The message below was received on Monday by the Metric Martyrs Campaign.

The sender, Mr John M Jones, is an employee in the Translation Section of the European Commission.

He is not employed to air his views on the metric v Imperial debate, nor, so far as one knows, is he authorised to use swear words from his European Commission computer (Neil Herron has kindly deleted part of the word beginning 'f' for sensitive readers of this board).

The Director of the Metric Martyrs Campaign, Neil Herron, has asked for an investigation by the President of the European Commission.

Nice people over there, eh?

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Original message

From: "John M. Jones" john.jones@cec.eu.int
To: metricmartyrs@btconnect.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:55 PM

"youre a bunch of f***ing luddites. Metric has to win cos thats what we learnt at school. Long live England. long live metric, with 5 metricunits names after Uk scientists and 2 Uk directors of the metre bureau. The imperialists are dead in the water.

ps: what in hell are you actually defending?

look at great countries like australia and new zealand if you cant stand europe.

you luddites in england make me sick"


_____

ENDS (fortunately!)

hmmmm... Does this sort of rant look familiar to anyone else?

I know where you're going with that Niles, but personally I don't think it's either of them!

Nice chap though - Mr Jones. Shame about the cultural background behind the name! :-(

I can totally understand someone losing their patience with the likes of Neil Herron - who lets be honest is a f***ing luddite

But there is no excuse for someone in Mr Jones position reacting in such a childish and unprofessional way

Andy,

you appear to "not like" someone you "don't know".

Bizzare

Steve that is utter rubbish.

So you never have opinions about people in the public eye?

My opinion of Neil Herron is no different to your opinion of Geoffrey Howe

But whereas Old boring-boots once controlled how much money we had in our pockets and thus commands the accolade of being close to the state, Neil is just the "little man" trying as hard as possible to be an irritant to the big EU monster.

And actually doing quite well.


They are on very different platforms.

Sounds like double standards to me

<<<Neil is just the "little man" trying as hard as possible to be an irritant to the big EU monster.>>>

and wasting government time and tax payers money for a pointless and selfish cause

<<<And actually doing quite well.>>>

eh? I thought the metric martyrs were nothing more than a source of ridicule these days.

I think the above email confirms how seriously he is taken!

"Sounds like double standards to me"

Ok fair point(ish).

"and wasting government time and tax payers money for a pointless and selfish cause"

I wonder what proportion of GDP he currently costs the UK?

"eh? I thought the metric martyrs were nothing more than a source of ridicule these days."

Hmm, not quite - they've highlighted the daft rules that have been set. Also - I think you'll find that most people would still tutt or voice disapproval of making criminals out of ordinary folk for saying lb/oz. Lets not got down that one though, we've recycled it far too many times.


"I think the above email confirms how seriously he is taken!"

I think your comments confirms that some people know quite a lot of what Neil Herron is doing/has done. Almost like you take note and follow his doings!

;-)

<<<I think you'll find that most people would still tutt or voice disapproval of making criminals out of ordinary folk for saying lb/oz.>>>

Yes they would, and rightly so, but most people now realise that this was never the case.

re (Andy): "...I can totally understand someone losing their patience with the likes of Neil Herron - who let's be honest is a f***ing luddite..."


REPLY: Is there a connection between being in favour of metric compulsion and using foul and abusive language?

There certainly seems to be on this bulletin board, any way

And that, Tony, was the point of my original response. I am seeing a trend among the 'arguing' techniques employed by the 'government compulsion' crowd. We should just ignore them until they grow up.

re (Niles): "I am seeing a trend among the 'arguing' techniques employed by the 'government compulsion' crowd. We should just ignore them until they grow up..."


REPLY: Niles, we can't, unfortunately.

They have just taken away our right to 'habeas corpus', granted under the Habeas Corpus Act 1679, 326 years ago. And New Labour's election slogan is 'Forwards, not back"!

Giving people a criminal record for selling in pounds and ounces was one slip down the slippery slope towards totalitarianism.

And today's creation, after 326 years*, of the facility for a British citizen to be locked away on 'reaonable suspicion', not knowing the charge against thim, not knowing the evidence, not knowing how long he will be detained for, is another big slip.

If there are dangerous people around, which there certainly are, mostly Muslim thugs and extremists, they should be brought before a Court and charged with, e.g., acts preparatory to terrorism, conspiracy to commit acts of terrorism, membership of or close association with proscribed organisations or, if you're a British citizen who's gone off to an Al Qa'eda training camp in Afghanistan and fought against the British army, treason.

And let's do what the Americans do - allow intercept evidence in certain categories of cases.

Niles, I will treat you as my 'agony uncle' and confide in you on this board. I freely confess that the removal of habeas corpus today - after I had hoped that right-thinking members of the House of Lords would stand firm - has depressed me greatly - I don't even feel like engaging in a robust debate with Mr Beranger, even knowing I would win it, as usual.

It is getting very lonely out here with no-one else seeing us slide into totalitariansim. What can I do?



* Actually, we've more or less had 'habeas corpus' since Magna Carta. The Habeas Corpus Act was more of a consolidating piece of legislatiom than one creating new law

Tony Bennett wrote

<<
The Director of the Metric Martyrs Campaign, Neil Herron, has asked for an investigation by the President of the European Commission.

Nice people over there, eh?
>>

Tony - why are you pre-judging the findings on the President of the EU?

It is of course possible that this message was written by somebody impersonating an EU employee. Most employers have codes of conduct regarding the use of their internet services by employees - usually bringing the employer into disrepute being a case for dismissal. Very few employees would be stupid enough to use language such as that which Mr Herron received when using their employer's internet connection.

If it transpires that Mr Jones does exist and that his job has been put in jeorpardy by someone impersonating him, I trust that Mr Herron will do the decent thing and cooperate with any investigation and possible criminal charges against the impersonator.

I checked to see if there was any reference to anybody called "John M Jones" who worked for the EU Commission. I found two references in the BBC Talking Points column to a "John M Jones" who gives his country of residence as UK/Belgium which I have reproduced below. There is no indiction as to where this John M Jones works, but given that he signs his country of residence as being UK/Belgium, one cannot dismiss the possibility that this man works at the EU Commission.

When I compare the style of writing of these extracts with the style of writing in the message that Mr Herron received, I doubt that they are from the same person. The messages given below are moderate in language, and in viewpoint, quite unlike the note that Mr Herron received.



**************** Extract 1 *****************
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/talking_point/debates/european/803248.stm
Tuesday, 4 July, 2000, 14:46 GMT 15:46 UK
Was the Schengen Agreement a mistake?
As the EU expands to the east in the next few years the problem will become more acute
John M. Jones, UK/ Belgium

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem in all of this is finding the right balance between detecting illegal immigrants and criminals and holding up bona fidae travellers and commercial freight. As the EU expands to the east in the next few years the problem will become more acute. Poland's eastern border with Russia will be an external EU frontier. What we need is much more co-operation between national police forces or, even better, a dedicated EU police division to combat illegal activities at external EU frontiers.
John M. Jones, UK/ Belgium

**************** Extract 2 *******************
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1156341.stm
Monday, 12 February, 2001, 13:23 GMT
Should British police carry guns?

Police in Belgium, where I live, are armed - and feared. Most of them look like something out of an American cartoon, but that is beside the point. British police are trusted and respected by the public. Those in London and other cities who need an armed response vehicle can call one up. This works very well in Britain, and I hope it stays that way.

Here in Belgium, transport police in the metro also carry guns! Can you image? The most likely criminal they face is someone without a ticket (ok, there's a bit of fighting now then, but you don't need a gun to control that). The transport policemen and women are also a body apart - not the kind of people you'd asked where to change trains. Don't let it happen in Britain.
John M. Jones, Belgium/UK

"The Director of the Metric Martyrs Campaign, Neil Herron, has asked for an investigation by the President of the European Commission.

Nice people over there, eh?"

One can't help but feel this is proving a bit of a god-send to the anti-metric campaigners.

A nice opportunity to embarass the EU Commission eh?

No matter that the mans's views and his actions have nothing to do with his employer (assuming he isn't an imposter that is).

Has Neil Herron checked through the headers on the e-mail he received? Remember it is not that hard to fake a return address.

Am I not right in saying that there was an ongoing "e-conversation" after the initial rude email?

This should prove it.

And by the way - there are rotten apples in every "cart".

Mind you - sometimes when you look at the EU you sometimes get the image that someone has gone around looking for rotten apples and filled a cart up!

Tony:

I knew someone was going to say that very thing as soon as I wrote my response. Ordinarily, I would be the person to say what you did. Unfortunately, I was too busy to explain my statement further.

I should have been a little more thorough in my statement. I guess what I really meant was that we need to educate the voters to simply ignore these sorts of people in that they are never to be taken seriously. The moment they hear a politician talking like this, or otherwise espousing tyranny, the voters should refuse to vote for that politician as a matter of course. Same goes for this sort of language from bureaucrats -- the moment you hear a bureaucrat spouting off the sort of nonsense you'd hear from a little tin dictator, a formal complaint should be lodged.

The real problem is that the public (state) education system is set up so that people don't actually learn that the government isn't really supposed to be tyrannical. So no one chaperones their politicians; they just assume that the government knows best. . . not realising that the government is made up of people; and other people are no more right or wrong about most things than you or I are.

Now, those of you who are new to these boards are probably asking yourselves what all this has to do with weights and measures. The answer to you question is that compulsory metrication is merely a symptom of a larger malady.

One of the most frightening phrases one can here is "we're from the government, and we're here to help."

Any updates on Mr-EU ?