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good title.... hehehe... I get it :)

February 4 2005 at 5:51 PM

  (Login gollyjeepers)


Response to Never mind...no matter...

 



BW ******************
Since you ask, and I'm so friendly and cooperative, I will say a few words about what mind is. (PLEASE don't come back and say that such a thing needs a material substrate. I'll just deny it, and ask you to demonstrate it. You have access to only one mind, which seems to you to be embodied; but that's no assurance that all (or any) minds are embodied.)
BW ******************


The reasonable claim is that the ¹brain (or mind) is a computer with hardware and software that we don't understand yet. When we understand both, we'll build one just like it. This would be totally consistent with 10,000 years of technological advances, all of which are based on material things, and none of which are not. This is my position. It doesn't rely on "the immaterial", whatever that is.


Your claim requires that something exists that can't be proven (that the mind is an immaterial object). This is a ²religious claim. You either believe arguments for it, or you don't, no amount of words will prove your belief. You have made the outrageous claim, it is incumbent upon you to prove it. But you can't. We both have beliefs about the brain we can't prove, however your position is inconsistent with scientific history and has no analogous precedent (requiring the existence of something "immaterial"?).


I suspected that again we were going to reach a foundational impasse. I think that may be where we are now.




¹ "mind" is what we call what the "brain" does with its hardware and software

² by pointing this out, I am not intending to be insulting as it was perceived last time








---Al


    
This message has been edited by gollyjeepers on Feb 4, 2005 5:52 PM


 
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Responses

  1. Stop the hand-waving and get serious - Bill on Feb 6, 11:57 AM
    1. Jawohl!, Herr Professor ..... - Al on Feb 6, 1:36 PM
      1. What is right-side-up? - Dragonfly on Feb 7, 4:29 AM
      2. On the nature of consciousness... - Greg on Feb 7, 3:25 PM
      3. Please read and address my arguments! - Bill on Feb 9, 11:50 AM
        1. Whoops! - Bill on Feb 9, 1:21 PM
        2. if you mean your web article, then not quite yet (or ever, maybe) - Al on Feb 9, 6:01 PM
          1. Re: if you mean your web article, then not quite yet (or ever, maybe) - Bill on Feb 10, 2:14 PM
            1. The problem of touting the mind/body duality is that... - Greg on Feb 10, 3:28 PM
              1. I must also interject with a different perspective,... - Dave, The Watcher on Feb 10, 5:58 PM
                1. Re: I must also interject with a different perspective,... - Greg on Feb 10, 8:16 PM
                  1. If you'll pardon a shameless play on words... - Dave, The Watcher on Feb 11, 3:22 PM
                    1. Re: If you'll pardon a shameless play on words... - Greg on Feb 11, 4:49 PM
                      1. I really wish... - Dave, The Watcher on Feb 11, 5:25 PM
                        1. I'll visit your frozen head and wave... - Greg on Feb 11, 6:37 PM
                          1. ... and maybe "accidentally" :) trip over the plug? - Al on Feb 11, 10:48 PM
                            1. Things to inform Dave's frozen head... - Greg on Feb 13, 8:31 PM
                              1. Just a reminder, lest ye forget: - Dave, The Watcher on Feb 14, 2:53 PM
                                1. There is no return - Brain on Feb 14, 3:49 PM
                                  1. Hello Brain! - Dave, The Watcher on Feb 16, 2:56 PM
                                2. Re: Just a reminder, lest ye forget: - Greg on Feb 14, 4:21 PM
                                  1. So then, you ARE a rigid, strident materialist like Al? - Dave, The Watcher on Feb 16, 3:13 PM
              2. For Greg (*et al.*) - Bill on Feb 10, 6:06 PM
                1. Agreeing and disagreeing - Greg on Feb 10, 8:02 PM
                  1. Fine! - Bill on Feb 10, 8:54 PM
                    1. the vorpal blade wanted to go "snicker-snack" - Al on Feb 10, 9:49 PM
                      1. Re: the vorpal blade wanted to go "snicker-snack" - Bill on Feb 11, 9:59 AM
                        1. Callooh, Callay! - Dragonfly on Feb 13, 9:17 AM
                      2. Snicker Snack - Dragonfly on Feb 13, 9:27 AM
            2. once upon a time in America - Al on Feb 10, 10:52 PM
              1. Re: once upon a time in America - Bill on Feb 11, 11:06 AM
                1. later - Al on Feb 12, 7:36 PM
                  1. O.K. - Bill on Feb 13, 8:55 AM
     
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