I had the opportunity today to quiz a few high-school students to see how much (or how little) they knew about weights and measures. The group comprised three boys and two girls, aged 13 through 15.

I started on something simple: How many inches in a foot? At least three had no idea, although one did at least say "That's about an inch, isn't it?", holding his thumb and finger an inch or so apart. He then guessed "About ten." One of the boys got the correct answer after about half a minute of careful thought. I asked him how tall he was and he replied instantly "5 foot 2."

How many feet to a yard? I got answers varying from 1 up to about 60. How many yards in a mile? I might as well have been asking how many Martian zygolmeters made up a Venusian slogitar! All I got was wild guesses.

I asked if anyone knew how many furlongs in a mile? By this point I really expected completely blank looks, but surprisingly one of the boys instantly answered 8. Turns out his grandfather follows the horses rather a lot! I had to tell him that a furlong was 220 yards, and he eventually managed to work out 1760 yards per mile. It took nearly five minutes and a whole sheet of paper to do it, though, and he initially came up with 176 yards.

I moved on to weight. How many ounces in a pound? Wild guesses again: 2, 3, 8, 20, 100! Not one knew 16 oz = 1 lb.

Pints and gallons? Ha! Not a hope. 1 1/2 pints to a gallon, 100 pints per gallon, I heard it all.

One of the boys said he'd never heard of an acre. This is despite living in the wilds of rural Norfolk!

I turned to metric. How many grams per kilogram? They all jumped in fairly quickly there with 1000. Meters in a kilometer? 1000. How many centimeters to a meter? They got 100, but with rather less certainty.

How many milliliters in a liter? Mumbles and puzzled looks. They eventually decided on 10,000. Wrong!

I didn't have time to go into any greater detail, but this short session was certainly illuminating.

In my opinion, how well you know conversion factors is, at best, a very poor indicator of how well you know the system. Questions such as how much water does this bottle hold? How far away is the wall? How much does this TV weigh? - and requesting the answer in both an imperial and a metric unit, would be a much better indicator of how much knowledge they have about the use of the system rather than how many numbers they can memorize.

I'll be working at the same place again tomorrow. If I get a chance, I'll try putting these sort of questions to them and see how well they can estimate.

Hi, I'm Bryan Parry and have come to this forum to tell you that *EVERYBODY* (!!!!!) knows how many ounces there are to the pound, how many yards there are to the mile and how many fluid ounces there are to the pint, etc...

BTW: Everybody who doesn't believe me ought to be shot dead.

I was only joking, Steveh... ;-)

I hear you connie, i hear you!

Paul, what you need to do is to ask kids at that age how big is a [inch, foot, yard, metre, cm, etc] and get them to show you by holding their hands out.

Similarly ask them to pour out a pint or a litre.

For longer distances (mile/km) ask how far they think they have to travel to get to school, in each unit.

At that age descriptives are more important than, say, how many decimetres in a metre.

Ask the boy-acre if he's heard of an hectare.

"One of the boys got the correct answer after about half a minute of careful thought. I asked him how tall he was and he replied instantly "5 foot 2.""

This bears out Andy's theory about familiarity with a popular use of a system rather than with the system itself.

Indeed Ross, it's all about learning some sizes and standard numbers by heart.

"Similarly ask them to pour out a pint or a litre."

I suggest you try that one yourself Steve.

Volume is very hard to estimate no matter what the units.

I didn't get a chance to see them last trip. I'm going back there to do some work next week, so I'll pursue the matter then if I get the opportunity.

"Similarly ask them to pour out a pint or a litre"

I believe it is quite easy to imagine this.

A pint is a handy size that you see on the breakfast table or in the pub.
Yes, I know its a "rather British thing" but it does allow familiarity.

By the way - I'm not advocating that kids should have a pint in the pub (just incase a certain "abuse" person is listening!!!)

SteveH: "By the way - I'm not advocating that kids should have a pint in the pub"

Why not? It would probably do them a lot less harm than a session of "politically correct" indoctrination in their school's new "Citizenship" classes! ;)

I won't hear anything against citizenship education, which is essential.

re (Ross): "I won't hear anything against citizenship education, which is essential".

REPLY: That's a pity, then, because you'll miss a good little critique of citizenship education at:

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk~iits/newalliance/citizensh.htm


I believe, Citizen Ross, that Chairman Mao Tse Tung and 'Uncle' Joe Stalin were very keen on 'citizenship education'

Tony,

Wrong site address. It's:

http://www.iits.dircon.co.uk/newalliance/citizensh.htm

That "NEW ALLIANCE" logo is odd. No trace of West Britain, but they've managed to cram in the Shetland Isles.

Tony, I can see York, Canterbury, and the other twenty-two teaching citizenship. But the United Kingdom???? I thought the United Kingdom taught kingsmanship. Just as the United Commonwealth taught republicanism.

A citizen is a citizen, at site:

http://www.weights-and-measures.com

And topic:

Common Law

Ross wrote

<<
I won't hear anything against citizenship education, which is essential.
>>

We had citizenship classes at school (in South Africa). We were taught Apartheid propaganda. I am therefore very wary of citizenship classes.

<<
"Similarly ask them to pour out a pint or a litre"

I believe it is quite easy to imagine this.
>>

It depends on the shape of the container.

E.g. Imagine a straight sided jug 2 3/4 ins in diameter and 6 ins heigh. It holds about one pint.

Compare it with another jug slightly larger say 8 ins heigh and 3 1/2 ins in diameter. Clearly it holds more but how much more?

Answer about 2 pints, i.e. double the capacity of the smaller one. Most people wouldn't guess this by comparing the two vessels.

I think there is a serious problem when a majority of our population could not be certain of the procedure for making a new law, namely that a Bill must pass through both Houses of Parliament. Some people think that the Government changes the law by issuing press releases. That is why we need citizenship education.

Citizenship and politics are two differnet things.
In a politics class (sometimes titled Government), you learn how the government works. In a citizenship class (at least the kind I have heard about), you learn this material in the context of an average citizen - for example, you don't learn how a law is made, because this has nothing to do with the average citizen, but you do learn how to listen to campaign speeches, vote, interpret poll results, and so on. The point is to get people involved in politics, as opposed to a government class, which is more academic.
Someone please correct me if "citizenship" in Britain is something different.

re (Bud): "Someone please correct me if 'citizenship' in Britain is something different"

REPLY:

Below are some contemporaneous notes I made on a meeting some 18 months or so ago in Harlow. As can be seen, I was writing from a eurosceptic point of view for a eurosceptic audience.

I have since learnt quite a lot more about citizenship education.

There is a very real issue about what is taugt and what is not taught in these classes. Citizenship education is not neutral. If I were devising some classes on 'citizenship', it would cover very different topics. I would of course include a discussion on why, in 1981, under the Nationality Act, the term 'British Subject' was dropped and replaced by the term 'British Citizens'. I was born a British subject of Her Majesty [well, actually of King George VI] and wish to remain so. I shall probably end up becoming a Citizen of the European Union very much against my will. My notes of the meeeting follow:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CITIZENSHIP: Notes on a Meeting in Harlow

Held on Monday 13 May 2002


This seminar was organised by Harlow Civic Trust with a grant (amount not stated) from the European Social Fund.

This was to discuss how Harlow could best contribute to the government’s programme for education in ‘Citizenship’. Most invitees were local schoolteachers and members of Harlow Civic Society. It was held specifically to look at developing the idea of citizenship in Harlow and producing a local booklet on citizenship to supplement the national material.

The Department of Education and Skills’ teachers’ material for the programme of citizenship education for ‘Key Stages’ 3 (Years 7-9; ages 11-13) and 4 (Years 10-11; ages 14-15) were available.

The ones for Key Stages 1 (Years 1-3; ages 5-7) and 2 (years 4-6; ages 8-10) were not yet available. Each of the four photos on the front cover were suitably multiracial.

I was able to make a note of all the topic heads for Key Stages 3 and 4:

Key Stage 3

1. Citizenship: What’s it all about?
2. Crime
3. Human Rights
4. Britain – A Diverse Society?
5. How the Law Protects Animals; A Local-to-Global Study
6. Government, Elections and Voting
7. Local democracy
8. Leisure and sport in the local community
9. The Significance of the Media in Society
10. Citizenship and Geography: Debating a Global Issue
11. Citizenship and History: Why is it so Difficult to Keep the Peace in the World Today?
12. Citizenship and History: Why did Women and Some Men have to Struggle for the Vote in Britain? What is the Point of Voting Today?
13. Citizenship and Religious education: How do we deal with Conflict?
14. Developing Skills of Democratic Participation
15. Crime and safety Awareness – A Whole-School Multi-Agency Approach
16. Celebrating Human Rights – Citizenship Activities for the Whole school
17. School Linking
18. Developing Your School Grounds
19. Review Unit 19: Assessing progress and Recognising Achievement at the end of Key Stage 3

Plus:
Citizenship through English
Citizenship through Mathematics
Citizenship through Science
Citizenship through Design and Technology
Citizenship through Information and Communication Technology
Citizenship through History
Citizenship through Modern Foreign Languages
Citizenship through Art and Design

Kay Stage 4

1. Human Rights
2. Crime – Young People and car Crime
3. Challenging Racism and Discrimination
4. How and Why are Laws made?
5. How the economy Functions?
6. Business and Enterprise
7. Talking Point – Planning a Community Event
8. Producing the News
9. Consumer Rights and Responsibilities
10. Rights and Responsibilities in the World of work
11. Europe – Who Decides?
12. Global Issues; Local Action

Introduction by a Local Secondary School Teacher

Mrs B, a well-known local teacher, introduced the seminar. She’s been to two national conferences where the ‘Citizenship Education’ programme and the concepts behind it have been introduced. She had been impressed by the thinking and work that had been done with the whole project.

She referred to a major report on citizenship by Bernard Crick.

She highlighted some of the key values the government was trying to promote through the programme:

1. Tolerance
2. Concern for Human Rights
3. Willingness to be Open to Changing Opinion

Fostering a common national identity, a cohesive nation and patriotism were not listed.

She referred to source material which included:
“Citizenship: A Teacher’s Guide”
“The Challenge of Citizenship Education”
“The Why and How of Citizenship Education for Governors, Heads and Practitioners”
“The Channel 4 Black and Asian History Map”
“Kick Racism out of Football Campaign”
“Show Racism the Red Card”
Most of these are produced by or available from CSV Education for Citizenship.

Also visit the Department of Education and Skills website: www.dfes.gov.uk/citizenship

She said she was awash with piles of material on citizenship which had been arriving in brown envelopes almost daily; she hadn’t had time even to look at them.

Citizenship Key Stages 3 and 4 are compulsory from September, and Key Stages 1 and 2 will become compulsory as soon as practicable. Citizenship classes must take up 5% of the school timetable, which was reckoned to be about 1 hour 20 minutes; two 40-minute lessons a week. Much of the material is already being covered in Personal and Social Education Classes (PSE).

I had time to write out a few sentences from the Teachers’ Guide that caught my eye:

“Older students will help younger students address bullying, racism and sexual health”

“Students know the importance of the right to a fair trial and recognise the role of the Human Rights Act 1998 in supporting this” [!]

“Students are aware of the importance of the Human Rights Act 1998. They realise that human rights legislation is underpinned by common values”

“Pupils find out why it is important to have charters that are international for human rights”

“How and why did the Holocaust happen?” [No mention of 30 million people being killed in Communist Russia]

“Pupils could organise a Human Rights Day”

“Pupils could celebrate human rights on one of the following days:

10 December - International Human Rights Day
9 May - Europe day
27 January - Holocaust Memorial Day

“Discuss the benefits and challenges of living in a diverse society” (Key Stage 3; Unit 4)

“Students will recognise diversity and understand that it is positive and a strength to celebrate” (Key Stage 3; Unit 4) [Tell that to the people of Oldham and Burnley!]

“Students will build a class display of individual identities and the local community. Does it reflect the cultural diversity of Britain? Why is it important to recognise and celebrate all identities?” (Key Stage 3; Unit 4)

“What does it mean to be British?”
“In pairs, pupils will discuss what makes a ‘global citizen’”

“Pupils will choose someone of international standing and test then against the ‘global citizen’ criteria. To what extent is he or she a global citizen?”

“Pupils will appreciate some of the possible consequences of low turnout” (Key Stage 3; Unit 6) [!]

“In local democracy, pupils will learn about local government, regional government, central government, European government and youth Parliaments [No mention of the monarchy, yet mention of regional government which is not here yet!]

“Pupils will learn about the diversity of national regional, religious and ethnic identities in the United Kingdom and the need for mutual respect and understanding”

“Pupils will learn about the world as a global community, and the political, economic, environmental and social implications of this, and the role of the European Union, the Commonwealth, and the United Nations”

“Pupils will learn about the wider issues and challenges of global interdependence and responsibility, including sustainable development”

IMPRESSIONS

The teachers present all through this seminar though Citizenship Development was a good development which had been carefully prepared and thought out by the government. No teacher present could see any disadvantages.

Teacher seem to be short of ideas on how to bring this all to life for pupils. When I suggested that outside people with controversial views could be brought into stimulate debate, there was a good response.

I don’t think we will make much headway against citizenship education with leaflets. But we might by getting people into the classes to talk about such issues as British identity, immigration, the rights of a British citizen, how our rights and freedoms have been gained through our history – especially if the person knows how to communicate with children and make a session interesting. Anyone who feels up to this should ideally contact the lead teacher and/or governor to discuss input. Each school is required to nominate a governor who will be responsible for ensuring that National Curriculum’s requirements on Citizenship Education are met.

One teacher queried whether pupils would be interested in all of the topics and whether they had to do it all. There was a quick response from another teacher: “It’s in the National Curriculum so you’ve got to do it all and cross off each bit when you’ve done it. The School Inspector will be paying special attention to this so you can’t avoid it”.

[Question: What scope is there for a pupil to discover that the Human Rights Act has been more of a disaster than a success in its first two years of operation? – giving increased rights to, e.g. criminals and international terrorists, interfering in the running of our armed forces etc. Wouldn’t it be better to encourage children to discuss what are the basic human rights and how these can best be met, including a specific discussion of habeas corpus and jury trial. I didn’t find that anywhere in the citizenship booklets – nor did I find the topic: ‘ transferring power away from Westminster to Brussels’]


T Bennett


_____
ENDS

There's certainly something about that synopsis of "citizenship classes" that doesn't sit at all well with me.

How about that suggested list of dates? If we're talking about BRITISH citizenship, then wouldn't it be appropriate to suggest St. George/Andrew/David/Patrick as suitable days as well?

It grates on my nerves especially when we see mention of "global citizenship", followed by a diatribe which is clearly EU-biased and glosses over or totally ignores the rest of the world beyond the boundaries of Europe.

Ross: " think there is a serious problem when a majority of our population could not be certain of the procedure for making a new law, namely that a Bill must pass through both Houses of Parliament. Some people think that the Government changes the law by issuing press releases."

Part of the problem that many of us see is that this is no longer the case. Many laws in the U.K. are now translated directly from E.U. Regulations into law by Whitehall civil servants.

At no point have they touched upon the supposed democratic processes in Parliament. To a large extent, Britain is simply no longer a democratic country.

<<
Plus:
Citizenship through English
Citizenship through Mathematics
Citizenship through Science
Citizenship through Design and Technology
Citizenship through Information and Communication Technology
Citizenship through History
Citizenship through Modern Foreign Languages
Citizenship through Art and Design
>>

Can you please clarify/provide examples for the above? Most of them make no sense to me.

Bud,

It make little sense to me either, though when I was at school in South Africa in the 1950's and 1960's, I was taught "Citizenship through history", otherwise known as "Apartheid Propaganda".

In pre-war Germany this came under the ambit of Josef Goebbels and was called "Propaganda".

The "EU" certainly has great bed-fellows!

"In a politics class (sometimes titled Government), you learn how the government works."

The problem is that we have not have such things of late.

Citizenship is about issues of democracy and the place of the individual within it, including democratic and legal processes. It is scandalous that in the past pupils have been left to educate themselves about these matters.

What happens when one is arrested for a crime? This should certainly be in the curriculum.

Human rights are an essential part of citizenship education. Children must be taught what their rights are and I deplore the actions of those who would detract from this. We must all be educated in how to take an active role in society.

The problem as ever is that these lessons become a glorified PSE programme where an untrained teacher hands out photocopies from a textbook written in 1988 and lets children get on with the wordsearch on the reverse.

I strongly believe that schools should take an active role in teaching citizenship, sex and relationships (sketchy at best, and the latter part is woeful), and things such as first aid. Education is the basis of society, and it must be relevant to it.

There are certainly things which would be of great value if included in the curriculum.

Basic first aid courses, for example, would be of far greater practical value than memorizing lists of the Kings and Queens of England from 1066 to 1800. (Not that the latter wouldn't be helpful to someone going on to become a historian.)

I remember that one high school I attended for about a year when I was 11-12 had a class they called "EOT", standing for "Every One Thing." I remember it only vaguely, but it was a catch-all class covering almost any topic of this sort which arose.

What I would object to most strongly, however, is a class which presents a very biased, pro-EU, view of the world, which is what appears to be in the curriculum for modern citizenship classes.

As for knowing our rights, it probably won't matter in a few more years. According to the EU charter, we have none.

Citizenship through history makes sense (somewhat). But citizenship through mathematics? Citizenship through art and design? Is that where they teach you to draw pictures of your political leaders or what?

Maybe Citizenship through mathematics is where they try to force us all to be good future EU-citizens by teaching only metric multiples and omitting basic tables and other useful math? ;)

Bud, for some years there has been concern in Britain over the hidden agenda of some education departments and local councils in this country. Places such as the Boroughs of Camden and Lambeth in London are notoriously "looney," throwing away millions of taxpayers' mooney on promoting controversial issues.

Camden once spent who knows how much putting up signs on every other lamp-post in the borough proclaiming "Camden is a nuclear-free zone." They have sent drug-addicted muggers on all expenses paid trips to Jamaica and similar places, "because they had a deprived childhood."

These boroughs also seem to encourage schools to promote homosexuality, affirmative action, and all the other claptrap you would associate with a socialist doctrine.

You should see some of the children's booklets produced with EU funding that are used to promote the EU and all its institutions.

"These boroughs also seem to encourage schools to promote homosexuality"

Only five days without section 28, and these arguments have emerged again!

As for 'promoting' the EU, there is a difference between promotion of it and education about it. Maybe the Europhobes are worried that, with proper education about the EU and its institutions, their scaremongering will be revealed for what it actually is?

Five days? A friend of my late mother (who used to be a teacher herself until 1980) was complaining about this 10 years ago.

As for the pro-EU literature, see if you can find a children's book in your local library titled "The Strawberry Ice Cream Wars." It is nothing but pro-EU propaganda from beginning to end.

"Five days? A friend of my late mother (who used to be a teacher herself until 1980) was complaining about this 10 years ago."

What I mean is that it has only taken five days since the repeal of section 28 for me to hear an argument for its restoration.

I'm sure someone is going to bring up "captain europe" at some point.

Have a search for it on yahoo or something.

It's sinister to the extreme - especially the way they paint the "baddie".

Personally I think parents should be aware that this sort of stuff is out there.

I've not heard about that one Steve. A quick search hasn't revealed anything.

Could you tell us some more?

Nevermind..... I've done some more searching and found "Captain Euro."

The propaganda mechanisms of the EU are becoming very sinister.

re (Ross): "As for 'promoting' the EU, there is a difference between promotion of it and education about it. Maybe the Europhobes are worried that, with proper education about the EU and its institutions, their scaremongering will be revealed for what it actually is?"

REPLY: Absolutely the contrary. Time after time, eurosceptics have challenged eurozealots to public debate and they have frequently run away from it. The E.U. literature that invades schools is partisan and totally lacks balance.

'Proper education' about the E.U. would include:

* its fundamentally undemocratic nature Part I - unelected Commissioners you can't vote out of office

* its fundamentally undemocratic nature Part II - the fact that its Parliament is a talking-shop only and has no powers

* the lies and deception that have accompanied every transfer of powers from national governments to Brussels

* the benefits of national rather than supranational government

* the huge net cost to Britain of E.U. membership

* the E.U.'s plans to end trial by jury, 'habeas corpus' and other elements of our criminal justice system that keep Britain free from state tyranny

etc.

______________________________________________________

re (Paul EOS): As for the pro-EU literature, see if you can find a children's book in your local library titled "The Strawberry Ice Cream Wars." It is nothing but pro-EU propaganda from beginning to end.

REPLY: I am almost certain that the book is called "The Raspberry Ice Cream Wars".

It features some nasty people who were associated with a nasty bygone age when people had borders. These people are caricatured in cartoon style as ugly, dirty, aggresive and, er, plain wrong. By contrast, the nice guys who dismantled national boundaries and borders are presented as, well, handsome heroes.

'Raspberry Ice Cream Wars' is an expensively-produced booklet, around 48 pages long, full colour, which was translated into every E.U. language and distributed througout E.U. schools *except in one country* - the United Kingdom. That is why you're most unlikely to find it in the library. There was an outcry from eurosceptics and eventally the government conceded that it was indeed just too biased for it to be circulated.

Many objectors noted the similarity between this booklet and Goebbels' propaganda in the 1930s. One of Goebbels' main aims was to caricature Jews, as he did in films and in books, as greedy, nasty, ugly etc. His successful propaganda without a doubt helped pave the way for the subsequent terrible crimes against the Jews.

In the same way, with the help of some of today's media*, eurosceptics are beginning to be characterised in the same way. Words like 'xenophobic' and 'europhobic', which imply a serious illness, are used, even by some on this bulletin board.

'Raspberry Ice Cream Wars' is but one example among many of pro-E.U. biased literature.

On Saturday, I organised a meeting in Lincolnshire at which one of the speakers was Rev. Philip Foster from Cambridge. He was one of those who protested about 'Raspberry Ice Cream Wars'. Amongst his protest letters was one sent to one Mr Geoffey Martin (an Irishman), the then Director of the European Commission in London.

He got a dusty answer. Mr Martin wrote an offensive reply, concluding by adding that: "In view of your comments I have today written to your Bishop to ask him to review whether you are suitable to carry on as a Vicar of your Parish"


* It is not perhaps that surprising that the BBC, once famed for its independence and trustworthiness, now favours E.U. integration at every opportunity. It accepted from the European Commission, two years ago, a loan of £40 million and associated grants on condition that it promoted the E.U. in at least some of its arts programmes, and generally promotes European integration. Maybe that's why on a BBC Radio 4 play recently, when one Englishman was heard describing another Englishman as mad, instead of saying 'a few sandwiches short of a picnic' or 'a few bricks short of a full load', the speaker was heard to say 'a few cents short of a euro'. As if!!

Tony: "It accepted from the European Commission, two years ago, a loan of £40 million and associated grants on condition that it promoted the E.U. in at least some of its arts programmes, and generally promotes European integration."

Hehe... another conspiracy theory that Tony heard about through the grapevine... (Number 5,698 already !)

Keep them comin', Anthony !

warning - the following link is both hilarious and sinister, quite a combination!


http://www.captaineuro.com/

re (Conrad): "yet another of Tony's conspiracy theories...keep 'em coming..."

[This statement from Conrad was in response to my posting wic informed this board that the BBC obtained a loan of £40 million from the European Union on condition that it generally promoted further European integration].

By the way, Conrad, I never speak of conspiracies but I do say there are highly influential people out there with *agendas*

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

REPLY: Conrad, in a roundabout way, I find your comment encouraging. One of the tasks we have on the eurosceptic side is to convince those who had been fed hundreds of lies and deceptions about the E.U. is that they are not beig told the truth.

Your reaction to the truth - 'conspiracy theory again' - is quite typical. Yet the facts invariably confirm what the eurosceptics are saying.

In fact, on searching the internet, I find that my figure of £40 million loaned by the E.U. to the BBC was indeed an *understatement*. The true figure is over £60 million. The loan came from the European Investment Bank (see below).

An independent media monitoring company, Minotaur Media Monitoring, has carried out six research projects monitoring BBC output on the euro and the European Union - and on each of the six occasions their studies have established serious bias by the BBC in favour of the arguments for European integration - see links below (some of the studies were commissioned by Global Britain):

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 12-16 ~ Europhile bias at the BBC
".... The BBC have taken 96 Million Euros from the EU Investment Bank and a condition of the taking of this loan is to "further the objectives of EU Community Policies in the Construction of the European Union...."
From a report on the conference at Canterbury Hall, University of London on May 31st

...and we have also recently been directed to the following website: http://www.bbcbias.org/ - where former Soviet dissident, Vladimir Bukovsky, has joined forces with Jonathan Miller, the Sunday Times journalist campaigning for an end to the anachronistic television licence.

See also http://www.globalbritain.org/BBC/BBC%20Front%20page.htm for speeches and letters on the subject of BBC "europhile" bias.

Tony: "I am almost certain that the book is called "The Raspberry Ice Cream Wars"."

Sorry, my goof. It must have been over a year ago I read the book.

Tony: "That is why you're most unlikely to find it in the library."

I found the book in the main public library in Great Yarmouth, Norfolk. It was in the reference area on the "Information on Europe" shelf. Maybe Gt. Yarmouth Borough Council is particularly pro-EU ????

Check the road signs ;)