Here is a map of the massive aboveground reservoir they are building out west. The reservoir will hold 190,000 acre-feet or 62 billion gallons of water. The red line is the seepage canal that will run along US27. To give you an idea where this is, the road you see to the left is US27 and on the bottom right corner you can see the northern edges of the fingers.

SAFER has been working with the SFWMD to get a boat ramp built in the reservoir, and allow fishing there. It will take awhile for them to study the area, and for DEP to agree to allow fishing. The boat ramp will be built into the plan for sure. I believe we will get fishing in all the new reservoirs that will be built. We will not get motorboating in the STA's, but may get fishing in the surrounding canals of the STA's. We're still working on that.

why not work on putting a new ramp at sawgrass instead! then worry about a ramp in the reservior.

It's not a new ramp that Sawgrass needs - it's FISH.

This is refreshing news. It is only right that this opportunity be made available to us considering all the grief we endure over all the propective fill-ins. Although it is right to remain positive, it is inevitable that one or more canals will be lost. I've seen the long term goal of the conservationists in the Waterways documentary on public access television. The plan is pretty tight and convincing. We shall see what happens I guess. Later, we can only hope it is managed well. I have read many articles on fish & game commissions from other states, ie. Georgia,Texas,California. We have a lot to be desired in Florida. Go figure...they have are Bass too!

The ramps at Sawgrass are fine, you just have to be careful. I am sure we will get access to more places, since they will be filling in some canals.

IMO, things are going to change here, but not for the worse, maybe in the short run. But in the long run it will all be better. The L-67 canal is causing far too much damage to ENP and the reefs on boths sides of the keys.

Can some of the local "pros" get with the contractors to set up some good structure and cover? Maybe I'm asking too much!

Jon Fury of FWC is waiting for clearance from DERM to rebuild the ramp at Sawgrass, it will be done, be patient.

And If you think the L-67 canal is hurting the saltwater estuaries South of ENP, just wait til there is no controll over the flow South.

The L-67 is a superhighway for water, it passes relatively unchanged from when it enters till it dumps into ENP. If it were made to flow across flats it would be filtered and it would be just like it was origionally before MAN screwed it up. It is bad enough with all the development we have and will have, no reason to leave this worse.

If the water the L usually carries is forced onto the flats there will be plenty more fishing area as well.

You can talk all you want about sheet flow being returned by filling in the canals , but as long as the Alley and 41 exist ,as they as, true sheet flow will never return as it was

The Alley and 41 will be used to distribute the water over the large area of flats. They are fine, it is the 25 miles of the L and the Miami canal that do the most damage. It is the North and South runs the are bad. Atleast in that area. Remember natural flow is/was to the south.

I also feel the SFWM is not out to screw the fishermen. But the fishermen are not the priority and our need for water is, so ultimately things will change.

There are so many negative posts on various boards , with the simple intention of stopping canals from being filled in, without really understanding why they need to be and what the REAL effects will be. SAFER efforts are great, atleast it keeps the powers to be in check. By that I mean they know we are watching and paying attention.

It is my understanding that 2 or 3 reservoirs are planned to be built. This will give South Florida Anglers more places to fish. There will also be 6 STA's built in areas south of Okeechobee. As Castoff33 informed us there will be no motorboats allowed in these areas (STA), but there is a possibility that fishing will be allowed in the surrounding canals....even more places to fish.

I agree that it is inevitable that one or more canals well be lost. I also believe that SFWMD is not out to screw the Bass Fishermen of South Florida. This cleanup has been a long time coming and is needed. I think SAFER has done an excellent job in getting the word out and informing the SFWMD and all parties involved that there are more than one way to achieve their long term goals.

As for the L-67, this would be devastating if we lose this canal. We all know that the "L" is the heart of bass fishing at Holiday Park. Looking at the maps on the SFWMD web site, the middle portion of the Miami canal as well as L-67 are not highlighted anymore....

All this talk about filling in canals has me thinking about alternatives. The reservoir is one. How about putting a ramp at L-28 at 40 mile bend and removing the intermitment levees to make it navigable for serious fishing? I have not fished it since I had my Jonboat years ago. Just something I wanted to throw out there.

It would be a crime to fill in the L-67 , L-68 , fingers , alley , why not just remove the levee ? and put wiers on the top side forcing the water in the flats on top of the holding ponds and then an exit on the bottom ? they say it cost to much ? how much money would be lost if people stopped fishing ? pay the extra amount and gain in the future by all the money we spend ! Lox is a great example - 65 mile canal with inner flats that clean the water . There has to be a way that we still get the canals to fish and the water gets cleaned .They could of stopped spraying all the hydrilla in the canals as well. The best way would be shut down the suger and sod guys but you wont see that happen any time soon.


T.R.

Lox is a Federal Preserve, that makes it different. It really does not work properly either, but it is a preserve.

The reason I believe they spray the hydrilla is because it will clog in a case of flooding. Mean when there is current barreling through L68 or L67. That is why they spray the crap out of residential canals.

Bigsugar and the sod and the water supply are priorities, we can say all we want get rid of big sugar and problem solved. It is partly big sugar but it is more development. More reserviors is exactly what we need. They are natural filters.

I could see if the blocked off the L67 near cut 2 and filled in the other cuts. Then L67 could fill with the water that has passed south through the flats and access would still be there from the south.

Big sugar is a pimple compared to what the water means to the 6 million people who live in South Florida. The financial impact of us running out of water for a month is imeasurable. It is not all about Big Sugar, we need to get passed it being all about them and it being all their fault.

...all this is strictly political and we all know what drives
polotics...!! the almighty dollar..$$$$$$$$$...the end result
will be exactly what big sugar (big money)says...no ifs ands or buts about it..!!

If water being clean is the most important thing then why not fill in lox as well , it doesnt matter what it is and think of the millions of bass and turtles and gators and all other living things that will be wiped out by the fill in !! There is a way to leave the canals and still get clean water by forcing the canals in certain locations into the flats and or filters on the pumps but all this cost money ! and as a tax payer who voted yes on the 1cent per pound for big sugar to clean up there act only to have it shot down by the people in Dade in the late 80s who were scared by tv adds that all there brethern would loose there jobs if the tax was put through was the start of how big sugar rules Florida , open up cuba and by there sugar and kick out all the poisons that surround the big o and that would clean it up by at least 50% . and remember the flats dry up and the bass will have no place to go when the water guys decide to drain the big o for the 3rd time just prior to a dry season. and no motor boats in the holding area flats what a joke -I guess the 100's of tournament fishermen better by blow up dingys ! there are other ways but they are one minded !

T.R.

"..and no motor boats in the holding area flats what a joke -I guess the 100's of tournament fishermen better by blow up dingys ! there are other ways but they are one minded"


Nitro21, the no motorboats apply to the STA's only. The STA's are Stormwater Treatment Areas. I could be wrong but I think these areas will be use to store drinking water. So you can see why they want to kept them as clean as possible. Up north and out West you see this a lot.

The Reservoirs will be used to filter the water leaving Okeechobee. These areas will allow motorboats. The areas the Reservoirs and STA are planned for are currently sugarcanes fields that was bought out by the government.

This is what I mean by understanding the plan. BIG SUGAR is not 50 percent of it. And if the canals are filled in then it would take a very serious droubt to dry the flats, there would be more water on them. How in the heck did anything live out there when we did not screw it up??? Because it worked naturally. There were no canals when it was naturally made. ALL THE PEOPLE WHO MOVED HERE are more to blame then the sugar or anyone else. I am not saying they don't have their part in this but it is far bigger then just one.

Danny must own stock in Dole or the two brothers who own half of central Florida because what he is stating is crazy , you take away all the weed killer , all
the pesticides all the fertilizers from the farms from around the Big O and you would cut the amount of phosphors by 50% coming from the lake area and then
one thing Danny Boy forgets to say is then you take out the farms in Homestead were all the junk comes from that flows out in the salt water and that would be another
40% going into the salt water side. have you ever fished sawgrass when water comes from the sugar cane fields the water is amber and the fishing sucks that is why sawgrass is so crappy right now . force the finger canals into a holding flats staging area and clean up the water before it gets to the l-67 and then force it into a holding center just pass the trail and it would get cleaner until it hits the farms in homestead were it would then pollute Dannys secret fishing holes in the keys !

T.R.

See that is just the problem, I have no affiliation with or no interest in Big Sugar. And the name is Danny, there is no boy after, either be a man and leave the name calling out of it, or ignorantly go on thinking it is all big sugar. It is too easy to blame one company.

OK, so get rid of the sod and sugar and homestead farms, and now what, no grass for people, no sugar and no veggies???? They are not going away! And sugar has lowered their levels and are going to be lowering them more. This project has the attention of the whole world, you bet it will be under a scope by people who actually know what they are doing. Who do you think uses more ferts? Sugar or the 6 million people living here?

Yes I have seen the water that comes into Lox and Sawgrass, the water at Sawgrass has been gin clear everytime I have been there this year. The fish are on the flats, they are not gone. Alot of the fish in the glades move from one area to another in My opinion. They easily go where the water goes. Just because they aren't stacked in the canals there must be a problem???

If you think bass fishing even remotely compares to saltwater on a economic value, you are nuts. I bet freshwater might make up 5 percent of every dollar spent on fishing in Florida. The Keys are a paradise and we are lucky to have them, and they effect the fishing on both coast much further up then the Keys themself.

There has to be a way of making things work and not screwing it up worse. But with a narrow minded approached of blaming one industry, it won't help. They are not going anywhere.

Like I said force the finger canals into a holding area and then another one on the south side of the trail and you can leave the canals alone , do you think for one second that by filling in all the canals and making flats is going to solve the problem , lets take what you have said again and again Danny , they want to make it the way it was years ago a river of grass but there wasnt 6 million people living here then and the river of grass would end up like the miami lagoon a river of trash !! Man kind is here and here to stay fill in the canal or not and the water still will be junk ! and what will they say if this project fails we just killed the best bass fishery on the planet ! and the ocean is a dumping ground for the world everytime you flush the toilet and will someday need to be filled in ! the government has dumped more crap in the ocean than you will ever know. and have you seen the bombing range when there is a dry spell Danny were is all the water ? were are all the bass ? Your telling me that there are more people living on us27 than farm land ! righttttttt pro farmer danny

T.R.

they dont have to get rid of the farmers but were is the 2 mile buffer that was promised by the goverment ? oh ya the farmers and developers bought it all up before the bill passed ! LOL

Ok the bombing range dried up? In one of the worse droubt on record, it happens. But the way I see it, they made the canals for water management they can fill them in for water management. I think it will help, at the very least stop flowing water through them, jus tlike they did with the old canals.

Danny I am not picking on you , I am just stating in this world with Alllllllll
the knowledge and knowhow that we all have and all the tools that we have there is a way to make sure your salt water fishery and are fresh water fishery can be fixed with out filling in the canals , you love your waters and we love ares and
I am more t'd off by them taking the cheapest way out rather than charge us a little more to do it the right way ! prove to me that if you force the water at Johnys b*** **** into a staging area and one on the miami canal north of the park and clean the water before it gets to the alley and L-67 and then put another cleaning area just south of the trail that the water would or wouldnt be any cleaner than just filling in the whole thing ! I guess we will find out in a year or two. Last post on the subject of the cheapest way out ! It was nice debating with you Danny take care.

T.R.

The cheapest way out?? I really do not agree with you on that one. This is the most expensive restoration project ever. Even the US government is pitching in a huge amount of funds. However, they are not all for Broward county. It sounds like you are asking SFWM to spend more on L67, and/or expecting Broward County to do it. That is how it sounds, or I am not clear on your idea.

Although like I said, if they just blocked off the Norhtern end of L67 and diverted the water through the flats.

Another point, I am not sure on.........why fill them in, why not just stop the flow. Especially the Miami Canal north of the spillway at Holy Lands, just don't run any water through it. Have you noticed what happens to the water when it passes under 41. Alot of questions, I just find it hard to believe it is a simple answer.

I fish both fresh and salt, and actually for the last 2 years probably more fresh. So this is not coming from someone who does not care about the fishery. But I don't think many bass guys realize the damage being done to saltwater from this same problem. And saltwater by far is a bigger economic impact.

IMO the list of things to consider.........sugar is staying, sod is staying, farmers are staying, more people are coming, and everyone needs water. Fishing is probably the last one. The task at hand is more involved then a simple answer.

In the end, I just hope that whatever it is they do, WORKS! But this is exactly why forums are good, it offer people a chance to voice their opinions, whether we agree or not it is more productive to debate then to shout simple answers.

Thanks for voicing your opinion , I say the cheapest way because it is cheaper to dump the levee in the canal rather than remove and haul away the levee , if you haul away all the dirt from the levees and stop pumping the canals you would have sheet flow even with the canals there , that is what i mean - 750 million to just knock the dirt down or 850 million to haul it away. thus cheapest way out.

T.R.

You both seem to have valid points. Can either of you tell us if ANYONE has made sure someone from SFWM or COE or Broward County or Big Sugar or The Sod Farmers or the other 6 million people living in south florida have read what you have to say. It may or may not make a difference but at least if you had a way or web address to forward all this to then maybe someone with some power may see all the concern and suggestions and take them into concideration.

What the heck are you guys talking about. Will we be able to fish there or not?

Man I'm glad to see all the interest in this subject. Please go to the meeting tonight and voice your opinions. The Coe has adopted an adaptive management plan to restore the Everglades that is a trial and error method. I haave asked to COE to please use the least invasive method first as anything done will be hard to redo once it is in place. Phase 1 calls for filling in the Miami Canal and we have asked them to reconsider, as this is most invasive. As far as water flow is concerned, if the water controll structures that are in place now on the South and east sides of WCA 3 A&B are left closed they will not convey water. But they will be there if the need arises, dIf they are destroyed along with the canals, then there is a potential of no flood control. The largest problem with Restoration in the cost, which is going up daily, and will continue to do so. We have offered less costly alternatives t the COE and hope they choose to listen to us.
Again, I hope you go to the meeting tonight 16835 Sheridan Street 6 PM Southwest Regional Library and speak up....

Is the meeting tonight or tomorrow (8/23/07)?

WOW - Someone said about two weeks ago that this site was dead. I beg to differ. It has changed into something better. This thread is exactly the point I was trying to make. Tournament results are great and fishing reports are great. But in the end, we really stimulated thought and promoted action consistent with all of our mutual goals. I have never seen so many new names as I have recently, including the guys who posted from the last tournament.

Two years from now, we are gonna have a whole lot more places to fish and post reports about.

I also think that fishing reports will become common again as the new season kicks in in November.

Great thread, guys.

Bart

PS. Danny - who are you and how do you know so much about the plans? Great info, even though I hate hearing your valid points. L-67 is just and awesome place when you hit it right.

PSS. Castoff - What's this about a ramp at Sawgrass? Are they gonna fix it and if so, the one on 27 or the one at the park?

The COE meeting is tomorrow night aug. 23rd at 6 PM at the Southwest Regional Library 16835 Sheridan Street This is the place and time to express your views.
Sawgrass Ramp- Jon Fury FWC has the funds to rebuild the ramp at sawgrass he's only waiting for permission from DEP or DERM, I can't rememberr which. It will be done but everything to do with Government takes time.
Good noew/Bad news--lGood news, BASS sent the check for the grant to build the chickee.
Bad news- They sent it to the wrong address.
I notified Chris Horton this morning, and they put a stop payment on the check and will reissue a new one right away

We're working on getting more ramp improvements soon, I'll keep you posted on our progress.

I forgot, it's the ramp in the park !!!