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'IMPLICIT LICENCE'

One issue that surfaced during the 'Transco Signs' Trial was how Kent County Council approved the 'Traffic Management Plan submitted to them by Transco/McAlpine before pipeline-laying commenced. Transco/McAlpine's plan referred to hazard warning signs being erected at '100m', '200m', '400m' etc. away from the pipeline.

When my Solicitors Ronald Prior and Co challenged Kent County Council as to why they had rubber-stamped a Traffic Management Plan in which illegal metric signs were proposed, it took them quite a while to work out a justification.

It came on 28 March 2002 in a letter to Ronald Prior and Co from Mr Rob Wetherill, Principal Engineer (Operations), Highway Unit, Kent County Council, Gibson Building, Gibson Drive, Kings Hill, WEST MALLING, Kent ME19 4LZ e-mail: Rob.wetherill@tmbc.gov.uk.

Here it is verbatim:


"Signs on the highway would normally be expected to conform substantially to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1994.

Works entrance signs which do not comply with the statute would be permitted if they were not considered to be a hazard to road users. In agreeing to the use of signs at the meeting with McAlpne PPS JV, an implicit licence was given for the erection and maintenance of signs for the safety and assistance of road users. The use of wording which was different to [sic] that given in the statute, or the use of metric distances, would not be considered to detract from such an implicit licence".

TSRGD 1994, PARAGRAPH 8

Mr Wetherill seems to have been blissfully unaware of Paragraph 8 in Section 2 of the Traffic Signs Regualations and General Directions 1994, which states:

"Nothing in these Regulations shall be taken to limit the powers of the Secretary of State under Section 64 of the 1984 Act [Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 - ed.] to authorise the erection or retention of traffic signs of a character not prescribed by these Regulations".

In other words, the Secretary of State for Transport - and he alone - may, exceptionally, give express i.e. written permission for a traffic sign to be erected which is not prescribed by the TSRGD 1994.

That's a million miles from Mr Wetherill considering he has authority on behalf of Kent County Council to grant 'implicit' licences to transport companies to flout the Regulations.

SIGNS MUST BE IN MILES 'IN THEORY' - KENT C.C.

It's also worth quoting here a letter from Mr K Chaderton of McAlpine PPS JV, dated 12 July 2001 (11 days after the signs were removed) in which he said he had contacted Kent County Council who had told him that it was only "in theory" that road distance signs had to be in miles and yards!


T Bennett

The paragraph you quote from the TSRGD only says that the Secretary of State has the ultimate power. That does not mean that he/she can't delegate it to local authorities.

The DTR have already told you they are not interested, can't you take a hint?

Has the Secretary of State ever delegated his authority to County Councils like Kent? NO. That is why County Councils are required under Paragraph 8 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Regulations 1994 to get written authority for *any* sign that doesn't conform to them.

As for taking a hint, I think I'm quite reasonable at that and so are fellow-members of the Council of ARM. The 'hint' from the Department of Transport is: "We're going to do nothing whatsoever about metric signs unlawfully placed on the highway".

That is precisely why some of us look to the authority of Section 131(2) of the Highways Act 1980 to 'pull down' or 'obliterate' them

T Bennett

A friend drove through a certain country last weekend, noted for its nationism, and why not? she noticed many MORE metric signs than around the English counties and discussed such in a pub with very nationalist locals, well pleased that she had made an effort to learn their mother tongue. They claim support for metric and will bring it up wiht other members of their party, to ensure that they are seen in the world as pro-development and adnvancement of their people and not forced to use such ridiculous measures as something based on the length from an English King's nose to the tip of his arm. They feel quite strongly about that and other laws related to old England forcing irelevant matters into their lives, and I know you'll hear more of them. And what could be more irelevant than a long-dead King's nose and arms?!

And if you asked one of the locals where the pub is, he'd tell you in a lovely lilting accent: 'a couple of hundred yards down the road'. Ask him how tall he is and he'll say '5 foot 9'. Ask him his weight and he'll say '12 stone 8'.

T Bennett

And he'd even be able to translate all of this into his 'mother tongue'. What is the Welsh for kilogram, kilometre, decimetre, decilitre, centilitre, centimetre, millilitre and millimetre by the way?

'Ffyrkyn'

The hint I was trying to suggest is this:

If the Department of Transport is/remains the only authority that can give permission for metric signs but they are not concerned about them, that must mean that they would only rubber stamp them anyway even if the LA does apply in writing.

I wouldn't rely too much on that subsection of the highways act if I were you. It has already been rejected in court once, and if your appeal fails other authorities, such as Portsmouth, might start coming after you.

I would expect yokels to lilt similar answers the world over, even Japanese yokels and Dutch ones who use coloquial measure in their quaint ways. And no-one who is pro-metric would suggest they SHOULD not! If something is 30cm from me I say 'a foot away', but still think of it as 30cm, not how many of those barley corns it is based on! If it's a metre, I say a metre, not thoughts of King's noses and arms, thanks! If I want 1/2 a kilo, I ask for a pound, Matahari tells me the Dutch do all the time ( for 500g) and if prices were put 'per 1/2 kilo' it would be unoticible to anyone from 'price per pound' which is illegal and people still selling this way are showing children to have disregard for our laws, unfortunately ANY laws. Which is why this nonsense will soon be put to rest.
Ultimately, over time, even yokels anywhere learn the metric system and accept it- they should not be seen as stupid!
Welsh has indeed spellings for km etc, but the sound is the same as well as its meaning. Japan uses km, kg as its symbols (adopted by their govt, same reason as ours) but pronounces them in a Japanese way and still easily understood- 'kirogurammu', not bad seeing as they have their own 'alphabets and characters' of which the ROMAN one we use is alien.
On the subject of Rome- I feel we had 'km' before even the French, here in Britain (hope the papers get onto this scoop). Mile means 'mille' (thousand), have heard based on the 1000 double paces of a Roman soldier. A double pace would be about a metre or a yard, therefore the mile would have been about a kilometre ( 1000 metres). Again, nice and sensible and a clear example of the silly old inconsistent and difficult to justify, Imp system- when did something meaning a thousand become 'x'ridiculous and forgettable amount of feet or yards? Nuts!!

The roman mile was 1000 double paces or 2000 single paces (based on the standard marching pace of the roman infantry) and was consequently about a mile in length, not a kilometre. They even had people specially trained to pace out distances (with surprising accuracy).

Someone is talking absolute rubbish about Wales.

Wales is NOT nationalist (PD get a tiny loony vote).

Wales does NOT like metric - as can be read from a recent (welsh) opinion poll.

P.S. - yard - llath, mile - millitir.

Please do not post lies about the Welsh, we don't like it.

P.S. Actually I don't know what a metre/kilometre etc is in Welsh - I'd have to look it up. (in the same way I'd look up the Welsh for "pointless"!!!!)

P.S. The Welsh assembly was voted for by 20% of the Welsh public - there's nationalism for you!!!!

THanks for clearing up the 'mile', got you to say exactly what i wanted to read. The mile is not English, British, nor Imperial. Well, kind of, it is Imperial Rome!!! lovely, bet it was rigidly enforced on pain of death upon those legions of teeny-footed, short Italian boys who must have made there stride like doing the splits to get it to cover what we call now that 'thousand' double paces. Nothing new under the sun, hey?
Welsh use the spelling 'ch' for kilometre etc as there is no K in Welsh alphabet. So the Welsh Nationalists would not jump on anything to rid Wales of vestiges of examples of English Kings and silly ways? And they have no influence? Like having all the signs and public announcements made in Welsh too, even though you all speak ENGLISH! So, they really love having little bits of England in their midst? Tell that to the owners of burnt out cottages in Wales. Haha. they will jump on anything which shows they are smarter than the English and you will see.
Something for you all to wonder about for the long weekend. Enjoy it, I will. :)

Victoria: Don't be silly. The Roman mile is Roman. The British or statute mile is British. There is also a French mile, a Scottish mile and an Irish mile - all slightly different. Also a nautical mile. And in athletics, a metric mile (1600m). To suggest that the British mile isn't British is like insisting that the English language isn't English because people had invented other languages, such as the Greek language, long before.

The Roman stride was actually quite short (about two and a half feet) possibly to ensure that it was well within the capability of all their legionaires. Today, a typical Englishman's stride is about a yard.

VICTORIA's QUOTE: "Ultimately, over time, even yokels anywhere learn the metric system and accept it- they should not be seen as stupid!"

Whether one uses metric is not a matter of stupidity; it is a matter of choice. Never confuse understanding of a system with acceptance of it.

"Tell that to the owners of burnt out cottages in Wales" she says.

I thought as much, still living in the seventies!

Interesting point that Paul about the metric mile. It is worth noting that it is within 0.6% of the statute mile (1609.344 m).

So for the practical every purpose of distance signs the metre has a better relationship to the mile than the yard. For example 800m and 400m are 1/2 and 1/4 mile respectively to the same degree of accuracy as above.

But if imperial loving folk still insist on thinking in yards just remember that the metre is (as near as damn it) 10% longer than the yard. So 800m = 880yds, 400m = 440yds and so on. Easy!

However if you can't cope with that then just (mentally) substitue yard for metre. After all whats 10% between friends?

Have a happy Jubilee everyone. Rule Britannia and all that.

Sorry everyone, I mean't God save the Queen, not Rule Britannia.

I have a "jubilee hangover"

Ouch! [sore head]