Leonard wrote:
"No feeling person would want to eat sugar from
a box that said it was a kilogram. It is an affront."

Are you serious when you're asserting that 1 kg of chocolates tastes bad and 2.2 lbs of the same chocolates don't?

to me the word kilogram tastes bad
it has a nasty feel
and the word pound has a good feel

do you feel good saying "1.6 kilometer"
instead of "one mile"? I am curious? I
assume you grew up saying "kilometer", please
correct me if I am mistaken about you.
Maybe saying "kilometer" feels good. Tell
me about this, about your subjective experience
of the metric words.

I love the mile because it comes from a thousand
roman legion steps. Mille passuum, milia passuum.
Because it is marked by old stones along european

I am watching a German/English movie called Utz now
and answering email
roads two thousand years old. Do you ever want
to say mile? Say on a good day when you are out
in the country, and are happy? Or do you always
enjoy more saying "kilometer"?

These things matter slightly more than chocolate
to me at this time in my life, perhaps as a child
chocolate mattered more. Also people's honest
reactions matter.

but really, why would anyone want to
eat sugar (that white granulated stuff)
from any kind of box?

Bryan and I were talking about sugar
or at least that is my understanding of
what Lyle Tate (?) sells,

we were not I think discussing chocolate

(you brought chocolate up. Are you fond of it?)

Yes, that is right, but it's "Tate and Lyle".

HI BRYAN!

You asked about the URL for pound inch and I posted
it. Did it work?

There are some physics problems there. You will see
the link to them:

www.planck.com/poundinchproblems

or something like that. Don't try to work them since
physics is not your specialty I think but see how
they strike you just as literature. I'd be glad of
any reaction from you pos or neg.

It is amazing how much simpler the calculations are
for these college freshman physics problems if they are
in pound inch. If you translate them into metric they
get messier. It is a refreshing surprise to me!

Andrew Usher of this bwma board got me interested
in pound inch units.

Yes, thank you very much, the address you posted worked although I haven't had time to look at it in that much depth. I shall, however, proceed to do that tomorrow.

Just for you I will post a link to Tate and Lyle's official site:

http://www.tate-lyle.co.uk/

I hope you manage to derive such vast amounts of pleasure from your sugar fuelled viewing of that site, that your head begins to spin in glucose joy!

Anyone would feel bad after eating two pounds of chocolate.

Bryan, speaking of psychoactive substances
like sugar I have invented a comicstrip superhero
called "Metric Mouse" who takes a magic potion
called TURKIUM to increase his metricky powers.

(Sort of the way Popeye the Sailorman takes
spinach at times of crisis to increase his strength.)

Turkium has the ability to make you silly enough
to work problems using metric units.

So if Metric Mouse has a physics problem that more
or less solves itself in pound inch, and I want to
illustrate how much messier solving in metric is,
then I have Metric Mouse take a big dose of
Turkium
(turkey, like the bird, is slang for clueless nitwit)
and say some magic word like "compulsoroolaaah!"
and then I have him solve the same problem over
again but in metric term (revealing the mess.)

Wondering if turkium is a good name for the magic
metrification-giving drink and what should the magic
word be. Hope such concerns do not strike you as
nugatory. (this does not mean made of nougat)
Sometimes terminology makes a story work.

maybe it is a good time to lay it on the line
in terms someone who grew up with kilometers
might understand.

1.6 kilometers is a mile. that means 1.6 meters
is a roman legion's pace (5 of the foot measure
which the romans also used)

That means if any system of measuring arises which
has a basic length unit of 1.6 centimeters (and one
probably will) THAT SYSTEM CONTAINS THE MILE. A hundred
of the basic lengths make a pace and a thousand paces
is a mile.

OK now ANY SYSTEM in which G is a millionth, c is a
billion, and h-bar is a trilliontrillionbillionth has
to have 1.6 centimeters basic length unit. That is
algebra. In US we learn it at age 14 but in Europe
maybe earlier. You just solve. If gravitation and the
speed of light and the fundamental energy/frequency
ratio are those things
then you just solve with a little algebra and see
that the length unit must be that. So that system
contains the mile.

But actually not just that system. Any system where the
basic proportions in nature are nice decimal numbers,
powers of ten, contains the mile. And a few other
traditional units like gallon etc. But let's keep it
simple.

So the thousands of roman paces and civilized german
and english et cetera paces that measured out the miles
all over europe for many centuries, the thousands of
those paces are in step with the millions of gravity
and the billions of light and the trillions of quanta
of energy in the universe.

They are in step for no good reason. Purely by accident. And I swear to you by whatever you think
is serious. Let's say by the city of Berlin. By the
freedom of Berlin and by the luck of Berlin and by
all the angels in the sky over Berlin, that the mile
will not go away.

It just will not. When the time comes to bargain the
mile will be sitting at the table. And Newton's gravity
constant will be there too. And so will the speed of
light.

Because when you sit at your computer, and we are all
sitting at our computers now, you are at a machine which when it has the software capability will be
able to connect you to the physical world though not
just one system but through a theoretically
infinity variety of different systems of units.
This is what the units handling software of CAD
packages, which give a choice, does and it will
certainly get more common to have options. You will
connect your language and your mind THROUGH a freely
chosen system to nature and quantity and physical
reality. And what system your schoolteacher happened
to prefer when you were 8 years old will not matter.
Laws cannot prevent this. Or are not likely to in
my humble opinion. Unit handling software is not a
big deal it just needs to be made a little more
flexible transparent and user-friendly and be
incorporated into a wider range of applications.
Or so I think.

So when I sit down to write I set the fundamental constants of nature to what I want (you may perhaps not
do that unless you have a good math package or design
package but you WILL) and believe me I do not set
the speed of light to be 299792458 meters per
second! I'm not such a dodo that I would want to work
in metric and have the speed of light be that! Then when I'm done I can change the results to any system that I think would please whoever might read the
result. So I can put it in metric then if I choose,
or give a little parenthetical translation.

[snore]

[snore]

[snore]

... Uh, what was that ?

Ralf

cant argue with someone who
is asleep. Guess I'll turn in too

L

Sorry about the chocolates... I must have been a bit absent-minded. I meant sugar of course.

And indeed Leonard, I grew up saying kilometres and kilos, and frankly, I like it !

Conrad - Where do you live? Not the UK otherwise whenever you gave directions to anyone you'd just get a blank stare.

Reality bites

Hi Conrad, hi SteveH, I just woke up and coffee
not sugar is what matters now.
NO PROBLEM about the chocolates Conrad.
Also I am glad to hear someone say they LIKE saying
kilometers and kilos. I wonder what the feeling is.
Language should feel good at least sometimes (although
the reasons aren't clear why it does.)

Do you ever say "zoll" and "pfund" or some other
linguistic equivalents? Do you know if there are
Swedish or Danish or Dutch etc. equivalents of
"pfund" in use?

Re: Dear Leonard June 2 2002, 11:37 AM

Sorry about the chocolates... I must have been a bit absent-minded. I meant sugar of course.

And indeed Leonard, I grew up saying kilometres and kilos, and frankly, I like it !



steveh

Re: Dear Leonard June 2 2002, 1:08 PM

Conrad - Where do you live? Not the UK otherwise whenever you gave directions to anyone you'd just get a blank stare.

Reality bites

Let me put it this way, I use kilometres as much as I can... which is, unfortunately, not much...

Incidentally, that's why I like the continent.

Conrad I think your message was directed
to SteveH but he seems not to be around and
it is getting late in the evening your(?) time
so I will answer.

It is nice to encounter someone who understands having
a definite taste in language who is also on the
kilometers side of the issue. I don't know why I
imagined that you grew up saying metric but I'm
glad you did and still like to think in km even
though you may be living who knows in England where
they say miles.

It bothers me when people act as if they are numb
to language and that all is the same and only some
kind of imagined economic self-interest matters. It is like the world is granulated sugar to them instead
of chocolate. I can not understand that.

But I certainly can feature your loving the measure
of kilometers and actually enjoying a trip to the
continent especially on account of the fact that the
signs are in km.

Yesterday I watched a film "Utz" which was a joint
production of the BBC and the corresponding German
entity and which takes place in Prague. It is a little
known film yet I enjoyed it more than any hollywood
product I have seen in a long time. Really excellent.
It is the story of a Baron von Utz who is serious
about Meisen porcelain figurines and his friend the
scientist who is serious about Wooly Mammoths. Their
dedication inspires emulation.

Why do you bother arguing about units with people
on the message board?

To get Steve's attention you could try writing
something in the "message title" blank.

Re: Dear Leonard June 2 2002, 7:24 PM

Let me put it this way, I use kilometres as much as I can... which is, unfortunately, not much...

Incidentally, that's why I like the continent.

Conrad, you say: "
Let me put it this way, I use kilometres as much as I can... which is, unfortunately, not much...
Incidentally, that's why I like the continent. "

I really find it hard to believe that the pleasure you get when travelling to Europe (/the continent) is derived from signs that have the letters "km" on them. I go to France for the cuisine and history, holland for the friendly natured locals and beautiful waterways, spain for the sun, italy for the food and history, austria for the skiing, portugal for the sun and people (the list goes on). I have to say that when I do go to these countries I don't look at the "km" signs and say "sigh, I wish they were miles". Are you sure you meant to say what you posted?

Incidently, because imperial signs are unique to Britain, I've had europeans of many different countries tell me that they like to see those odd (to them) miles and yards! It makes it part of their experience and tend to be horrified that some UK people would like to see an end to them. (BTW some "metrifools" think that visitors laugh at those signs! -lack of a real sense of humour me thinks )