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Game Summaries for 86-87 now available

by flyershistory

86-87 summaries now available:

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/games.cgi?1986-87>

A big year in the history of the team !

As well, game-by-game rosters have been added for the 72-73 season:

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/games.cgi?1972-73>

... it was discovered that Joe Watson wore #5 for a single game:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/boxroster.cgi?19720589>

(that tidbit isn't in any Flyers Media guide ... until maybe the next one )



    
This message has been edited by sker from IP address 192.139.152.160 on Aug 12, 2005 1:41 PM

Posted on Aug 12, 2005, 12:34 PM
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Flames lock up Kiprusoff

by Outland


Sportsnet has learned Miikka Kiprusoff has signed a three-year, $10-million deal.

Sportsnet.ca -- The Calgary Flames have now locked up netminder Miikka Kiprusoff to a long-term deal.

Sportsnet has learned Kiprusoff has signed a three-year, $10-million deal.

The Flames acquired Kiprusoff from San Jose during the 2003-04 season for a draft pick and the Finnish gaoaltender helped the team to the Stanley Cup Finals while posting a 24-10-4 record and a 1.69 goals against average.

During the Flames' playoff run Kiprusoff recorded another 15 wins.
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't know whether to say wow or LOL. That's a helluva raise over what he made (880K) in 2003-04. I'm sure the Flames were spurred on to tie him up at all costs since Kiprusoff would be eligible for UFA next year.

Opinion: It's there money to spend but I think the Flames gave much to much for a guy with just one good year under his belt. It's Giguere all over again.

Posted on Aug 12, 2005, 11:49 AM
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Thornton signs with Bruins

by OutL

Thornton signs deal with Bruins

Canadian Press

8/11/2005 4:51:28 PM

BOSTON (CP) - Joe Thornton committed his future to the Boston Bruins on Thursday, agreeing to a $20-million US, three-year deal and forgoing unrestricted free agency next summer.

A source said the 26-year-old Bruins captain will earn $6.666 million a season, close to the $7 million a year Calgary Flames star Jarome Iginla signed for last week.

"Joe's signing was a priority and we are again making clear how much he means to this franchise," Bruins GM Mike O'Connell said in a statement. "He is among the upper echelon of players in our league and he just continues to get better."

The Bruins had hoped to sign him to a longer deal, on Tuesday offering a $32.5-million, five-year deal - an average of $6.5 million per season. That was up from the $25-million, five-year deal offered last month.

The three-year deal will allow Thornton to become an unrestricted free agent when he's 29.

Both sides were under pressure to get a deal done. Monday is the deadline to accept qualifying offers before they expire. If Thornton had accepted his one-year, $5.13-million qualifier, the new collective bargaining agreement stipulates that the Bruins and Thornton could not have talked about an extension until Jan. 1.

Teammate Sergei Samsonov accepted his one-year, $2.77-million qualifying offer Wednesday, bringing the Russian one step closer to unrestricted free agency next summer. That is unless he can sign a long-term deal with the Bruins after Jan. 1.

Samsonov's decision likely put even more pressure on the Bruins to try and get Thornton under contract, not wanting to lose both star forwards next summer.

Thornton, a six-foot-four, 225-pound native of St. Thomas, Ont., has scored 20-plus goals in each of his last five NHL seasons.

He led the club in scoring three times, including each of the last two NHL seasons and in 2002-03 he finished third overall in the NHL's scoring race with a career-high 101 points.

He led the Bruins in scoring in 2003-04 with 23 goals and 50 assists in 77 games.

Named Boston captain on Oct. 8, 2002, Thornton comes into this season with 160 goals, 261 assists and 611 penalty minutes in 509 career NHL games.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 7:58 PM
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Lindros To Toronto

by FlyerForumFaithful

Leafs land Lindros


Sports Ticker



8/11/2005 4:29:11 PM

TORONTO (CP) - The Toronto Maple Leafs acquired Eric Lindros on Thursday, signing the unrestricted free agent to a one-year contract.

Lindros and the Leafs have been linked for years. But their on-again, off-again courtship was not consummated until Thursday.

The 32-year-old forward played for the New York Rangers most recently. He had 10 goals, 22 assists and 60 penalty minutes in 39 games during the 2003-04 season.

Lindros won the Hart Trophy as the league's most valuable player in 1994-95 and the Lester B. Pearson Award as the most outstanding player in the NHL as voted by the players the same year.

But concussions have taken a toll on the big forward during his NHL career.





Lindros has played 678 career NHL games for Philadelphia and the New York Rangers, recording 356 goals 461 assists and 1,285 penalty


Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 5:07 PM
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I think it's worth the risk

by Outland

Lindros played very well for the NYR in 2003-04 & was starting to display some of that 'edge' to game again. He's not the player he used to be but he's still a pretty good player. If he stays healthy, the Leafs got themselves a real bargain.

To bad BC and 88 burned their bridges because the Leafs signed him for a song. At that price, I'd love to see big boy with this team. Can you imagine trotting out Forsberg, Primeau and Lindros as your 1st 3 centers?

Outs



Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 8:06 PM
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If it's in him

by Sedsey

I expect he'll put his utmost effort out for the Leafs, and as such they will hail him in Toronto.

In Canada, we shall have to prepare for an endless amount of Eric Lindros as a Leaf reports. I would not be surprised to see TSN giving daily updates. heh heh "Eric arrives at the airport." "Eric goes golfing." "Eric puts on the jersey." "Eric plays video games at home." "Eric says Toronto pizzeria makes world's best."

It's a good signing for them. With very little room to make moves, to take chances on guys like Lindros and Allison is the best they could hope for. It may work out for them.

Not if the Flyers have to say anything about it, of course. I'd sure like to play them in the playoffs the way it is shaping up.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 10:39 PM
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You forgot one.

by Loki

Eric DRINKS his beer at Kookoo Bananas.

Posted on Aug 12, 2005, 9:20 AM
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1980 Flyers

by Stefano

Hello. I am doing some research about the Philadelphia's teams in
1980. In that year, the Sixers reached the NBA Finals, the Flyers
reached the Stanley Cup Finals, the Phillies won the World Series and
the Eagles reached the Super Bowl (although SB XV was played in
January 1981).

I would like to have some information about those Flyers. What can you
tell me about them?

- Best players
- What happened in the regular season and in the playoff. Highlights.
- The Stanley Cup vs the Islanders.

Thank you very much.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 4:32 PM
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Some info ...

by flyershistory

...besides straight stats stuff that I sent links too

The Flyers came into the season without high expectations. The prior season they lost Hall Of Fame goalie Bernie Parent to an eye injury. They had 3 men on defense that spent most of the prior season in the minors. After the 2nd game of the season, which they lost 9-2 in Atlanta, then Flyer's coach Pat Quinn commented "it's going to be a long season !". After that game they proceeded to have their 35 game unbeaten streak. The teams success was largely a team effort. They didn't have a single player with 80 points. But they had a pleasent surprise with a rookie goalie - Pete Peeters. They also had some great play from rookie Brian Propp. Vets played a strong role too. Reggie Leach had a 50 goal season. Bobby Clarke gave up his captaincy in order to serve as assistant coach.

The Flyers ousted Wayne Gretzky's Oilers in the first round. Then then met the Rangers, lead by their former coach Fred Shero. They got revenge for getting beaten by those same Rangers in the previous season by taking them in 5 games. In the semi-finals they met the Minnesota North Stars, who beat the 4 time defending champion Montreal Canadiens in their previous round. Another vet, Bill Barber, set several scoring records in that series as the Flyers made it to the finals.

A penalty calling overtime to Jim Watson, lead to an Islander powerplay goal and a win in game 1. Game 2 was a landslide 8-3 win as Flyers Paul Holmgren became the first American ever to get a playoff hattrick. Home teams won the next 3 games, giving the Islanders a 3-2 lead coming into game 6. 2 disputed goals - Denis Potvin's goal tipped with a high stick and Brent Sutter's goal following a play that should have been blown offside gave the Isles a two goal lead going into the 3rd period. But the Flyers came back with 2 goals in that 3rd period to send it into OT. Unfortunately the good guys lost on Nystrom's OT goal which ended their remarkable season.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 10:31 PM
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Nice recap FH (nm)

by Outland

o



Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 11:19 PM
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this TO stuff is surreal

by Pelle31

I'm pulling for the Eagles because this guy is nothing but a pub hound.....I've never seen anything like this....watching all if it unfold yesterday with him lifting weights and doing situps while taking questions at his house was unbelievable.......

the guy signed a contract last year and was happy at the time but now he's not after 1 year and wants to re-negotiate? he's messing with the wrong team and city IMO......the fans have turned on him for the most part and that means only bad things for him.......now he's even on the coaches bad side after yesterday....this will be interesting to watch and see what the Eagles do with him......

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 9:24 AM
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The Eagles will do

by Icer

nothing.

Let him sit and stew.

They expected this, so there is a cluase in the contract that he can be fined if he disrupts the team. So other than the cap hit, rather small this year, it doesn't cost them much to let him play on his lawn. TO, however, is drastically reducing his marketability for when the Eagles cut him. His next contract (because some other team will take the risk) will be even smaller than the one he can't currently feed his family on.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 11:54 AM
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Just heard something on the radio......

by FS

Eagles will go to TO and tell him to shut up and play this year(with the understanding that they will release him after the season) or they will suspend him and collect money back from his signing bonus(last year) for his behavior.

In essence, TO will spend the season auditioning for his next contract and he can go to the market and see what he is worth.



Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 2:01 PM
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if TO wants more money

by devil killer

he should rent out the basketball court he built into his house to any basketball team that wants to pay for it. i think then he would be able to make enough money to support his starving kids.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 4:41 PM
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For the curious - Esche contract numbers

by Outland

2 year deal worth 2 million.

1st year - 100K signing bonus & 900K salary

2nd year - 1 mil salary

Esche eligible for unrestricted free agency at the end of the deal

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 8:42 AM
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Once again...

by Sedsey

...the rumours prove unfounded, and the reaction to them is as much as settling dust.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 1:07 PM
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Wasn't a rumor

by Outland

I believe that the 650K was the real qualifying number offered & the parties went from there. Esche has since said that him and Clarke had things worked out well in advance but yet we have Bob Clarke saying that Niittymaki will be the go to option if Esche doesn't sign. BC made that comment after 4 guys signed and Esche and Seidenberg didn't. I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but a GM wouldn't be making statements to the press like that if things were already worked out & waiting for signatures. No?

The qualifying offer is made to stop the player from going free agent. It's not the actual contract numbers. The player can accept it, negotiate it or say no to it and file for arbitration.

Outs

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 2:07 PM
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Not my day - forgot to add words

by Outland

I had written - "the qualifying offer is to stop the player from going free agent" ADD ON TO THAT: without the team recieving compensation.

Cut. Don't cut. Put words in. Leave words "out".

Sigh

Outs

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 2:47 PM
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I could have specified better

by Sedsey

I referred more to FFF rumour and discussion of fair/unfair numbers, which proved unwarranted, as he ended up with the top end of what anybody here suggested.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 4:00 PM
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Report - Melonhead close to signing with Leafs

by BB

For his sake, I hope he's learned to skate with his head up. I still can't bring myself to hate the guy but you have to wonder why he doesn't just pack it in. You know it is only a matter of time before he gets knocked out again, and a permanent injury can't be discounted after all those concussions.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 8:45 PM
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At least he didn't say he wanted a new contract to support his family

by Shoeny

I can't believe he "left camp" (kicked out by Andy Reid). We need TO but not if he is going to be a cancer. He never had a problem until he changed agents. Sorry this post has nothing to do with hockey, but i thought it would go good with the players hating their organization theme.



Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 10:48 PM
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I don't hate him

by Outland

Eric Lindros was one helluva hockey player for us when he was in his prime. I enjoyed seeing him play and when he was right, he could dominate a game like few could. To bad things (all of them) turned out as they did.

Outs

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:10 PM
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Flyers sign Esche AND Seidenberg

by Outland

Flyers and Esche agree to contract terms

SN.ca Staff

8/10/2005 6:28:34 PM

The Philadelphia Flyers announced today that the team and goaltender Robert Esche have agreed to terms on a new two-year contract, according to General Manager Bob Clarke. Per club policy, financial terms were not disclosed.

"Robert Esche was a big part of the team that almost went to the Stanley Cup Finals two years ago (in 2004) and we expect him to be a big part of the team this season," said Clarke in making the announcement.

Esche, 27, posted a 21-11-7 record, 2.04 goals-against average, .915 save percentage and three shutouts in 40 games for the Flyers during the 2003-04 season. He was fifth in the NHL in goals-against average and his 21 wins and 40 games played were new career highs for a single season. Esche had an 11-7 record and a 2.32 GAA in 18 playoff games as the Flyers advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals. He was also a member of the U.S. National Team at the 2004 World Cup of Hockey.

In two seasons with the Flyers (2002-03 and 2003-04), Esche has compiled a 33-20-10 record and 2.11 GAA in 70 regular season games. He won the William Jennings Trophy, which goes to the goaltenders who played a minimum of 25 games for the team with the fewest goals scored against it, for the 2002-03 season (shared with Roman Cechmanek and the New Jersey Devils' Martin Brodeur). He was acquired by the Flyers, along with Michal Handzus, from the Phoenix Coyotes in exchange for Brian Boucher and Nashville's third round pick in the 2002 NHL Entry Draft on June 12, 2002.

In six NHL seasons with Phoenix and the Flyers (1998-99 through 2003-04), Esche has registered a 51-44-16 record and 2.48 GAA in 128 regular season games. He was originally drafted by Phoenix in the sixth round (139th overall) of the 1996 NHL Entry Draft.





The Flyers also announced today that defenceman Dennis Seidenberg has accepted the club's qualifying offer. Financial terms were not disclosed.

Seidenberg, 24, recorded 13 goals and 28 assists for 41 points and 47 penalty minutes in 79 regular season games for the Flyers' American Hockey League affiliate, the Philadelphia Phantoms, this past season. He posted 10 points (2G,8A) in 18 playoff games as the Phantoms won the Calder Cup Championship. He was also a member of the German National Team at the 2004 World Cup of Hockey.

The 6'0", 200-pound defenseman split the 2003-04 season between the Flyers and the Phantoms. He was scoreless in five regular season games for the Flyers and registered seven goals and 12 assists for 19 points and 31 penalty minutes in 33 games for the Phantoms. He missed 25 games recovering from a broken left leg, which he injured in practice on January 15, 2004.

In two seasons with the Flyers (2002-03 and 2003-04), Seidenberg has recorded four goals and nine assists for 13 points and 22 penalty minutes in 63 career NHL games. He was originally drafted by the Flyers in the sixth round (172nd overall) of the 2001 NHL Entry Draft.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 7:21 PM
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...and then the discussion became moot...

by Sedsey

Regardless of the offer signed, it is now done, and I suppose that two years is a form of appreciation when contrasted to the one year deals given other key players.

Seidenberg was likely more easy to do, given his history, but it's great to see him signed up on the same day.

Next Mission: Phantoms. Who will stay, and who will go...

The Flyers are in good shape now. The waiting begins in earnest.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 8:02 PM
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Yes

by Outland

Whatever Esche and Seidenberg have signed for is what they accepted as being fair. My only interest in this now is born out of curiosity to see what they settled for & where we sit with the cap.

Outs

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:20 PM
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flyers website

by canadian flyer

they talk about the signing of esche and his play and show a picture of Nittymaki. someone goofed on this one

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 8:25 PM
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A slip? (nom)

by Sigmund Sreud

Foreshadowing the conflict to come...

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 9:42 PM
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What's next?

by Shoeny

It seems that all that's left to do to make a championship team is sign Esche. Depending on the cap space left after the Esche signing and possible trades will determine if the flyers can do anything else. I don't think they need to do anything, but teams like Minnesota, Carolina, Buffalo, and Washington have done nothing besides lose some of their best players. I figure these teams must be waiting till teams can't afford to pay guys and they could get them cheaper.

By the way has anyone seen the capitals roster. Over or under, the capitals will have twenty wins.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:56 PM
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Don't forget Seidenberg

by Sedsey

For the system of three offensive minded D paried with three defensive minded D work properly, he'll have to make a step up as well.



Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 6:00 PM
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Goalies Pay

by Outland

Daily Times says that the qualifying offer to Robert Esche is 650K. Is it to low? I say it is even for a proven backup.

Buffalo resigned Biron to a 2 mil+ contract. Mika Noronen, who is quite good, is signed for 665K.

The Av's still have to sign Aebischer. The Bruins still have to sign Raycroft. Both players made the same money as Esche last year. What do you think they'll be offered? Think both teams are watching to see what Clarke does with Chico?

Garth Snow will make 750K on the Island

Chris Osgood will make 900K in Hockeytown

Burke signed to make 1.6 mil as top guy or backup

Thibault is RFA. What will he sign for and will he start or will the kid Fleury?

Scan the rosters to see what many other will be amking.

There's no call to make Esche a multi-millionaire but I honestly believe that he earned himself a minimum 50% increase over last seasons 550K.

Outs

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 1:40 PM
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Agreed.......

by FS

Pay him $750K this year.



Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 2:11 PM
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Thibault...

by Pitts

2 years at $3mil. So $1.5 per year.

I think Clarke is putting the screws to Esche ... not sure why for a guy who is supposed to be the starter and pretty much proved he could do it.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 4:29 PM
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Capa Capa Capa

by Sedsey

Where are we at, 37 Mil??? (I still refuse to taint my game with keeping up on contract BS, even though it is necessary to many viable discussions)

Now, that doesn't mean Esche doesn't deserve more, but it could offer and insight as to why they "lowballed" him.

Seidenberg still to go too...and then there are the Phantoms to resign too...(where does that fit in Capaland? I haven't bothered to check...does the AHL salaries count in some formal structure? I imagine it must, or else teams could "hide" guys in the minors.)



Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:20 PM
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Pens trade for Thibault

by Anonymous

I think that this makes more sense for them than the older Burke. IMO,Thibault is one of those very good goalies who never quite had the good team in front of him.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Penguins land Thibault in deal with Chicago

TSN.ca Staff

8/10/2005 12:04:54 PM

Spurned by Sean Burke on Tuesday, the Pittsburgh Penguins responded by acquiring goaltender Jocelyn Thibault from the Chicago Blackhawks Wednesday in exchange for a fourth round pick in the 2006 Entry Draft.

Thibault became expendable earlier in the week when the Blackhawks signed free agent goaltender Nikolai Khabibulin.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 12:58 PM
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Good move by the Pens

by

I've always liked Thibault... thought he played very well on some very poor teams.

At the risk of being an outcast, I really like the moves the Penguins have made so far. They should definitely earn some respect with the team they're assembling.

F
Rob

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 1:06 PM
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Should be a fun team to watch

by Outland

Got devastating firepower up front and more in the back with Gonchar and Tarnstrom.

Thibault might be seeing a lot of rubber because defense doesn't look to be the Pens strong suit but he'll certainly get the offensive support.

Outs

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 1:10 PM
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Sorry for butting in....

by Pitts

Ed Olczyk said in an article somewhere they are looking to add 1 or 2 defensemen yet. I'd like to see a trade for Witt down in Washington.

Thanks for the props on my team guys! It feels good to actually have a "team" for a change!

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 4:24 PM
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I hate Witt

by Outland

Brendan Witt - brother of Nit and Dim. No relation to "Out".

I'll be blunt - this guy is totally dead from the neck up. He has little or no discipline and lacks common sense. If you want a guy who's a penalty taking fool (the cheap and lazy stick varieties - not for being tough), has absolutely no offensive game to speak of & is out of position more often than not then Witt's your boy. He's tremendously overrated.

Did I mention that I hate Witt(less)?

Outs

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:08 PM
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To-witt, To-witt, To-who?

by Sr. Sressup

That might be an obscure reference for the Americans. Did/do you guys get Mr.Dressup down there??

Nice opening line in that post. "Out"witt indeed. heh heh

Thibault provides good insurance for Fleury, and I do believe that Pittsburgh won for losing in this case. They missed on Burke and landed a better option.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:13 PM
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Mr. Dressup?

by Outland

Yes, we have a Mr. Dressup down here. We call him Dan Line.

Outs

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:22 PM
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I wasn't referring to drag night.

by Sedsey

heh heh?

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:42 PM
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Wild-card Pens

by CaliFlyer

I really have no idea how the disparate pieces of the Pens team are going to work together this year. They have some really scary looking offense, but who knows if firewagon hockey will actually win anything this season? I wouldn't be surprised to see them do great in the west, less so in the east. They are going to be murder to defend against -- I think that'll be a team where you match top line against top line, so that their monster O guys have to pay some attention to defensive responsibilities.

I do think Thibault was a great pickup -- that guy can play, and he's a good low cost vet presence for Fleury. Thibault can win some games on his own if Fleury looks to need a break, too.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 8:20 PM
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Didn't we sign "murder"??

by Sedsey

Look out, Penguins. You might be good, but we will be better.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 9:40 PM
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Lightning sign Burke

by Outland

TSN.ca Staff

8/9/2005 8:58:46 PM

Veteran goaltender Sean Burke has been plucked from the free agent list, signing a two year contract with the Tampa Bay Lightning.

Burke, 38, was reportedly being courted by several NHL teams since the free agent signing period began on August 1.

The former Flyers netminder has a 304-321-101 career record and had a goals-against average go over 3.00 just once over the past 11 seasons.

Burke has played 17 NHL seasons with stops in New Jersey, Hartford, Philadelphia, Carolina, Vancouver, Florida and Phoenix.

Burke played 15 games for the Phoenix Coyotes in 2003-2004 before being traded to the Flyers with forwards Branko Radivojevic and Ben Eager for centre Mike Comrie. After posting a 10-15-5 record with the Coyotes, he posted a 6-5-2 record down the stretch with the Flyers.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 9:46 PM
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Addendum

by OL

The Tampa Bay Lightning also re-signed defenceman Dan Boyle, 29, to a $10-million, three-year contract. Boyle has 27 goals, 85 assists and 131 penalty minutes in two-a-half seasons with the Lightning. He tied for the scoring lead among defencemen during the 2004 playoffs with 10 points in 23 games.

Boyle played nine games for Team Canada at the 2004 World Championships and will also attend Canada's Olympic orientation camp.

"We are absolutely thrilled to have Dan Boyle back in the fold and we are deeply appreciative of the fact that from the very beginning of negotiations, Dan bought into the concept of being willing to take less to try to keep our team together and take another run at winning the Stanley Cup," Lightning GM Jay Feaster said.

The Lightning signed free-agent goaltender Sean Burke to a $3.2-million, two year deal. "We did a lot of homework on Sean, and we believe that not only will he come in and compete with John Grahame and battle for the No. 1 spot, but if he doesn't win that contest he will be a 'team first' player," said Feaster.

Was that team first remark directed at the Blackhawks new goalie? What a shocker! Could somebody actually be thinking that Khabi is all for....Khabi? Heh heh heh.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 10:07 PM
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ESPN blew this one

by

Kept seeing that Pittsburgh had signed Burke late yesterday afternoon on the ESPNews crawler. Is there a back story to this, or did ESPN just screw up their reporting?

F
Rob

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 7:48 AM
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Addendum for Outy

by

I tried to post that he had signed with Pittsburgh last night (see the post above), but was unable. When I logged on this morning at work and saw you had posted that he signed with Tampa, I thought you were having another 'Wayne Babych' moment!

Just had to get that little dig in there, Outs!

F
Rob

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 8:43 AM
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HAHAHAHA

by Outland

Dave. Wayne. Wayne. Dave.

Yep.

Outs





Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 9:29 AM
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The burke signing...

by Pitts

spotsnet.ca had posted a story that he had signed with the Pens before 12:00 yesterday (without a true source indicated). As the afternoon went on, more outlets began reporting it as fact. However, all Pittsburgh media could not confirm the story. The Pens would not comment on it, but wouldn't deny it either.

For what it's worth, I think they were close and Tampa came in at the last minute with an offer.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:36 AM
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should say "1/2 Burke"

by Icer

under the new goaltender equipment rules, he (and Snow) is half the player he was. Paying him over 2 mil at age 38? Thinking he could challenge for #1? Of course, he only needs to beat Grahame, so maybe. With their D and those two goalies, the bolts are in a bind. No cup for you!

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 12:00 PM
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Burke

by Sedsey

Speaking with a trusted and knowledgeable fan recently, I heard myself saying, "I think Burke is done. Look for him in the TV studio."

He countered with the thought that Burke was still a good option.

I predict streaky play from him this season, and ultimately proof that he isn't their answer. I like the guy personally. He's done great stuff for Team Canada during his career, always coming through when they call.

But, I just can't see him as a top level goaltender any more. Not that 38 years old is automatically the end, but it's pretty close for a goalie.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:09 PM
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Wingers

by Shoeny

I count six centers on the team ... Forsberg, Primeau, Handzus, Carter, Richards, and Sharp. I figure two of the last three will move to wing. That gets me to think whats the top line. I predict Carter could end up being on the top line with Forsberg and Gagne. I saw Carter when I went to the final game of the Calder Cup and when he played on the Canadian Juniors team and he played well with Richards on the line. I wouldn't be surprised if they start the season on the same line. If Carter winds up on the top line then watch out. I know there is a surplus of good rookies this year but I believe he could win the rookie of the year. Knuble could also benefit from Forsberg as he did with Thorton.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 6:14 PM
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Hitch has said

by Icer

Forsberg - Gagne - Carter
That's most definitely a #1 line.

Carter plays very much like Forsberg. Maybe Hitch is looking for Forsberg to mentor Carter until the logjam at center clears (Handzsus). Knuble really would shine on a wing with either Carter or Forsberg as a setup man. Gagne also needs a center who can keep up with him and make room for him.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:55 AM
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Speaking of Hitch

by Brett

He has also said on Comcast that the pairings will be one of Hatcher or Rathje with one of Seidenberg or Pitkanen. So the young d-men will be paired with a veteran defensive guy. Leaving Rico and Johnsson together...unless Therien beats one of them out.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 12:49 PM
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Reading this just reminds me yet again that I am very hyped about our D (nom)

by Sedsey

defense...

offense...

...we've it all!

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:05 PM
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More Flyer signings

by Outland

Excerpt from the Inquirer:

"Clarke announced the signings of four players to qualifying offers, including forward Simon Gagne ($2 million). The Flyers also signed defenseman Kim Johnsson ($2.2 million) and forwards Branko Radivojevic ($551,760) and Patrick Sharp ($450,000)"

That leaves only Esche and Seidenberg.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:41 PM
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Rust never sleeps...and neither does Grown Up Bob

by Seil Soung

Keep on "signing" in the free world...

Good news!

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 5:58 PM
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Still waiting on a few signings...

by Donna M.

Unless Randy Jones and Freddy Meyer have signed and I haven't seen the reports, we still have a few RFAs left to go. But it looks like the vast majority of the FLYERS RFAs are back in the fold. This is good.

Now gimme my Phantoms. I want those boys back, too.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 7:37 PM
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nice work...

by CaliFlyer

Cheap price on Branko. I'm a little surprised, I would have thought he'd be worth a bit more, given that he's young and he's shown himself to be a relatively reliable performer.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 10:47 PM
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On my TV, violent images come across my screen...

by Sedsey

No, it isn't a reference to the new Pennywise album, quoting lines from their best effort made several years ago, and it is not a pseudo-American sportswriter dig at the game...

...it is with gleeful anticipation that I read of this new TV deal bid by Comcast to broadcast two National games a week, and what I assume would be a lossening of the anally tight controls of the Flyers home produced broadcasts.

Standing out is the idea that OLN in Canada will see simulcasts. The realistic difference in my viewing habits would probably only see me getting a game or two I wouldn't have, but we all know that even missing one Flyers contest is vexing.

Two years, $100 Mil. ESPN has the right to match. (and they won't, I don't think)

http://www.canada.com/sports/hockey/story.html?id=3d78bf55-3010-4781-a0c2-17b3f0e38388

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:21 PM
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I have a question for myself...

by Sedsey

Wouldn't a "lossening" of anally tight controls be more mess than it is worth???

Ah, the typo...I guess "loosening" doesn't create a nicer image regardless.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:24 PM
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Okay... what does this mean for your American friends?

by

I've decided that the NHL Center Ice package through Dish Network is the way I'm going this season (thusly turning me into a hermit in early October). Will I also catch a few Flyers home broadcasts? If so, SCHWEEEEEEET!


And for the record... great mention of Pennywise!

F
Rob

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:36 PM
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Flyers and the cap

by BB

Was on the TSN website reviewing the Flyers salary cap situation, and unless I’m missing something it looks like they’re going to hit the wall on the cap soon. Based on their information, I’ve gathered the following (I removed Mattias Timander, as I believe he is a free agent and they had him listed on the payroll):

Player and 2005 Salary (US - $M)
Peter Forsberg F $5.8
Mike Rathje D $3.5
Derian Hatcher D $3.5
Keith Primeau F $3.4
Eric Desjardins D $2.3
Kim Johnsson D $2.2
Michal Handzus F $2.1
Simon Gagne F $2.0
Donald Brashear F $1.7
Mike Knuble F $1.5
Sami Kapanen F $1.5
T Stevenson F $1.3
Joni Pitkanen D $0.9
Chris Therien D $0.5
Jon Sim F $0.5
Jeff Carter F $1.0 (unconfirmed)
Mike Richards F $1.0 (unconfirmed)

Add that all up, and it's 34.7M. Great, right? But that list has no goalies on it, and only has 11 forwards on it. So now the Flyers have to re-sign Esche, promote Niittymaki, Sharp and Seidenberg (my estimated salaries):

Robert Esche G $2.0
A Niittymaki G $0.8
D Seidenberg D $0.6
Patrick Sharp F $0.7

Total team salary is now $38.8M.

That total leaves no room for any signings, and only allows for 12 forwards and 7 defensemen on the active roster. Pretty tight. So you have to wonder if Trader Bob has something else up his sleeve - in particular Brash's salary sticks out like a sore thumb, but who is going to want him for $1.7M?

I guess we just have to hope that the roster stays healthy and performs.



Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 2:34 PM
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More Info but no answers :-)

by Outland

I don't have a clue on what Clarke offered the RFA's but the new league minimum wage is 450K. I suspect that is what Niitymaki could be making as a 1st yr. guy.

Esche made 560K in 2003-04 and that would be one helluva raise if got 2 mil so quickly in this new day and age. I think BC remembers Boucher and his contract. Kim Johnsson got a decent raise and that was 3/4 mil.

Seidenberg had signed for 550K in 03-04. League minimum to your 600K looks like decent ballpark.

Pat Sharp draws a blank from me because I don't know what he was making but I'd be surprised if it was all that much. He also could be a league minimium to 600K guy.

Also have Branko Radivojevic to re-sign too. Rado made 825K in Phoenix/Philly in 03-04.

Flyers could be paying deferred money to KP and Recchi as well. I forget how much it is to each but it could be 200K apiece.

Sims 500K won't count if he doesn't make the team & it's likely that we'll only be carrying 12 forwards this year. Hitch can always use Seidenberg at forward again if the need arises for another. Heh heh heh

Outs

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 3:28 PM
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I looked today as well

by Sedsey

Those salaries of Brashear and Stevenson sure stick out.

The fact that Brash is making more than Knuble makes the latter a steal.

The fact the both the "tough guys" are making more than Kapanen is more than slightly ridiculous.

But, we need to keep at least one of them around, now that Fedoruk is gone too. Unless they really expect a Josh Gratton to be able to effectively enforce at the NHL level, taking away that element would leave the duties falling where we don't want them. I don't need to see Primer having to fight all the battles, and I don't want Hatcher off the ice for 5 min at a time either.

I think most here would agree that Stevenson is not a top scrapper, but in what is a cold statement I'd rather see him taking punches to the face than our much better players.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:16 PM
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Stevenson

by Outland

Great news! Sami is scheduled to make the same 1.52 mil as Knuble and Stevenson 'only' gets 1.25.

Still doesn't explain why 1.75 mil man Brashear is still in town and the more willing scrapper Fedoruk was traded away. Million dollar difference, younger player and fan fav to boot.

Stevenson will be a pain in the ass to opponents & remind us of some other tough Flyers that were willing to go but rarely took the nod. Don Saleski immediately came to mind.

Out(He's certainly not a Kelly)land




Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 5:02 PM
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Esche offer is a low. Very low.

by Outland

Reported today in the Daily Times that the qualifying offer to Esche is 650K. 650K??? Wow. I know the Flyers are leery about being burned like they were on the Boucher contract but to offer Esche only a 100K raise is really a slap in the face. Considering that Johnsson received a 750K raise, it's no wonder he hasn't signed and I don't blame him.

Maybe there actually was something to that article by Bob McKenzie (that I scoffed at) saying the Flyers were playing contractual hardball with Carter and Richards & didn't give them all they could. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Bottom line? Newcomers, who have done absolutely NOTHING for the organization, get high dollar, multi year contracts thrown at them. Vet Flyer's, who have worked hard and bled for the organization, get treated to trades, 1 year contract offers and slaps to the face.

Yet Brashear is still here & makes 1.75 mil a year

Out(was Esche's union job part of the reason?)land



Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:00 AM
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Is Esche really a number one goalie?

by FS

I am not sold. I think he is a good backup, but I for one, do not believe he is the guy for us. I think Hitch makes him a better goalie than he is due to the defensive system.

I think it would be wise for Bobby not to overpay Robert and also not to go out more than one year.



Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:47 AM
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I concur!

by Icer

Paying Esche $2mil would be a waste. I wouldn't mind a multi year deal, but he has to realize that they do expect him to be a backup soon.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 11:51 AM
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???????

by Outland

The figure of 2 million per yr. IS certainly to much but 650K is too low.

Where does 2 million come from? I certainly didn't say that is what he should have been offered.

Outs

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 12:23 PM
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Open wide buddy........

by FS

Of course you did Outie......

It's two against one. And you are the one.

Icer and I both heard you say that.

So, the real question is, do you think that Esche is truely a number one goalie or just a stop gap for the Flyers while they find a true number one?

I believe that the Flyers made him a number one and that it is because of Hitch's system that Esche benefitted from.



Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 1:24 PM
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Flyers won't be goalie shopping..............

by Outland

unless they can't come to terms with Esche and then it will be interesting to see what they do to get backup help for Niitymaki.

"......do you think that Esche is truely a number one goalie or just a stop gap for the Flyers while they find a true number one?"

Esche is not presently on my list of the top 10 goalies in the game but he's far from the bottom. The Flyers will try to get what they can out of him and as cheaply as possible. That is to be expected. He's not Brodeur, Nabokov, Khabibulin, Luongo and some others but he fits well on this team. IMO, you don't have to be a superstar type to be a #1 goalie. If that was the case, a lot of very good teams & some Cup winners in the past wouldn't have had 'true' #1 guys. We know it's a proven fact that Clarke is notoriously cheap, very impatient and lost at sea befuddled when it comes to goalies. He admits that he doesn't understand goalies at all. Now that it's all about the bang for the buck paid, that's where a guy like Esche is a real bargain when compared to many many others but he shouldn't be bargain basement either. 750K - 1 mil for what he did isn't overpaying and out of line even with what a good backup would make.

"I believe that the Flyers made him a number one and that it is because of Hitch's system that Esche benefitted from."

That's the whole bottom line. Work well within the system and do what is a must and the rest takes care of itself. Hitch did make him #1 because he worked well within the scheme. Esche also stole us some games last year too. Like I said, he's not a superstar butI think he's better than the credit he's given.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 2:43 PM
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HAHAHAHA

by Outland

I know that Clarke is your new pal and probably the deity of your choice but to offer what he did to Esche who is the present #1 goalie (like it or not) is an insult. Would offering the guy 750K - 1 mil have been out of line? You call him a back up & that's fine but last time I looked he was the #1 goalie of the Phila.Flyers and put in that position by the coach. Didn't he do a good job for us? He's certainly no grey beard. It's just mazing how so many are not willing to let the guy compete before being cast off for Niittymaki or over expensive headcases like Khabibulin. Esche certainly didn't lose us that game 7. If he gets better scoring support, he's a Cup winning goalie now, ain't he? Would you still be saying all this stuff if we scored 2 more goals that night and then beat Calgary?

I had my complaints about Esche and rebound control last year but controlling rebounds better is a correctible thing. I believe that ANY defensive system (Hitch's or others) makes the goalie better & it doesn't work vice versa very well. We've both seen some GREAT goalies on pretty lousy teams and ya know what? That goalie was still great but his numbers suffered and the team was still a loser. We've also seen mediocre goalies hoisting the Cup because they had the team & system that suit them. Soooooo, now we get a team built up and the same complaint that is heard year after year crops up again. THIS GOALIE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH! Yikes. Nothing changes.

Out(Esche deserves more respect)land

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 12:45 PM
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Good points, but.....

by FS

I would not pay Esche much over what a good backup is worth, is that number $1m?

Regarding your post, I don't lump the blame on him for the playoff loss, it is a team sport and the team lost, not Esche. If we had won game 7, it would have only got us into the Cup finals. Esche is still unproven in my mind as a number one goalie.

But, I think we can afford to get stronger long term in the nets. If it happens, great. If not, so be it.

We move on and compete with the players we have.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 1:28 PM
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Esche is more proven than Niittymaki

by Sedsey

I agree with GrampO that the offer is too low.

We cannot annoint Niittymaki as number one goalie based on an AHL Cup and a 3-0 NHL record. If we could from the former, then why isn't Neil Little a Flyers goalie??

As far as entering with a bang goes, I will throw out names like Lacher and Carey and say we won't even know for sure if he has a good year.

I want it to stay open for competition between Esche and Niittymaki for the number one job, but to think we would be better off risking alienation of Esche at this point is misguided.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:03 PM
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No piling on allowed.........

by FS

OK, I am not saying that Nitty is the next coming of the great one in goal.

All I am saying is that Esche is not, in my mind, a clear cut number one goalie and we should not break the bank to pay him. Seriously though, keep in mind that we rescued him from the dumpster in Phoenix and he played great in our system. And yes, I agree with Outie that the system is what we play under here and Esche plays it well. I think a lot of goalies have played the system well here. In fact, everyone since Hitch came on board.

Did Clarke lowball him? Yes. If my opinion matters, I would offer him $750-$1M on a one year and see what happens after this year. Maybe we would keep him, maybe not.

I think we have a team that will be a pain in the ars to play against. Goalie is not our most important element here. Esche or Nitty can handle the job in my opinion. Our defense and our overall play from our forwards will make this a tough defensive team.

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:52 PM
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Granted

by Sedsey

I do feel that if Niittymaki cannot wrest the job away from Esche, then it is back to the drawing board, but I also am not ready to write off the possibility that Robert can correct his most glaring errors.

Goaltending will always be a big factor, so I think it is a position you shouldn't mess around with too much, even as famous as our team is for doing just that.

After all, with the Clown Show on the way, we'll need a guy that can stop 3 breakaways on a consistant basis.

I just don't see where even the extra $100K you are suggesting couldn't have been offered. I know it is better business to get what you can for as low as possible, but given his role on the team, to be paid in the very bottom tier is hard to look at as anything but insulting.

I wonder if Grown Up Bob is playing Esche's personality of self-doubt and castigation to advantage...

Posted on Aug 10, 2005, 5:58 PM
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too far

by Icer

I'm not ripping Esche! He is what he is, and on this team, that's the backup. Maybe not now, but in the cap age, you have to look forward. Even if Hitch doesn't expect to strat the season with Nitty as #1, that's what he's been groomed for, so they do expect him to take that job. So under the constraints of a cap, you can not pay a backup a #1 salary. And there's no more room for LeClair style "thank you" contracts.

And I'm not basing this on Nitty's Calder cup or 3 game NHL career. It's based on watdhing him play. He IS a very good goalie, and unlike Little, one whose style will translate well to the NHL.

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 11:47 AM
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And just what does a #1 goalie have to make?

by Outland

I'm curious as to what you think a #1 goalie must make. I'm also curious as to what you think the backup goalies should make. Why does your message title say 'too far'? Too far in what sense?

You write that Esche will become a backup down the road and that he shouldn't be paid like a #1 goalie. I'm very curious as to what YOU think a #1 goalie must make? What should a #1 be paid to be a REAL #1? I'm also curious to know what the price is for backup goalies. Why does your message title say 'too far'? Too far in what sense?

You never even answered a previous question of mine asking where you got a figure of 2 million a year for Esche. Hey! how about this? Why did you bother answering in this thread long AFTER the Esche contract has been settled and the dollar figures already known?

Look, the entire gist of your post is that you know what is going to happen in the future & that there was a definite call for Esche to make multi millions per year when, in actuality, you apparently ignored the factual dollar figures thought to be fair by myself, FS and others.

Lots of questions for ya Nostradamus.

Outs



Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 1:54 PM
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Sorry about the repeat questions

by OutL

My final editing needs work it seems

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 2:20 PM
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You're such a dork!

by Outie

...

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 5:21 PM
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Hey! I don't sweat you, old man!

by OutL

...

Posted on Aug 11, 2005, 5:22 PM
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All too funny Outie...........Prediction inside...........

by FS

I have pondered our discussion for the last few days, weighed your comments, weighed Sedsey's comments, looked at other message boards for how others felt, driven around Florida thinking about what the right thing is to do, and then I ..................................

Called Bobby Clarke and recommended a two year deal at a total of $2M. I felt that was fair.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Bobby thinks of my recommendation.....

But, you heard it here first.

Posted on Aug 12, 2005, 4:29 PM
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Marvellous

by OutL

Such a deft touch.

Does this make YOU the greatest GM in the history of the NHL now?

Outs

Posted on Aug 13, 2005, 7:05 AM
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Johnsson accepts Flyers offer

by Shoeny

$2.2 million

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 1:09 PM
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Nice raise and a good price for both but.......

by Outland

that 1 year deal also allows Johnsson to be UFA next year. I'm sure the 2 parties will talk more as the season goes on but the Flyers are taking a risk here if KJ decides to see what he's worth "out" there.

I don't understand or like this single year signing at all.

Outs

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 2:47 PM
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I expect it was player (agent) driven

by Sedsey

After all, everybody and their dogs and cats wants to be UFA.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:09 PM
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Not sure

by OutL

I thought about that before posting but I kept seeing Clarke's quote about how he wants to do one year deals with the RFA's and Kim's name was in that group

I wouldn't blame Johnsson for doing one year if it was his idea but I don't concur if it is coming from the Flyers end of things.

Oots

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:45 PM
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Todd Bertuzzi reinstated

by

Bertuzzi allowed back into NHL

By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer
August 9, 2005

AP - Aug 8, 5:14 pm EDT


NEW YORK (AP) -- Todd Bertuzzi's NHL banishment is over, 17 months after his punch to the head of Colorado's Steve Moore.

Bertuzzi is allowed to play hockey again, Moore's injuries from the attack might make his return impossible.

The Vancouver Canucks forward was reinstated by commissioner Gary Bettman on Monday, nearly a year and a half after Bertuzzi's blindside punch left Moore with a broken neck and a murky playing future.

``I anticipate that there will be those who will say that Mr. Bertuzzi's 17-month suspension is inadequate,'' Bettman said in a statement. ``I disagree.''

Bertuzzi was suspended for the final 13 regular-season games of the 2003-04 season and the Stanley Cup playoffs. His punishment continued throughout last season's NHL lockout, which kept Bertuzzi from playing in the World Cup of Hockey last September and the past two world championships.

He also was barred from playing in any European league last season.

``In light of the unusual circumstances surrounding the 2004-05 season, it is appropriate to consider not only the significant impact the suspension has had on Mr. Bertuzzi's NHL career, but also the impact that the league's suspension has had on Mr. Bertuzzi's ability to play professional hockey anywhere during this time.''

Bertuzzi and Moore met separately with Bettman for Bertuzzi's reinstatement hearing on April 26. The Vancouver right winger needed the commissioner's approval before being allowed back into the league.

``I find that the appropriate discipline to be imposed for Mr. Bertuzzi's conduct on March 8, 2004 is the suspension that has been served to date,'' Bettman said.

``Mr. Bertuzzi's actions were deserving of an appropriately harsh sanction,'' Bettman continued, describing the hit as going ``beyond what could ever be considered acceptable behavior in the National Hockey League. Mr. Bertuzzi must be held responsible for the results of his actions, and the message must be delivered loudly and forcefully that the game will not tolerate this type of conduct.''

The suspension cost Bertuzzi $501,926.39 in salary. He is due to earn more than $5.2 million from the Canucks in the upcoming season.

As per terms of his criminal probation, Bertuzzi will not be permitted to play against Moore. That may never come to pass, however -- as Moore is still feeling effects of the hit and wasn't re-signed by the Avalanche.

``He is quite disappointed, given he is unable to resume his NHL career and may never resume his NHL career,'' Tim Danson, the lawyer representing Moore, told The Canadian Press. ``It's disappointing to him that Mr. Bertuzzi is able to resume his career at this particular time. Steve has an uncertain future. He's got health challenges to deal with.

``While he maintains a very positive attitude . . . at this point he really is in the hands of doctors who will have to make the determination whether or not he will be able to play again.''

Moore's Denver attorney, Lee Foreman, didn't immediately return a call from The Associated Press.

Bettman said in his summary statement, which consisted of 10 pages and nearly 5,000 words, that Bertuzzi's behavior will be watched closely this season.

``While I believe that reinstatement of Mr. Bertuzzi at this point in time is appropriate and consistent with a 'fresh start' for the 2005-06 season, I want to make it clear that any future acts by Mr. Bertuzzi involving a review for possible supplemental discipline will require an in-person hearing,'' Bettman said. ``If discipline is to be imposed, Mr. Bertuzzi should understand that it will be more severe than might otherwise be the case for similar acts committed by other NHL players.''

Wayne Gretzky, hired earlier Monday as coach of the Phoenix Coyotes, immediately invited Bertuzzi to Canada's Olympic Orientation camp to be held later this month. Gretzky also serves as executive director of Team Canada.

``I'm glad the NHL has finally stepped in and put him back in the game and reinstated him,'' Gretzky told TSN. ``Nobody condones what Todd did. I'm sure he'd be the first one to tell you it was a mistake.

``But you know it's time to move forward. We will invite him to our training camp. He's an elite player and I expect him to have a great year and be part of Team Canada come February in Italy.''

Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely for the hit that left Moore with a broken neck, a concussion and no guarantee that he'd still be a professional hockey player. With the Avalanche ahead 8-2 in the game, Bertuzzi grabbed Moore from behind, punched him on the side of his head and then landed on top of Moore, driving his head into the ice. The bloodied Colorado player was removed on a stretcher.

The attack was seen as retaliation for a hit Moore put on Vancouver star Markus Naslund that left the Canucks captain with a concussion and sidelined him for three games.

Bertuzzi first asked for his reinstatement hearing last December, around the time he pleaded guilty in a Vancouver court to criminal assault and was given a conditional discharge. After facing up to 18 months in prison, he was given a year's probation and sentenced to 80 hours of community service.



Updated on Tuesday, Aug 9, 2005 2:36 am EDT






Quick question. Does everyone want to see Bertuzzi get the sh*t beat out of him upon his return to the NHL, or am I the only one? Just one good *ss beating is all I ask... everything will be cool after that.

F
Rob



Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 7:33 AM
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It's a joke

by Outland

"I'm glad the NHL has finally stepped in and put him back in the game and reinstated him,'' Gretzky told TSN. ``Nobody condones what Todd did. I'm sure he'd be the first one to tell you it was a mistake. But you know it's time to move forward. We will invite him to our training camp. He's an elite player and I expect him to have a great year and be part of Team Canada come February in Italy.''


Where else but in the NHL could a guy effectively ruin another man's career with a despicable act of mayhem and then be called elite and welcomed back with open arms by a guy who is supposedly the greatest NHL player of all time & considered an ambassador of the game?

The NHL had a chance to make a statement here and they didn't do it. Gretzky says it's time to move on but what about Moore? What about this guy who wasn't an elite player who was the victim? Yeah Rob, Bertuzzi deserves a beatdown in the same manner he did to Moore but I wouldn't have let him back in the league as long as Moore was unable to play.

Out(Gretzky & Bettman should get a beatdown to. Add Dan Line's name to that too)land

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 12:19 PM
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Gagne Signed

by F17a

found the following link listing Gagne as being signed through 2005/2005 at a salary of 2 million



Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:02 PM
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I don't see your link anywhere but here's mine...

by faithfullyflyers

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=132855

Maybe the one yr deal is Bob's way of seeing if Simon finally has a break out yr.
I know I've been waiting for awhile, it's starting to feel a little like the old
88 feeling.


Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:32 PM
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WWWHHHOOOSSSHHHH

by Sedsey

That's the sound of me letting myself breathe. heh heh

Well, I didn't expect anything more than 1 year, though I had hoped for 2.

Regardless, Silent Simon is back in the fold, and now I feel completely great about things.

Understand the distinction, Fourmites. I am not saying everything is perfect to the finest detail, but I would maintain that'll never happen to any hockey team. There will always be doubts and questions.

But, we have a hell of a team now, and this season is going to ROCK.

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 11:21 PM
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Never a doubt

by Outland

RFA's being signed by other teams is extremely rare anymore. Guys like LeCavalier and Hossa drew no attention the last go round & I think Thornton didn't either.

The 1 year deal is what Clarke said he wanted to do with all the RFA's. One down and 5 (Esche, Johnsson, Seidenberg, Radivojevic and Sharp) to go.

Just think. Under the last CBA, Gagne would be considered underpaid and a steal at 2 million. Still might be too but that will depend on which Simon shows up.

Out(Hey! Let's re-sign 88!)land

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 9:35 AM
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I knew it, but I was still waiting...

by Sedsey

If anything, the signed contract would make Silent Simon easier to move, but I don't expect that to happen.

Speaking of Traitor E and Back Off Johnny, where oh where is the confirmation on that rumour that had them as NYR's??



Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 4:03 PM
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Bobby is smart !!!!

by Canadian Flyer

by signing him to a one year deal Simon still cant go anywhere even if he has a great season. under the cba unrestricted free agency goes by age . next season 29, then 28 then 27 so we still got first dibs on making a qualifying ofeer to him for the next few years.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 8:32 AM
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OT: Eagles Board

by CT-Flyer

Does anyone have a link to an Eagles board of the same (or somewhat close) quality as the FFF?

Much appreciated.

CT

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 9:21 PM
from IP address 64.252.41.34

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Just Wing It!

by Anonymous

At wingheads.com. A place to avoid the kids.the crazyies and the trash-mouths, with lots of good, knowledgable people.

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:07 PM
from IP address 68.59.136.2

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Just Wing It!

by Flying Dutchman

At wingheads.com. A place to avoid the kids.the crazyies and the trash-mouths, with lots of good, knowledgable people.

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:09 PM
from IP address 68.59.136.2

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I'll tell ya where I post

by Sedsey

That should get ya hyped!

Actually...no worries...I can be only found here. Good luck with your quest!

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 11:22 PM
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Try Igglephans.com

by Loki

It's run by fans who aren't out to make a buck off of the posters. Place has been around for awhile, so it's alot like the community here. People know each other and meet for games and other stuff in Philly. Unlike the cut-and-paste jobs you'll find at some boards, this one has guys who make trips to Lehigh to actually watch the training camps and let you know what they see up there. Opinions can get strong, but that's part of the charm.

Posted on Aug 9, 2005, 9:36 AM
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Osgood signs with Wings (nm)

by flyershistory

~~

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 4:09 PM
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Boston and Flyers co-favs?? So says Stephen Harris.

by Sedsey

http://bruins.bostonherald.com/bruins/view.bg?articleid=96964

At the very least, it is an interesting viewpoint.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 5:47 PM
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Jersey a contender?

by Pelle31

not unless they make some unreal moves IMO.......they were thin on offense to begin with and the time of the Jersey Trap is over......I think they are going to struggle....

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:15 AM
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devils suck

by

...and so do the bruins

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:46 AM
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what a joke

by Icer

The B's are on equal standing with the Flyers because:

They picked up a Flyer's castoff in Zhamnov and a used up Defenseman that the Flyers passed over. They have some rookies coming up from an AHL team that got thoroughly pantsed by the Flyer's prospects. Oh - plus they're "planning" on spending money on Free Agents - This from a team known for being cheap. And, they should have gone after a defenseman that the Flyers got.

But, it was a Boston Newspaper. Kind of like reading about the Leafs in the Toronto Sun.

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:56 AM
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Of course the Boston Herald is going to make them favorites

by Shoeny

If adding Zhamnov, Scatchard, McEachern, Isbister, and a washed up Leetch then the makes you the favorite then the west must be amazing. I think Pittsburg is going to be better than Boston. Pittsburg added Gonchar, Palffy, Reechi and Crosby. I know that penguins fan is going to agree with me, but face it buddy they're still not as good as the Flyers. You still can't count out the defending champs and the last time i checked the devils still have Brodeur.

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 11:00 AM
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Devils

by Brett

Brodeur has long had a phenomenal defense in front of him, defense and their trap system have been the backbone of the Devils. Losing Niedermayer is huge...McGillis is certainly not going to fill his shoes. Stevens is over the hill.

Their forwards range from the inconsistent (Kozlov, Friesen) to the undersize (Gionta). Gomez is good, but isn't a guy who is going to carry a team. Elias hasn't been the same without Sykora and Arnott on his line. They have a lot of great complementary talent in the guys I mentioned, plus Langenbrunner and Madden, but nothing top shelf. (Like that Forsberg guy )



Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 5:07 PM
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Isn't Stevens an UFA?

by The Freak

I thought he was in the list of UFA's that Outland posted.

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 9:39 PM
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Yup, but I expect he'll be resigned by NJ. (nom)

by Sedsey

nom

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 11:23 PM
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Gretzky to coach Coyotes - article link

by Outland

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=132749&hubName=nhl

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 5:26 PM
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Hatcher's suspension

by Canadian Flyer

Hatcher would have to miss opening night because of his three game suspension against calgary in the playoffs. won't he?

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 1:08 PM
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Good one

by Sedsey

I don't remember the circumstances there, but you might be right.

Good thing we signed Therien! We need him against the Rangers. heh



Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 2:04 PM
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suspension

by Canadian Flyer

he still has a three game suspension remaining because there was a dispute why he could play in the world cup and Bertuzzi couldn't .

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 2:20 PM
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he eats up that fag boy Jagr too

by Pelle31

Therien always gave Jagr fits....

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:16 AM
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Updated list of available UFA's

by Outland

Centers

Andrew Cassels, Columbus; Vincent Damphousse, San Jose; Ron Francis, Toronto; Chris Gratton, Colorado; Travis Green, Boston; Brian Holzinger, Columbus; Eric Lindros, N.Y. Rangers; Mark Messier, N.Y. Rangers; Rem Murray, Nashville; Andrei Nikolishin, Colorado; Yanic Perreault, Montreal; Jozef Stumpel, Los Angeles; Shaun Van Allen, Ottawa.

Right wings

Donald Audette, Florida; Peter Bondra, Ottawa; Valeri Bure, Dallas; Anson Carter, Los Angeles; Adam Deadmarsh, Los Angeles; Rob DiMaio, Dallas; Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Washington; Alexander Mogilny, Toronto; Vladimir Orszagh, Nashville; Owen Nolan, Toronto; Teemu Selanne, Colorado; Scott Young, Dallas.

Left wings

Dave Andreychuk, Tampa Bay; Bates Battaglia, Washington; Jim Cummins, Colorado; x-John LeClair, Philadelphia; Jim McKenzie, Nashville; Brian Savage, Phoenix; Steve Thomas, Detroit; Rob Zamuner, Boston.

Defensemen

Murray Baron, St. Louis; x-Mathieu Biron, Florida; Brad Bombardir, Nashville; Jeff Finley, St. Louis; Roman Hamrlik, N.Y. Islanders; Alexander Khavanov, St. Louis; Bryan Marchment, Toronto; Boris Mironov, N.Y. Rangers; Lyle Odelein, Florida; James Patrick, Buffalo; Stephane Quintal, Los Angeles; Jiri Slegr, Boston; Scott Stevens, New Jersey; Don Sweeney, Dallas; Glen Wesley, Carolina; Jason Woolley, Detroit; Jason York, Nashville.

Goaltenders

Sean Burke, Philadelphia; Roman Cechmanek, Los Angeles; Byron Dafoe, Atlanta; Mike Dunham, N.Y. Rangers; Arturs Irbe, Columbus; Curtis Joseph, Detroit; Chris Osgood, St. Louis; Steve Shields, Florida; Ron Tugnutt, Dallas.

x-Indicates player was bought out and can't re-sign with previous club.

-------------------------------------------------------------
You could make a pretty decent team out of this group of guys. Some were absolutely awesome in their primes.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 10:52 AM
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A reason to smile

by Sedsey

Nice work. I like the idea that we all can combine our efforts to make this a one stop hockey source for the rabid fans and casual readers alike, and this sort of post does that.

Outside of a winger that just doesn't fit under our cap, I don't see one name on that list that I think we need to get.

That's a reason to smile.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 2:02 PM
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That it is

by Outland

I can't take credit for doing any research on the list. Found it at Spectors and posted it up as FYI.

It will be interesting to see how the lines shape up in the pre-season action and how all the guys adapt to each other & change.

I saw a report in todays Inq. that if Hatcher did not sign with us, Clarke was going after Malakhov as the next option. Makes me an even bigger Hatcher fan now.

Outs

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 5:10 PM
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...and I also..

by Sedsey

I'd take Hatcher at 60% over a full Malakhov.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 5:45 PM
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I would take 1 of Bondra, Deadmarsh, Selanne, or Carter

by Tim55

We could use another winger, I dont really like Turner Stevenson that much.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 10:09 PM
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He's my favorite player!!!!

by Mama Stevenson

bnm

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 12:23 AM
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Deadmarsh

by Pelle31

would be my pick.....I always liked him in Colorado and to reunite him with Peter would be awesome

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:10 AM
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Handzus

by Shoeny

Is he getting traded or not? Don't believe spectors b/c that site has people from radio stations just making up stuff and the morons at spectors believe it. If he does get traded I hope its not for the bum they were going to get. I wouldn't mind seeing a guy like Justin Williams come back. I know he's a restricted free agent but its just an idea.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 8:05 AM
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totally agree

by Canadian Flyer

i was disappointed to see Justin go. wouldn't mind having him back either.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 9:17 AM
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Do we need to trade Handzus?

by Sedsey

I haven't looked at the detials, but off the top of my head I don't see why we do.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 1:59 PM
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Hanzus

by Canadian Flyer

well we really don't but with the centre's like i see it:

Forsberg
Carter
Richards
Sharp
Primeau
Hanzus

I think we could afford to let Zeus go for a better winger to play the left side unless Forsberg and Sharp move to the wings because they both played wing before.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 2:24 PM
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I expect Sharp (confirmed in many statements) and Handzus to play wing

by Sedsey

I don't see Handzus as a guy, despite his shortcomings in footspeed, thatw e need to rush out and get rid of.

He can be part of an awesome PK unit that will give other teams fits.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 3:04 PM
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I would not trade Handzus

by Tim55

He might not be the fastest guy but he has good hands and hes pretty good all around forward that can be used in any situation. Hes good in around the front of he net. He also only 28

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 10:15 PM
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What if....

by BWB

someone like the Capitals, who have 7 players signed for a total of 7 million dollars, comes out and signs Gagne to an offer sheet of 4 years, 16 million dollars. With an average salary of 4 million, we would get 1,2,3 round draft picks as compensation, and I doubt that we could match it. If we did, a couple more players would have to be jettisoned and we would see plenty more Phantoms wearing O&B. I think that could leave us up a creek without a paddle. Could this happen, and if it does can we handle it?





Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 10:18 PM
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In Clarke We Trust

by Sedsey

Willy, Billy, Willy, Willy, come now...we won't let Silent Simon jet off to yellower pastures.

I expect an announcement of the signing by Tuesday at the latest. I will be holding my breath until then.

(I can hold my breath a real long time. Some might say it is an inhuman trait, but that would be quickly dispelled by my reputation for warmth and compassion. I have been holding it since '75, after all, so it should come as no surprise I've developed a talent. But I sure miss oxygen, I gotta admit.)

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 2:43 AM
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1971-72 Game Rosters Added

by flyershistory

In the never-ending quest to add all possible Flyers data, game rosters for every single game for the 1971-72 season have been added to the Flyers History site. To view these rosters go to any game summary from that season and click on the "Game Rosters" link. A list of all games from that season can be viewed here:

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/games.cgi?1971-72

But the coolest thing that this allows is game-by-game results for each player who played in this season. You can get to this in one of two ways:

1) Go to the season overview for this season :

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/season.cgi?1971-72

Go to the "Scoring Statistics" section. For the player you want to look at, click on their "Games Played" total and you'll go to their game-by-game page

2) Go to the individual player's stats page by entering their name on the main page or by selecting their name from this page:

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/playstat.cgi

Then from the regular season scoring section of the page click on "1971-72" heading or again on the games played total from that season.


For example, Clarke's game-by-game totals for that season page is:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bi...&season=1971-72

Rick MacLeish's page is:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bi...&season=1971-72


This feature (probably a hidden feature to most) is already available for the 1967-68, 1968-69, 1969-70 and 1996-present seasons already

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 7:27 PM
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Without Pete we'd have to use another webpage

by Sedsey

heh heh

The best Flyers source on the web never rests, defining itself as classic by the constantly updated database and plethora of fine features that one can quickly find on any occasion when the facts are a must.


Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 2:47 AM
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Do you do requests?

by Sedsey

How about the return of the "next game" header category...

...or perhaps a "Countdown to Flyers hockey" would be more appropriate. heh heh

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 8:50 PM
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Hejduk stays put... Ziggy plays guitar in Pittsburgh

by

Milan Hejduk resigns with Colorado.

Zigmund Palffy signs with Pittsburgh.

F
Rob

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 5:09 PM
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Is Pelle31 a prophet??

by Sedsey

He warned us of Pittsburgn on lottery day...my oh my, look who is rebuilding quickly on the FA market.

I'm still glad it isn't the Rangers.

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 5:50 PM
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Feels good for Change

by Pitts

We been down loooong time. I think its safe to say the Pen's management team is think high octane offense this season. I read a report that said we were the front-runners for Forsberg until "Bottonless Pockets Clarke" stepped in at the last minute.

I still wish Patrick would offer our 1st and some change next year for Gagne. You know, to help you all get under that cap. Being as we're neighbors and all.

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 8:56 PM
from IP address 67.165.68.124

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You Cad!

by Sedsey

Casting those cow eyes at gagne will not be enough to woo him, I say! heh heh

Well, I'm just glad it isn't the Rangers. (it is thoughtcrime to cheer for the Rangers...I must drill it in)

Ya know, I don't dig Pittsburgh much either...

...who is this person celebrating Pittsburgh on our Flyers board!!???

I look forward to watching Richards and Gagne stymie Mario, Sidney, and Ziggy on the PK!



Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 2:37 AM
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Jagr Jr

by Pelle31

you can have him.....he's a wuss and will be pounded as such by Hatcher and the like......

just because of the rules changes this doesn't mean just pure skating teams are going to be effective.....IF they call the rules the same big teams such as ours will be justas effective because now they won't be allowed to interfere with our forecheck like teams have done in the past.....of course who knows if they'll enforce this kind of play......maybe the NHL wants to be Ice Capades with nets.....I hope not or football will become my sport of choice

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:07 AM
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Assistant captains ?

by Canadian Flyer

with Recchi and Leclair gone who will become the assistant Captains ? will it be Desjardin and Forsberg? or will Hatcher be an assistant?

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 2:23 PM
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i like...

by

rico and gagne...hopefully if rico is healthy this is a no brainer...and maybe its time for gags to take more of a leadership role. im against making any of the new guys a capt. right off the bat. if things dont work out or if injuries occur i like hatcher to wear one maybe by the holidays.

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 4:12 PM
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I agree in principal

by Sedsey

However, with Gagne I don't see it happening over the likes of Forsberg or Hatcher.

I'd like to see it, but I'm not sure he is of the personality type to be a team leader. I see him as a quiet and unassuming type that lets his on ice effort speak for him. While that is certainly a nice form of leadership, there are too many veterans to placate before Gagne would get an 'A'.

The suggestion of Desjardins is most likely true, as he has had a leadership role for many years.

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 5:48 PM
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Desjardins is an assistant already

by Shoeny

don't you guys remember when Lindros left and Desjardins became captain. It would be him, probably Hatcher b/c he's Hitch's boy, and Kapanen. Some people are leaders vocally and other lead by example and that't why I give it to Kapanen.

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 11:44 PM
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Recchi & Leclair

by Canadian Flyer

Rechhi & Leclair were Assistants to Primeau for the last season. Desjardin filled in when either assistant wasn't there.

Posted on Aug 7, 2005, 12:23 AM
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for the out of town folks

by Pelle31

which I am one......www.610wip.com is avalable to us now...we can listen to all the rumors and such via the web now...plus no more searching for the Flyer games because most of them should be on 610......

sorry if this was posted before but I thought I'd post it because I didn't know hey had it going until I looked last week......

I'll be at the Jersey shore this week so I won't be around......I know this brings joy to most so have a good week!!!

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 12:51 PM
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Good move

by Sedsey

The Flyers are famous for being the least accessable broadcasts outside of the home market, so it is about time somebody addressed it.

People are happy you'll be gone? Who's that? I don't recall anybody, outside of me in the height of our warring days, that could even be accused.

Have fun, and cya when ya get back!

Posted on Aug 6, 2005, 4:05 PM
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now Seds

by Pelle31

I thought you would enjoy sarcasm.......lol......we are all brothers of the orange and black.....doesn't mean brothers don't fight from time to time eh?.....

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 10:09 AM
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Screw you, Pelle!!

by Sedsey

heh heh

Just getting into the spirit of the thing...hahaha

Posted on Aug 8, 2005, 1:38 PM
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Kariya in Nashville, Allison In T.O.

by Canadian Flyer

oh oh. Toronto signs Domi and now Allison. wonder if they would like Brashear to go along with that? nice fit for Kariya because Nashville wont hurt us. wouldn't mind seing moginly or deadmarsh here.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 5:17 PM
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Clarke will be out of his mind

by Russian Flyer

if he trades Brashear into our conference or to the worst and toughest opponent.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 6:07 PM
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it was a joke

by Canadian Flyer

it was a joke because Toronto sucks and are'nt getting better.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 6:58 PM
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Now that the Wall has come tumbling down...

by Sedsey

...let us take a moment to appreciate our incumbants.

Robert Esche has his problems (REBOUND CONTROL), but he was certianly not the reason why we lost to Tampa Bay.

Loyalty demands he be given opportunity to win back the starter's job. (Loyalty doesn't mean sqaut to me...if you expect the players to give it to the team, the team has to show it them equally)

Now, we have a potential exciting contest as Niittymaki comes off his Calder Cup MVP performance, looking to improve on his stellar (heh) 3-0 NHL record.

One goalie to push the other to greater heights, who will in turn push back and do the same.

Both goalies have proven they are worthy of a chance for this season.

I am not upset at all with what we have. Is it perfect? Nope. It might be fine, though.

I think it was Pelle that correctly pointed out that our improved defense will be a big help in this area, which will take some pressure off.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:46 PM
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Re: Loyalty

by CT-Flyer

Who expects the players to be "loyal"to the team? How do you define loyalty?

LOYALTY: 1. The state or quality of being loyal. See Synonyms at fidelity. 2. A feeling or attitude of devoted attachment and affection. Often used in the plural: My loyalties lie with my family.

LOYAL: 1. Steadfast in allegiance to one's homeland, government, or sovereign. 2. Faithful to a person, ideal, custom, cause, or duty. 3. Of, relating to, or marked by loyalty. See Synonyms at faithful

I'm not sure loyalty is at work here. Let's face it...it's a job. These guys have contracts. What does the team expect of them? Loyalty? Nope...just do the damned job we're paying you to do. That's the team's expectation.

So, how has Esche shown loyalty? How has the team requested it of him. Esche's loyalty was shown by what? Living up to his contract? Wow. I'm more loyal to a lot of people than I thought I was.

Now that that's said, I've got no problem with our goalie corps. I thought Esche did a very good job in net. His flaws are known as you point out. Nitty still has to be tested, but if he shows what he did in his previous 3 NHL games and with the Phantoms, I'd say the Flyers are solid at goaltender.

On a side note...Roman Checkmanek is still on the block with no takers...

CT

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 3:02 PM
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Separating Winners From Losers

by Sedsey

No, that incendiary title is not a personally directed barb, but rather a statement underlining that reciprocal loyalty by all the definitions you provide can be the difference between taking a team full of superstars and losing (or not making the playoffs for 7 years...going on 8) (that was just a personally directed barb, NYR) and having a dedicated group that support each other in a common goal where sacrifice, pain, and struggle are routine.

It is the cynical interpretation of "just a job for all of them" that clouds reality. Sports involves more than physical execution of one's role. It is a mindset that creates champions.

As a CT-Flyer certified champion debater and all-around good guy, I know this to be true. hahahaha

On Esche, can you recall him ever pointing fingers at his teammates, even when they deserved it, rather than himself for a loss?

Wouldn't a person that just punched the time clock be more likely to act in self preservation and try to deflect attention away from his own shortcomings?

You can argue that a malcontented quote dropper risks his future with a club, so is just "doing his job" with the media, but I oftentimes see people speaking from emotions in the NHL. We all know what the cliches are when they don't.

This is a distinction, but it remains true. You can see unequivocally that the Flyers have and are giving Esche every opportunity, and that can certainly be construed as "loyalty."

When I speak of this term, I most often use it in the other direction, however, making note of the Flyers often showing loyalty to players.

Of course the TratiorE fans will come howling in here, and I'm not even going into it. Dead horse.

That aside, look at Therien and Fedoruk recently.

Last season, the Flyers probably would have benefitted from keeping Therien. I don't think anybody would argue they'd want Kapanen playing D over Chris.

But, they didn't want him to have to ride the buses, or play the Black Ace, so they did him a favour and shipped him to Dallas.

I look at Fedoruk being a similar case. There is no room for him right now, so instead of stalling his career on the Phantoms, they are giving him a chance to go elsewhere.

Eaton, Delmore, Lessard...SOME (I SAID SOME, WHICH DOESN'T MEAN ALL) people howled away at these moves, with no understanding of anything but the self-centered needs of the club.

I am not saying that guys don't get shipped out for hockey reasons. I am arguing that the Flyers treat them very well, or rather show them loyalty, whenever they can do so.

It makes a class organization, and this attitude of self-reliance and loyalty against the rest of the world starts right at Uncle Ed and trickles down through Grown Up Bob to Ron Hextall, Paul Holmgren, and Simon Nolet, to name a few. It is the central tenet in the Flyers concept.

(exceptions, as they always do exist, can be cited in the coaching ranks)

The closing finds agreement. Both deserve a shot at the job. Let's hope we are right.

(Being right means the Flyers win in my world. I don't care about being right in predicting failure. It's too easy, and thus I risk nothing in it.)

(On that above note, mark down what I said about Jeff Carter, and feel free to kick my ass if I am wrong.)




Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 5:27 PM
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Well...

by CT-Flyer

You win again.

I'm just a lowly businessman, so that's how I look at things. I keep forgetting Snider and Clarke are in it for the good and well-being of the players. Oh, there's no doubt they want to maintain a happy workplace. But in the end, the players are protected, contracted, union employees (that's not a dig, just a fact). They are paid to do a job...sports or not. Frankly, they do punch a clock in a figurative manner. They have a schedule that dictates where they have to be (be it game or practice) and when they have to be there. [side note: I know a recently retired pro football player who said that's exactly how it is in football, and I can't imagine it's any different in hockey]. This quit being about "sports" when all of these chumps started taking, and the other chumps started paying, millions of dollars to an individual to play a game. This is entertainment.

Does Clarke move guys out of the goodness of his heart? You think so. He occassionally says so in the press. Sounds good. Nice spin. Did anyone ASK Chrissy T is he would like to pack his bags and move to Dallas? Hmmm...seems like quite an inconvenience to me. Maybe--since the Flyers, from Uncle Ed right down to grown up Bob--do such a great job of creating a happy environment, "Good Guy" Fedoruk would have been happy staying in the Flyers organization versus packing up his bags and moving on. I don't know, it's just a hypothetical. But, you base all of your pseudo-facts on what you read in the press--the same press that you so malign for so many other issues. When it supports your argument, the rpess is great, when not...they are a bunch of liars who don't understand hockey. So be it.

My opinion, (which is undoubtedly wrong), is these guys get moved because they are excess baggage. They are moved, NOT because Clarke wants to feel good about himself or create a great team atmosphere. He moves them because they are tradable commodities that do no good sitting on his shelf (see, "e-bay"). One man's junk is another man's treasure. Chris became baggage because we had 6 guys better than him. Fedoruk became baggage for the same reason.

Oh, and because Esche doesn't point fingers he's loyal? No, Esche is just a stand-up citizen and an all-around nice guy. I doubt Esche would point fingers if he witnessed Tie Domi robbing a bank in broad daylight. Not pointing fingers doesn't make you loyal. Maybe he's very inwardly focused and bears the weight of the world on his shoulders. Maybe, in his deep psyche, he feels every goal is his own fault, not the team's. You and I don't know what Esche thinks. How do you/we know what is said in the locker room or at practice (anywhere but in front of the media)? Maybe Esche is a real prick behind the scenes, but he just chooses not to publicly show it (hence his classiness). Having class and being loyal are not the same.

But, like I said, I just know business, not sports.

Anyway, I'm done. You win. I'll say it again, you win. On emore time, you win. Call me names, allude to me in your posts, feel free. I'll be your chump. It's been real.

Good night and God bless.

CT

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 9:24 PM
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heh heh (nom)

by Sedsey

and again...heh heh

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 9:48 PM
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opportunity to win back the starter's job?

by BWB

I didn't know he gave it to anyone else, or it was even an open competition. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be entrenched as our starter, unless Antero looks like Roy throughout the preseason. Am I missing something with our goalie situation?

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 3:30 PM
from IP address 71.242.83.133

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Nits vs Esche

by PA

I see them splitting time 75/25. Nits should get enough time to get his feet wet. He's was astonishing last year, he really made Chicago look silly in the playoffs.

I don't see why Esche would be challenged. Let's not look for controversy - there's enough up in Bethlehem right now....

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 4:35 PM
from IP address 65.248.232.253

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You heard it here first, folks...

by nits

I'm an awesome goalie. Watch out Robert!

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 8:51 PM
from IP address 68.42.21.247

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I look at it as an open position

by Sedsey

Esche hasn't played. Niittymaki has. That could be a factor going in.

I think that if you have two quality goalies, then there is nothing wrong with letting them know that they are in friendly competition right from training camp onwards. Each should be given as equal a chance as possible, and then let each drive the other to sharper performance.

This could be a negative with some personality types, but I'd rather find that out in September than December, and creating that atmosphere is the only way to find out, in theory.

I don't see it as having to be controversial at all, in response to PA. The fans and media can rant away all they like, as long as the team concept remains strong against outside doubts.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 5:35 PM
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missing:

by Icer

Nitty is a much more talented goalie. Nothing against Esche, but I never saw him as anything more than reliable. Not a bad thing, but not spectacular.

I know, it was ONLY the AHL, but there were a number of NHLr's playing. And it was the championship - the best the AHL offers. And not only did he outplay the most touted goalie prospect in the league, he looked far better, so effortless I thought he might fall asleep at times. He was always quick. Now he reads plays extremely well, saving that quickness for when the offense makes a great play.

Knowing Hitch & Clarke's style, Esche still has his #1 job. Until December.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 6:01 PM
from IP address 65.168.203.3

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Remember this about Peter F.

by WCF

I am thrilled to have him on this team, but don't forget his many health issues, he has had a history of significant injuries, so we can't put all our eggs in one basket:

"Peter Forsberg, who has won two Stanley Cup championships along with the Calder, Art Ross and Hart Trophies during his 10-year NHL career, also has endured an abundance of injuries over that span.

Along with several concussions, the 31-year-old former first-round pick of the Philadelphia Flyers has suffered injuries to both shoulders, his groin and his thigh. A ruptured spleen caused him to miss the final two rounds of the 2001 playoffs and an ankle ailment forced him to bypass the entire 2001-02 regular season."



Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:43 PM
from IP address 152.132.8.197

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Exactly

by Sedsey

I think the first thing I said was that we will be nervously watching the injury wires with Forsberg, more so than a "normal" player who could just get hurt at any time.

It can be pointed out that Roenick's health isn't much more stable, so we didn't "lose out" in that department.

This point is an excellent support to the theory that the drive should be to expose Carter and Richards to as many situations as possible, right from the start.

Juggling ice time will be tough for Hitchcock, but I feel this is what he must do for the good of the club.



Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:50 PM
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Who isn't?

by Russian Flyer

I can't think of any big star player that does not have a "history of injuries". Do you?

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:56 PM
from IP address 130.91.35.143

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Yes, but...

by WCF

Peter has more than had his share of lengthy injuries to the point where after his last injury in Sweden in March (concussion), he was seriously considering retirement. You are correct in that most of the stars in the league have gone through this, but as magnificently great as Peter is, he is major injury prone. As Seds said above, Roenick's health isn't great either, so it was a tradeoff although Peter is far more skilled than JR.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 3:12 PM
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I am not health specialist

by Russian Flyer

so I cannot really compare Roenick's and Forsberg's state of health. But yes, even if it is a trade-off when it comes to injuries, Forsberg is a much better value at a slightly higher price. JR is also 3 years older. It's not dog years but hockey years count for more than one each.

In any case I hope that a year off served Peter well and he stays healthy for us.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 3:16 PM
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We found this out with Primeau and JR two years ago...

by Puck Addict

What matters isn't the regular season injuries. All that matters is that you're healthy when the real season starts.

Primeau has credited his concussion to his performance in the 2003-2004 playoffs- it allowed him time to rest. JR came back from his broken jaw in 6 weeks, but he was healthy enough when it mattered.

Forsberg has gone stretches missing games in the regular season, and each time he comes back and puts up gobs of postseason points.

That's fine by me.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 4:30 PM
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Moginly

by Canadian Flyer

Moginly would make a nice addition if he comes cheap enough.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 12:56 PM
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Khabibulin joins Blackhawks (nm)

by flyershistory

~~~

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 12:38 PM
from IP address 192.139.152.160

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yeah

by ad philly

bubba and billybob won't be happy,they just learned how to spell cup in tampa.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:36 PM
from IP address 65.34.91.154

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84-85 and 85-86 game summaries now online

by flyershistory

84-85:

http://www.flyershistory.net/cgi-bin/games.cgi?1984-85

85-86:

http://www.flyershistory.net/cgi-bin/games.cgi?1985-86


These summaries include details such as peanlty types, game officials and 3 stars of the game.

Summaries for every game from 67-68 thru 85-86 and 94-95 to present are available.



Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 12:36 PM
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Ottawa

by CT-Flyer

Anyone notice how quiet Ottawa has been during this FA signing period? Seems a bit odd as it looks like they've got some room under the cap.

Just thought I'd waste some space pointing this out.

CT

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:21 AM
from IP address 64.252.41.34

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They stated before the draft that they were happy with their team

by Sedsey

The big them to their minds was getting the goalie, so they got Hasek.

They already possess some scary forwards and great D, so this is the team to beat for us in the East. Still.



Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:40 PM
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just read on spectors!!!!

by Canadian Flyer

"The Edmonton Oilers have struck again by trading
Marty Reasoner and a pick to Flyers for Mikael Handzus. Has been reported on the FAN 960 in Calgary and Team 1260 in Edmonton. Deal is not finalized yet with the NHL. "



i hope this one isn't true !!!!!


Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 9:57 AM
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If true, so much for the 'bigger is better' theory!

by

Reasoner is a little guy.

I saw him come up with the Blues. If they're serious about opening up the game offensively, Reasoner could flourish... kid has a lot of speed. Would add another offensive dimension to one of the lower lines.

Big question now... how much money does it save us?

If he comes at a lower price than Zeus, good move.

F
Rob

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 10:15 AM
from IP address 199.67.7.151

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Odd Move

by CT-Flyer

I can't figure this one out. O.K. Reasoner is smaller and probably faster, but his stats are lousy compared to Zeus. They are virtually the same age (one month apart).

Salary cap move? Why? With JR gone, I thought our problems were solved. Plus, there's no telling what Reasoner will get, though it's likely less than Zeus. If it was done for cap room, does that mean Clarke plans on bringing in more talent (the Bhulin rumors abound...), and therefore need the additional room? Or, is he planning on offering Gagne or one of the others more money (though I thought those offers had already been tendered and were included in the cap assessment).

It also looks like Reasoner has had either injury probelms, or has been a regular AHL call-up. The most games he played in a season were 70....after that, 52. His best season he had 31 points (70 games), however, he had a nice run in '99-'00 when he scored 24 points in 32 games played. Zeus' stats are much better than that, having 30(+) points in five of six seasons played and 40(+) in the the last 3.

SO, I've got to assume this is a cap room thing. Maybe everyone misinterpreted the actual JR cost? Maybe Clarke's got a move up his sleeve. Maybe he is just looking for some more draft picks?

Hmmmm.....

CT



Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:14 AM
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Reasoner's salary last (active) season

by Russian Flyer

was $850,000. Handzus' - $1,533.333.

Salary dump.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:18 AM
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O.K., Salary Dump it is!

by CT-Flyer

Thanks, RF!

But, why?

Still makes no sense unless (1) we were still too close to the cap with JR gone, or (2) Clarke's got another move up his sleeve. If you're under the cap, you've got to keep Zeus over Reasoner, right?


CT

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:23 AM
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Either they are planning

by Russian Flyer

more moves or leaving themselves an option to make changes later.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:24 AM
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Agreed

by Shoeny

But is he the best we could get. With all this salary getting dumped what does Clarke have up his sleeve. The Flyers are ten million under the cap and they only have three restricted free agents they need to sign. And with Handzus gone then we have even more. Im just going to throw out a couple of names who I wouldn't be surprised

Mogilny
Deadmarsh
Selanne
Kariya
Palff

Maybe they are all wishful thinking, but I've learned in the last couple of days anything is possible

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:32 AM
from IP address 68.45.116.5

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How do you expect to pay

by Russian Flyer

for the stars you listed with the money they "saved" on Handzus???

I will give reasoner a chance. Handzus is a strong player but I remember him often being too slow to catch up with the puck or partners. He is not a huge loss and I am sure there is a good financial reason to make this move.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:39 AM
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They are $12 million under the cap

by Shoeny

The flyers still need to sign their restricted free agents. How much do u think Johnsson, Gagne, and Esche? I doubt if they get more than three million each, but even if they do they still have money left over from signing their other rfa's such as Sharp, Radivojevic, Seidenberg. They also might not be done trading guys. Brashear could be traded for future considerations. It makes me wonder what the flyers will get for JR. We got a second round pick for Fedoruk. What about a team like Washington who has one player on the team. If you give a team a trade like JR's, where you pay them for taking on their salary, then anything could happen. And by the way I said it was wishful thinking.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:32 PM
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update ...

by flyershistory

The radio station broadcaster (teh source of this rumour) posted on another site that this rumour was just a case of them discussing possible scenarios over-the-air and had no basis on anything they heard

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 11:43 AM
from IP address 192.139.152.160

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Maybe...

by CT-Flyer

...it was something being discussed in case the JR to LA deal didn't pan out.

CT

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 12:27 PM
from IP address 64.252.41.34

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Much ado about nothing?

by Sedsey

It has been hit and miss this week, with osme of the rumours coming true, and others looking ridiculous as they fade into nothingness.

I will assume this is one of the latter. It does not make sense to me on any level.

Posted on Aug 5, 2005, 2:38 PM
from IP address 24.78.166.157

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