A doctor who undertakes a surgical operation in spite of doubts about the diagnosis is acting amorally at very least. For this very reason politicians and doctors fear the retrospective revision of a diagnosis more than anyone. If one starts to analyze the US moves, their steps seem to be lacking in logic and reason. Even if Afghanistan is a “hub of terrorists”, who are to be annihilated, the recent antiterrorist operation is still meant to cope with the threat of global terrorism. And one doesn’t need a magnifying glass to see that Afghanistan is not the only place presenting a potential threat to the world. The conflict in Macedonia has already become a big headache for everyone in Europe. Albanian extremists backed up by terrorist rabble thronging from Kosovo, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Xing Xian and God knows where else from “defend” everything, but not the Albanian minority’s interests. May be it’s high time for Washington to admit its mistakes and start calling things by their proper names. It should just try to be honest. The US have already made the first step on this way having differentiated the Chechen separatists as terrorists. So it’s now turn for the Albanian extremists.

Albanian "extremists and terrorists" in Macedonia are people who got tired of being insulted, beaten, and killed by out of control cops. Since the Macedonian government supported our invasion of Kosovo, murderous behavior against Albanians was winked at by NATO governments. Instead of teaching modern policing methods, we encouraged the police to beat and kill without restraint. That brought us the UCK insurrection.

What you guys want is a grand alliance of the dumbest bullies of the world, the politicians in Washington, Moscow, and Peking, against small independence-minded nations.

Matt: It looks like you're the victim of some tricky propaganda. If you know anything about the Balkans, you'll know that nothing is as simple as it appears at first. The stories you hear on CNN of police brutality against Albanians are taken way out of proportion and overblown ten times over. Albanians in Macedonia enjoy the same rights as any other minority, and most Albanians are happy. It is only a few extremists who are stiring up trouble with their quest for independence.

Macedonia's terrorist problem is being portrayed in the US as a legitimate fight against oppression, which it is not. Macedonia is a democracy, and their only goal is to keep the country together. The US should put its support firmly behind Macedonia and assist them in disarming the rebels (by force if necessary), and then everyone (Albanians and Macedonians alike) can all get some peace.

By the way, Washington, Moscow, and Peking have completely different interests. To suggest that they are conspiring against Albania is bogus. The US has no interest at all in the Balkans, except the oil pipeline which runs from the Caspian sea.

And Albanians had all the rights after Milosevic came to power as well, Greg? And their University was untouched? No repression against them? And what really amuses me is that talk about minorities. Albanians form 90% of Kosovo. Around 30% in Macedonia (according to some surveys even to 40%). That's not just a minority.

That was a stupid response. I was talking about Macedonia, and out of nowhere you bring up Kosovo and Milosevic. It's like you don't even see they are two completely different things. Milosevic had power over Macedonia several years ago, but he doesn't any more, and he has nothing at all to do with Macedonia any more. Today Albanians in Macedonia enjoy the same rights as any other minorities in any other country, just like here in the USA. Most of them are happy, like I said it's a very small number of Albanians who will not be happy unless half of Macedonia is taken away and given to Albania. Obviously that is not reasonable, and it's these people who are giving the rest of Albanians a bad name and causing trouble for everyone.

Guys, there is no reason to insult each other. If you cannot get through to someone when his heart is into something, by calling your opponent stupid you lose the argument fast. Blaz is a Slovenian patriot, and he has reduced the argument back to an issue dear to his heart, translating the Macedonian issue into terms fitting into the Ljubljana-Belgrade debate over Kosovo in 1989. I disagree with Blaz on that issue, but I propose a solution that might be acceptable to everyone.

In 1967 I was detained at gunpoint by very aggressive National Guardsmen and policemen in Newark, New Jersey. They had shot thirty-four Blacks in the two preceding days, and were now delighted to have captured me and my friends Bliss, Charlotte and Bill, because I was Italian and Charlotte was Swiss. They were looking for "foreign agitators." We were clearly on the way to the beach, two young couples with beach and picnic implements. But that did not faze the warriors. The accepted view of the world from Newark to the Mississippi Delta was that "our Nigras are happy, it's them foreign agitators what causes our problems." They did not understand that insults, beatings and torture by police cause riots.

Police misbehavior is similar and has similar effects everywhere in the world. Cops in Pristina four years ago, and still now in Skopje, Peking, Moscow, and Brooklyn, all behave similarly, if they think they are going to get away with anything they do to prisoners. Cops in London and Copenhagen have for many years behaved differently, they knew they would not get away with beating to death a prisoner.

In regards to Skopje, we are not dealing with CNN propaganda. We are dealing with overwhelming evidence of atrocities, the evidence being as good as the evidence for similar horrors in Texas or in Turkey. The worst thing is that NATO powers encouraged such an attitude on the part of the Skopje government because they wanted to use them in their assault against Yugoslavia.

The Crusade against Islam I am talking about is now taking shape because the three great raging bullies just happen to have Moslem opponents they want to destroy, no matter what it will cost their countries.

I am sorry to dissapoint you Matt, but the status of Albanians in Kosovo has nothing to do with Ljubljana-Belgrade or Slovenia - Serbia issues. Cause there are none, from my side. I only mentioned a fact that Albanians were quite happy with the autonomy they had before 1988, there was no KLA, no repression against them or from their side. Milosevic obviously changed that. Not only did he revoke the autonomy of Kosovo, but of Vojvodina as well. That Matt, are facts. Nothing to do with hatred, at least not from my side. Serbs are great people, but man did they choose the worst kind of leadership in the 1990's. I guess if Stambolic had been powerful enough to stop Milosevic in the end of the 80's many things would be very different. Unfortunately he couldn't. He couldn't stop nor the man, nor the mentality. Which grew with the likes of Arkan, Seselj, Mladic, Karadzic. And it could have been the opposite.

But I do agree that the situation in Macedonia is different.

And Matt, I am not really a patriot. At least not the kind of patriots I am seeing lately on TV. I will not defend my country if it did something wrong all bad. Just as I won't defend such people. I can accept critism if it's justified and true. You won't see me waving the flag, shouting nationalistic slogans, praising everything in Slovenia, cause I am not that kind of man. That doesn't mean that I don't love my country, cause I do, but I do reserve to be highly critical towards it if it's necessary at times. Just as the Americans or any others should be. And not accepted everything for granted under the disguise of patriotism and fighting against terrorism, when you have people that have nothing to do with terrorism being killed. I think we both agree here.

Blaz, in America "patriot" is a good term, originally it was synonimous to rebel or guerrilla.

Then there are the yahoos who think they are patriots, such as UK Man, you should not miss his message under the heading "National Interest above All."

As for Macedonia, I agree, the situation of Albanians there is different from the way it was in Kosovo, definitely worse.

Blaz, in America "patriot" is a good term, originally it was synonimous to rebel or guerrilla.

Then there are the yahoos who think they are patriots, such as UK Man, you should not miss his message under the heading "National Interest above All."

As for Macedonia, I agree, the situation of Albanians there is different from the way it was in Kosovo, definitely worse.

Well when you have people like David Duke, KKK, Rush Limbaugh, Aryan Nations and a bunch of other right-wing nutcases calling themselves patriots, you begin to take great caution with it, since different people see a different meaning in patriotism. To quite a few it means bashing blacks and Muslims, talking about deporting Muslims from the USA, and waving confederate flags, which is a sign of pure racism. Unfortunately I have come about too many of such cases. And the word patriotism has gotten even a negative connotation, even though you'r right that is wasn't meant so originally. But as ever true patriots and heroes are those that don't brag loudly and who don't use hatred as their platform for their patriotism, but their honorable actions. 90% of those hopping on the wagon are fakes and hypocrits, that's my observation anyway.

As for Albanians, that one about the situation being worse for them in Macedonia is a bit harsh. How many of them were killed (even massacred) in Kosovo and how many in Macedonia. How much of their infrastructure (including the famous Mosque in Pec) were destroyed in Kosovo and how many in Macedonia. So if you look such facts, the situation in Kosovo was worse in many many ways. KLA made it only worse then by using the same methods that Milosevic "practiced" on Albanians, just this time it were the Serbs being the victims.

Matt, Blaz, why do you hate Macedonians so much? Did a Macedonian woman turn you down for a date or something? They are very nice people, I know one man here at work who is Macedonian, he's the nicest guy I ever met.

Macedonians have endured terrible hardships for hundreds of years, under Tito, the Ottomans before that, the Byzantines, the Romans, and finally now they have their own independent country, only to have a third of it occupied by American-backed Albanian rebels. And they are willing to negotiate with Albanians, because recently the Macedonians brought in several Albanians into their leadership so that all sides are represented. Macedonia is a wonderful beutiful country, and they don't deserve to be ravaged by war. Hopefully this will be straightened out soon.

I am afraid you misunderstood me Greg. Where did I say that I hated Macedonians? I don't. I have absolutely nothing against them, even more, they are actually very nice people as you have already said.

I was talking about the situation of Albanians (before) in Kosovo under Milosevic being much worse then in Macedonia actually. So don't you worry, no Macedonian woman turned me down for a date.

Macedonians did not suffer particularly under Tito, who established their separate nationality. Under the Ottomans and in the First Yugoslavia they were part of the Bulgarian nation. They could not suffer much under the Romans, they had not arrived yet.

Ad hominem arguments don't work well in my case, since I am the guy who wrote the list of UCK atrocities against Macedonian Slavs that you can read on this site. I just do not like to see them used by NATO: last spring they were egged on by the West into a war they cannot win. The NATO warlords gave the thumbs-up sign when Macedonian police beat to death or shot demonstrators in 1997.

I was treated very well by all Macedonians, I was treated very properly by their policemen when they detained me. However, when under pressure, Macedonian cops use against Albanians methods of the Ottoman or Texan variety, as opposed to British methods, and that is the immediate cause of rebellion. Since I love Macedonia, I support the Macedonian Academy's proposal to exchange most of the Albanian majority areas for Macedonian areas in Albania. The alternative is war or oppressed minority status for Macedonians when they become a minority in 20 years.

Of course, the choice will be war. Washington vetoed Serb partition proposals for Kosovo in 1990 and again in 1999.

Casualties in Macedonia and in Yugoslavia were about evenly split between Slavs and Albanians. The difference is in the background. Since the 1960's, Kosovo Serbs, Montenegrins, Gorani, Turks, Slavic Moslems, Roma, Ashkaelia, Croats, and Circassians, were subject to discrimination, denationalization, persecution, and violence by Albanians, while in Macedonia the discrimination and violence flowed in the opposite direction until this year's UCK insurrection.

Matt, most of what you say is true, but somehow you'r forgetting that Albanians were terrorised and killed themselves, by Serb police and palamilitary forces. And what do you think those corpse in Belgrade secret mass graves are? A Serb reservist testified how he secretly drove trucks filled with Albanian civilians from Kosovo into Serbia, to hide trace of war crimes.

I hope you'r not telling me that it was all a big lie, and that Albanians were treated nicely throughout most of the 1990's. Even many many Serbs realise and recognize that. And they can deal with it. I have found more people outside Serbia (Serb pro-Chetnik emigration?) having a problem acknowledging it and denying that anything bad happened from their side.

Especially during 1988-1996. Remember Arkan and his tigers standing over of slaughtered Albanians, Racak, Pec? You can't forget those things Matt. They happened.

Too much of what the Serbs are accused of did happen. Serbs are as stupid and as prone to violence as Italians or Americans, and I speak here as an Italo-American. Serbs cops under pressure are as apt to lose it as American cops. The guilt for tolerating that resides at the highest political levels. In Serbia that meant Milosevic.

Fine. But all the wrong and stupid things the Serbs did, they did after being attacked by Germany for the third time in the 20th Century. Germany in the 70's and 80's provided the secret services environment in which flourished the Croat terrorists responsible for the "Yugoslav strategy of tension". The West sabotaged the Yugoslav economy and financed neo-nazi parties in Croatia. The West blessed and financed the secession war of Croatia. The West financed the secession war of Kosovo. The West provided military trainers who taught the UCK how to make bombs to place at the farmers markets. Without foreign intervention there would have never been conflict in Yugoslavia. When Bush Sr. and Clinton are taken to The Hague, then we could accept that InterNATO tribunal as a legitimate one.

As for the truck full of bodies driven by a reservist, who just decides to roll into the Danube, the story is so ridiculous and full of contradictions that one should spot it at once as being directed by someone who watched too many Hollywood movies. The purpose of the story was to soften-up Serbia's public opinion in preparation for the delivery of the head of Milosevic to Washington.
Would a Serb whose wages are $50 a month roll a truck worth $5000 in the Danube, or would he sell it?

With many of these things.

Hey Habib, how is it in Mesquite, Texas? Is the weather fine? Long way from Afghanistan isn't it?

That's not Habib, that's an impostor. Habib volunteered for a very special operation in Afghanista. I regret I have reason to believe he is still there, horizontal and six feet under.

I think that this can not be compared with a movie, and this is not ridiculous to the albanian people who lost their family members and yet don't know what has happened with them.
A lot of those people who "rolled a truck in Danube" cooperated with some "other ones" that were criminals and most of them were under drogs and did horrible things in Kosovo. This may sound ridiculous to you but not to me. I was a whitness of many many things that happened during the war in Kosovo, and I say that the things that happened here are the things that you cannot imagine that the human been can do. I'm sorry to say this, but this is the truth eventhough it is difficult to accept, the terror that the serbians did in Kosovo it can't be described not even by the best Hollywood movie. I see it is difficult for Serbians to accept they did the worst but it is the fact and no matter how much they deny it, there will always be facts and proves.