This forum is for discussion of any of the material that is currently up on the Truly Rural website. Currently there are two different ezines hosted, a small selection of gaming articles and downloads, misc fiction, a little humor and whatever else comes to mind.
This forum used to be the Prison of Flesh Kult forum. But with the establishment of The Last Cycle it is no longer needed for that. All the old posts were kept in case anybody feels like digging through them.
My opinion - The Abyss and The Elders
by Sharon Silva
As I was doing my usual check of The Abyss and what's going on, I noticed an eruption of an argument taking place.
I can't stand to think that people like Voidmind (or, as he proved himself as DEVOID of MIND) are running The Abyss. It's a joke to think that he is so precious, that he isn't willing to share his work for the fear of his 'masterpiece' being stolen. And, Voidmind, if you want to reply to this, please do.
About kult games being mixed with others and it being a mistake, all I can say to you is that you have never tried, or the attempt you made failed. Maybe you ought to put the onus of the failiure onto your poor GM or poor game-play as opposed to the "crap" of mixing games together. If you read the other half of the argument, you will clearly see that andy wasn't totally in favour of it either, he just suggested something for his site.
Let's keep in mind, that role-playing is about freedom of expression. You havn't got to go to their site and have their ideas put upon you. So don't ram your views on all of us!
As for elders, what the hell is all that about, huh? How does one become an elder? Is is not rather presumptious to assume that you are an elder?
Tell me, do you see yourself as some kind of leader? A voice of the forum, perhaps. Remember, you co-wrote the site - you didn't invent the game.
Voidmind, you lose site of the joy of role-playing, and appear to be trying to turn it inso some divine plateau of your own.
You are indeed not small minded though.....
But you are the most closed-minded, pretentious, rude, arrogant and thoroughly boring person it has been my displeasure to hear of.
Well so it begins eh? If you also read, it was Andy who launched the 'small-minded' trip and now this fire has flamed out of control with sides taken and everyone putting in their two cents to take down Voidmind and indirectly myself. My replies to him (Andy) were stating facts of what happened - this constant barrage of hate towards those who created what you're (all in general) bitching about is simply out of place. I don't go there, nor do I intend to. Kult is an intelligent game - my statements were informed opinion, as opposed to being uninformed. I cannot speak and will not speak for Voidmind, nor do I intend to get so personal in hate. I wouldn't waste my time. Voidmind, however, if you read the flow of events, got personal when Andy decided my mind was small.
My reasons for not offering my work stem from this FACT alone: I couldn't care less about personal crossovers, but history has shown that OFFICIAL ones didn't work for Kult and I stated so. My reasons if I would pull my work would be for that reason. Kult is Kult. I never implied I would simply pull my work if Andy or another took over. To infer I would based on other's flames is quite frankly in err.
The Abyss was a collective, it changed through several hands during its days of inception. When I took over from my role as primarily Graphic Designer, I did so with the basis of making damn sure I wasn't strictly at the helm and informed everyone constantly, replied to each and every mail, offered support, advice, counselled with others of the 'Old Guard', arranged communities of translators, and gave a lot of my time each month... and it all comes down to being called small-minded. Just remember, The Abyss died because of the people who read it. I didn't want to run a 'Jason Just' Cenotaphium, which is exactly what the final issue that never saw the light of day would have been.
Chinese Whispers are great, especially when laced in such digs and inuendo's. I have no doubt, this will be followed up by a roll of abuse...
I think it is truely amazing that this has become personal assults on the people who kept the faith, kept working not only on keeping the Abyss alive, but the hope that there would be a new printer. The Abyss was in some ways a symbol of hope for the people who liked KULT. Instead of giving Jason and the others flack, we should be thanking them.
So, please, don't call them small-minded. I happen to agree with them that the Abyss should be focused on the promotion of KULT, not crossovers. That does not mean I don't want to see how people make crossovers work- we had a nice conversation in Oct about different approaches to cyber-KULT. They are great, and a lot of fun, esp. for game masters who cannot get people to play KULT with them. So I see why they are useful. Additonally I like that some people have extended the KULT mythology to other parts of modern myth.
I completely agree with Rhua about Abyss role in keeping faith alive. Don't forget that if we could download new sourcebooks for our favorite RPG when the RPG itself was dead... if we could get new material is thanks to Jason and the Abyss staff.
If someone wants to crossover (as we all did some time, i.e. I crossovered Kult and Unkwnown Armies) he is free to do it. But Kult remains a masterpiece itself that don't need some official adjustements in his setting, and the Abyss is for the promotion of KULT RPG.
Ok......Abyss....two more cents(i thought that meant "my opinion")
by !mpact the Nepharite
I did never say (or mean to say) that voidmind was the wrong person to keep the abyss running....quite the oposite i would think it to be excellent if he ran(run?) it...HOWEVER....
I DO object against MOVING the site and make it A PART of some OTHER site!
My opinion is that it makes more use whee it is NOW than as part of another site...this is why i wrote that i thought it better if laura and andy took over the abyss, as they are willing to pay the money for it aswell....the abyss is and should continueto be a site where Kultists can write and promote their own materials...
Ok, this topic about The Abyss and who wants to keep it, burn it, buy it, deform it its getting heavy. It wasnt Voidmind who started it, it was Andy.
I simply dont get it. Kult is coming back in print and not because of The Abyss, and you are all preaching around about this. Keep the site as it is now, if there is someone who wants to submit FAN fiction then he must be able to do it, if the owner of the site cant pay for the registration then someone else will, Im sure about that. Hell, I would pay for the entire registration and everything else, and I would let people put their fiction about Kult but Kult alone, not other games.
And one more thing about this...The Abyss is not the only Kult related website, there must be at least 20 sites about our favorite game and I believe we all know them pretty well. Its pretty clear that if The Abyss dont accept your work there, fine, search another Kult site, someone will accept it.
Ok about the other topic (btw, I wasnt flaming you Sharon, what I just said was for the general public of the forum) about crossover. In this case I agree with you.
Kult is a masterpiece just the way it is. It doesnt need to be changed. But I think every GM of every rpg out there changes rules and settings to fit their sessions. I love Kult and SLA Industries, I believe they are masterpieces as books, not just great rpgs. But while reading them I think about the stuff about adding and changing some subjects, I dont believe thats wrong at all.
And for the "elders"...well, I not see myself as an elder, I know this forum since years, and Im everyday at #kult.rpg but that doesnt make me an "elder". But I can tell you that the people who support this forum since the beginning also tried to get new people here and show what Kult is. Elders sounds like elitist and in this case is totally incorrect.
I can get personal... the point of the whole ball of wax if you will
The Abyss is dead.. period, after it's gone, if you (whoever) all want to buy the name, pay the regs and the hosting fees and do what you will, then more power to you and good luck.
I personally won't have any part of a site that mixes crap with Kult
That is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
>>I can't stand to think that people like Voidmind (or, as he proved himself as DEVOID of MIND) are running The Abyss. It's a joke to think that he is so precious, that he isn't willing to share his work for the fear of his 'masterpiece' being stolen. And, Voidmind, if you want to reply to this, please do.
I never said I Ran the Abyss... learn to read
And I also never said it was My work.. I am merely putting a voice to those of us who haven't spoken, both convos between Jason and I and other people who no longer use this forum, people you probably don't even remember.
>>About kult games being mixed with others and it being a mistake, all I can say to you is that you have never tried, or the attempt you made failed. Maybe you ought to put the onus of the failiure onto your poor GM or poor game-play as opposed to the "crap" of mixing games together. If you read the other half of the argument, you will clearly see that andy wasn't totally in favour of it either, he just suggested something for his site.
Actually, you assume much and know little.. how very typical
for one you have never been in a game I have run, nor do you know shit about my style of play.
I never tried to mix Kult with anything, and if I had it certainly wouldn't be the corporate, overdone, cliched bullshit that White Wolf pumps from it's pores in order to generate money... The whole point was and Is..
I can't stand White Wolf... again I'm entitled to my opinion.
don't like it? you are entitled as well.. so blow me.
>>Let's keep in mind, that role-playing is about freedom of expression. You havn't got to go to their site and have their ideas put upon you. So don't ram your views on all of us!
So I guess only you can do that?
And here all this time I thought a forum was a place to discuss people views and opinions? damn was I ever wrong apparently.
>>As for elders, what the hell is all that about, huh? How does one become an elder? Is is not rather presumptious to assume that you are an elder?
I assume nothing, Jason Myself Jhaz Peter J.Thompson and a few of the others have been here clawing and scraping since the beginning, since Kult stopped being published
The Majority of you joined up WAY after this.
The Elder comment, if you can read, was an inside joke, not only speaking of the fact that we have been here longer, but also alluding to Tribal culture, of which I tend to think of the more intelligent members of this community...
>>Tell me, do you see yourself as some kind of leader? A voice of the forum, perhaps. Remember, you co-wrote the site - you didn't invent the game.
See Above.. I didn't co-write anything, I have merely had the pleasure of helping out though the hard times, trying to give a little inspiration to those who were running it (I.E. Jason, Just and Thompson and the others) when they felt that the Abyss was failing it's purpose.
None of you have shed anything for the Abyss, so you couldn't understand, and sadly never will. As I said this site drained us, we have shed blood and tears for this Site, so pardon us if we feel a bit angry when others come in and try to tell us what is best.
I do so miss the other Elders... I know they would feel the same way.
>>Voidmind, you lose site of the joy of role-playing,
I have indeed, and it's people like you that have turned me into this, I lost the Joy of Kult when it died the first time, I regained it, then I lost it again when Brian and the others argued on copyright
I had regained it once more when I heard the news of a new printing....
Now I feel it slipping through my fingers yet again as I find myself argueing with people who don't and will never understand apparently what the Abyss was, nor what it meant to us.
>>and appear to be trying to turn it inso some divine plateau of your own.
**Simply laughs**
>>You are indeed not small minded though.....
>>But you are the most closed-minded, pretentious, rude, arrogant and thoroughly boring person it has been my displeasure to hear of.
pretentious, rude, arrogant I will completely agree with that...
However if you'll pull your head out and actually talk to me in a more human manner and not resort to this childish behavior of flaming people you don't know, you'd find I was actually one of the more Open minded and non boring people. but then at this point I could care less about you ever finding out what kind of person I can be and I will let you keep this final opinion of me.
Don't like me? Fine, then I expect you to ignore me, because you can be sure I'll be ignoring you.
See I don't need to flame... I'm mature enough to know both when I am beaten and when to quit fighting.
I have the friends I made here years ago, and as much as I hate to close the door on what I see as a potential friend, I feel I must.
So to those who wish to remain here, so be it.
Thanks for all the bandwidth, farewell, I hope you all succeed at what you strive for.
I go away for a couple of days, and look what happens.
I'm just going to state some things here. I'm not sure what my point is, or if I even have one...
Did anyone read what's posted up underneath the banner that Voidmind created for peteramthor's forum?
"Dedicated to intellegent discussions,debates and establishing contacts to other players of the Kult RPG and CCG. Also welcome are discussions on other horror RPGs such as: Rapture: The Second Coming, Call of Cthulu, and all other horror/conspiracy/etc role-playing games. <snip> Any suggestions for this forum please just post them."*
As I read this, I take it to mean that if I want to discuss a crossover between White Wolf products (they are horror designed, if not listed in the quote), KULT, In Nomine, and Dark Conspiracy, I can damn well do so.
And Voidmind and Andy can call me an idiot for doing so. It'd be nice if they didn't call me an idiot, rather stating that they don't think it's a good idea and included ideas to show their point.
I also read it to mean that if I want to mention my Origins setting that was inspired by the KULT/WoD crossover, I can do so, and be called an idiot, except that that is not considered intelligent discussion.
It also means that we can talk about games that aren't used with, for, or by KULT. Dark Conspiracy, Witchcraft, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Call of Cthulu, or Rapture, Armageddon, or Wraith, or...
And if I look at the Abyss, it tells me that all works remain Copyright the Original Author, except when it conflicts with the ownership of the KULT game.
I quote "Cenotaphium Issue 2: Axiom Cysticercosis, page one..."
"NOTE: The Abyss stands by artists who contribute to The Abyss and will aid them and provide legal defense should a breach of copyright be made. The Abyss claims no copyright of author/artist material. Any parties interested in reprinting the content contained within Cenotaphium or any other Abyss release should contact the author/artist for agreement. In these cases The Abyss can act as liason for said parties."**
Yet, I know of at least one occassion that the Abyss was to the point of hiring a lawyer, due to a copyright infringement that was occurring half the world away (literally!), against one of their authors and an artist.
And! people have bragged that they download Jason Just's pictures and make T-shirts out of them. That is, and will be, copyright infringement. Many of you may not know of such things happening, but it's true. Yes, he could try to legally go after said people, but it's probably not worth the monetary aspect of it, for him, at the moment.
I have never contributed a single, damned thing to the Abyss, other than support in the written word. During the last meetings of the Abyss and its fans, I was there. I was there to watch peteramthor and Jason Just wait for other fans to show up and contribute ideas. I was there to tell them how much I appreciated their works. I was there and witnessed their disappointment that very few others were contributing articles and artwork. Others were there as well. You know who you are.
But, I didn't contribute a damned thing. So, I'm as much at fault as you are, and you are, and you are.
Recently, folks have begun developing and wanting to submit articles to the Abyss. This is great!
Have you submitted your works to the comptrollers of the Abyss? Did you get a response?
Yes? Good, you know what the situation is, then. (I don't. If I need to know, I will be told.)
No? Then submit to someone else's site, damnit! Hell, even if you did have your works accepted by and web-published by the Abyss, you can still submit your works to other sites. Spam it across the internet, let everyone see it. Then, you can get critiques from all sorts of people. Put different artwork in it on the different sites. Use different lay-out structures. Or keep it all the same.
Try submitting it the new publishers of KULT!!!
It's your work. It's your copyright. Do with it as you will.
Also keep in mind that the Abyss is "owned" by a group of individuals, to do with as THEY please. Maybe they don't like your ideas and haven't posted them. They didn't like mine, and didn't post them. But, they were nice enough to explain why, when I politely asked. Remember, just because you think your work is the greatest thing since sliced bread, doesn't mean that other people do.
Personally, I think the Abyss is done. The game is coming back to print, hopefully sooner rather than later. And, THAT was the mission of the site.
Maybe the new folks involved with printing KULT will want to use some of what is at the Abyss for their upcoming releases. That would be way kewl. DJ Babb could have his works published, same for Jason Just's artwork, or Jason Thompson's works, or Bas Suverkropp, or Joel Sammallahti, or Jacinto Quesnel, or maybe I'll finally come up with something really good. The list goes on and on.
Did people over-react?
Maybe.
Has this been worse than any flamewar on rpg.net?
No.
Will I still post here?
When I feel the need.
Will I still be involved with www.bitterreign.com and Voidmind and Jason Just?
Sure. Why not? They didn't slight me.
Will I visit Andy & Laura's site?
Heck, yeah. It's always good to look at new folks' stuff.
Will I visit the new publisher's of KULT's site?
Yes, as soon as there is an English or German version. I don't read French.
I'm not taking anyone's side, but my own. I keep my own counsel. Always have, always will. I'm too narrow-minded to listen to other folks' opinions on what I should do in life.
I'm sorry if I dragged on. I kinda got going and going and going. I'm sure this has turned into a garbled mess. If I go back and try to re-organize it, it will only get worse.
I felt that I needed to speak up. I am but a small voice, but I matter to me.
And how do you think this looks to the new publishers of KULT?
And next time, ask for clarifications before you go throwing flames at each other, please?
So, has anyone picked up the Abominations Codex for Witchcraft, yet?
-oaxaca-
---
* copyright John Nixon.
The "NOTE" posted above is copyright the Abyss. No infringement was implied nor meant.
I don't know anyone here personally. So I don't get personal. In defence of them or in flaming. I also don't know thier gaming skill and/or talents. I admire many people's web pages and ideas and respect thier creativity. They have the right to have pride in thier work and the direction they take things.
It pains me to see these kind of unproductive dicussions. However, flaming is a normal part of web life, so you just grin and bear it.
As for the "elder" term- it is used in a lot of 'tribes' that have people who have been around the block a few times- goths, hippies, punks, and deadheads have elders. It is a common enough term to say you have been in the "community" for a while. Some of these people have been active long before I began lurking. Others like FraterIV and Matt Boronson have since disappeared. They don't deserve any more respect than any other person in the community, with the exception of the fact that they have been here a long time.
Well, I was quite surprised to read the last posts..
U fans can create whatever u want..uu can mix Kult with WOD, with Cthulhu, with Toons (don't do it pleassssee :))
BUT, we'll NEVER mix Kult with another game. We'll never publish something to look like Wod... sorry..
I do remember Inphobia (I own it)..a good game don't need to be mixed with another, and we want to keep the old spirit alive..The world of Kult is rich enough to be the ground of its own sourcebooks.
WW created good games..I ST Vampire when it was released, I played a Stargazer during three long years, and I drove my ST mad playing my pookah...BUT it was something different..and I don't want to mix them both.
Of course, players and GM are always mixing rules and worlds, and ideas in their sessions...but, we, publishers won't do that..feel free to do so..but that won't help Kult, if Kult needs help..
I would like to thank here all the creators and runners of the Abyss. They did a great job, and they helped us a lot, sooo much....
This is our point. We bought Kult rights because we love this game, so we will try to respect its the soul.
AMBER "Neko"
I do agree with you. As I said in my other posts, Kult is Kult. I want kult to stay kult and not WoD. I am using the Shadowlands in Kult because I like them. I do not tell people 'hay, You must use these too' No, it is up to the person who is playing/running there games. kult is by far the best role playing game around and I for one would like to see it stay like that.
Uhm the post was meant as a question to laura and andy...
by !mpact the Nepharite
...and was regarding their updates on their OWN private site...I myself find that there are SOME elements that can be used FOR GM ONLY knowledge in WW games...for instance the garou society is a good thing to implement into a kult game IF you use it wisely AND if the players dont know WW. And the key is, AS ALWAYS IN KULT, never let the players know too much...
knowledge is power, power is life...I lack the power of knowledge so i scentence you to death...
I have two first edition Kult Rule books and a Legions of Darkness soursebook. They are all in ok condition, a little wear and tear, but still nice. Let me know if anyone would like them. The Rule books are $12 and the Legions of Darkness is $9 plus any shipping.
Hi everyone, just dropped in and saw all the angry posts. I just wanted to say that no matter what happens to the Abyss I will still be working on material to share with fellow players and will find a way for people to see it. Speaking of which, I have my e-mail attached to this post and will send my Arcology sourcebook to whoever wants to see it. Just drop me a line. If it is ever put up on the Abyss that will be cool to. I plan on finishing up another article/ sourcebook on a cult that worships Octopi by the end of January. I'm sorry to see all the mixed feelings over things the past few days. And, if and when the Abyss ends its current incarnation I want to say thank you to those who put in the time and effort for providing the site and the forum, and thanks to all the people who read and responded to my posts. Talk to everyone soon.
I am about to start a campaign. I am trying to bring the players into it as characters based on themselves. BUT I am having a hard time drawing the PCs into my story ideas. I feel i will either have to somehow force them into it, or have their characters based less around themselves than I had wanted.
Which way should I go? I am tempted to just change the characters, but I fill like that will be such a huge loss of material for personal psychological terror. Then again, I don't want the players to feel forced. ideas? opinion?
I tried this. My Players did not like it, as it struck too close to home (which was the point)and they stopped having fun. One of the biggest problems is that none of the players had heroic or high skills (after all, we were a bunch of Grad students). Again this is perfect in a Kult universe, but turned out to be a big downer for the players.
I guess the end point my players said was that they did not want to play themselves.
One suggestion is to keep a "kernel" of the player in the character- make them similar emough for the PCs to have a high degree of sympathy for them, but allow them to take the actual characters in other directions.
Somthing I did for another non-horror game that might be interesting for you to try as a way of getting the PCs to have a high personal stake in thier creations was a bit involved, but fun and it worked really well. I got a bunch of Psychological tests (these can be found in a good library or online) and had them fill out the forms as if they were thier characters. Having them think about thier characters in such an abstract way made my players get really into what makes the Character tick. They felt they "knew" them more as real people and felt thier motives and feelings more strongly.
1) I think it's very dangerous to let people play oneself in an horror campaign like Kult's..What will happen to the character, the player's subconcious may take it for real in a way or another..I had this trouble in Vampire..Kult is far more horrrible and too realistic..
2) Whatever they play, they will put a part of themselves, known or ignored in their character..so..:)
but it will be undercover
3) never oblige a player to play what he refuse obstinely to play.. u may open again old wounds, u ignore.. beware...
I have played an adventure before where we all played ourselves, or rather, dark versions of ourselves. We all had Dark secrets that we don't have in real life (at least if hope so).
It was probably the best roleplaying session I have ever had. It's the only time I have refused to walk home alone, and the guy who was walkin in the same direction confessed as much. We kept looking over our shoulders all the time as we walked to the bus.
It's actually a challenge in playing yourself, at least in Kult, since you will "experince" things that have never happened to you before, and its really hard to think of what you would do if something really weird actually happened to you.
But great fun though. I recomend going for the made up dark secret part, with the right dark secret you could get characters in the right direction (and then they do something you never thought about any way, as usual).
A group i played in experimented with this once
and although it sounds like a good idea initially it does present some major problems
most roleplaying systems just cant handle the subtleties of a real persons skills and (for want of a better term) attributes , this leads to difficulties making the characters , will your players agree with your rating of their intelligence say?...
also the actual game presented more difficulties , the situations presented too us were too bizarre for us to react to in a realistic way , i mean your normal reaction to a lot of Kult/horror situations is eventually going to be nervous collapse , and so the "correct" reaction from a roleplaying point of view is going to cause a lot of problems in the game, especially if you want to complete a scenario...the things you end up doing that are untrue to your character start to make the whole experience unsatisfying.
well i hope that was fairly clear
Leo!
I agree with you on the problems on making the character, especially the attributes. My group simply sat down and tried to compare ourselves to each other, but we never took it serously though. Then again, you dont need numbers for all attributes when you play yourself. There should never be an intelligence roll for instance, since the character (me) actually knows exactly the same thing as the player (me).
I suppose you have a point with the nervous collapse part. The adventure we played never got really weird, just a bit strange, so we never had this problem.
Well, we sat down and did it tonight. I thought I would fill you all in on how the char creation process went.
1) yeah, it was hard to actually quantify people. We just stopped caring too much, and just assigned rule of thumb numbers. It was strange, I thought we were going to have a much funner time making the characters, 2 of the 5 of us got pretty bored with the quantification. I am not sure if I mentioned it, but I am using a slightly modified Unknown Armies game mechanics system ( 4 attributes, descriptors, open ended skill list). What really was great was figuring out peoples motivations, obsessions, fears, etc. It was good for all of us and gave me a lot of ideas for material that would freak them out, but not screw up their heads. Some interesting things came up ( have you all ever really sat down and though about how freaky murky water is? How scary it is to be attacked by something in water? I didn't until tonight and I have added it to my top 10 lists of things that scare me )
2) we decided there were certain issues we were NOT going to touch. This means I am going to have to tone down the campaign, but I have to keep in mind, this is a group experience, not my own personal psychological experiment :P BTW, someone mentioned psychology tests and taking them from character's perspective: that's a great idea, I am definately going to do that.
3) We ended up with characters that were more or less based on their real life counterparts but with exaggerated qualities to make them a bit funner and extreme to play.
I also wanted to say that I once played a Vampire campaign where I played myself, and it was the most amazing RPG experience I have ever had, but it was also rather tame, especially in relation to Kult. If I had this to do over again, I might not have had the players base it so much on themselves. Maybe something in between where they model themselves, then tweak it with bonus points or something in order to let them create something they want to be.
And whoever said that there is a kernel of a person that will be reacting through the character, that is a very good point, and to a certain extent, so obvious and true. In fact, if someone had said that to me earlier, I probably would have not gone through all this extra character generation. Oh well, its done. Now we get to see what kind of game comes out of it.
First off, thanks for the responses and shared experiences, they were truly insightful.
Well, we sat down and did it tonight. I thought I would fill you all in on how the char creation process went.
1) yeah, it was hard to actually quantify people. We just stopped caring too much, and just assigned rule of thumb numbers. It was strange, I thought we were going to have a much funner time making the characters, 2 of the 5 of us got pretty bored with the quantification. I am not sure if I mentioned it, but I am using a slightly modified Unknown Armies game mechanics system ( 4 attributes, descriptors, open ended skill list). What really was great was figuring out peoples motivations, obsessions, fears, etc. It was good for all of us and gave me a lot of ideas for material that would freak them out, but not screw up their heads. Some interesting things came up ( have you all ever really sat down and though about how freaky murky water is? How scary it is to be attacked by something in water? I didn't until tonight and I have added it to my top 10 lists of things that scare me )
2) we decided there were certain issues we were NOT going to touch. This means I am going to have to tone down the campaign, but I have to keep in mind, this is a group experience, not my own personal psychological experiment :P BTW, someone mentioned psychology tests and taking them from character's perspective: that's a great idea, I am definately going to do that.
3) We ended up with characters that were more or less based on their real life counterparts but with exaggerated qualities to make them a bit funner and extreme to play.
I also wanted to say that I once played a Vampire campaign where I played myself, and it was the most amazing RPG experience I have ever had, but it was also rather tame, especially in relation to Kult. If I had this to do over again, I might not have had the players base it so much on themselves. Maybe something in between where they model themselves, then tweak it with bonus points or something in order to let them create something they want to be.
And whoever said that there is a kernel of a person that will be reacting through the character, that is a very good point. In fact, if someone had said that to me earlier, I probably would have not gone through all this extra character generation. Oh well, its done. Now we get to see what kind of game comes out of it.
I think this is the best way to roleplay. I had a game where we all played ourselves and it turned out to be the longest running adventure we ever had. It started in the Tsr marvel role playing system, ventured into champions, then gurps and finally Aberrant by white wolf.
Thoes systems you may not think are really horror systems but we had an involving storyline that put us in a realisitic situation that often made us really role play like never before.
We would be willing to Take over the running of the Abyss.
by
hi,
We would be more than happy to keep the abyss up and running. We have a great deal of time on the Internet and therefore would be able to update the page weekly if that was required. If anyone can help us please call e-mail us or post a response.
It would be a shame for the Abyss to go out of business now that kult is on it's way back.
This would be great, I myself don't have that much time on the net, but I am making TWO sourcebooks(slow progress though); Voudoun & Host:angelic sourcebook.
If there is ome action on the Abyss I would be compelled to make them faster....
it's not just time that we are concerned with, it's also paying for the site itself... not just the domain registration renewal every year but also the costs of web hosting it
I've already got what was the abyss running on a subdomain at bitterreign.com as well as a new (connected) forum. I have lots of plans for this area (kult) as well as other darker games in print.
If anyone would like to see something there, please feel free to let me know and I will get right to work on it
The Abyss has now changed hands three or four times in it's short history, something frankly I'm getting tired of, which is one of the reasons I decided to do what I am doing on bitterreign. Alot more stable In my opinon
Nothing personal mind you, I just think that having it change hands again would be a mistake.
Thanks for the response, but still we feel The Abyss would benefit from a change of hands. We understand the issue from your perspective, that The Abyss has changed hands more times than is preferable. You are right. But with this comes the view that The Abyss was changed into the wrong hands. It is indeed not just a question of time, but also the financial constraints that come with it. We agree. But we feel that we are more than capable of dedicating the time and money required to run this site - after all, no update in 7 months is absolutely pathetic. I think this is a view shared by many readers of The Abyss.
We also wish you all the luck for your site, and hopefully we can link eachother's sites.
Well, The Abyss never achieved its goal. You haven't been around to know or even check what our mission statement was, which was getting Kult back into print. The Abyss was not run as a 'free for the kultists' site or as a support site for Kult. That was not its original intent. Kult is now back in print, and as much as you'd wish to take it over, I look at your intentions with some concern. For one I am less inclined to allow my work to be used by The Abyss if it shifts into hands I know not - and if it goes ahead, well, this forum has seen copyright issue brought up - this includes the site's webgraphics. I cannot speak for the other artists (not just visual) involved. Two, the site is registered in one of the original co-ordinators hands who before my taking the helm had issues in real life to take care of and we have heard little from him since.
The assumption of taking it away from Peter is a little overzealous despite your good intentions. I'll say it again, The Abyss was never a 'support site' for gamers. If you want to set up one like you have, by all means feel free, but if you continue The Abyss under the supposed guise of its original intentions you will be in error. Kult has been licensed and it will be back in print. We'd never decided what would have happened to The Abyss once Kult got back in print, but we had hoped that The Abyss would work with new owners and that obviously never happened, nor will it as it seems.
It was dropped due to lack of interest, and I haven't seen interest in the game arise much more than it used to be.
'Pathetic' or not, I pulled from The Abyss because in the final days there were no submissions, little interest other than those who saw it as a support site for a game which is floundering. The Mission Statement we rigourously held to, and was a communual decision at the time.
The Abyss also followed the core tenets created by Gunilla & Michael of the original 1st edition (and includes Legions of Darkness). The 2nd edition was seen as a poor representation over the 1st and the supplements that followed. It was the original concept, not the spinoffs with Vampires and Werewolves and other boogeymen highlighted more - leave that in the hands of White Wolf.
Leaving vampires to White Wolf and leaving art to Dali.......Oh, and the Abyss....
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Our point was to help out the people who wanted to see the Abyss stay online. We were only trying to help.
As for not reading the mission statment. I have. I have been on this forum for a long time and I have seen the faith in the Abyss crumble. but if that is the way you would perfer it than fine.
I do know what the original concept was as I have both 1st and 2nd edition rulebooks right here.
warewolves and Vampires etc. I think it is a little small minded to say 'leave it to White wolf'. As I could say to you 'leave art to De konning, Dali or Ryden'. I think any new works for Kult are all to the good. crossovers may gain new intrests from people who did not know about Kult.
As for your art. I would be happy not to use it if it is a problem. I don't think it would effect the over all standard of the Abyss.
like anything. Missions change. the Abyss is a great site to have if only to keep 'Fan Submission' Together. As most sites seem to offer a submissions page but why have 'fan submissions' all over the net when there is a very good site giving this already.
I don't appreciate being called small minded. Werewolves never had a place in Kult. Wolvens are not Werewolves, that was something that came out of the player's guide. White Wolf is a serious 'hot potato' to many Kultists who do not live in America, not that I am implying anything, just that the tendency is to not mesh the two. I personally see any X-over as only being detrimental, despite any potentiality of drawing in new blood. White Wolf tried that back around issues #50 of Inphobia with a 4-series run of merging their games with Kult. It didn't work for Kult then, because shortly thereafter a few more sourcebooks, Target caved it in.
If you want to takeover The Abyss just for a fan site, I still would retract my work regardless. I do not wish to be associated with White Wolf, or merging a fansite I worked upon into a game I never intended to support. If you wish to takeover The Abyss, best you do it through the correct channels, speaking directly to those still at the helm, even if they are unable to be contacted. You should also do well to contact each and every person who contributed for their individual approval.
You have until March as I remember it. Then you can re-register the name and do with it as you will.
I have mailed a few people involved in the abyss. I hope to hear from them. Maybe I won't but at least I tried.
I want Kult to be Kult. I do not like too much of white wolf myself. I do not know what people in America think about White wolf as I am in England. I am using only wraith and that is very loose in relation to WoD works. I have Faeries but that is not from WoD, it is my own work.
I hope the Abyss does keep running. If I was running it, I can promiss you it would stay Kult and Kult alone.
I am sad to say his voidmind, but i'd say that the abyss s so rooted into (atleast) my mind that it wouldn't benefit from your site at all(allthough i DO like your site, thumbs up on THAT one). If money is a problem then just move it to another domain, with free space OR give the domain to laura and andy... I think that most of the people on here think that it would be a loss if the abyss as it is in its current state (except for the lack of updates) would be lost. Since I came in contact with this forum THROUGH the abyss MY view is that it should stay as a site of its own, PLUS it is a great site for us, up and coming GMs...
just my two cents on the issue...
"what CAN u buy for two cents ANYWAY!?"
Nepharite in a gun-store...
If we are going to be called small minded, then I will post here exactly what I have said to others on this issue via ICQ
"Moreso, I believe them to be little more than glory hounds"
"we run the Abyss, we're cool, be like us, play White Wolf games"
As I said, I feel sick to my stomach every time I see Kult and WoD crap mixed and merged, they don't belong together at all. Period. Why? because Kult is probably the single most original game written for one, while WW products take their ideas from cliched sterotypes and completely pervert them, so they can call it original.
I'll be the first to admit that WW games CAN be fun, but fun in a different manner
Saying that Pulling Jasons or any other contributors work from the Abyss will have no impact is false... firstly, if it wasn't for all of us, there would be no Abyss and there would be no Kult Forum here to discuss this on.
Don't forget that everything on that site has passed through his very talented hands, while other people have submitted work and others may have written a few sourcebooks, he (Jason) took all the time and effort to create them in a visually pleasing manner.
"Of ALL people to call small minded... christ"
"okay I'll join up with a group of people and single out the elders, then systematically insult them.. BRILLIANT!"
How much actual communication have you had with us? None, so before you go judging us, be sure you have your facts correct.
Jason, Peter and I have talked to each other for years now, our intentions were always in line with the others, Now you come along and call us wrong?
Where do you get off? We poured our hearts and souls into this, We expended energies unfanthomable to you, and now you come in and want to rip off our work?
This is the second time I have come into this forum and seen, what I believe is an inability to respond to a topic in a mature manner (IE Without Flaming someone) even though the topic may anger you.
So I'm done here, I'll leave this forum to a group of ripoff artists and potential Thieves.
Now to respond to Impact.
>>If money is a problem then just move it to another >>domain
Which is exactly what I have done, but with a different mission... The Abyss, which Jason noted already, was here to gain interest in a dead (Out of Print game) My mission as I have already said is to promote Darker games and that includes Kult first and foremost, by housing materials for these games, this includes Sourcebooks and perhaps a new newsletter in the future. The Abyss can still live, just under a different address and with constant updating (I paid for the domain and registration, I'll be damned if I just let it sit and rot)
Saying that it won't be the same is like saying your mother will change if she moves to another house.
>>it wouldn't benefit from your site at all.
That is your choice, I've always been one to say Do what thou will... if you don't feel that people can get something from my site, by all means don't go there... I'm sure I'll have enough traffic anyway.
If you wish to respond to me (In a mature manner hopefully) I can be contacted through e-mail or the forum I have on bitterreign
Firstly I do not play WW. I do agree that kult is the most original game I've seen. I do not like most of WoD and as I said in my last post, my wraith idears are not very much based in the WW works but my own.
I do agree that jasons work is very good but If he does not want his work to be on the abyss that is up to him. But with or without his work, we would still like to keep the abyss running.
I do not want to 'rip' off your work. They are yours alone. I just want to keep the abyss up and running.
I do not want to argue with people as we should be working together.
Kult is Kult and I would like to see it stay like that too. but just like so many other places SOME WoD stuff is good to use in Kult. Myself I do not like 95% of WoD stuff.
And Yes. the work put into the Abyss by you guys is great but you can not deny it has not been updated in 7 months so something is wrong.
When I talk about a Crossover, I mean it to be nothing more than.....
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I would hate to see Kult Crossed with WoD in print. kult is by far the best and is a perfect stand alone game.
when I speak of crossovers it is only in relation to works that may well appear on 'Tales from a neon city' in the near future. People can choose to read it or ignore it, do as you please.
I also do agree that if kult was Published as a WoD product it would be at a loss.
I can't wait to read the new kult books. Is there any dates for them yet?. thanks
remember all we wanted to do was keep the Abyss up and running.
I am sad to say his voidmind, but i'd say that the abyss s so rooted into (atleast) my mind that it wouldn't benefit from your site at all(allthough i DO like your site, thumbs up on THAT one). If money is a problem then just move it to another domain, with free space OR give the domain to laura and andy... I think that most of the people on here think that it would be a loss if the abyss as it is in its current state (except for the lack of updates) would be lost. Since I came in contact with this forum THROUGH the abyss MY view is that it should stay as a site of its own, PLUS it is a great site for us, up and coming GMs...
just my two cents on the issue...
"what CAN u buy for two cents ANYWAY!?"
Nepharite in a gun-store...
As a long-time lurker, I can recall all of the early discussions on buliding the Abyss on the listserver and this forum. Until recently, I never felt I had the time/experince to contribute in a productive manner. However, I rember the lofty ideals behind the Abyss and bringing about the rebirth of the Book format.
This suceeded-perhaps not due to the Abyss, but the books will be back in print.
I have a questions-
How much does the domain name cost? I would be willing to shell out the reqired funds to keep the domain name, since I have never finshed writing anything down on paper (although I have been working on KULT-Film Noir crossovers for a few years)and it is a way I could contribute.
I would also be willing to pay for a percentage of the site mantiance fees.
Where does it matter where it is hosted? I have seen many lovely sites of KULT themes. The Abyss should never become a site of someone's personal KULT ideas, but a clearing house of many ideas from many people. My big fear is that the Abyss would be taken by somone and it would become a front for a single writer.
It would lose the spirt of the site.
The Abyss is a great site,with kudos to Matt Boronson,Jason, Peter and all the others who created it and made it a reality. I also realize that it is our fault, as the KULT community, that there are no updates and the Abyss is statring to fade. Updating its mission may be the way to keep it vital.
I want to clarify somthing-
When I said I would contribute to the web site fiscally, it is with the intention of keeping the people who are running it now in charge. I lack the creative spark as well as the time to run it as an active administrator. I just want to contribute in some way, and sincince I cannot give time, I offered to give money.
We are currently in the process of updating our website and are writing about Wraiths Shadowlands in Kult. We are writing about the Maelstrom storms as a sign of the Demiurge's return (or is it?)
When we have finished, this will go together to produce a scourcebook about the end times.
Sorry about reposting the story, I should have realised that it was already old news here on the board.
I'm new to the board, and hadn't noticed that the newer messages were down the bottom of the page rather than the top. If I'd taken the time to look closely I'd have realised.
Well, I asked because it's rare to find a girl that is a RPG player, more rare GM... but a girl Gming Kult is a very very rare thing!!!
I add that every time I GMered or Played under a girl GM, the scenarios were very accurate and deep. And this is linked with my post about Gore or Mystery stuff.
My nicks are also Moloch and Pilate... I'm 26 from Pesaro, middleway in Italy near Rimini.
Feel free to email me when you want to exchange some ideas about Kult or other!
A girl Gming is not so usual in France, but I know some..I gm four players..and my favourite Game is Kult..
Is Kult very popular in Italy ??..are there a lot of RPG players ? are there some good italian games ?? or only translations ?
Hi Amber,
here in Italy RPG are quite diffused: the AD&D stuff, White Wolf, Call of Chtuhlu or Games Workshop stuff with miniatures are the most played indeed, and you can find material of this kind almost in every medium-sized city.
Kult, instead is very rare to find... I believe that I have bought the last copy of the 1st edition Main Rulebook in Italy, after months of researches (I sold it some years ago, me idiot, then I rebought it this year). No sourcebooks are available! Damn!
I still miss Judas Grail, Player's Companion, GM screen, Purgatory, Fallen Angels... I'm trying to find the latter, but it's hard to.
But even if it's impossible to find, Kult has a sinister fame here in Italy! Some years ago has been published the translation of the second edition, without being censored...
Some RPG have been published, like Dylan Dog, a horror RPG based on a comic very popular here, or Ammo... a manga-SCI-FI style RPG, or Hokuto-no-Ken RPG... but they had a short life!
Well, do u think Kult will be welcomed back in Italy ? Are there otther people looking for it ?..I wonder if it's a forgotten game or not..Kult is still played in France, but its' very hard to find some original books..I had to buy a second-hand fallen Angels...
Bye..and Merry Christmas !
By me Kult will be wellcome in the whole world... don't you think that a reprinting of all material, with some graphic or structural adjustment (i.e. joining the two Conjurer's guides) will smash the RPG market?
Think about a mediocre game like Unknown Armies: a great advertising has made its fortune... a RPG like Kult, with great playability, astounding setting,etc... could become the leader in horror RPG.
I can't believe that some Companies publish and spend a lot of money in ridicolous products and Kult is starving in some warehouse!
Well, Amber you're the brightest voice of the Forum, with your posts full of smiles... so I wish you a Merry Christmas (remember that Santa Clause is a lictor) and if we don't hear before... a happy new millennium!
Yeah, Santa Claus is a lictor, so I put a wolf trap in my hearth...:)
I wish u a merry Christmas and I think ur wishes about Kult will be soon heard, and we'll see it again in all the shops...
See ya, friend..:)
AMBER
One of the most inspirational cities for imagining Kult senarios that I know. This place has got it all going on. I find that actually setting my campaigns here means that I can pile on the detail to really bring the settings to life. It also adds that extra twist of familiarity, which tends to make things even more creepy when events take a turn towards the dark side.
...and from Wisconsin no less! Home of Ed Gein and Jeffery Dahmer. As a friend from California used to tell me- "We may have more serial killers but you got all the cool ones."
I am not one to speak for the current "owner" however Peter has not been seen for quite some time (If you read this E-mail me man)
Soon the domain registration fee will be due and I doubt anyone has or will pay it...
which means it may soon be cancelled...
However I have set up a new domain dedicated to Games like Kult and SLA Industries it can be found at www.bitterreign.com
At the current moment I suggest you use IE to view it as Netscape doesn't support the Style sheets I use.. though I am fixing this very soon
Jason Just and I have discussed this at length and have come to an agreement
bitterreign.com will be hosting the contents of the abyss until such a time the abyss is renewed or such a time that we are certain of it's future.
I invite all of you to come by and take a look and see what you think... I have also included a new (And better IMO forum setup if you wish to use it)
Plans for the site are many, but it will be mostly dedicated to the darker side of gaming, no punches will be pulled here.
Jason and I have a nice set up going we think, while you are there, stop by and take a look at his site as well if you haven't seen it yet
In the VERY near future I plan on massive amounts of work for Both Kult and SLA
And Since we haven't seen an update to the Abyss in 6+ months I would be more than happy to host any fan related works which you feel you'd like to submit. Full credit will be given for your works. I would also like to start a semi regular newsletter for these games, if I can get enough submissions to keep it alive.
I can add graphic design to your works and work in PDF format as well.
any submissions should be sent to submissions@bitterreign.com
As an aside AMBER, please contact me about Seventh Circle and the Future of Kult, I have sent a mail to Mr. Berk but have yet to see a response.
Thank you all for your patience with The Abyss... hopefully we can spring some new life into our favorite game!
Ok...if i got this right then AMBER has some position involved with the new release/revival of Kult...here is one of MY best sugestions in eons...
SHOW THEM THE ABYSS!!!!
There are, for one thing, the sourcebooks that can be used as influences or they can simply hire the writers as freelancers as METRODOX sugested...
If AMBER don't have nuthin to do with the actual release/revival but just the translation...well....maybe you can give someone a hint anyway..or maybe someone else on this messageboard can do this..
Show "them " ?? who is "Them" ???..If u're talking about John Berk and me,The Seventh Circle Publishing Company, well, we know this site ...:)
I have all the sourcebooks on my hard drive..:)..I'm first of all a RPG Game master..And Kult is my favourite game..
I answered Matias (just read my post above) about our projects..right now we're waiting for the files to be able to work on them correctly..
see ya..
Hmmm I just wanted to wait a bit more before announcing it..:)
by AMBER
I hope it's a nice New year present for all the Kult lovers here..:).I'm responsible for the french translation and publication.. and surely the european ones..We just signed and u will see all the news on our website still under construction..we'll announce very soon the good news there in english and french..right now the site is only in french ..
Feel free to send us messages there on the mail address 7emecercle@wanadoo.fr...
See ya soon..:)
In fact , we signed for the world translation rights..sooo first we'll publish english and french versions...We would like to publish the rulesbook with surely some changes + an absolutely new sourcebook or campaign (even in english)....We're waiting for the files to know exactly what we're going to choose...Then we'll see..I don't know exactly when we'll be able to release it..but the sooner the better, hmmm?? Anyway, u will know soon..
Paradox keeps th erights for video games..please ask them directly, on their website
Thanks and see ya
hmmmmmm u did'nt read my post .... I was talking about the Seventh Circle... please read my post.. u have to search for 7emecercle.com...because it's an american and french company dedicated to translations of american games into french. We are about to release WitchCraft (Eden Studios) in French, then Obsidian (Apophis consortium), but Kult was our dream and we're gonna release it both in USA an in Europe..as I told u , pleaase feel free to mail us : to Neko (me) 7emecercle@wanadoo.fr
It's certainly really great to hear that Kult is to be revived! Especially for those of us who have already lost hope...
Could you give us some more detailed information? Timelines...? How, when, where...? Do you stay in touch with G.Jonsson and M.Petersen, Kult original authors? Are they to be involved at all? Which books do you plan to reprint? Any new ones?
Maybe it's too early to ask such questions, but you know - the news is really exciting...
I sent an e-mail to the address listed on AMBER's site asking if Seventh Circle would take Freelance submissions. I think it would be great if fans could support the game by writing what might become 'official' material. I hope that we can but we'll just have to wait and see.
Wow, that's fantastic news! I'm really eager to see what they do with the license. Though I haven't run a Kult campaign for a bit, it's always the game that huddles in the back of my thoughts, threatening. I can't wait to see what happens next.
updates, submissions, feedback and you......thanks
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The site has been online for a week now. It is getting updated soon with a Victorian London setting and a new lore, called the lore of art
What do you think about the site?. We hope you like it.
Also If you have any work you would like put on the site please mail us from the above address or the address on the site. All copyright and credit for the work will remain with you, the author.
I've been into Kult since its UK release, but until recently have merely been lurking in the shadows. Can anyone fill me in on 'Human Ashes' and what the CD-ROM project concerns?
I'm an Analyst/Programmer, and if anyone's interested could write small apps that may be of use to other players/GMs.
Human Ashes was the monthly newsletter I sent out with the monthly updates to The Abyss. It was a preview of sorts and general info letter that was for Kultists to try to inform and show there was activity.
When the newsletter was running (not since June last year) I brought up the concept of a CD-Rom project that was suggested by one of the first Kultists to set up web for Kult online, Ben Chalmers. We sent out a survey through Human Ashes and what people might like on it & with The Abyss. The response was minimal.
The CD-Rom project was to include, pre-gen characters, scenarios for new players, suitable music & art, and much much more with our intention of using it to promote Kult at conventions and provide material for new players at that time, since Kult needed new blood to try to rouse any interest from Target (at that time to slip into Paradox). It never happened and the idea was dropped. Whether Peter has decided to awaken this concept, I'm unsure.
What happened about the newsletter ? I'm a bit new in this forum.. but it seems there were no more updates here..is there something wrong ?
Oh, I do love your artwork on symbolique.net..:)
See ya
AMBER
As there have been no updates to The Abyss since I left there has been no newsletter. Peter, when he took over the reins, I believe said he would continue it (the newsletter) when the new updates are implemented.
If you scroll back through this forum you will find most information documented. It is my understanding that Peter and various helpers are working toward an update, however, you'd do better contacting them personally for specific information.
Hope that fills your question & thanks for your comments about symbolique.
I am just wondering who is currently the running the Abyss as we need to get in contact with him. I would greatly appreciate any assistance. Thank you.
our new site is now up and running. We are going to be taking submissions on the site. So if you have any work you would like to be put up please E-Mail us and we will be glad to help.
The site is at the moment mainly about Las vegus but we are going to be putting up a vast array of different works. Submissions can be anything about Kult, Stories, Games, PC's and N.P.C's etc etc
The officially published KULT scenarios here in Germany had a kind of dial rating showing the splatter to mystery ratio. Invariably they were closer to splatter than mystery, and if you hear descriptions of self-written or -played scenarios they seem to tend heavily towards the splatter side of things. Even the short scenes describing for instance the various parts of Metropolis in the sourcebook of the same name don't sound as if the group of PCs in question were going to last any longer...
Am I alone in thinking that KULT has a great potential for mystery games? My games contain no wanton violence (in regard to the PCs that is - NPCs may die in all kinds of ways) and I will never throw in random encounters with Nepharites or such critters just for the sake of it. The whole mystical shebang about the Demiurge etc. opens up so many more possibilities.
Splatter in my opinion is ok for one-shots, but it doesn't work well for longer campaigns.
Kult is a game that involves a great deal of care and attention. As I think I mentioned in a previous posting, in order to create genuinely impressive role-playing experience you need to be subtle and plan things properly. Splatter is fine for those with a limited imagination, but the real capacity to shock lies in knowing how to get under a players skin and which buttons to press. Yet this does not mean you need to press them all at once.
The ability to generate genuine tension and suspense is not an easy one to master. Things are all the more frightening when you don't know what is out there, or what it can really do to you. You should be able to feed the terror to a player piece by piece rather than try and choke them to death on the whole lump. It is also far more rewarding for a player when they finally manage to work through a problem and discover something significant, rather than just blowing away a few bad guys just to have a bucket of gore poured over them in the end.
The slow realisation that something is about to occur can be far more terrifying than the shock value of a sudden surprise. Having the characters facing something like a Nepharite is fine, as long as it is handled correctly. Just dumping one in the middle of the party and making up some lame excuse about warping time and space doesn't really cut it for me. These powers are there as dramatic tools, not weapons.
I have managed to create a more effective atmosphere with mundane events than I have with supernatural. It is very difficult for someone to really identify with a supernatural event. But mundane ones are much more accessible and therefore far more effective.
I could go on for pages about this, But I won't......
I ran a one shot scenario a few years back called On Wings and Dark Lullabies. The players were all recently graduated high school students in a small town in Nebraska. I did several things in this adventure to heighten tension but keep the supernatural toned down. The back ground was that the PC's were all hosts to Gaian Cicadas that were implanted 17 years ago at their birth. The majority of the townsfolk were host to predatory Beetles living within the townspeoples bodies. The time had come to feed on the PC's internal insects and events began unfolding that disintegrated everything they had known. I started with a party after graduation and let the players roleplay out various common encounters. Then one of their friends runs screaming out of the party and takes off in her car. She gets hit by a train and the PC's find the car covered in Cicadas but they didn't know why. From then on events started getting more bizarre-roads swallowed up by tall fields of grass, neighbors watching them hungrily, young siblings playing with bugs, a PC took a drink of water and discovered insect parts floating in the water, ect., ect. I used the natural repulsion of insects and small occurrences in everyday life to alienate the PC's before I let their own bodies be the final horror. They all laid sick in a medical clinic, separated by gauzy screens, listening to their friends whimper as the Cicadas come out and seeing the twitching shiny carapaces in the smiles of their loved ones.
There was almost no violence during the entire adventure and one of my players refused to eat afterwards. A full three nights of Kult and not a drop of blood spilled...
Hell, I wish I'd practiced english better... I feel incapacitated to express my thoughts fully... sorry.
I add that as in horror novels and movies, in horror RPG gore over gore soon finish to bore the player. You can think every decsription you want, but soon the words "blood", "entrails", "corpse" will seem meaningless. It's much better to set the players in weird or slightly uncommon situations that make them feel uncomfortable. They must realize that their world, that may seem as much real as possible IMHO, is changing in worse.
In the main rulebook there's a perfect example, that you've surely read: the guy that during the night hears a grasp-like sound over his house door... he goes to check it and there's nothing out in the street. The following morning he goes checking again and he discovers that the signs of the grasping are INSIDE the door. Creepy.
Atmosfere is all. In one scenario I ran, I described the descent in a dilapidated basement... I said that there was an old bicicle (vecchia bicicletta) but for a misunderstanding the players understood that there was a old woman in bicicle (vecchia IN bicicletta). They were frightened by the absurd situation!
But consider that violence, even insensate violence, is a fundamental part of the Kult mood: from time to time you must gave it to players.
Regarding sourcebook, I possess the english versions because here in Italy only the Rulebook was translated. Metropolis is in effect a little deadly, but its very difficult to render a such place. But don't play it in a D&Desque way...
My players are not impressed by splatter..that makes us laugh instead of being frightened..hey, we're not kids anymore..But, not knowing what's happening is far more horrible..:)
It might be just me but dont you think that a lot of the creatures in kult are far to brutal to be used in anything except fairly tightly controlled fight scenes surely just dropping a nepharaite on your party is going to result in a death or two anyway , not an ideal result.
anyways just my thoughts.
Leo!
The situation is much like in Call of Cthulhu - Nepharites etc. simply are not for battle. They can drag you into Hell, why should they bother fighting you?
I don't think Nepharites, Razides, Death Angels, Lictors etc. are there for killing people; after all, all of them are part of the security measures that enforce the Illusion. Being killed in nasty ways is not exactly something that enforces the Illusion. In my games these factions work a lot more subtly. That doesn't mean that a person in danger of piercing the veil is not disposed of; but they do it in the least offensive way possible, so that it doesn't call any attention to the event.
The Nepharites et al are there to scare. You can have them mutliate an NPC for dramatic effect, just to show what could happen to the PC's if they really want to go play hack and slash with the critters, but that's not really what they're there for. Having a player being pursued by a Nepharite or Razide should be terrifying. Actually having it attack is pretty pointless. The atmosphere is in the tension created, where the player is thinking, "Shit, where is it? When is it gonna come and get me? How can I avoid this? What the fuck am I going to do?" It takes a lot of skill and careful thought to find ways for the player to escape what appears to be an inevitable outcome, and to do it without the player starting to think that they will always get away with it.
This is why having a 'random encounter' with with these kinds of creature, or IMHO any kind of creature, is absolutely out of the question. There's no build up of tension when you say, "You move through the scaffolding of the old church, and suddenly (rolls 1d4) 2 Nepharites attack you. Roll your initiative, whoops you lose."
You get my point?
In Kult, the darkness inside the PC's is far worse than anything they could face outside. This is the material you have to play with, and very rich it is too.
You are right. Nepharites and such creatures are too much for a character. But, in the Adventure in Fallen Angel, it gives a good example in how a true battle with such creatures could take place besides just a hack and slash set up. In the adventure, you take on the characterists of such a creature to battle it. But it comes at a cost and shows frightening glimpse of what the characters can become if they loose control of themselves. Just an observation.
Great site... Nice concept. To bring light is to cast a shadow. Las Vegas has plenty of Neon lights to offer. You guys show the (potential) shadows. Top notch.
Erm...one glitch, however. I tried to write this in your guest book but I can't write my name and e-mail address in the boxes. The boxes are large enough but you can only write several characters...
Hello, and thank you very much for your show of appreciation for the site. We are experiencing a few problems with the g'bk at the moment, but hopefully that should be fixed within the next week. We hope you will find the time to sign it then.
Yesterday I was wandering in a RPG store in a big city near mine, and I came across a sourcebook for White Wolf's Wraith... its title is "Charnel Houses of Europe: shoah". It's about jews extermination in nazi's lagers during the World War II... the souls of the victims use their after-lives to let that abominion never happen again. I was petrified... the sourcebook is very scary because it has happened! Six millions of innocent people died in that way... I couldn't buy it.
Now I ask, is it right, in your opinion, to use this kind of facts to make a RPG sourcebook? Is it right to play in such a terrible setting?
White Wolf says it is to keep the memory of this fact alive, to let it never happen again.
My opinion? If it's played in the right conditions, with the right people, it can be useful to remember and honor the souls of the killed...
... and by you?
Well, of course..this is horrible and playing a contemporary game...we can't forget and pretend it never happened...I don't think White Wols had a good idea editing this book....very easy to make money on such an horrible event...this sourcebook was not very popular in France...
But why don't we remember so acutely the slaughter of native american ? The russian one (20 millions of people butchered by Staline), and the tibetan tragedy...all those non-violent people slaughtered with Flame throwers when they had no weapons...And what's happening right now in China ? Babies murdered because they don't have the right to be born...Well, what we did to Jewish people is horrible but any slaughter is horrible..and what about the Inquisition who burnt a lot of them...Is slaughter a human custom ?
Only stupid people can forget human being is the only one slaughtering his own kind
Not forgetting what happened in Auschwitz is not enough !! This sourcebook is sick. It feeds our taste for horror..for watching horror, making all this regular horror...and all this was real..never allow this to happen again..
I just hope the new millenium will be different..but well...
In my opinion this a pioneer sourcebook in the RPG business. You're right in saying that it's hard to stomach; but I think WW did a good thing in publishing this.
They did not fall for making a cheesy supplement about WW2, blaming it on the vampires for instance, but leave the horror where it belongs: with the real world humans who did those things.
Yes, the events portrayed sicken me (as did the Khatyn Mir chapter in the Wraith sourcebook Haunts, which can be seen as a forerunner to CHOE). But even here in Germany, where you are practically blasted with facts about WW2 atrocities (and rightly so) in school and later, this book could still give me new insights into what had actually happened, and most importantly, about how the victims must have felt.
This book goes a new way in RPGs, showing that they can teach us something, that they are growing up to be more than just a new escapist form of literature: they can give you the same kind (or better even, a different kind) of insight that quality literature can give you.
If you read the preface to CHOE you will find that author Janet Berliner who is a descendant of Jews who lived through or didn't live through the Holocaust, and who writes novels about this topic, agrees this book is a new way to get the message through to the young generation (who often can't be arsed to watch documentaries or listen to their history teachers) what happened and that such things should never happen again.
This is not horror to be enjoyed; this is the kind of horror that should open your eyes.
I think CHOE is a fairly good supplement
and its somewhat unfair to suggest that WW had it printed merely as a money making exercise, in fact as i remember all the profits from it were donated to a relevant charity...in much the same way that some of the profits from werewolf products are donated to environmental charities...
also do people really think that such an important event in the real world should have been ignored in the game, or merely glossed over?
and as for the discussion of slaughters nothing in history compares with the slave trade , in terms of how people were treated , the length of time it persisted and the number of people murdered.
Love
xLeox
The latter post demonstrates that the ipothesis made by Amber is right: perhaps slaughter of other people doesn't depends from political sides or individual madness... if you look back in the past you will find that massacres of millions of people is recurrent in the nature of man:
inquisition
slavery
nazi
gulags in siberia
serbian lagers in the Balcan war...
the only hope is that there will be no more of these, that we will learn the lesson.
About Charnel Houses...; Shoah, I flipped through it and it gave me an impression of respect towards the victims. I must agree with you when you say that it could be a way to instill the semen of memory in younger people. Perhaps playing (not in the sense of game but meaning a theatral 'interpretation of a role') in that setting can make someone reflecting.
Obviously there will be always players who want to play the role of a cruel SS officer... and it's sad. But even in other games (Kult, too or even Dungeons and Dragons) there are opportunities to show his own stupidity. It's the same old story of the knife: you can use it to peel an apple to give it to a starving man, or you can use it to kill him... depends on you.
Did anyone see Roberto Benigni's movie "La vita è bella"? In my opinion is a wonderful movie about shoah, if you can you should see it.
We have posted to this forum over the last two weeks with notices about the progression of a new Kult Site, called "Tales From The Neon City & Other Stories" - the site is now on the net, so please come and see it! We hope that you will like it. To visit, please go to the below address
Just go to the links page on this website...Go on Richard Broekman's Kult page..At the end of the page, u will find some stuff including character sheets..
Happy new year !!
We have posted this forum before, giving information about a new kult site called "Tales From The Neon City & Other Stories" The site is nearing completion, and should be up and running within the next 2-3 weeks. Because of interest shown, we are now willing to take submissions on the site. At the moment, we are very busy with the editing process and sorting out the final details etc but, once the site is up and running, as well as putting our own information up, we are very happy to take other authors work. Of course, the copyright will remain with the author. Artwork is acceptable also. We will take no credit for work posted, as we would be very upset if someone took credit for our work. So, if you do have anything, ot are thinking about anything (to do with kult, of course) please feel free to mail us at the address stated. Take care, and have a happy new year.
Since Christmas was yesterday I use the spell "wish an happy new year" of the Lore of Time and Space to wish you another happy year in the Illusion! Welcome to the new millennium, friends...
New website - "Tales From The Neon City & Other Stories"
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We are in the latter stages of completing a massive new kult website which we hope will be a good gaming rescource for both players and GM's alike. It includes new scenarios, new characters/NPC's, new creatures, new settings etc.
Could you please give us the addresses of any good internet webspace providers? We want to get this site going within the next 3 weeks. We are hoping that editing will be finished in the next week, so that we can realistically achieve putting it on for early - mid Jan 2001.
Please feel free to mail us if you have any questions about the site.
Well I'm happy to hear that new people are interested in creating Kult spaces outside this great Forum...
Sadly I don't know good providers outside Italy...
But please keep us informed of site publishing and updating!
- 9 years playing
- 8 years running (averaging one game a week)
- 5 years designing homebrews or messing with other folks systems
- 1 year playtesting officially (Eden Studios)
- 1 year demo-ing (Eden Studios and Kenzer and Co.)
Hell, you guys seem to have careers into this ......
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that must be damn fun.
I myself plan to take graphic design and art school.
Want to make film design and hopefully rpg design.
Also have a dream about a cartoon based on either Kult or In Nomine wich is both great games.
I worshipp fantasy and creativity and will forever do.
yeahh it's kindda calling, I think..first time someone told me about RPG, I thought.."hey, it's exactly what I was searching for..it's just me.."*LOL*..and yeah, I worked a bit in RPG and I have plans to go on working on this passion..I will tell u more about it, here...later..:)
I'm not sooo creative but I love Kult..do u know In Nomine was a french game first and far funnier than the english version..:)
Follow ur dreams..
Well I started with the boxed sets (red, blue, green, etc)of Dungeons & Dragons a school friend gave me. It was very appalling: creating a world of my own...
I tried a lot of RPG, and now I play the most free of the RPG: I write SF/Horror novels. Is there a better way to canalize my creativity?
I like Computer Graphic, too... the strange exoterical tinghs like the Conjurer's Guide stuff.
The conjurer's guide is beautiful but very hard to read..because of the colours..don't u like Judas' grail ?..creating for me is more in playing, or Storytelling, so playing the NPC's..I love that, and my players appreciate them a lot..they befriended some of my NPCs..and they told me they missed them when we stopped the campaign..just like a friend living away..funny, hmmmm?? They even can recognize their different voices..and tones..a bit shizo??:)
I don't have Judas Grail, sadly.
But I saw it some time ago (and I didn't bought it, as Purgatory and Player's Companion... aaaarrrrrgh, what an asshole I have been) and the artwork was good.
...I prefer to use Samael's Sing-Along-A-Psycho Express Delivery Service. Then the entire family gets the message before noon the next day. Guaranteed or your beating back!!!
Seasonal Salutations to you all.
And listen out for that Psycho!
I sent a mail to paradox earlier today asking if they
would publish a new edition of kult or if they would
licensce it to anyone else. here is their reply
(translated from swedish):
--
we have no plans to pick up the kult game and publish
it again, since paradox focuses on developing computer
games. however we are negotiating with other companies
about licenscing the rights to kult.
--
If you have in mind to set a campaign in a Criminal Asylum, I suggest the vision of the documentary "Titicut Folies" by Wiseman (1967). I've seen it this morning and I must say that's very disturbing and sick. It's a real footage taken in the Bridgewater Asylum (Massachussets) and it describes the brutality of the guards, vasectomy, Gestapo-like interrogatory, etc.
Now I understand why Criminal Asylums are intended as passages towards Inferno!
It would be hell of a lot of fun to play there but .....
by
the other players are a bit sceptical.
Whow that atmosphere.
And regarding the risks, i dont think anyone will take it that serious if we played there , probably they would only consider taking us to the opertational part of the facility. There is a guard house, but i dont think it would be any problem, jump over the fence a few meters ahead.
THe thing about mental hospitals are gates to inferno etc . take a look at some of the departments for children in the Ukraine mental hospitals. GRousome treatment of those children , they lock them in gages that are placed on top of each other. Read an article about it some years ago. Been in my mind ever since.
A few years ago I saw a documentary about Orphanages in Romania, when it was under USSR influence...
They're very terrible places... the umages of those poor kids are still in my mind.
.......since in the US u can be locked up even though you aint insane......im of course now only talking about the REGULAR asylums....not the criminal asylums.......
The thought of being stuck in a mental institution (we here in the Colonies no longer call them Insane Asylums), is a horrible one.
The thought of being in one outside of the USA or Canada is even more frightening.
The living conditions in the USA institutions are much better than outside of the USA. I'm not saying that they are perfect or good. They are, however, not nearly as dirty, corrupt, evil, vile, nasty, torturous places as those of you have in your countries.
Most patients (not "psychos") are fed on a regular basis. If they are a danger to themselves or the staff of the hospital they are sedated and/or strapped down.
Yes, there are exceptions to the above, but by and large, most mental institutions are not as bad as those in Eastern Europe, former Russian states, or parts of Europe.
I actually know very little about the Central and South American Pyschological World. Would anyone from that area of the world care to comment? (If they are not busy dodging magma and lava in Mexico!)
Here in Italy the thing is very strange (typical of italians!!!). Some years ago we gained the respect of the entire Europe with a law about Asylums, named "law 180" that closed Asylums: the insanes would be cured in day-hospital treatments, living with their relatives, or in more human structures.
The result? We have now mad and insane people who wander by the streets, not knowing where to go, waiting for the night to re-enter the hospitals or the communities that give them a place to sleep.
Mental treatments are made in the normal neurological ward of the Hospitals.
But the problem is that ALL italians are a little insane!!!
Here in the UK there has been a general move over the last decade towards de-institutionalisation. What this means is that many of the specialised psyche units have either closed down, or now concentrate upon the most seriously disturbed. To replace incarceration we now have a system called Care in the Community. This generally entails a patient being relocated amongst the populace and being assigned a social worker or care worker whose job is to make sure that they are ok. They are also supplied with regular medication. This has not been entirely successful. Leaving a patient with the option of taking their medication or not can be problematic. Furthermore, several care workers have been murdered by their patients over the last few years. Aside from this a number of people have also been subjected to assaults by mentally disturbed individuals who are part of this scheme. However, lets put this in perspective. The number of women murdered by their (sane) partners is far higher than those killed by lunatics, as is the number of young men who are attacked and assaulted on the streets by people who are not considered to be mentally ill. Basically we fear madness, we think of it as somehow infectious and corrupting. This is why the US spend so much time and money on incarceration. It matters not how nice the facilities are, it is still a prison. In the UK this fear leads the press into stirring up moral panics about the psycho's and potential killers in our communities, so the genuinely harmless are hounded and persecuted by their neighbours. And finally it is this fear that keeps pharmeceutical giants pumping out millions of dollars worth of SSRI's like Prozac and major tranquilizers like Lithium in order to suppress madness rather than really trying to understand it. So rather than being physically incarcerated, patients end up chemically incarcerated instead. Which would you prefer?
I realise that there is a fine line sometimes between fantasy and reality. Most of us however know which side we're on at any given moment. Those of us that don't are the people being discussed in this thread.
They don't find it very funny!
Remember that this is a forum for INTELLIGENT discussion. Your co-operation would be appreciated. Now I shall say no more on the matter.
"MK Ultra", saw a thing on the Discovery channel about the CIA MK Ultra project, could be used efficiently in a setting that takes place in an insane asylum...
I have made character sheets for the first and the second edition (in both Swedish and English). They are slightly modified variants of the US second edition sheets (without the image and moved around stuff a little). I could mail them to you want me to, or we could put them at the Abyss if someone else wants to have them.
It is quite dull but I could see if I can find an image to put in the background or as a frame
"Don't Chit chat in a road crossing, you might get killed..."
there are five players
Phsycologist
private eye
shopkeeper with medic backround from ussr
retired cop
this street gang member at public therapy
any ideas how i could link all these togheter in one story , have some figured out. ITs taking place in berlin and is going to contain stuff from abortion clinics and some sick stuff. just need a good starting point and im on my way.
Well... the story take place in Berlin, you have a shopkeeper with a soviet background...
You can ipotize that the shopkeeper was, twenty years ago, a medic working for the STASI (the secret police of the East Germany when the Berlin wall was still up) that made some sick experiment on foetus when under the USSR influence. Now that the communism is dead he removed his past (or tries to remove it)... during the scenario he could recollect some memories here and there.
Hope it helps, for the other players I let the guys of the forum speak!
The other characters could all be members of the same group therapy session run by the Psychologist. Another NPC member of the session could provide a plot hook, either by disappearing under weird circumstances or perhaps by revealing some sensitive information during a session. Maybe he's a member of some sinister organisation and needs therapy to cope (bad guys have feelings too). Obviously he must keep this a secret from whoever (or whatever) he works for. Maybe he begins then to identify with the Psychologist, or another member of the group, as the father figure he never truly had. Maybe he's at the end of his tether and needs to confess his sins to find redemption. Maybe he doesn't reveal anything, but the people he works for find out about the sessions and decide to kill everyone else involved just in case. Starting with him of course. If you prefer this last idea it could be worth while having a couple of extra NPC's in the group, who you can bump off in various ways, therefore giving the players time to realise that something is working its way through the group and is now coming for them!
Well we have this great option. If we WANT TO we can play in a abandoned asylum building with all the stasj around and a locked lobotomy cellar (maybe). There is a open window wich we can crawl through. The problem is that my group are very little willing to go there and play. ONly one or two of them want to follow. Its a great opertunity, but they wont grab it! Do anyone of yuo experience souch situations?
Well I think that in this case there's a little exageration...
You can't force PC to follow you in a place that is probably not legally accessable by unauthorized people. Do you really need that surround? Or else it's better to concentrate on the scenario, on the mood you can create in your cellar or basement?
I think, RPG is imagination first..if u imagine u are there, and if u believe in it very hard, well, u don't need to go physically there..That's the wonder of RPG ..
Don't u think so ?we can pretend we are someone else..we can pretend we are anywhere else..and that work as well..:)
Well , i dinn`t plan to start a world war , but the book hints at it. One of my players ( a new one) liked the weapon list and he has plans on running this macho retired alcholic police officer stupid rambo thing, but me and all the others in the group are really tired of all the Mutant chronicles blood baths. Since he is a rather unexperienced player i dont expect him to play very good. This can result in a problem since we plan a campaign with not to much violence (and if it occurs I will make shure they have little ammo, will result in a panic situation). how can i feed it into his head that we have not plans on running a blood campaign. Actually I was quite suprised by the amount of weapons avaliable.
The characters are :
Private eye : Noir fellow
Phsycologist
Historican
Old doctor from the ussr regime ,now a shop ceeper
Retired police officer alcoholic ( got fired)
unknown ( have not decided yet)
IMHO you should link the background of the retired police officer and the psychologist's one. Maybe the policeman is in analysis... you can take the player that has the Psychologist PC and let him take care of the policeman.
Although Lucifuge's idea is a good one, it may be a little unfair placing that kind of responsibility onto a player.
Have you not considered sitting down with him and explaining that a gung-ho, rambo-esque attitude would not be appropriate? It's amazing what a few well placed words can achieve.
Okay guys I just recently picked up most of the books,. and I have some minor (and not so minor) questions. I would appreciate anyones assistance with figuring these things out.
First though I ask that you be very clear where you are getting your information from. I need to keep track of where this information is coming from so I can remember where to look it up myself. Quoting info from fan based sourcebooks is also fine, but please let me know where I can pick up a copy for myself!! I dont want to get left out!! I dont mind if people give me their purely creative opinions- anything helps, just be sure to tell me that, okay!
1) What is the color of the sky of metropolis? What illuminates it? stars, a sun?
2) What the heck is limbo? what is in it? Is it the Dreamworld? Or is it where the positive balanced souls go? If so doesnt that contradict the memory banks?
3) What are the major planes of existence? How do they relate to each other?
metropolis and Inferno and Elysium are connected by the labyrinth. (thats 4) Then theres the underground. and the Dreamworlds and Gaia, and Limbo.
Where do they fit in?
4) The underground duplicates the Labryrinths purpose, even though they said that the labyrinth is the only way to get to metropolis originally. Doesnt this make the labyrinth redundant and uneccessary?
5)does getting your dreamself killed injure the character in anyway? Where the heck are the rules about dreamselves?
The best thing in Kult is that you can do what you want, without having to follow the rules. If you don't find an answer you can find out your own response.
1) About Metropolis, there are no rules, because it changes all the time. The sun can be very bright, but, most often, clouds encumber the sky. It comes from the steam of the underground.
2) One thing you must know, time and space can change, then it's not important to know where and when you can find Gaia...
You can go in Metropolis, or Hell, from Elysium or elsewhere.
I can't tell where you'll be able to find answer because I only have french's rules.
Sorry.
Well, I usually think that the sky of metropolis is black, or at least dark. It is partly covered with redish and yellowish clouds (a bit like a scenery with a sunset).
That's my image of it ever since I saw an episode of Twilight Zone where they ended up in a place that very well could be Metropolis
When dealing with the metaphysical structure of an alternate reality you can't expect things to just link nicely together. Forget logic, forget trying to make coherent sense out of any of it. Jusy go with what you feel is best. Metropolis' sky is what ever colour you want it to be. If you don't like the Labyrinth, then lose it. Limbo isn't anywhere, that is the point of Limbo. You can get anywhere from anywhere providing that you know how to do it, and where you are going. You won't find any maps of these places because you don't need them. Simply go with whatever you feel gives the best dramatic impact and atmosphere.
As for Dreaming. Well what do think should happen? Should they die? Or should they not? Usually you can't die in dreams, you generally wake up. But Kult isn't Kansas (so to speak) so literally anything can happen. If you're the GM then it's your call. Have fun and experiment. Let your imagination run wild. It's far more interesting than slavishly following a rulebook.
1) Whatever colour can set the right mood for the session.
2)Pass on this one. Think someone else gave a good answer.
3) Pass again. See above
4) I read through the part about the illusion breaking down in my rulebook. In the early parts of that chapter they deal with the underground and the labyrinth. It's a bit unclear (I think that's the idea) but it seems as the underground and the labyrinth are the same thing. Or maybe if your enter the underground you might reach the labyrinth, which is connected with the underground of Metropolis. If you go further down the labyrinth you will reach the city Ktor (or something) which lies at the center of the labyrinth. From there you can proceed to another labyrinth which leads to yet another city (name forgotten by me) where you can reach Chaos, and "she who waits in the dark" (not sure about that translation).
5). Not many rules on dreamselves really. I suppose it depends on how far into dreaming you've got.
The Labyrinth is the Archetype of all cities, including Metropolis. Similarly the Labyrinth is also used as an analogy for the human brain (play with your own connections there). Anyway, back to the point. All cities are connected to the Labyrinth, the older the city, the greater and more numerous the connections. Now these connections do not necessarily appear underground. In the oldest parts of many cities the illusions break down and one can simply walk down a side street or an alleyway into the Labyrinth. The Labyrinth however is underground, or at least most of it is. It may be that the portion of the labyrinth underneath Metropolis is called The Underground, or maybe it is the name given to the entire subterranean portion of the Labyrinth, I don't think it really makes much difference, there is no Archemedian topography to work with here. What does matter is that when you travel deep enough into the Labyrinth you reach Ktonor, The Black City. This city lies in perpetual darkness and is apparently constructed from iron. The beings that dwell in Ktonor are blind and seem to serve a being known as She Who Waits Below. This being dwells at a place (?) known as Achlys. Achlys lies somewhere below/beyond Ktonor (direction is immaterial here) at the centre of the Inner Labyrinth. Achlys is a strange place, it is the beginning and the end of everything. It is the place where humans who wish to be forever annihilated must go. It is also the only place from where a new soul can emerge. Even to approach Achlys is to risk dissolution. However, to reach Achlys, and She Who Waits Below, one must first pass her brother, the Blind Bull. He is charged with preventing any who wish annihilation from approaching Achlys. His duty is to kill them and thus return their soul to the cycle of rebirth, rather than allow it to be irrevocably destroyed.
These details are taken from the Taroticum adventure supplement, in which The Labyrinth, Ktonor, and Achlys play an important part. There are some details in the 1st ed. rulebook about Achlys, Ktonor, and The Labyrinth but the ones in Taroticum are more comprehensive. If this interests you then I'd definitely recommend getting hold of it if you can.
Well this is a RPG forum after all...
And you surely have played other RPG beside Kult...
So what is a really well done Fantasy/Medieval RPG? It will be good if it has a kultesque setting.
I've tried Stormbringer, Maelstrom storytelling but I don't like them.
What about AD&D 3rd edition + Ravenloft?
Have you any suggestions?
PS. I once thought about converting or playing Kult in the middleage, did anyone write a scenario like that?
PPS. Did anyone played Kult 2070, the "sourcebook" present in the Eric Growen's Kult Page (link of the Abyss)?
Shadow World by Terry Amthor, who co-wrote the Player's Handbook to Kult and helped with the american products of Kult's newer releases, is an old I.C.E. game that he now runs separate from the defunct company doing everything by his own hand. It is a game steeped in dark and high fantasy. I use it as a place to explore Kult themes with my Kultophobic players.
The game Gemini from A Swedish company Cell entertainment is a good bid if you want to put Kult in a medieval setting. The world is shrouded in an eclipse, Demons lurk beneath the skin of men, Dwarves are cursed and are into scarification, the combat system will kill you in a single blow, and Magic is for the stupid or really lucky. In fact if you look at the game closely it has a lot in common with the Kult rules-from a type of Mental balance track to the same type of damage system. Best of all the mythology of the Gemini twins just begs to be compared to the Demiurge/Astaroth connection-Dark twins indeed! Anyway being that it is a Swedish game I wouldn't be surprised if Kult was on the designers reading list. It has great artwork but the translation to English was a little rough. Other than that Gemini has my vote for best Kult/Fantasy RPG crossover.
