Judicial CaningJuly 4 2001 at 1:31 PM
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|Mary Morgan |
Most of the postings on this forum are about school canings - and very interesting they are too! But surely we should not forget about canings handed down by the courts, which were reasonably common in some countries until a few years back. Certainly South Africa in the apartheid days used to cane both men and women - I remember reading about it in the newspapers. If a white woman and a black or 'coloured' man were caught having an affair and taken to court under the Immorality Act then the court would often sentence them both to be caned on the bare buttocks. I think women were also caned for other offences - even traffic offences! There was also a case many years ago in Aden, back in the days when it was a British colony, when a British lady in her late twenties appeared in court there on some charge or other (theft, I think it was, on a ship she was emigrating to Australia on). They couldn't really send her to jail as she wasn't local and she had no money to pay a fine, so the court ordered her to receive 24 lashes of a rattan cane across her bare buttocks, something it was fully entitled to do as corporal punishment had not been abolished there. I believe this punishment was actually carried out.
I have a few questions for you:
Does anyone know of any other real-life cases like this where women have been sentenced to the cane by a court? No fantasies please, just real-life cases preferably backed up by newspaper cuttings, etc.
Don't you think that our courts should be able to order people to be caned instead of fining them or sending them to jail? Should women be caned as well? Bare or across clothes? In public? For what sort of offences? How many strokes? Just juveniles or any age? Or would the birch be better?
What about these British drugs smugglers in the Arab Emirates for example - you know, the girls who got life imprisonment? Surely a few lashes across the bum followed by deportation would be a better way of dealing with them?
Would be interested in hearing your views!
Several Documented CasesNo score for this post
|July 4 2001, 6:22 PM |
Mary, there are several documented (and verified) cases to be found on the internet. Try: http://www.corpun.com/aeju9510.htm
Yes, I believe that magistrates should be able to impose a sentence that includes caning the guilty party for minor offences. Often in such cases it is the humiliation that is the more effective part of the punishment than the actual pain - it certainly was at school.
Judicial cpNo score for this post
|July 4 2001, 6:59 PM |
At www.groups.yahoo.com there is a sometimes lively discussion on the subject. The group is called
More on female judicial c.p.Score 2.0 (1 person)
|July 5 2001, 7:19 AM |
Hi Mary, Just found this site today..just in time to see your post. Judicial c.p., both current and past, are a favorite topic of mine (especially where it involves females). I came across a series of articles (it wasn't corpun) but can't remember where or how I found it....I'm trying to think. Anyway, there were three instances I noticed. Two were in Saudi Arabia. One was a woman from Finland who received 20 lashes for an alcohol offense, the other was an 18 year old woman from New Jersey who received 75 lashes for shoplifting. Hers was public and she said her back, bottom and thighs were covered with welts (she doesn't say anything about bleeding). The third case was in Malaysia where two seventeen year old girls from Australia each received 8 lashes for marijuana. Apparently while adult females aren't caned there teenagers can be. Theirs were on their bare bottoms, bent over the back of a chair. Also, I remember on the same day Michael Fay got his caning in Singapore a woman from Texas (I think her name was Mary Jones) received 80 lashes in Iran for an alcohol offense. I'd like to hear more details on any or all of those. From what I've heard, the canes they use in the middle east are usually bamboo and about 140 cm long. If caning is used in a certain place I certainly think women should be treated equally. As to whether caning should be used in the west, maybe it would be a good idea in some cases. If it were used I think it should lack the brutality that exists in other places, but it should be made up for in humiliation. I think it should be on the bottom and backs of the thighs, it should be public and it should be bare. How about putting a platform on the landing at the top of the courthouse steps. Have it be three of four steps up onto the platform, have an adjustable padded bar for the person to bend over, cuff wrists together and ankles together, and attach the cuffs to either side of the platform, so the person's bare bottom is facing the street. I have a rattan cane that's 99 cm long and 11mm thick. It's a pretty formidable object, and while it hasn't been used yet it will be in about 3 weeks. It will be severe, but under control. If you put it in the hands of a cop, prison guard, bailiff or whatever the results could be scary. If it were put into practice I think it should be for minor offenses and/or things that are a menace to society, instead of jailtime or maybe with reduced jailtime. Drunk driving, child abuse, spousal abuse, minor drug offenses, shoplifting etc. I think juveniles could have a slightly smaller cane (I have another one that's 89cm x 10mm...still severe but not quite as bad) and 18 and over can have the larger one. I think 20 to 50 lashes depending on the situation should be sufficient to make a person really sorry for whatever he/she did. I think drug dealing/smuggling is a very serious crime, and certainly prison time is called for anywhere. I think if they had been given 5 years, 60 or 70 severe lashes before they enter prison and another 60 or 70 when they get out and then are deported, that would be fair. Obviously the first caning would be horrible, and then they'd have the second one to look forward to when they get out. Talk about mixed feelings...they'd be looking forward to the end of their sentences, but they'd have the second caning hanging over their heads, and they'd know how much it will hurt. Sorry to ramble on so long, but the subject fascinates me. How about you Mary, what do you think about details on the subject? Brian
Judicial CaningNo score for this post
|July 5 2001, 9:38 AM |
Thanks for the URLs Steve and Miles. Of course I knew about Colin's site but he seems biased towards accounts of male punishment for some reason. Thanks Brian for the post. I think the site you mean is:
This has some good accounts but there must be lots more out there, including some that never made the newspapers.
Personally I don't have any views on whether courts should be able to award such sentences. I'm not a law & order fanatic or even particularly conservative. I just find it an incredible turn-on! 'Schoolgirl' fantasies leave me cold. In fact fantasies and 'acting out' leave me cold. It's the real thing that gets me going, which is why I would like to see more about this subject on the web.
Regarding Malaya, you're right about the Australian girls - that report is on the site I mentioned above. It's also true that some individual states in Malaya that are very Muslim are thinking of introducing caning on the bare bottom for both men and women for 'moral' offences, but I do not know whether any sentences have been carried out.
I would be particularly interested in hearing from the other women on this forum on this subject - I know men are interested
but what about the ladies?
judicial caning...femaleNo score for this post
|July 6 2001, 7:49 AM |
Thanks Mary, that is the site. It hasn't been updated in months and lacks details. It's way more of a turn-on to me too than a belief. I'm not sold on it either. I look at a lot of things that go on in those places and shake my head. My point is that if it were implemented it would lower prison population, I think women should be included equally, and those are my feelings about how it should be set up. Believe me I've thought it out a lot!! Hopefully you'll hear from lots of women on the subject...I'd like to also. If you hear anything more let me know.
judicial disciplineNo score for this post
|July 11 2001, 1:54 AM |
I've just finished reading the various postings to this thread and am amazed that there are other people who feel the same way that I do. Thanks. I have always thought that there should be greater use of the cane or the paddle (on both males and females) within our society. I guess it's partly because I went to a an boy's boarding school and received the cane on more than a few occasions -- & YES, it was also used on the girls who were in attendance there as day students. I enjoy the pictures and the stories of judicial corporal punishment around the world. Till later, Brian_ca