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Forms Vs Drills

April 10 2001 at 3:15 AM
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  (Login baddmojo)
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Ok...guys which is more important to your "martial arts skills"? Forms or training drills?!!

 
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KungFuCowboy
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I prefer drills

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April 10 2001, 12:43 PM 

I used to love doing and learning new forms. But as I got older, I realized I was using them as a crutch to avoid a lot of issues.

These days, I might do only two or three forms per workout, usually the Sil Lum Tao, the Mook Yan Jong Kuen, the Kali superset or the Chun Yat Bo.

I prefer sheer repetition of the basics or developing short combinations, to be practiced in the air, on bags or on the dummy.

 
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Douglas W. Hodge
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forms

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May 7 2001, 8:27 PM 

KATA OF THE OLD OKINAWAN COMBATIVE SCHEMES ARE FOR REAL WORLD USE. NOT AESTHETICS. THESE MOVEMENTS WERE DESIGHNED IN A TIME WHEN FIGHTING WAS LIFE OR DEATH. MANY OF THE MOVEMENTS IN THE FORMS CONTAIN HIDDEN MOVEMENTS. ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO GET BEAT UP TO LEARN HOW TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. SPARRING IS NOT EVEN PART OF THE ORIGINAL PROVEN CURRICULUM, ALTHOUGH MENTAL TRAINING TO SUMMON THE WILL TO SURVIVE AT ALL COSTS IS A MUST. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY AROUND THIS; ONE MUST BE LOADED AS A GUN. HUMAN COMBATIVE TECHNOLOGY IS BASED ON MOVEMENTS THAT ALL HUMAN BEINGS CAN RELEASE. THE EXTENSION OF THE LEG OR ARM OF THE FOE IS VEIWED AS THE "COMING WIND OF ILL FATE". ONE DOES NOT RUSH IN TO THIS. THE WIND WILL DEFEAT YOU. MOST OF THE ORIGINAL MOVES WERE TO DEFLECT AND STRIKE AT THE SAME TIME. WHILE THE JAPANESE STYLES AND KOREAN STYLES REVEAL AWESOME AESTHETICS, THEY ARE ARTSY VERSIONS THAT WERE NOT CREATED DURING WAR, FOR WAR. FURTHER, ONE KATA WAS A LIFETIME PRACTICE. NOT ONE HUNDRED. ONE KATA HAD THE MOVEMENTS FOR ESCAPE AGAINST GRAPPLING AND FOR STRIKES. GRAPPLING WAS PART OF THE "TE" CURRICULUM IN OKINAWA. IT IS REPORTED THAT GICHEN FUNAKOSHI TAUGHT THE FOUNDER OF JUDO SOME GRAPPLING HE LEARNED IN OKINAWA. AND GICHEN WAS STRONGLY AGAINST SPARRING. I BELEIVE FUNAKOSHI WAS A WISE MAN WHO LEARNED FROM WISER ONES. THE ROOT IS OKINAWAN WHICH OF COURSE CAME FROM CHINAS KNOWLEDGE. THE CHINESE ARE THE SMARTEST HUMANS ON THE PLANET. WHILE THE REST OF US WERE DRAGGING OUR KNUCKLES THEY WERE MAKING GUN POWDER AND BLOWING THINGS UP! THIS IS THE SAME KIND OF TECHNOLOGY THAT WENT INTO THE CHINESE AND OKINAWAN SYSTEMS. THERE ARE MANY BRANCHES IN ALL SUBJECTS. THE ROOT IS HARD TO FIND. BUT THE ROOT HAS THE TRUTH IN IT. IT IS FINE TO SPAR AND BOUNCE FLESH AND BONE, FOAM RUBBER OR WHATEVER OFF ONE ANOTHER. BUT A WARRIOR IS NOT MADE IN SUCH A MATCH. A WARRIOR IS MADE IN WAR.

THANK YOU AND BE SAFE
DOUG

 
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Eddie
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Techniques came before Forms

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May 18 2001, 5:02 PM 

Being a teacher of Combat Fighting Systems, not martial art's, a former MARINE and a researcher of Fighting Art's

***For those who don't know the difference, A Martial Art is a fighting style from a military and was constructed and formatted to fit within that military structure. Americans have classified all Asian fighting art's under Martial Art's and is not the case in most instances, just because an art is taught to military personnel does not make it a Martial Art. A Combat Fighting System is one in which a people use to defend themselves, enforce laws and use in tribal wars, as still done today in Southeast Asia***

I can attest to the fact that forms came much later in the development of fighting arts to try and systemize and make the training easier to learn. Learning a form structured with 15 techniques in it is easier to remember than just 15 given techniques, it's more enjoyable in the process, can be practiced on ones own time and that is why they were developed. There are many ancient and new fighting styles that do not have forms, only technique.

Here are a few:
1) Tai Chi was developed from stationary chi-kung postures.
2) judo, Ju-Jitsu, and Aikido have no forms.
3) Pentjak Silat has no forms, yes jurus and langkas look like mini forms but are combinations.
4) Filipino styles, some do and some don't.
5) Boxing has no forms.
6) Greco-Roman wrestling has no forms.
7) Muay Thai has no forms.

So as far as forms being necessary in learning to fight the answer is NO! As being part of ancient combat, that is also not true depending on your definition of ancient. If your going back 3 or 4 hundred years in some cultures yes, but if your going back thousands of years in all cultures no.

One must also look at the fact that most forms were derived to fight the same type style. For example a karate form was developed as a mock fight against another karate practitioner and so allot of the blocks, strikes, kicks and pressure point applications just don't fit the modern self defense scenario.

I do not teach forms and opt to do more 2 man drills as I feel that one learns to protect themselves faster and more realistic with drills than forms.

 
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