If Britain goes back to Imperial, do you expect to adopt American fluid capacity (16 oz. pint), or will you stick with the traditional Imperial units (20 oz. pint)?

Britain is still on the imperial scale for "descriptive" uses. Whether Britain remains imperial for unit sales/pricing depends on the outcome of the current Appeal.

The pint (used in pubs, for milk, etc) is the imperial pint of 20 fl oz. There is little likelyhood that the government would change this for the US pint/fl oz. BWMA could not support such a change without a change to its constitution.

Units of distance and weight are the same as US units (except for the ton).

I don't see the point in either the US or the UK adpoting the other's derivative volume measurements (i.e. pints, gallons, etc.), but it might be nice to standardise on a common fluid ounce. Since the two are already so close in value, the change will be practically unnoticable.

How about a compromise? The fluid ounce used could be the British one (i.e. weighing an ounce) and the pint could consist of 16fl oz. That way, the American expression, 'A pint's a pound the world around' would actually be true!!

I actually like that idea a lot. ‘FPS User’ (in the ‘Anti-BWMA Viewpoint forum) was trying to convince me of this, but, at that time, I was unfamiliar with the exact difference between the American and the British ounce. Now that I am, it makes more sense to use the British ounce since it is based on water (Ours is an ounce of wine). I also like the idea of unifying weight and capacity.

As much as Customary measure is entrenched in both America and Britain, I don’t think it has a very good chance of surviving in official use unless we work together in unifying our systems. If we make an international standard, we will have another strong argument against metrication.

[As much as Customary measure is entrenched in both America and Britain, I don’t think it has a very good chance of surviving in official use unless we work together in unifying our systems. If we make an international standard, we will have another strong argument against metrication.]

Except the governments responsible for standardization are pro-metric. If anything was done with the fluid ounce, it'd wind up as 30 mL--despite the fact that this isn't an ounce of any liquid. What we really need is a Transatlantic Lobby Group fighting for traditional measures--then we might get something done.

The main problem from the UK side is that a change in the quantity of units would require the government's involvement and support and, at the moment, the government here does not even recognise UK units (other than in a few case such as the pub pint).

The only opening for such a proposal is that, should a future UK government be persuaded of the need to restore the legality of customary units, then they should adopt US units where an incompatibility exists.

Many UK manufacturers already use the US fl oz on their packaging for export to the USA so would not be affected by a change - however, breweries would be difficult to convince since the US pint is smaller than the UK pint.

Firstly, a pint of water weighs a pound and thus gives credit to our liquid measures (which wine did the US use to make there liquid measurement?)

Secondly, giving up our measures to be the same as America is exactly the same as giving up to metric

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the US but surrending our measures to anyone is wrong - not just the EU.

If anything shouldn't the US system mirror the birthplace of imperial measures?

However I do recognise that if the US and UK liwuid measure was the same then the imperial system *would* have more of a fighting chance of survival. I'm only glad that our distance measures are the same!!!

Er, actually, the US does use the units from the birthplace of imperial measures. They retain the "true" British pint of 16 fl oz from 1776.

It was Britain who later changed, around 1820, when the pint was changed to 20 fl oz in a half-hearted attempt to go decimal (like the florin). The slogan was changed from "A pint's a pound the world around" to "A pint of water is a pound and a quarter".

Fear not, however, BWMA has no plans to convert to US units. Such a change would require amendment to our constitution and approval at an AGM.

But will there be ninjas?

1776 is also supposedly the point at which some of the spellings in the two dialects differed, as English in 1776 spelled words very similar to the way we Americans still spell them today (ie analyze, humor, color, center, etc). Just a worthless fact. The site that makes that claim can be reached at: http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/dict-toc.html

[Firstly, a pint of water weighs a pound and thus gives credit to our liquid measures (which wine did the US use to make there liquid measurement?)]

Your pint weighs 1 lb. 4 oz.

The wine used is unknown, as is the temperture the measurement was taken at. You'll have to ask Queen Anne that question.

Explanatory note: the US gallon is the Queen Anne gallon, established during her reign.

Blimey! Information overload!
Actually, thanks for all the info from these postings it's certainly rather educational (and yes the pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter is what I meant - sorry!)

Re; Spelling and redefinitions of liquid weight - it's probably to do with evolvement and thus improve things.
Heck even the metre (meter) was redefined in the 80's .

As far as spelling is concerned, there's a prime example above - if metre is spelled meter, then what differentiates [<-click spell check!] meter (a yard and a bit) from meter (the thing you put the money in when you park the car).

Also compare donor with colour (both spelled in English) - the "or" is pronounced slightly different to "our" in those two words.

Unless you're from Birmingham!

Anyway thanx again for the educational download I now know every answer to the questions thrown up on the "Weekest link" quiz machine in my local pub!!!

Hmm...our "or" pronunciations sound the same. Donor and Color have the same end sounds. And the meter, well, they're both equally hated...nobody likes the 1.09 yard version any more than they like the big metal box that blinks "PAY HERE OR FACE FINE," lol. In seriousness though, you can easily tell what meter you are refering to, as it would sound rather absurd to say "100 meters from here" and think that means you need to walk by 100 meter machines. Also, we call them parking meters here, or eletric meters for measuring electrical consumption, or water meters to measure monthly gallonage usage, or gas meters to measure cubic footage of natural gas consumed per month, and you get the idea. Simple.

From where I live we pronounce "or" in donor with more of a harder longer "orrr" sound whereas "our" in colour has a more lifted "uhhhr" sound. But there again there's so many regional accents over here.....

Funny, my gas meter shows cubit feet whereas my bill shows cubic metres and my (brand new) boiler quotes gallons - I wonder what rounding happens there when they bill me?!?!?!?

I don't think it is required to redefine the pint as 1 pound and thus, 20 fluid ounces, but it makes sense, as hexa-decimal and duo-decimal thinking are undoubtedly superior to decimal:

as I understand it, our system is- 60 minims= 1 fluid dram; 8 fluid drams= 1 fluid ounce; 20(16) fluid ounces in a pint; 8 pints to a gallon and finally, 8 gallons to a bushel: If our system was 16 fl oz gain, it might help the internal consistancy of our system, as I belive the way it should be, with lineal land measures to a base of twelve, and weights/capacities aligned on a 16 base basis, has drifted from its course. After all, a gallon is *10* pounds, not eight, and inches feet and yards( and all other small length measures) are to a basis of twelve, but the mile is to 8! (8 furlongs= 1760 yards).

Seeing as the mile is now more popular, unlike when it was the furlong, which is why the mile was redefined as it was, why not make the mile take precedency over the furlong- it is still an eigth of a mile, but is 216 yards, as a new mile will be 12 to the power 3- 1728 yards--- WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK???

"The International English or Customary System of Measures"

Sounds good. I believe us and America mus come to a compromise on this, such as:

Under the already defined circumstances, a fluid ounce, weighs one ounce of water, and there are 16 in a pint. Brewers may not like it, but maybe we can decrease the tax on beer substantially, making it worth it.

The stone should be adopted officially by America.
The gallon should weigh 8 pounds.


I think this is vital, as I believe that America is closser to being metric than Britain is. Most don't believe this, but I do. Fpr pne, the short ton and hundredweight are decimal... in a way. Our ton is closer to the metric ton, so is easier to metricate, thus, once again, I propose the 16 lb stone and 16 cwt ton (8 stone in a cwt, still)

This international standardised English system must be set up in the next five years, I believe. Our systems are similar enough to make the compromise possible.