I need some feed back on a new team trail I am planning on Lk.Istokpoga. With Lake O fishing so bad right now , It will be a change to go there and catch fish. I know alot of you are in South Fla but even for you guys it will be a good change of pace to have a trail to fish that will pay out decent money and will be a change from the Glades and Big O. Here are the particulars. Let me know what you think. I will try to include all info. If I miss something or if you have any questions you can e mail me at mkrause0096@yahoo.com.

100% PAY BACK for ALL EVENTS !!!!!

I have tried to schedule around events being held on Okeechobee and Istokpoga. There are to many events being held in South Fla to try to schedule around. Sorry in advance if I coincide with any other events. Events are:
Feb 8 , Mar 8 , April 12 , May 10 , June 7 , July 12 , Aug 9 and the Classic will be Sept 12 & 13. All events are the Second Sunday of each month EXCEPT June and the Classic will be the 2nd Sat. and Sun. of Sept. All events will be from safe light until 2:00pm .

All events will be launched from the County Park located on Hwy 98 unless you are notified in advance of a change.

This is a TEAM event. You must have a partner. NO ONE FISHES ALONE !!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS !!!!!!! You may use an alternate for 2 qualifing events. If you have to use a alternate for the classic , It must be an alternate that was used in one of the qualifing events.

$70.00 per team entry. $10.00 optional Big Bass Pot. Total for both is $80.00 for each qualifing event.

There will be 7 events then the classic. You must fish 5 of the 7 events to qualify. You will have the option to buy 1 event to qualify you for the classic. ( fish 4 , buy 1 ,total 5 and still be qualified for the classic). NO EXCEPTIONS !!!!

The Classic will be a 2 day event. Entry will be $140.00 for both days and a $20.00 optional Big Bass Pot.

ALL prizes listed below are based on 20 boats and will be adjusted accordingly to the number of boats entered.

Big Bass Pot will be paid in 2 places. 75/25 split (Example $200.00 taken in will pay out 1st BF $150.00 and 2nd BF $50.00. Classic Big Fish Pot will be a $20.00 optional pot. There will be a 1st $150.00 and 2nd $50.00 Big Fish award for each day. ALL PAYOUTS WILL BE ADJUSTED ACCORDING TO NUMBER OF ENTRIES INTO THE BIG FISH POT. 100% PAYBACK !!!!!!

Payout for Qualifing tournaments will be as follows : $70.00 entry fee. $5.00 from each entry will be held for the Classic fund. $65.00 each boat will be paid out on the day of the event. Pay out will be 1 place paid for every 5 entries. Sample payout based on 20 boats : $65.00 X 20 boats = $1300.00
1st $650.00 2nd $325.00 3rd $245.00 4th $80.00
$5.00 X 20 boats = $100.00 toward Classic Fund. 7 Qualifing events = $700.00 toward the Classic.
ALL PAYOUTS WILL BE ADJUSTED BASED ON NUMBER OF ENTRIES !!!!!!

Classic will payout as follows : $140.00 X 20 boats = $2800.00 plus $700.00 from qualifing events = $3500.00 payout. We will pay out 10 places based on a 20 boat field.
1st $1250.00 2nd $700.00 3rd $450.00 4th $250.00 5th $200.00 6th $175.00 7th $150.00 8th $125.00 9th $100.00 10th $100.00. AGAIN ALL PAYOUTS WILL BE ADJUSTED ACCORDING TO NUMBER OF ENTRIES. !!!!!!!

Boat number will be determined buy date entry is recieved. CASH or MONEY ORDER ONLY when prepaying !!! NO CHECKS NO EXCEPTIONS !!! CASH ONLY AT THE RAMP !!!!!! Upon recieving your entry I will need a email address and or a phone number to let you know I have recieved your entry and what boat number you will be.

I will have a complete record book at each event to show all records of the events. It will also have a complete sample payout sheet for payouts based on number of boats entered for anyone to look at anytime. I will also post all results and payouts within 5 days after the events on Network54.com . Each event will be advertised in the local area newspaper or Newszaps.com if available.

As everyone knows there will be some cost involved in running a trail such as scales , bags , tables , flyers and newspapers. I will incur all those costs. In return I will be allowed to fish with my partner all events without paying a entry fee.. (No garanteed money from the trail just a chance to fish)

If I have left anything out please e mail me at mkrause0096@yahoo.com or post here. I look here daily.

I am not looking to profit anything. I just love to fish and love the competition. All suggestions will be taken into concideration.

Guys, I have to tell you, with all the damn tourneys and "trails" going on, it makes it nearly impossible for someone to commit to one, if any...it simply is getting so watered down, that it is ultimately going to turn more people off to fishing any tourneys. I want to commit to one team trail this year and simply cannot figure it out! Amidst all the finger pointing on the payout issues, there were some of you who seem to agree with this saturation, correct? I am all for supporting the local fisheries and tournaments, but why fish any of these if they are simply going to keep getting watered down with the quality and quantity of participants? Just seems they are cannibalizing each other.

I see your point Steve and I am not trying to take away from anyone or any trail. I am just offering a trail that will pay back 100% of the money taken in. Like I said alot of the guys are in South Fla and alot of the trails that are reffered to here are in South Fla. I just thought if there was one available that would have no membership fees , hidden cost or that only paid back 70-85% of the money taken in that it might be something that some might be interested in. Like I said , I am not here for any profit. Just an affordable trail that pays back 100% of money taken in ands a great day on the water. Your point is well taken , understood and appreciated.
Far too often you hear all of the finger pointing and negitivity about this trail or that one. I am not looking for any of that. I am looking to fish and have fun and just maybe pay for gas. I am one that feels that if someone has all of the information about a tournament , he or she can decide to fish or not. If they dont want to fish this one , thats fine , no hard feeling and I may see them at someone else's event down the road.

I see your point as well and it is well intentioned. I just get frustrated because I know so many of us want to fish as many of these as we can, because we too, share the passion for competitive fishing, but there simply is not enough time to do them all, regardless of conflicting tournaments. The only problem is that there are SOOO many choices now and I just see it getting watered down is all. I do have an out of the box idea though. It would be nice if all the veteran guys who put these on (Fred, Luke, BLM) would possibly consider pooling together one night over "pops" and see what the possibility would be in doing just one or two trails and making them sexy enough for everyone to fish them....bigger turnouts, better talent, bigger payouts, etc. Just leverage all the great experience out there in this area from fisherman and those talented individuals who take the time to put on the local events. Hell, I'd buy the meal for those attending, just to see if this would even be possible. Just a thought.

Count me in, I'll fish it for sure.

...does this mean bell bottoms and platform shoes are coming back?

It seems there is a desire to go back...way back in time when most of us fished nothing but a club event to feed our competitive natures.

But even those club events were'nt 100% paybacks. Those clubs had to make something to further their own efforts too. How long do you think it will take to offer 100% paybacks before some one becomes leery of your ability or willingness to pay back everything paid in? It only took 2 events for us at HT3 this year! We paid back "over 100%" in cash and merchandise and were still viewed negatively in that series.

There seems to be a degree of "entitlement" expected by anglers (of which I am one)once they enter a competition. It's as though the angler has all the debt and the Director and / or Trail owner has none. As soon as you get started in that 100% payback trail, you'll see what I mean. Nobody will appreciate what you do for them and they'll show you. It will come in different forms, but they'll show you. Remember, I not only help in the "back office", I fish them as well. I see both sides every day...not just on tournament days.

For me...again, for me...without a similar set up as the one HT3 offered this past season, I don't expect 100% paybacks. Call it what you want, but I'd rather pay a security guard to watch my stuff even if he volunteered to watch it for free.

The earlier posts about watered down fields due to too many options is absolutely the reason we have struggled to get recognizable size fields anymore. How many of you are Ranger Cup? Triton Gold? Skeeter Bucks? It takes a 60 boat minimum in these incentive programs. The boat companies love the fact that Florida is so splintered that they don't have to give away a dime down here anymore. You bought their boat. You joined the program. But there's no chance to collect, realistically. HT3 pays for your ability to win extra money above and beyond the advertised payout (not 100%, but darn good)with Triton and Skeeter and hopefully soon Ranger. It costs money to do that.

If we all "just want to compete" as we hear so much, can we assume "we all just want to win" fits as well? Why "just compete"? Why not win or at least try to win? The fact is, we all leave the dock hoping for that, I know.

So, with all that being said, yes, we have events at Istokpoga as well as other lakes in that area. If the competition bass fishing is reduced to little "get togethers" and the numbers continue to dwindle for trails and tours such as ours, you can expect to be pushed around much easier by those that don't want any of us on "their lakes" in the near future. It won't take long for that to happen...

D.D. I respect your opinion and appreciate the fact that you run or are involved in a trail. The difference betweem me and HT3 is , I am not here to make money and am not taking anything from the pot or membership dues or any sponsors or anything like that. IT WILL BE 100% PAYBACK of all monies paid in and I will have ALL the records available at each event to show that it was. Dont take anything I have said personal or that I am putting HT3 down in any way. I'm not. I have fished HT3 events and enjoyed them also but times are hard and I am just giving fisherman a tournament that WILL PAYBACK 100% GARRANTEED. I will say the same to you as you have to others , Please come join us for an event to see the results for yourself.

D.D. , One thing I just thought of and want to clarify. If everyone read my original post , I said I will incur ALL cost's for putting this trail together and I will. The ONLY thing I ask is for me and my partner to be allowed to fish each event without paying an entry fee. I guess some could say that is payment. And I guess if I were to win or even place in one of the tournaments it could be concidered that but thats the ONLY thing I ask as far as making anything from this.
Once again I am not in any way putting you , HT3 or ANY other trail down. I am just offering a little something different.

FM...it's not that I, HT3, or anybody else doesn't want you to have a trail of your own, whether it's 100% payback or not. If you are going to have a trail...use a # of participants that one should expect from a 100% payback. Show them what the payback would be with 60 or 80 or even 100 boats. That should get their attention! Twenty boats does nothing more than weaken fields of other larger, established trails.

Remember FM, a 100% payback doesn't mean all the entrants get paid...it just means those that cash get a little more. Ask just about anyone before they fish an event or series if they thought 15-20% recapture by the host trail or tour is a fair trade for all the planning and execution of an event or series of events along with press, pics, web info, lunch at times, free soft plasic samples, etc. etc. etc. and I'll bet they will agree that indeed, it is.

In your sample payback, look how many teams go away empty handed. Not your fault...but remember, there is far greater failure than success in any tournament field. Those are the ones that remember the little extras more so than those who cashed.

A "simple" little ole 100% payback trail is more "simple" than "100%", and it won't take long to hear that around the ramp before take off. You're still gonna have more failure than success at the end of the day (in terms of the field).

We're working on a payback schedule that will pay deeper at the expense of a front loaded 1st place prize. More anglers will get a check and at the end of the day...more will be happy with the results (we hope).

Look at some of the recent results of "Classic" events FM. Extreme guaranteed 10K and had only 40 interested enough to show up. We just had a "Classic" with no hold over monies from the season and offered 10K with at least 70 competing...we got 30. Our Summer Slam had $2560.00 carried over to their "Classic"...12 showed for that one. Our "Angler of the Year" had no entry and a $2500.00 winner take all at a neutral lake with a major off limits and no prefish. 20 were qualified...16 showed. The $700.00 you show as carry over based on 20 boats...isn't gonna mean squat at the end of the day FM.

As it was stated earlier...it's way too "watered down" to expect anything worthwhile. Ultimately, it does more harm than good. But that doesn't mean we all shouldn't be accountable for our paybacks! We dropped our membership fees last year. That was a big help for operating expenses and we chose to do without it in an effort to lessen the burden on the angler(s). A lot of these trails fail to realize how much is spent by indivduals and teams wanting to fish and paying those fees to each seperate entity. It adds up big time. So, we stopped the "membership fee" for HT3 events.

I knew I should have held on to those platform shoes!!!

HEY, DAVE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT GIVING SOMEBODY SOMETHING FOR FISHING. MY SPONSORS ALLOW ME TO GIVE SOME PRODUCT OUT FOR MY NIGHT TOURNAMENTS. AND I CHOOSE TO GIVE IT TO GUYS THAT ARE NOT IN THE MONEY. AND I THINK IT IS A GOOD TOUCH WHEN YOU PAY A $70.00 ENTRY AND GET $15.00 DOLLARS WORTH OF LURES IS NOT A BAD IDEA. AND BELEIVE ME I TRIED THAT 100% PAY BACK FOR MY NIGHT TOURNAMENTS FOR YEARS. UNTIL LAST YEAR WHEN I HAD TO GET MY SCALE FIXED AND LOOK IT IS GREAT FOR FM26 TO BE ABLE TO THIS GOB BLESS HIM.

Luke next time you are in BHR let me know. I'd like to meet you. Thanks for the support.

D.D. , Like I said I appreciate your opinion and there are some things we will agree to disagree on. I dont want this to turn into another long drawn out thread between you and I about wheather it will hurt any other trail or not. I have posted everything about the trail and I am just looking for input from other anglers that may or may not want to fish. Every has an opinion and a choice based on the info that has been provided.
All I can do is tell each angler what is giong to happen and how the payouts will go and then show them after the event in black and white what was done and paid out after the events. I dont know of another trail that is willing to just show the records of there events which will include ALL funds taken in and ALL funds paid out.
I will say this and it is not directed to anyone in particular. I have learned form other trails what to do and what not to do. I have learned what good and bad publicity can do to a trail. I have learned to put everything out in the open for ALL to see and stand by what you advertise. I have learned that changing something in mid stream is not such a good idea and most of all to be honest and upfront with everything and the ANGLERS will decide whice event , when and where they will fish.It does sound a little like you dont want any new trails for fear that it may take away from one of yours or someone elses events. Once again , Thats not my intention at all. I hope you and all other trails have continued sucess and by doing the right things I know you will. Just Say what you do and DO what you say and all will be fine.
You did say something that I would like you to explain though , You said it is to watered down and will not be worth while and will do more harm than good. Tell me how a small trail that pays back 100% and is willing to show you that in black and white can do more harm than good. Once again I DONT want to be like some trails. I am NOT here to profit and I dont see how this will be bad for you or anyone else for that matter.
If you would like to talk to me directly please call me at 863-634-8191.
Thanks Mike.

Mike (FM)...All you have to do is read what Steve says early in this thread. And for the whiner that waits for me to post anything here...2 posts and I'm considered a "hijacker"? Is "Steve" a hijacker since he posted twice? Move along little boy... Back to you Mike. I re-iterated what Steve said. Does anyone read what I write from top to bottom? Didn't I say that the splinter-trails take away the opportunity to fish events with substantial fields? That's all...If you have no limit on entries Mike, what makes you think that your 100% payback trail will only garner 20 or so boats? Why wouldn't significantly more want to join you? But if you only want about 20 or so boats, then yes, you will splinter other larger trails (not just HT3!). The "Steves" of the tournament world aren't being served by that "watering down" of the fields.

You say that you'll try to stay off other events as much as possible...Commendable...but again as I said, at some point yours is on top another event that offers Triton Gold or Skeeter Bucks bonuses. When that winner doesn't get that bonus because another "splinter trail" was at another ramp that day and 17 boats showed up for that event while the larger event was short 4 boats for the bonus money...the only real winner will be the boat manufacturer. They get their cake and get to eat it too. I'm not trying to "blame" you Mike...at some point HT3 was a "splinter trail" to others and might still be viewed that way now. But there is a larger picture here. And if folks other than Steve can't see the forest for the trees...then we are going backwards.

Lastly, I will seek refuge behind the fact that you asked for feedback...that's where I came in...but I will call you later today if I get the chance...you see, Istokpoga is considered my home water and if you're not on our dates...well...

Thanks Castoff. If the decision is made to go ahead , I will post a schedule and all of the contact info.

Hope you do it !! You might want to contact Norman Lee at Lake Placid Marine, He's active in the lake ridge Bass Club, and knows everyone that fishes in Highlands County. :You also have dates on the same weekend with ABA and a few of us will fish both, Sat. & Sun. Good Luck...

FM26, my hat's off to you. If you're going in without big expectations, you cannot fail. I ran a similar monthly tournament in the mid-eighties. I bought the scale and it was 100% payback. It ran for about 2 years and we usually had 12-16 boats. Everyone had fun and it ran smooth as silk. Nobody was really really in charge. I just brought the scale and everyone else did the rest. I like your idea because it is simple and laid out for little questioning.
DD....fm26 started this thread. Stop hijacking it for your little rants!

The lake does have alot of fish in it right now and its a great place to fish,I like the idea of a Sunday tournament it gives me a day to rest and time to prefish the lake,I'M IN!!!!By the by how's the tournament going you put on I think its called Freedom Series Outreach I fished it a few times and loved the way the whole thing is set-up,No Games everything the anglers need to see as far as pay-out dates classic funds is all public knowledge and the people their are willing to show you and help you do anything,great tournament if I get my money right soon I will be back to that one!!!!I've never seen a group of people just get along with everyone and ready to take on evey situation,if your gonna try to do something like this on Istopokga I will be there.Keep on track your doing just fine and don't worry about eveyone else and what they say let's do it!!!

Thanks but Freedom Outreach Series is put on and run by The Freedom Outreach Ministries in Okeechobee. The only thing I have to do with that one is fish.Once in a while I will help out with the weigh in but thats all. My regular partner is a Tournament Director for that trail. It is a 70/30 split with 70% payout and 30% to the church.I have adopted some of the things they do such as having all the records of each event on hand at all times and having a sample pay out sheet there as well. That way there is no questions. There will also be a set of rules posted and handed out if needed to make sure there is no confussion on any rules. It has done well and is still being held on the last Sunday of each month. There next event is Dec.28 at Taylor Creek. We look forward to having you there. Shake our hand and introduce yourself. We'll do the same. Always a great time had by all.

Thanks. I am not looking to set the world on fire. NO expectations at all. Just looking forward to meeting everyone and doing my best to put on a great little event. Thats why I tried to use 20 boats as an example. If we have that , thats great. If we have 10 Thats great too. Look forward to seeing you there if you can make it.

Thanks. I have put in a call to Norman already and I am looking forward to hearing back from him. I understand that this will conflict with some events and I tried to not interfear with as many as possible. Sometimes you just have to set a date and hope for the best. I look forward to meeting you when and if you fish. Good luck at your other events.

GOOD LUCK AT ISTOKPOGA
ILL BE AT HOLIDAY PARK
WERE IT TAKES 30 LBS TO CASH A CHECK!
TO BAD THE FISH ARNT BITEIN AT THE LAKE LIKE YOU SAID!!
ALL THE TOURNAMENTS I FISHED BEEN TAKEN 20LBS TO WINN
SEEYA, AND GOOD LUCK AT IKP

Thanks Fred. We fished Christian Team Trail last weekend from Okee Tantie. Had 34 boats. 21 didnt weigh a fish. Took 9.78 to win. Top 6 bags were 9.78 , 9.59 then 2 bags around 7.5 and 2 bags around 6.5. Big fish was 4.9. See ya soon. Let me know when the park bags get to 30#. Ha Ha.

I sure hope you dont listen to one word this hijacker said in those long drawn out rants. he thinks istapogga is his home lake, but when we tried to keep ht3 out of the park or the "O" he defended it being there and im glad its over. wants his cake and eat it too. Platform shoes my asss. Yea if people put on trails with 100% payback, thats old fasion. This guy has never posted one thing on this site that didnt have somthing to do with getting more boats to fish ht3. but in reallity he just made people turned off to it.

oh, wait a minute. I hear someone typing another long and meaningless rebuttal!

...you guys must not mind having them read to you.

...no, I don't type this sh** to get more anglers to fish HT3. I type this sh** to expose the type of people you are. My biggest mistake is not realizing that those who know you...already know the type of people you are. They probably don't like me reminding them that they know you and the as* that you are.

Your drivel sounds typical of an ex-angler that couldn't hack it and you had to find some reason not to fish to save your homely as* face. I don't give a rat's as* about punks like you and you know that, and that what pisses you off most. That I don't coddle punks like you. If you need that, stick to team tournies and bring your mommie.

Istokpoga is my home lake...wanna fish?

Or how about standing behind your smack talk? Get out from behind your mommie and tell everyone who you are. Otherwise, you're a

nobody.

FM GOOD LUCK. BUT WHERE IS ALL THE HOLIDAY PARK MOBSTERS THAT BITCHED AND MOANED THAT EXTREME, HT AND OTHER TRAILS WERE COMING TO "THEIR WATER". AND THE JOY EXPRESSED EVERYTIME THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL IN WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS RUNNING ANOTHER TRAIL OUT OF TOWN. I CAN ONLY HOPE THE FELLAS AT ISTOKPOGA TREAT YOU BETTER THAN SOME OF THE VERY GUYS ON THIS THREAD TREATED OTHER TRAILS THAT DARED TO COME TO "THEIR WATER". D.D. YOU MAKE GOOD POINTS, YOU SHOULD MAKE A FEW OF THEM ON YOUR WEBSITE FORUM TOO!

Pat???

You're right. The biggest reason I do my bidding here is because of a particular poster than goes to great lengths to bash anything HT3 and then goes on to bash...anything period. We don't have the sort of commentary going on there that is commonplace here. This site is great for lots of things, but it can get heated up real easy!

I guess it may have become a bit of a game with me, but I won't just let some one make baseless commentary designed to hurt a business for nothing more than what he does it for.

I didn't fight a lot growing up. I stepped in the middle of plenty of them, but I did so because some one had made their point or some one was being picked on simply because they were able to be (picked on).

IP...42.31 is one of those "bullies" that I love(d) to confront and put him in the "receiving" line instead of the one he was always at the front of.

The fishing there is great, most of the time and holiday park is a **** canal and anyone can catch fish there and istokpoga is real lake. They catch bigger fish there then holiday park can dream of.