option? if I end up going to SGU my plan is to get all the sponsership paperwork done before heading to SGU. and I hope by the time i'm done my education at SGU i'd be an american? is this realistic or does anyone know any better method to become an american. i'm really curious
thanks for your help all
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 11:38 AM from IP address 24.108.188.10
Check out http://immigration.about.com and take a look at their discussion on physician immigration issues. Do you care where you will end up working? There are some laws pertaining to foreign docs if they agree to work in MUAs (medically underserved areas). Hope this helps.
Immigration is complicated. The other thing you could do right now is start entering your name into the lottery for greencards. I'm not sure how many they give out to Canadians each year, but I would start now. It's exactly what it sounds like ... a lottery where a whole bunch of people try their luck at a greencard. An important part of it is filling out the application right and using the exact specifications required for envelopes, font, etc. You can find out more at the INS site. Hope this helps.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 8:10 PM from IP address 209.179.39.30
Hi,
I was just checking out the website you mentioned. Unfortunately, if you are Canadian born, you cannot enter in this year's green card lottery...c'est la vie!
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 8:21 PM from IP address 198.168.181.169
You can run around the island...either by yourself, with other students or with the Hash House Harriers. There are lots of nice runs according to my friends that did a lot of that. IEA (the honors society) also sponsors a 5K for charity sometime during the term. I only ran at night so I stayed on campus down on the field.
>Is the rec center always PACKED?
No, in the eary mornings it is pretty much empty. In the afternoons, it is busy. That is compounded with aerobics classes scheduled for the same time.
>Do you share a dorm room with another
>student, or is it singlles?
I lived both on and off campus. I preferred off-campus but I did become an RA during 3rd and 4th terms, which helped with the expenses.
First term students share rooms, whether at Grand Anse or True Blue. I would try to get True Blue if possible. There are niceties about GA like the beach and the ladies, but being on campus is a little more convenient, especially with all of the 1st term labs like anatomy. With that said, most 1st students will be on Grand Anse. That's just the way the totem pole works. There are double or triples available...the triples only at Grand Anse.
After you are done with 1st term, you can apply for the housing lottery for true blue dorm rooms with doubles or singles situated around a common suite area. The singles are somewhere between 4 and 5 single rooms per suite, each with its own bathroom. The doubles house three rooms for a total of six student/suite. There are some new True Blue dorms being built now that may have a different set-up. May be someone still in Grenada can comment on those.
There are also a couple of dorms that house 8 singles around a common suite and bathroom. I think that these buildings are generally reserved for the undergraduate students...They are also very cheap....sometimes they will not completely fill up, so that might also be an option.
Hope this helps.
Matt McDonald
SGUSOM Class of 2003
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 3:08 PM from IP address 128.120.131.226
Re: Glover's
I just finished in St. Vincent, so I assume that it is still there. They were remodeling the place just as I was leaving. I think that the TV is no longer in there however. So there is just one TV in the student center playing ESPN Sport Center 24 hours a day at megadecibel levels.
Matt
PS-I agree with you on the ladies. Rosie's chicken burritos were the best in Grenada, IMHO.
Posted on Apr 8, 2001, 10:12 AM from IP address 128.120.131.226
I wanted to thank you all for the great info on this forum. I think everyone that contributed did a great job. I just found out that I have been accepted for the August 2001 term and am ecstatic. I hope to see all of you down there. Just out of curiousity does anyone know how the housing situation work? And also can you request to be placed in housing with someone you know? Thanks again guys,
Mustafa
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 1:21 PM from IP address 137.52.116.115
Hello. From your question it seems as though you are still waiting to hear. I am too. If you are waiting when did you apply and when did you interview?
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 10:13 PM from IP address 152.163.213.62
Congratulations!!!!! I am waiting to hear myself, so I don't know much about housing, but I was curious as to where you interviewed and when you heard. I interviewed in Feb. and did not hear yet? Thanks!
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 7:16 PM from IP address 152.163.201.211
A question about being a DO...........I didn't know what one was until I started my Clinicals
by always make love with a trojan (no login)
I know that makes me look kind of like an idiot
but that has never stopped me before
Since i did not know what a DO was
I really had no reason to consider it as an option
Therefore, I really could not give you guys a fair evaluation of what I would have done if I were applying again....(not that I have any desire to apply to medical school again)
but my question is....
about specializing as a DO
I realize most DO's go into a primary care field which includes ER
but what about surgical specialties.....
or something like Rad Onc, Derm....
I know there are DO residencies in ORTHO
I think a total of twenty four Spots(What i have been told any ways)
but I haven't seen too many DO's in specialized MD residencies........
I was wondering why...
A DO student has told me that DO's and there general philosophy
by nature are more in tuned to primary care specialties
I think that may play a part
but most DO's I have met......DO school wasn't there first choice
and don't completely buy into the holistic philosophy
My questions
Why are their not more DO's in the other specialties?
john
btw, this is not meant to rehash an argument about going to DO vs foreign Medical school
and the DO students are just like every other type of medical student I have met
Some are awesome, Some are good, Some are OK, other you kind of scratch your head.....
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 11:57 AM from IP address 63.204.135.109
You're right. There aren't a whole bunch of DOs in specialist roles. My mom had a DO Nephrologist. Lst time I went to Barnes-Jewish (Washington Univ.) hospital, I was in the elevator with a DO orthopedic surgeon. I haven't seen any in Rad Onc, but I know of alot of them in Radiology. You are also right when you say most don't buy into the philosophy. Most don't. Of the DOs I'm acquainted with, none of them use the OMM stuff. DOs and MDs are gradually blending together. More DOs, today, are specializing, while IT APPEARS that more MDs are going to primary care. This is a trend talked about on the SDN...it's not my own thought so don't slam me if you don't believe me when I say it. Thats a trend that alot of folks agree upon today, not just me! As you know, I think DO is a good option. Many people don't agree with me.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 1:03 PM from IP address 206.100.37.115
One reason that DO's are not as widely seen in specialties is that there are simply fewer DO's than there are MD's.
I think one probable reason is that the gradual intergration of DO's into mainstream medicine did not really begin until the mid 60's. So it is really only the last generation of DO's that have had access to top allopathic residency positions.
Now I know I may drive the J man so crazy he has to revert to being the NUT but I think it is harder for DO specialist to get referals form MD primary care providers. My friend the DO general surgeon has told me that there are two major primary care groups in town that have never sent him a patient. (JM I do not think this is right or fair and I do not condone it, but it is simply the way it is.) What is really silly about this situation is my friend is an associate professor of surgery at Texas Tech (allopathic) School of Medicine.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 1:57 PM from IP address 204.254.145.95
I'm not gonna go crazy. I understand that people discriminate about everything. What's to say medicine is any different. You'd hope that doctors would be level headed enough to recognized equality and shun any types of bias/discrimination. I agree totally with your last post.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 4:00 PM from IP address 206.100.37.65
One would hope that doctors would be different but unfortunately the reverse seems to be true in many respects. Medicine is a profession full of ugly politics and often petty rivalries. In our city there are two main hospitals and there is a good deal of competition between the groups of doctors that favor one over the other.
I have seen a board certified orthopedic surgeon whining like a child over not getting his share of referals from the central triage organization for back problems.
I myself have had collegues go behind my back bad mouthing me to the hospital administration or to PI attorney's with whom I did a good deal of business. One case was so bad I finally went to the guy and told him if he mentioned my name again we would have to settle the situation man to man.
There is a great deal of money involved in medicine and money makes people crazy. (A very good reason to to follow the cheap bastard's advice on debt is that when you don't desparately need money it is far easier to disregard it when make ethical descisions.) A major reason for professional discremination against competent doctors that it is just easier to isolate and scapegoat someone with a difference.
Anyway, as you can tell I have had a little too much time on my hands the past couple of days. Have a great weekend. Do you still have an A in organic.
Victor
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 5:09 PM from IP address 207.16.165.149
No more A for me. I'll finish with a strong B, which is good. I'm taking the second half this summer with a "real Organic chemist guy" whose supposed to be top-notch and make this stuff easy. It already is easy to me now, I just bumbled on my last test. I scored a 95/150! And you can only miss 150 points all semester to earn an A. That's damn near impossible with my teacher! I'm happy to get a B+. The material is hard and my professor even said that he's gonna have no mercy on us. I knew the material going into that last test, I just acted like a retard and didn't put down what I knew! Stupid me.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 10:25 PM from IP address 206.100.37.66
SN1...SN2...E1....E2.......just put a gun to my friggin head...
by always make love with a trojan (no login)
No worries Jamaican
Orgo is tough...esp, when you get a pain in the
Professor
I came across a similar thing
Our professors rotated per section they were teaching
I got a professor that moved my grade from an A
to a B
I don't know what it was about that guy
I just could not answer anything he asked me
it was like going in to a deep brain freeze
hey....at least you get to play with those great erector set molecules
john
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 10:42 PM from IP address 152.163.204.198
I'm a lucky one. Organic comes easy to me! I just bumbled hardcore on my last test. Theoretically, I can miss 22 points total for the remainder of the semester and get an A for the class. The likelihood of that is very slim, so I'm banking on a B. My professor wrote me a letter of rec for a scholarship and he said that I grasp the difficult material very well. He said that it come easy to some people, like myself, whereas he struggled through Organic. I atest my success to playing all thos Super Nintendo and playstation games when I was little. No joke. Playing those games allowed my brain to think in more virtual and 3-dimensional situations. Taht's my explanation. Hopefully, this summer I'll get an A. My teacher for the summer semester is a retired Organic Chemist. He's supposed to be "the bomb diggity"! We'll see. I heard alot of people who got B's in Org I got As in this guy's Org II class. I hope so. That'll help relieve some anxiety! lol. Nothing seems to phase e in Organic. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging because I'm trying not to. For example, my mind follows those mechanisms very easily. Again, I think some people have a natural ability to do well in it and others aren't. One guy in my class is taking Org I for THE THIRD TIME! I was like..man, that sucks! Oh well..gotta get ready for the symphony tonight! It'll be fun and I'll get a requirement done for my music class at the same time! Peace.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 2:46 PM from IP address 206.100.37.93
Do you guys have call? how often and in house or home call?
I am driving everybody crazy with this Q...
i think it is because i am going to miss my sleep so much
we've become pretty attached the last few months....
Sometimes i think I should have done Psychiatry
call q 7.....or Derm, what type of dermatologic emergency happens at two in the morning...
john
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 4:16 PM from IP address 205.188.192.171
i hope your girlfriend realizes how important it is she comes a close second to sleep...
by the way no need to yell!
>>what are the hours like for your rad onc res?
I tend to be there 7.15, leave between 5-9, usually between 6-8.
>>Do you guys have call? how often and in house or ome call?
God yes. Its horrible beleive it or not. We take all inpatient consults (and hopkins has a dedicated cancer center and there are people all over the world flying in. Anyway this is ON TOP of our clinic (ie no dedicated consult team). Tehn there are urgent and emergent calls; cord compression etc. Its home call but you usually do get called in during the week at least once. Some weeks are ok some are ****.
People usually get very very weird by weds. Others think "oh beeper call; what's the big deal". I can't explain how much codifying and palliating (of docs) we do. Being an intern waw FAR easier.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 5:21 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
If the spinal cord becomes compressed from disease (cancer typically but I had a rare case Im writing up that was from extramedullary haematopoesis) only neurosurg and/or RT can help (with steriods in the interm).
|S
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 6:42 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
i dont know what a "meylophistic" disorder is, but cord compression is when a tumor invades in the canal litereally compressing the cord and leading to symptoms (ultimately) which reflect the level of disease activiting.
Steph
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 8:08 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
Would like opportunity to clarify stupid question........
by always make love with a trojan (no login)
What I meant to ask and was not very clear about was.....
What was the source of the extra medullary hematopoeisis(Production of red blood cells and white blood cells outside the Bone marrow....this rarely happens after birth)?
As i understand it you usually get extra medullary hematopoeisis secondary to a hematologic disorder...
specifically, that caused myelofibrosis(fibrosis of bone marrow)....
Rarely, you can get something like Sarcoid to cause Myelofibrosis(fibrosis of Bone marrow). This, from my little understanding, is not very common at all....However, one of the hospitals i rotated at this was the diagnosis that was made for a patient with sarcoid.......
So when you brought up EMH it just peaked my curiosity as to the exact source of the EMH....
and Myelophthisis,I thought, was analogous to myelofibrosis but did not imply the source
(ie. could be hematologic, could be toxin related, etc.)
and Myelofibrosis implied a hematologic source
I am pretty sure, i am wrong, and am currently trying to find a satisfactory definition of Myelophthisic
anyways, you peaked my curiosity
and I asked a question without thinking....
john
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 9:53 PM from IP address 152.163.204.198
We (the trauma team) missed one at the other night(2AM). Guy was drunk, fell, said he couldn't move. We (general surgery) told ER to call ortho...they said no cord compression....MRI said he did...ooops!
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 10:38 AM from IP address 205.188.198.152
anyway you weren't necessarily wrong. the most logical explanation was he was a drunkn who fell. BUt you go tthe mri and that's what counts.
Meylofibrosis was the cause of the EMH.
Its is extremely rare.
The case we did was a "hopkins classic"; that is no one else treats this, but it fits a theoretical rationale, there are a couple case studies (mostly chinese?) and so the guy could sign consent for it so we did it to great effect. We had to make sure there were other sites of haematopoesis before we treated lest we make him pancytopenic. It workd, patient HR is very happy, and so am I becuase I have a paper.
Steph
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 2:09 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
This is my understanding of it, and steph will correct me where i am wrong
by amlwat (no login)
The spinal cord is in a fixed space
If there is a growing mass in that fixed space
than the spinal cord becomes compressed
One of the emergent treatments, as steph said is
steroids, why?
I think it is because a lot of the time edema(swelling)secondary to inflammatory mediators contributes to the size of the tumour or mass....and buy giving steroids(an anti inflammatory)you are trying to decrease the swelling in the area
Both Neuro and Rad onc are cool for cord compression
but i think it depends in the cause?
When i was doing peds a girl, on high dose steroids because of her Lupus, developed cord compression
secondary to an epidural(outside the covering of the spinal cord) abcess formation starting at c8 and moving down to s1 or s2.....What i mean to say is
it covered he whole spine.....
That is a surgical procedure.....the abcess needs to be drained.......not radiation can help that
On the other hand, if it is related to a Ca like prostate(i think this is relatively common in a patient with extensive disease and met) than you have a growing mass in the fixed space compressing on the spinal cord....now you have a choice call neuro and debulk the tumour( cut as much of it as you can out)
btw, you will never get all of it or call Rad onc and have them irradiate the tumour....I think, don't know for sure, it does the job just as well
Both have their negatives but putting someone who has extensive disease through a procedure like that...where they have to crack open your spinal canal to get to the mass may not be prudent....
and form what I understand a lot of the times when the disease extensive enought to cause cord comprssion the procedures are don more for palliation and for cure
Any ways, this is probably all wrong
so don't believe any of it until steph clarifies
john
BTW, I wrote this more for me to see.... if I understood what rad onc guys due in general since
i never really had any extensive encounters with one
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 8:38 AM from IP address 152.163.204.187
Neurosurgery can work but its invasive. Radiation is a classic emergent treatment with steriods on board. SOmetimes its done after surgery. Thefamous idiodic thing thats done is an intern/resident/attending calls us for xrt when its a compression/propulsion of the vertebral bodies and we ahve to explain that radioation isn't lithotripsy; that we cant fix that. (GOd how I hate July)!
Steroids, as john noted, shrink the edema. This buys time as most of the acute symptoms are secondary to this. But it doesnt take care of the problem and ultimately, the mass itself will be the effect and you will lose fuction at the concerned level.
If there is a growing mass in that fixed space
than the spinal cord becomes compressed
If, as john said, its from an abcess, then there is no xrt role. That requires drainage.
Most prostate case caused bony met pain whihc we can also treat. Often our cases are breast cancer, sometimes prostate, often lung. SOmetimes ependymoma and rarer stuff like that.
Surgery can't be given alone. You need rt. Its often prefered if a mass alone is the problem (no vertebral fracture) as its non invasive.
It is palliative. Its generally (unless a spinal cord tumor) sign of stage 4 disease and thus palliative.
So juohns got it basically right.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 2:15 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
just regret
My posts are intended to help people out, answer my own questions....
I try to due it with some levity....
I don't consider myself a grown up
nor do I ever want to be a grown up
and i, in all honesty, never got Ms Manner's guide
on how to be a doctor
So the end point is I am truly sorry to have insulted you
It is/was not my intent
If it is something specific in my post that upset
you please point it out and
I will try to avoid doing whatever it was in the future
If it is my posts, in general, than i think that may be more difficult for me to change....
If you have any suggestions, feel free
John
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 7:37 PM from IP address 205.188.192.173
In any forum out there, you see two things over and over. Teen aged mind sets, which need no further explanation and should be ignored. THe second is misunderstanding when a post may be interpreted as having a tone the poster didn't intend; body language, tone of voice etc isn't present here. THings get misinterpreted, come off the wrong way. So it is a good idea to not speak glibly or off the cuff here; I know I've accidently come across at times sounding harsh when it was hardly my intention. SO I try to be mindful. I think its a good idea in general, to keep the geniality here, if we don't "spew" answers out off the top of our heads. To post as we might speak, but when in speaking other cues indicate our true intentions and attitudes. JUst food for thought, and a reminder to myself too.
All the best,
Steph
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 8:13 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
I don't think you come off as childish or negative in any way. My personal feeling is you have added a new and helpful deminsion to this forum and I learn from and enjoy your post. I am looking forward to reading all about your experience as an orthopedic surgical resident. I beleive you are the only surgeon posting here and I really hope you continue.
Victor
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 10:40 AM from IP address 204.254.145.132
yeah i dont mean to sound as if i dont appreciate john or his very useful contributions. Its merely an observation that people can come across not as intended, myself most definitely included on the net (hence this post!)
Steph
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 2:16 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
There have been, however, some bad things going on this term. Example, two of my friend have been robbed (in the middle of the night) several times. Yesterday another friend of mine almost had his car stolen in front of his own eyes. Also, some girls who decide to go out jogging alone at night have been harrassed by the locals.
Advise: dont go out at night alone. stay in large groups.
Grenada is a peaceful island with the kindest people you will ever know.
Samer
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 2:14 AM from IP address 200.50.72.252
alright no need for sarcasm. I know what samar means. There is very little serious crime in grenada. there is some petty stuff and the occasional larger problem (something taken off someone). Bottom line, use common sence but dont fret.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 2:02 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
crime is on the rise in grenada, and as students are looked on as rich americans, or cash cows, there is a fair amount of crime against us. Most of the crime is petty theft, although there have been incidents of worse. Most things occur when students are doing things they shouldnt, like walking the streets at 2am, or flashing money,etc. Chancellor Modica was just robbed at gunpoint outside the Boatyard nightclub in Lanc Aux Epines, pretty much the nicest area in grenada. But that was really late at night as well.
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 5:49 AM from IP address 200.50.72.252
Grenada is like any other place in the world.............
by Always make love with a trojan (no login)
It is no some bastion of people
who are all loving and caring
There are the rich and there are the poor
and in Grenada
from what I have seen their can be huge despairities
between the two
....You as a student,despite all of your objections,
are one of the rich..........
you probably spend more on tuition than many earn in greater then ten years....
This being said...most of the people of grenada are wonderful....they do carry a bit of a big city attitude
because grenada is one of the more populated islands
...one of the Grenadians i had met describe it like being from NYC compared to Carriacou which is small and very few people( some of the most beautiful desolate beaches that i have been to, i mean we spent a whole day on the beach and only one kid showed up......it was great) are from a small town in kansas
There are some people that do try to take advantage of the students.........so you have to go there without any pretentions about the place
and treat it like you are going to any other city in America
john
Posted on Apr 7, 2001, 9:00 AM from IP address 152.163.204.187
NOw that s a good question. Phone interview is NOT done for US residents but I cant answer that. If you can be spared the cost, call the school and talk to intl advisor bob ryan at 1-800-899-6337
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 3:54 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
I just want to thank everybody (steph, John, etc) for everything. I just leanred that I have been accepted in a school here in the states and therefore will not be attending SGU in August. As much as I am happy about getting accepted here in the states, I know that I will be missing out on some great experinces at SGU. I will still come and check out this great fourm. once again, thanks everybody.
Zaid
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 9:41 PM from IP address 144.92.164.197
this is a perrineal (not perineal) problem. You usually need at least four weeks. you can get a termporary cert. make sure you have this before your start.
steph
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 8:45 AM from IP address 162.129.136.49
question about living quarters during American rotations
by Nolan Ryan (no login)
1) who determines where you do your rotations?
2) what do you do to find a place to live during those rotations?
3) how much time do you have to find a place to live between rotations (from one place to the next..)
4) do you ever get back to back rotations (or more) at the same place?
5) Are the rotations done with other SGU students? If so, do you all ever get a place together (cheaper) etc???
any other input???
Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 11:29 AM from IP address 128.172.61.100
1-school and you, make phone calls especially for sub-i's and electives.
2-some hospitals offer housing (first come first serve), ex. st joseph's (NJ), some offer FREE holes in the hospital (st michael's, newark, nj)
3-varies, sometimes none!
4-especially in the UK, YES. But in the US it happens too, especially if you arrange that early on.
5-never heard of that, but YES you DO rotate w/ others
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 4:53 PM from IP address 204.143.183.158
Questions to your answer.....er , I mean ... Answers to your questions
by always make love with a trojan (no login)
1) who determines where you do your rotations?
Your core rotations are determined by the school
Yes, you do have input as to where amd sometimes when
your elective and Sub I you determine
you can only do twelve weeks outside SGU designated hospitals
2) what do you do to find a place to live during those rotations?
Brooklyn-find a place through school housing or on your own- both are expensive
most other places through hospital or on your own
3) how much time do you have to find a place to live between rotations (from one place to the next..)
It is up to you usually you have your( most of the time anyways) set a few months in advance so you can anticipate a move
If you decide to do everything in Brooklyn area you can probably live in the same place throughout your clinicals or at least most of them
4) do you ever get back to back rotations (or more) at the same place?
yes, I spent all of my third year at one hospital and all of my fourth year travelling...I actually chose to have my schedule this way
5) Are the rotations done with other SGU students? If so, do you all ever get a place together (cheaper) etc???
Yes, lots of them and other DO students and US MD students and Foreign Medical students
yes if you can live in one are for an extende period of time several of my friends roomed together
It was cheaper and their place was very very nice
hope this helps
john
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 12:21 PM from IP address 63.204.135.109
the new website is not quite ready for viewing, as all the old info has to be transferred to the new site and then updated. the one she is referring to on MSN is just a couple of pictures of SO outings.
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 12:16 PM from IP address 200.50.72.252
In looking into SGU more, I was told by some pals back in med school at home that a few students transfer to that school from SGU after the second year.
Also, I know of 1 guy that did the first year at SABA, then was accepted into the 1rst year class at our state school (so he did year one all over, but was in our american school).
Have any of you folks heard anything about doing this? Is it very common are very uncommon? What determines whether or not you can? What if you do aberrantly well on step 1 and everything else?
Also, I posted a question earlier today about where people live when they are doing their 3rd year rotations in the US... if you know anything about that, could you go down and answer those questions?
THANKYOU!!!!!!
Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 4:52 PM from IP address 128.172.61.100
Don't think about going down to SGU with hopes of coming back because it's VERY hard to do. It's possible, but don't put your cookies on it. There are alot of factors that go into transferring. It's almost dare I say...luck! You have to have great grades, test scores, and letters of rec. State residency helps, but it depends on the state and school. Knowing someone on the inside is probably the most helpful ingredient. Mix all of them together and add a little bit of luck and you have the makings of a terrific bowl potential transfer. But even all of this might not cut it! Good luck, but don't bank on those fantasies.
P.S. What's with the baseball names all of a sudden!? It's getting ridiculous. Sure, I changed my name. But, I don't change it every time I post!
JM
Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 6:06 PM from IP address 206.100.37.34
most who do do so after step oneinto clinical years. The ones most successful were interviewed in US schools previously but not acccepted. Some tranfer after the first year but by and large have to repeat (so its not a transfer really). Why do it unless you want a posh residency. SOme schools are more sgu friendly. SUNY schools tend to be but you ahve to be from NY. Miami is; others too.
Its very tough to do, 7-10% a year down from about 50% in the early days.
dont go counting on it, but you can aim for it.
Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 7:58 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
it is because the curriculum at some U.S. schools and SGU.....
by amlwat (no login)
Do not match up exactly
so you may not get the advanced placement credits for a particular class...or you may have not have taken a particular class which they take in their first year and you will take in your second if you would have stayed at SGU
and it also depends on attrition
Is there a spot available in the class that you want to go into.........
John
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 8:46 AM from IP address 209.108.11.67
IS there anyone out there that has repeated a year of medical school after SGU? If so, did you coast through the repeat year or did you have to study your butt off for another whole year? Did it make the boards easier because of the year of review?
Just curiuos...
-A
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 10:48 AM from IP address 156.26.73.197
He transferred to George Washington University
he finished his second year and his USMLE step 1
He rocked his second year........
From what I have heard most people who transfer out of SGU to US medical schools are very very successful
The Chief Resident in Ortho in one of the hospitals I rotated through was a transfer from SGU
The residency he was doing was probably one of the top twent residencies in the country...
another transfer finnished consistently at the top of his class, I am not sure what residency he got...
but i remember he had an issue with the administration because he did not recieve AOA status despite being one of the top medical student in his class.....the reasoning was that he transferred in to the school
john
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 12:09 PM from IP address 63.204.135.109
on the other discussion board i frequent (lsu football) i always change up my name from one baseball player to another,.. everyone knows its me because it is a baseball player.. just makes it interesting
if it bothers you guys just tell me and i'll stop that non-sense
Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 9:16 PM from IP address 128.172.61.100
Actually while I respect someone not wanting to disclose too much identity here (i generally post by my first name though many know my last) I do think that by and large a consistent monkier - a real first name at least- is fair if someone is posting repeatedly. It also cuts down on idiot posting.
steph
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 12:25 PM from IP address 162.129.128.134
I have an interview with SGU in the next few weeks has anyone ever interviewed at the Bay SHore office? Also do you need start up cash for these schools, what I mean in I am relying 100% on loans and they wont come until I start school right? ANy help is greatly appreciated..Jeff
Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 6:11 PM from IP address 129.49.12.13
Bay shore is a hole in the wall basically but it serves its purposes. Ive never been there myself, this is through friends.
Loans will do you but you might need some for the first few weeks. Call financial aid.
Steph
I have an interview with SGU in the next few weeks has anyone ever interviewed at the Bay SHore office? Also do you need start up cash for these schools, what I mean in I am relying 100% on loans and they wont come until I start school right? ANy help is greatly appreciated..Jeff
Posted on Apr 4, 2001, 7:52 PM from IP address 24.180.143.13
Actually it is not a hole in the wall! It is not a campus! But it is a decent office floor, plus they have a lot of **** down in grenada now, so bayshore does not have to be huge. But it NOT that small...
Good luck!!
Posted on Apr 5, 2001, 4:49 PM from IP address 204.143.183.158
If you are accepted you need $1000 as a deposit to hold your place, afterwards it will be deducted from your tuition. If you are relying 100% on loans, then after the deposit you need not worry if all your fin aid apps and papers are rolling at that point because they will then count the loans you are eligible for toward your balance and you do not need to send further payments after the initial deposit is received.
Good Luck!
Posted on Apr 6, 2001, 6:28 AM from IP address 200.50.72.252
And you can only miss 150 points all semester to earn an A. That's damn near impossible with my teacher! I'm happy to get a B+. The material is hard and my professor even said that he's gonna have no mercy on us. I knew the material going into that last test, I just acted like a retard and didn't put down what I knew! Stupid me. 
Students' Housing Exchange.
