.

Test your imagination with the following!

Imagine a country within the EU with:

- Full membership of the Eurozone with the Euro as its currency
- GDP growth of more than 4% this year (higher than the UK)
- The second highest GDP per capita in the 25 countries
- The lowest corporate tax in Europe & one of the lowest personal tax sytems in Europe (significantly lower than the UK)
- Is a net contributor to the EU
- Unemployment rate of just 4.6%
- With a trial by jury system
- Where cars drive on the left and the main language is English
- Which is completing its move towards complete metrification in January 2005
- Which is a small country with a population of just 4 million, yet which punches far above its weight in terms of European policy making and diplomacy.

Yes, you guessed it: 'The Irish Republic'

Interesting that so much talk is about "continental Europe", when there's an excellent example of how a country like us in so many ways, can succeed in Europe just on our doorstep in these western islands.

If such a small country like the ROI can run its own independent policy-making machine so successfully, (economy, tax etc), yet be an active member of the EU and Euro, canmove over to metrification without any notable public concern, with strong cultural and economic ties with the US - why not the UK too?

Surely we are brave enough to secure the word 'Great' in Britain, not as an ostracised island nation between two continents (or a poodle of George W. for that matter), but rather a shining example and strong driver for the rest of Europe by being IN Europe?

I hope this sparks debate from a fresh angle;-)

James B.

Indeed - I realised you were talking about the country with an overheating economy that the govt wants to cool down but cannot since there are no control on interest rates.

Lots of people bought Porches in the eighties didn't they - "what happened next", you could say.

Also, am I right in saying that there are nore irish in London than in Eire? Surely they'd be moving in droves back to this economic marvel in order to take advantage.

The moral of the story?

Anyone can make a list of good things - "perspective" is a far wiser direction to go in.

Nice try though, I have to admit.

P.S. Next time your back there, check out the scales they use in the butchers and green grocers.

SteveH wrote

<<
P.S. Next time your back there, check out the scales they use in the butchers and green grocers.
>>

Would you also please report on how much Tescos use Imperial measures in their Irish stores.

This is second hand from me (ie I've not been in an Ireland Tesco) but I believe their loose stuff is in foreign (metric) and the packed stuff is dual (since the packed stuff is what is sold in the UK and Eire).

I was originally referring to the private owned shops, which Eire has a lot of, as they haven't succumbed to the out-of-town faceless hypermarkets yet.

Have you been to Ireland?

I've been watching this little country for a while now in assessing whether the EU and indeed Euro is a flyer or not. I must say I'm very surprised with how my Euro scepticism has been diluted with the Irish example.

Regarding economics, the OECD (independent body) states that the ROI has 'successfully' overcome a rapidly growing economy without interest rates to control inflation. The country has managed to reduce its inflation from more than 4% in 2002 to just over 2% forecast for 2004. Thus, the overheating never became a problem. Not bad when you consider, its economy has recovered again to become the fastest growing in the EU (baltic states excepted)and unemployment is falling ...

Regarding butchers, some still use the imperial system, but metric is moving in all the time. The thing is the Irish don't seem too bothered about it - just progress they say. The changing of road distances (already 80% of signs are in metric), driving speeds and car speedometers will all change in Jan. 2005

Could it be that others are looking toward the future and grasping the challenges and the UK is looking the wrong way?

<<ROI has 'successfully' overcome a rapidly growing economy without interest rates to control inflation>>

Ask a young Irish couple, trying to buy their first home.

<<Regarding butchers, some still use the imperial system, but metric is moving in all the time>>

Even in Dublin this ain't happening - not in the "family owned styled" ones.

<<driving speeds and car speedometers will all change in Jan. 2005>>

Bejaysus! It's a miracle! Are you trying to say that speedometers with MPH will see the figures melt away and be replaced by km/h? Really?

<<Could it be that others are looking toward the future and grasping the challenges and the UK is looking the wrong way?>>

OR could it be someone pretending to once have a healthy euroscepticism has now been totally sold the idea of complying? Sounds a bit fishy to me.

Let me try it.

"I used to really love the idea of metric enforcement but now I realise that imperial is much much better".

Nah! Didn't work for me neither!

"Am I feeding, or being fed?" - some might ask!

P.S. Did you ever play the popular 90's PC game called "Lemmings".

Think "EU" as you conjure that image!

"Ask a young Irish couple, trying to buy their first home"

Good point. This is indeed the price of economic success. As you know exactly the same situation exists in London for a young couple buying for the first time. The UK and ROI are indeed economic models and 'grade A' students for the rest of the EU to follow. The bottom line is that economic success hasn't been stifled by the Euro, at least not in the ROI case.

"Are you trying to say that speedometers with MPH will see the figures melt away and be replaced by km/h? Really?"

Yes, strange as it sounds, apparently all new cars imported from Jan. 1st will have metric only dials. Although the current dials have both, you need vulture eyes to read the KPH - agreed! Still, this will model what was done in South Africa for example some years ago.

Irish Times(04.08.04): "Most car firms have opted to introduce kph-only speedometers in new cars. For car firms, the move to kph-only dials will cut costs and allow them to use the same "binnacle" or dials as on continental cars".

If we focus on the facts and issues rather than the emotion around it, one can get a more balanced view of exactly what's at stake here. Isn't that what our great British public deserve?

Just a thought - are you from the BIE group?

<<The bottom line is that economic success hasn't been stifled by the Euro>>

Yes it has, except for some areas of the Irish ecnomy.

"Are you trying to say that speedometers with MPH will see the figures melt away and be replaced by km/h? Really?"

<<Yes, strange as it sounds, apparently all new cars imported from Jan. 1st will have metric only dials. >>

Then you've never been to Ireland!
When you visit - check the age of the vehicles! (The Irish aren't very "vehicle-centric" - since they have very few roads!)

<<Although the current dials have both, you need vulture eyes to read the KPH - agreed!>>

Thus they should risk accidents by adopting units no-one has asked for and benefits no-one and can hardly be seen?

I'd like to ask why Ireland are spending their tax payers money on such a move but then I realise they are EU net-benefactors still (ie poorer than the avg eu state) and thus we, the germans and the french probably paid for it.

"Yes it has, except for some areas of the Irish ecnomy".

--- Which areas are stifled?

"Then you've never been to Ireland! When you visit - check the age of the vehicles! (The Irish aren't very "vehicle-centric" - since they have very few roads!)"

---- The average age of Irish vehicles in 2004 is 3 years, according to the Irish Govt. - perhaps you are referring to buses, which have an average age of 12 years?

"I'd like to ask why Ireland are spending their tax payers money on such a move but then I realise they are EU net-benefactors still (ie poorer than the avg eu state) and thus we, the germans and the french probably paid for it."

-- According to the latest European statistics, as released in December 2003:
Excerpt: "Britain is now the richest of the big European countries, measured by gross domestic product per capita — ahead of Germany, France and Italy — but several small countries are far richer.
After Luxembourg (189 percent),Ireland ranks as second-most wealthy at 125 percent, followed by Denmark (113 percent), the Netherlands and Austria (111 percent), Britain and Belgium (107 percent), France and Sweden (105 percent), Finland (102 percent) and Germany (100 percent).
Italy (98 percent), Spain (86 percent), Greece and Portugal (71 percent) are all below the EU average".

Let's work on current facts not old data and try and keep this discussion progressive.

Here's an objective view (below) from a respected German source - economic analysts - about Ireland. Not quite so optimistic as James B's assessmnent, but not far away.

But does Ireland's experience tell us a lot about being in Europe and in the euro, or just being Irish? Without doubt, the Irish have astutely capitalised on the E.U. largesse thrown at them in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, creating the so-called 'Celtic Tiger economy'and good luck to them for that. More symptomatic of the European problem are continental France, Germany and Italy wih combined unemployment of around 10 million.

Only today, figures were released by the journal Eurofacts showing the percentage of 15-24 year-olds in the Member States of the E.U. a job. They included:

France 25.5%
Belgium 30.2%
Italy: 31.0%
Spain: 41.4%
Germany: 47.8%.

Shall I go on...?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ireland

The economy
Last updated in March 2004

Current situation
Economic sectors, foreign direct investment and competitiveness
Trade
National debt
Investment needs

_________________
Current situation

Ireland is a small, open economy. In the last few years economic development has been characterized by high growth rates and a strong decline in unemployment. In 2000 the Irish economy boomed as GDP grew by 10.7%. Due, among other factors, to the downturn in economic activity in the United States and in Europe, economic growth in GDP terms slowed down to 6.9% in 2002 and to an estimated 2.5% in 2003. Increasing growth rates are expected again for 2004 (3.5%).

Unemployment was still low at 4.4% in 2002 and 4.8% in 2003, but is expected to rise further to 5.1% in 2004.
_______________________________________________________________
Economic sectors, foreign direct investment and competitiveness

The most important economic sector in 2002 was again the service sector (including public services) with 49.7%, followed by industry (47.3%) and agriculture and fishery (3%). Final figures for 2003 are not yet available.

The United States continues to be by far the most important foreign investor, accounting for up to 70% of all jobs created through foreign direct investment in Ireland.

In 2003, Ireland was ranked eleventh in the world for competitiveness according to the World Competitiveness Report, after being fifth in 2000. (By way of comparison, Germany fell to fifth place, after being in fourth place from 1999 to 2002).
_____
Trade

The Irish economy is particularly dependent on exports. In 2002 it exported goods worth EUR 93.6 billion and imported goods worth EUR 55.5 billion, resulting in a balance of goods surplus of EUR 38.1 billion. The results for 2003 are significantly worse, due to the weak world economic situation (forecast for 2003: EUR 82.1 billion in exports; EUR 47.5 in imports; balance of trade surplus of EUR 34.6 billion). A different picture emerges if the service sector is taken into account: In 2002 exports of goods and services were worth EUR 120.3 billion, while imported goods and services were worth EUR 96.9 billion. This then produces a surplus of only EUR 23.4 billion (forecast for 2003: export of goods and services: EUR 113.6 billion; import of goods and services: EUR 87.9 billion; balance of trade surplus: EUR 25.7 billion).
_____________
National debt

Due to the economic growth which was well above average and the associated high tax

revenues, it was possible to reduce the national debt continuously from 95.2% of GDP in 1990 to 31.8% of GDP in 2003. On account of much slower economic growth now, it can be expected that the national debt will rise slightly for the time being (forecast for 2004: 32.3%). It was already no longer possible to achieve a budget surplus in 2002. The deficit amounted to 0.2% and will probably rise to 0.4% of GDP in 2003. A further rise to 1.3% is forecast for 2004.

Ireland is a member of the European Monetary Union

__________
SNIPPED

Good objective comments Tony.

I found the numbers from the latest figures (from July), which upgraded the forecasts, included in your German and other surveys.

--- Execerpt: "Even the very measured Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) said earlier this week that it was raising its growth outlook to reflect "a strong rebound in Irish economic conditions". The institute raised its GDP growth forecast for this year from 3.5 per cent to 4.6 per cent, and lifted its gross national product (GNP) growth forecast from 3.3 per cent to 4.3 per cent. EU structural fund support continues to diminish and is forecast to represent only 1.05% of the Irish economy in 2004, as compared to 6.5% in 1991.

Numbers released in May, for example, showed that the jobs market was approaching conditions it last witnessed at the height of the boom, with 53,000 new jobs created in the year to the end of February. Seasonally adjusted, the number on the register fell from 169,300 in July to 166,500 in August, bringing the standardised unemployment rate to 4.3 per cent, half the euro-zone average. The seasonally adjusted figure has fallen by 10,200 in the past year and analysts said they believed the unemployment rate would drop to 4 per cent by the end of the year"---.


Germany is indeed the sick man of Europe, followed by sluggish France and Italy. However, it seems obvious that taxation and an open economy (and not Euro membership) are the drivers of economic success, as evidenced by many of the EU's medium and small countries. It is very unlikely that these countries will ever accept any dictates affecting these key areas in the new Europe. The addition of the 10 new members from Eastern and Southern Europe only strengthens this argument as in many cases these new members have aggressive taxation & flexible labour policies to attract inward investment, (much to the irritation of the French, in particular).

SteveH wrote

<<
<<Although the current dials have both, you need vulture eyes to read the KPH - agreed!>>

Thus they should risk accidents by adopting units no-one has asked for and benefits no-one and can hardly be seen?
>>

1. My speedometer actually has "km/h", not "KPH" - check yours.

2. Speaking from experience, both of driving a car with mph only where signs were in km/h (South Africa in the 1970's) and of driving a car with km/h as a supplementary indicator (Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium etc in recent years), one quickly learns the essential conversions and uses an mph speedo without any difficulty:

30km/h - 19mph
50km/h - 31mph
80km/h - 50mph
120km/h - 75mph.

martin:
1. My speedometer actually has "km/h", not "KPH" - check yours.

I was not me who said "kph" - it was the eurosceptic -turned- strongly pro-EU chappy who said that.

<<---- The average age of Irish vehicles in 2004 is 3 years, according to the Irish Govt. - perhaps you are referring to buses, which have an average age of 12 years? >>

I am referring to what my eyes say to me when i visit Ireland (which is a lot).

<<Let's work on current facts not old data and try and keep this discussion progressive>>

See Tony's post.