Can someone tell me explain to me why some people spell Kosova like this and Kosovo like that.

Is Kosovo an American Spelling? or

is do Albanians spell Kosovo

and the serbs spell Kosova like this?

Thanks very much

Roly

from UK

Thanks found the answer

Roly

Yes, there is a lengthy discussion about the issue, started in 2004, about 30 or 40 threads below, under the title "Kosovo or Kosova."

The discussion was inconclusive, except that Serbs know they named the land while Albanians insist that they were always there, without explaining the reason why they use Serbian names for mountains and lakes.

Why not use a name that has a meaning in your own language? Why not name rivers and mountains if you got there first, why accept names given by the most recent conquerors? Nobody else does.

Conquered nations never change toponyms to fit the conqueror's style. So why would the Albanians be willing to be the exception, even though they came to be the lords and masters of the land under the Ottoman Empire?

Maybe you are right matt,you are the primal conquerers of the balkans(I am talking about the slavs)I just had one question:could you find me an encyclopedia, neither albanian or slavic which explained the albanian origins(especially the language,since we do not have many words and we need the serbian dictionary)
Oh another thing is(if you consider albanian a mixture of languages) that we have the least latin words in european modern languages,least slavonic in eastern and center europe and more old greek than even the greeks themselves.
So...please reply.

I am sincerely curious about the origin of the Albanian language. I do not deny that Albanians have Illyrian roots. I just say that Kosovo toponyms are of Slavic origin. If the Albanians had been there first, they would have continued to use their old words for mountains and towns, instead of translating them.

Xeni, very interesting the Greek words factor. Tell us more.

I want to add that I am not in any way denying the ancient character of the Albanian language. It may well have developed from that of some ancient inhabitants of the Balkans.

All I say is that the Kosovo plains in the Middle Ages were Slav, and that there were Albanians, mostly involved in shepherding, in the mountainous areas. They traded with each other, there is no record of conflict or persecution.

Kosovo was a mostly Slav region, and there is reason to believe that the Slavs came first, otherwise they would have adopted the names of mountains already given by the Albanians. The opposite happened.

Related to your last message matt I would like to comment on the origins of the topography of many places not only in Kosovo but also in Albania.Illiricum is thout to have extended from the rivers Sava and Drava in the northern balkans to the gulf of arta in northern greece and only to about Shkup(skopje)in the east,thus you still have the name "dalmatia"(illyrian tribe) with which the croats proud themselves and proclaim to be assimilated slavs but illyrian blood.moving from Croatia to Kosovo I suppose you should know that if Kosovo was to get it's indipendence they are to change the name of the country "Dardania" another Illyrian tribe that was situated where modern day Kosovo is.Now if you were to accept the origins of the Albanians(by which I mean our decendancy from the illyrians) you would understand that the land has been illyrian or albanian if you wish to call it this way for a long time before the migration of the slavs to the balkans.
According to modern day history after the roman invasion of illyria the population was reduced to 1/3.And if i remember correctly a quote from a greek historian of the 1 century b.c was "If all the slaves in the world were to be united,they would not make the number of slaves taken from Illyria".
unfortunately for us matt we were a brave people but also an ignorant one it seems since the first documents of albanian language don't come up until the begining of the 13th century and that is when cities in western europe had universities.
Kosovo has been under slav influence for centuries and the people have lived in peace since the migration of the slavs was relatively peaceful and the people have lived together in the same land and since we were the ones without the written language it is normal that if a name was to be recorded for a place it would have been recorded in slavonic.
Related to your curiosity on the origins of the albanian language an arvanitas(albanians in greece) scholar has published a study of a mere few pages in 1989 and he was going to finish the book when the full study would be complete unfortunately he was assasinated(Aristidh kola).I have not been able to get his other books unfortunately since our country and i do not say this proudly is dominated by greeks and so the books have not been published but a few and they have not been publicized in any manner although most of the albanians from whatever part of the world know about the writter and his studies.
These are a few words the writter has takken out of Iliada and Oddisea althouh you might not understand them notice the similarities between the first(albanian) and the second(homeric greek) and the disimilaritis with the third(bizantine greek)

Shqip Homerike Bizantine
(Greqishtja e sotme)
Ai qė nėm, nėm (folje) Neme-sis, neme-sao Katara
Anda, ėnda Andha-no Efkharistisi
Arė, ara Arura Horįfi
Bashkė ec Vask ithi Porevume
Dera Thira Porta
Deti Theti-s Thalasa
Dhe, dheu (tokė)Jea, dhor, dha Ji
Dor-ė, dor-a Ekedeka-dor-o Qheri
Dru Dris, drimos, driti Ksilo
Edhe, dhe Idhe, te Qe
Elbė, elbi Alfiton Krithari
Enė (veshje) Enimi Ruho
Errėt, errėsirė Ere-vos Skotos
Ethe (kam ethe) Ethir, ethae Piretos
Flas Flio, fliarae Milao, omilae
Fryma, frima (dialekt jugor) Frimao Fisima
Hedh Heo Rhino, tinazo, sio
Heq (helkj = tėrheq) Elko Travae
Iki, ike Iko Fevgo
Kale, kali Kelis-tos įlogo
Kall (djeg) Kileo Qeo
Korr Kiro Thiro
Krua, kroi Krunos Vrisi
Krye, krie Krithen, kari Qefali
Lehem (lind) Leho, lohia Jenieme
Lepur Leporis Lagaes
Lesh Lasios Malå
Lig (i lig) Lig-ios, lig-aes Adhinatos
Loz, ljoz (arbėrisht) Lizo Pezo
Lutem Litome Parakalae
Marr, mar Mar-pto Perno
Marrė (i marrė) Margos Trelaes
Mė duket Dhokei mi Nomizo
Mend, mendoj Mendohem Medhome Sqeftome, nus
Mėri, mėni (dialekt verior) Minis Thimos
Mi, miu Mis Pondåqi
Mjeshtėr Mistor Tehnitis
Mjet Mitos Nima hondrae
Ndaj, daj (dialekt verior) Dheo, deo Horizon
Ne (neve) Noi Emis
Nisem Nisome Ksqinae
Nuk Ni uk Dhen
Nuse Nisos, nios Nifi
Para (pėrpara) Paros Mbrostį
Pėr ty Par ti Ja sena
Pėr-hapa, pėr-hapsh Apsh, aps Piso
Punė, puna Ponos Dhuliį
Qas, kias Qio, kio Simono
Qen, qeni Qion Sqilos
Re, retė Rea (perėndia e reve) Sinefo
Rrah Rahso, raso Dherno, htipae
Rri (qėndroj) e-ri-dhome Kathome
Rronjė (rroj, jetoj) Rronio, rronimi Zo, akmazo
Ruaj, rojtar Rrio, rritor Filįso
Shkel Skel-os Patio, patae
Shkop Skipon, skiptro Ravdhi
Sy O-se Mįti
Tata, ati, i jati Tata, ata, jetas Pateras
Ter (thaj) Ter-so Stegnaeno
Thėrres, thrres, thrras Threo, throos Fonazo
Torrė Tornoo Jiro
Udhė, udha Udhos Dhromos
Vanė (shkuan) Van Pigan
Vend, ved Ved-os, vedh-os Edhafos, topos
Verė (stina e Verės) Vear Kaloqeri
Vesa, versa Versi Dhrosos
Vesh, vishem Ves-this, vesnimi Forae, forįo
Zien Zei Vrazi

Unfortunately the copy paste isn't working correcty but if you want the original document in word format just tell me and I will send it to you

I have studied ancient Greek, and as I said before, I do not deny the Illyrian roots of the Albanian language.

As for your explanation of Slav toponyms in Kosovo, the standard is for the conquerors, if they do not wipe out the conquered, to bastardize the original toponyms. Even when the conquerors make an effort to change usage, even when the conquering nation monopolizes education, the natives continue to use the old names. For example, in the Italian-conquered region around Trieste, the Slovenes kept saying Opcina and Repentabor, even though the bus schedule said Opicina and Monrupino, even though it was not acceptable to speak Slovene in some public places.

So are you from Chamuria? What's the situation there for speaking and writing Albanian? This scholar, Aristidh Kola, how did he came to be killed?

"Ju lutem mos ushqeni asnje iluzion. Mua mė
vrane dhe keshtu kane vepruar edhe me dy kryetaret
tjere te Shoqates sė Shqiptareve "Marko Boēari", te
cilet vdiqen, edhe keta, nga "leucemia".
Keto fjale ua kam thene edhe miqve te tjere te mij"...

Fjalet e arvanitasit te madh Aristidh P. Kolia
ne shtratin e vdekjes.

"Please do not feed any ilusions.I was killed and so have they acted with the other two directors(main heads) of the albanian society "Marko bocari" whom also died from "leucemia".I've told these words to the other friends of mine..."

The words of Aristidh Kola on his death bed.He is thought to have been poisoned by greek secret services.He was the president of the arvanitas society Marko bocari.
Arvanitas are not Chams.Arvanitas is a very ancient word recorded in greece,and by that name are called albanians which have always been there.Chameria has always been albanian before the partition after WW2 thus chams are muslims and have albanian names whether arvanitas are greek orthodox and have greek names,but some of them are very nationalistic.
I am not from chameria,unfortunately there are no more chams in chameria.In Chameria has happened exatly what happened in Kosovo.After WW2 all albanians living in northern greece were pushed out of the country and they have not been allowed to go back since.Last year it was decided after 60 years that their lands would be put for sale by the greek government.
So we have already experienced what happened in kosovo but in Kosovo,it was stopped.
Related to the topic,you must remember that the slavs have migrated mainly in peace so they were not a conquerer and we were not conquered.
Anyway for that matter,there is a city in Albania ant it is called "Elbasan" it has been build after the otomans raised to the groud a very ancient city called "Egnatia".Elbasan means "hand smasher" and was given to the city by the turks and the name has remained to this day.Plus you must remember that maybe the name of the place has changed to Kosovo but the name of the places are mainly albanian (prishtine,gjakove etc).
anyway if you do support the theory that there might have been migrations of albanians toward Kosovo,you must understand that the migration interest of albanians has never been serbia,but greece and other wealthy countries of the time.

I was of the opinion that Albanians are honourable, freedom loving people, but let's look at some historical facts. Most of Albanians had been Catholic in religion before the Turks came to the Balkans, but they rushed to be Moslem when the Turks came in order to gain a lot of priviliges. Similarly there are 20% Orthodox Albanians in Albania. Their excuse for converting into Islam is that they suffered a lot under Turkish oppression. As though Orthodox Serbs, Greeks, Bulgarians were trated differently by the Turks. The truth is the opposite. Albanians had their high mountains to hide from the Turkish oppressors but instead they ran to convert into Islam and gain benefits from that. They thus came into the fertile lands of Kosovo from their mountains in Albania after the christian Serbs were driven away from Kosovo by the Turks.
Are they aware that a country named Albania existed in Caucasus and that anthropologists and ethimologists found a lot of similiarities with Albanians and the indigenous people there?

It does look like you asuming things here, but to my knowledge it that most of Albanians are muslim were because of thier hard living conditaions they were facing by the turks and the once who are not muslim are the once from the mountains and where there was a great resitance, ofcourse lets not forget about the arbreshis who feld to Italy just because they did not want to change their religion. How would say bosnians changed to islam they actually serbs but muslim. but at the end of the day these things did not happen just in Ballkans but everywhare.

What are you talking about Fatos?


>> ... but to my knowledge it that most of Albanians are muslim were because of thier hard living conditaions they were facing by the turks and the once who are not muslim are the once from the mountains and where there was a great resitance...<<

- what percentage of the population are you talking about 5 – 10%? as the result of great resistance. What would be the percentage if the resistance had not been so great?

>> ... ofcourse lets not forget about the arbreshis who feld to Italy just because they did not want to change their religion. <<

- again what percentage of the population you are talking about? Even today as we speak there are small boats and drafts full of Albanians crossing over to Italy. Are they doing so in order to preserve the religion of their ancestors or in search of better living conditions?

>> How would say bosnians changed to islam they actually serbs but muslim<<

- My friend read some newspapers, books, get informed, educate. In Bosnia the Serbs today have their Republic of Srpska (100% keeping the religion of their ancestors). In Bosnia there were also Croats and Bosniacs when the Turks arrived. Even then, Moslims are today not absolute majority in whole Bosnia - 35-40%.

>> but at the end of the day these things did not happen just in Ballkans but everywhare. <<

- Hardly the case, Albania is the only Moslem country in Europe with absolute Moslem majority – over 70%.

Regards.

I think that Fatos is right. Perhaps 1/2 of the Albanian population escaped to Italy, not to seek well-paying jobs, but in fear of the conquering Turks.

But what is the problem of convertion? Is it bad for Pakistani Muslims to convert to Christianity? Is it bad for Africans to convert to Catholicism and for South Americans to become Evangelicals? They do it because they met a clever missionary and because American and European missionaries have jobs, education, and medical care to give to converts.

Conversion is not a sign of greed or weakness, it is a sign of realism. People want their children to do well, so they convert to the religion of the powerful.

Even to side with the Nazis is WW2 so as to harass their neighbour Christian Serbs without punishment?

And today: http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/crime2.htm

BTW. Kosovo is a Serbian word meaning the field of black birds, the field where Serbs defended Christian Europe from Turks back in 1389 - "The Battle of Kosovo". Since Albanians are missing the word for it they just named it Kosova so as not to sound so Serbian.

>>Is it bad for Pakistani Muslims to convert to Christianity?<<

... Are you talking about the Pakistanis in Bradford and Sheffield? You will probably have more recruits for the London tube terrorist act than the ones converting to Christianity.

Tolerance is a very nice word in the dictionary but when 15% of your territory is endangered than it is a different thing.

No, it's Pakistanis in Pakistan who convert to Christianity and are persecuted for it.

Anyway, Serbia lost so much because of weak leadership, not because of Albanian converts to Islam. The government in Belgrade refused to stand up against European and American aggression. Worse, it behaved badly towards prisoners in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Croatia, and failed to control its irregular forces.

No, it's Pakistanis in Pakistan who convert to Christianity and are persecuted for it.

Anyway, Serbia lost so much because of weak leadership, not because of Albanian converts to Islam. The government in Belgrade refused to stand up against European and American aggression. Worse, it behaved badly towards prisoners in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Croatia, and failed to control its irregular forces.

Lett's assume this situation. You go to any Moslem Sheriat country to preach Christianity and we meet here again to hear your experiance in one year (if you make it alive of course). I understand you are trying to persuade someone to back up your argument but to delude yourself is beyond comprehension. Things are more than obvcious if you are only prepared to see them.

As to Serbia you talk only about the last 10 - 15 years. Try to comprise the problem historically from the very roots and from all sides, and of course without bias.

>>No, it's Pakistanis in Pakistan who convert to Christianity and are persecuted for it.>>

- Those Pakistanies are not converting to Chtistianity now but became Christians during the colonization time when Pakistan/India were English colonies. And yes, you got my point, they are indeed being persecuted.

A few still do convert, even in Saudi Arabia. Do we accuse them of weakness of character? No, we honor their right to choose.

Why attack the grandparents of today's Albanian? Including all the pretty Serb girls, kidnapped 100 years ago. And all the Serb families who converted to Islam and were absorbed into Albanian society, losing their Slav identity.

They did exactly what the grandparents of so many good Goranci (Slavic Muslims in the region of Prizren) did, hundreds of years ago. Same for the Bosnjaks, from Mitrovica, Kosovo to Bihac, Bosnia. They converted, just as the Slavs had converted to Christianity in the first millenium. Nema problema, people convert and the world goes on.

Why insult your friends and neighbors, even your allies? Why pick a fight with the good people of Bihac and Zur, just because they honor a different holy book?

Mainstream Islam forbids converting from Islam to another religion. In some Islam-controlled states, such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan, conversion from Islam is punishable by death or imprisonment.

Here are some thoughts of an American writter for you:

„When PC propagandists assure us that jihadist terror doesn't reflect "true," "peaceful" Islam, they're not only wrong, they're dangerous -- because they lull America and the West into letting their guard down against their mortal enemy. And not only do self-appointed "experts" lie elaborately and persistently about Islam -- they have also replaced the truth about Christian Europe and the Crusades with an all-pervasive historical fantasy that is designed to make you ashamed of your own culture and heritage -- and thus less determined to defend it. But now there's a remedy: in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), Robert Spencer reveals all the disturbing facts about Islam and its murderous hostility to the West that other books ignore, soft-pedal -- or simply lie about.“

You mentioned Gorani people near Prizren. Even they are harassed by Kosovo Albanians and forecefully assimilated. Remember that Moslem people of Bihac area had their leader in Balkan conflicts and called him „BABA". They were indeed on very friendly terms with their Serbian neighbours. You mentioned kidnapping of young Serbian girls - that too is a speciality of Kosovo Albanians. Nowadays they even kidnapp of their own kind. Have you read that article – Emperor’s clothes? And you would live in peace with somebody who kidnapped your daughter or a member of your extended family?

Absurd to keep a grudge over grandma's sister being kidnapped 120 years ago. Just remember history, so you won't have to hate your poor Albanian cousins.

The Muslims of Abdic in Bihac were attacked and destroyed by NATO. Why? Because they did not want to kill Serbs.

Who sacked Costantinople? The Goddam Crusaders.

Who terrorized Europe, burning and pillaging? Crusaders.

Who sacked Jerusalem? Crusaders.

WHo burned churches, mosques, and synagogues, with the people inside? Crusaders.

Now they are back at it, burning Baghdad, Kabul, and Tyre. After a few little raids on Mitrovica and Belgrade.

Dear Matt,it is a pleasure to see that the forum has become much livlier since my last post.
I have had no time to post since school started once more and this term I have a load of classes which are very difficult(at least to me).
I did not read all the posts of Apis or yours for that matter,but I noticed that Apis is basing his bashing at albanians on religion.
i would like to clarify a couple of points as to why and how did albanians convert.
Albania after being convertet as the rest of the balkans was mainly christian orthodox with western cities being predominantly catholic due to italian influences and keeping the old religion of the roman empire.
When our national hero Skanderbeg (whose "hat" can be found in Vienna,Austia and in which "in nomi di patris,figlis et spiritus santis" is written)came back form Turkey to take over the kingdom of his father he did not fight just the turks,he fought for his allies too.
One of his allies happened to be the king of Naples who asked his help against the French.Skenderbeg helped him and in reward,the region of Calabria,the region where Albanians still reside in Italy was given to him.
After 27 years of war the wrath of the turks was understandeble when they retook Albania since Skenderbeg had been a stick in the wheel.Egnatia and Kruja two major cities were raised to the ground and the population migrated by the thousands to Italy.
The ones who remained had to pay for Skenderbeg's adventure at having his own state,so I don't know if it was a smart move on his part.
Turks call Albania "Arnavutluk" which lusely translated means "the ones who don't bow their head" and while reading war and peace I was surprised at a part where Tolstoy had a general call his soldiers "arnaut" when being unruly.
Anyway,it is of little importance the religion we adhere to.As the old used to say "the religion of an albanian is albanianism"

So it was grandma’s sister that has been abducted. How did it happen, tell us, perhaps there is remedy.

As we can see the bunker propaganda from Albania is on the road again. People wondered why those Enver Hoxha’s bunkers have not been pulled down in Albania but now we can see that they are justifying their prime cause.

BTW Matt, having long beards is not so wise since people would mistake you for a Moslem fundamentalist after another 9/11 incident and you might get in trouble.



If Kosovo Albanians are not so ardent extremist believers why are 1000 mosques being built at the moment and Christian churches pulled down?

Greater Albania was in interest of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, greater Albania is factor of destabilization of Balkans and Europe.

ARNAUT :
An inhabitant of Albania and neighboring mountainous regions, specifically one serving as a soldier in the Turkish army.

Sen de turkce biliyormusun Apis,cunku ben kuzey kibrista birkac aylar icin yasindaydim(you speak turkish too Apis because I used to live in Northern Cyprus for some months).
kosovo=Kosovo in online serbian-english dictionaries.
It is faily normal to build mosques in a region where 95% of the population is muslim.BUt if you want to take an example of a religious catastrophe just take the example of Serbia-Bosnia-Croatia.Serbs killing serbs just because of their religion.
Beautiful women are a spoil of war.We have our own stories too of Serbians kiddnaping our women.The SS Skenderbeg batalion has existed,you are right,but you must also take note that we (Albania) are honored in Jerusalem as on of the countries where no jews were harmed(exept on who died as a partizan in the national liberation war).
You are also right when you say that a greater Albania was in the interest of Nazi germany and fashist italy,but it was and is an interest of Albanians too,although they arent permited to have a word in it.If we were to choose between Serbia and the west logicaly (as all ex-yugoslav republics have done) we would choose the west.
A major political debate has taken place in the past few weeks since documents came up of a proposed merger of Albania into yugoslavia in the years 45-50 but which did not happen,but it got me thinking : a major balkan state would have been decisive in European and global politics.But unfortunately as you can imagine it is impossible due to racial tensions.Anyway hope dies last,dosn't it :D

So its 3 on 1, a perfect setting for (Kosovo) Albanians to attack. OK, at least the last one had the courage to admit some much known facts.
- Look in some comprehensive Serbian – English dictionary for the root word “KOS” and you will find what you are looking for. Had you done that earlier perhaps we wouldn’t have the problems we are facing now.
- Yes, over 90% of today’s Kosovo population is Moslem. As the result of what? Whenever a strong occupying force comes and invades the Balkans, Kosovo Albanians tend to join their armies in order to pull down some more medieval Christian churches and expel some more of their Christian neighbors. (Ottoman Turks, Nazi Germany …). The same goes for Macedonia, partly Greece and so on.
- As for Bosnia there were war atrocities committed by all three parties involved. And don’t worry, nobody is proud of them. By the way, did you hear about the Nazi concentration camp of Jasenovac in WW2. Nearly one million Serbs and Jews have been brutally executed in that camp. Well, I am sorry the Serbs did not just sit down and wait for the same destiny.
- If anybody shared the same destiny with the Jews during WW2 it would be the Serbs. Check the numbers with the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, even today they give detected names of Nazi murderers and share them with Serbia since the hand of the justice is slow but prevails at the end.
- Kosovo Albanians in the resistance movement and the Partisans? In what numbers? When? Maybe by changing sides three days before it was obvious who would win at the end.
- And the Kosovo independence issue. How would you do it? By violating the International Law and the UN Charter? By force? If Kosovo gains independence why not Hungarians in Romania, Basque and Catalonian in Spain, Corsicans in France, Northern Ireland joining the Republic of Ireland, independent Scotland and so on. Quite a mess no?
- Of course we all strive to join western countries, primarily the EU, but do you thing that will happen by destroying Christian churches, monuments, graveyards, expulsions and so on? Amend what can be done from the past, live and let others

In numerous regions of the world, abduction marriage has been known. Occasionally, the abduction was consensual.

In Kosovo, 100 years ago, it was quite unlikely for Serbs to kidnap Albanian women, since Serbs were not allowed to bear arms. Any Slav abduction of Albanian girls must have happened on the Albanian-Montenegrin border. And thanks to Xeni for giving his historical insight to this forum.

There were Kosovo Albanian partisans, but you could not expect too many, since Serb rule had not been the most progressive, especially during the Balkan wars and just after WWI. Kosovo Albanians, in the 19th Century, had been masters, and they naturally desired to be masters once again. It should not be surprising that Kosovo Albanians favored the Axis.

On the other hand, the Belgrade government did not engage in the destruction of mosques, and, on the whole, life was easier for Kosovo Albanians under the King of Yugoslavia than it had been for Kosovo Serbs under Ottoman-Albanian rule.

OK matt, now you are talking. For every action there is a reaction, that’s how things worked in the Balkans. Nice you admitted that life had been hard for Serbs/Montenegrins under Ottoman-Albanian rule (almost 6 centuries) and even then they still stuck to their Christian religion and did not convert to Islam.

Some eagles fly high-Petar Petrovic Njegos.

Nice that I admit it? I suppose I will have to admit I was not sufficiently impartial editing the minority victims list of kosovoforum?

By the way, Xeni was right: Albanians in Albania did help the Jews survive, continuing the Italian Army's policy of denying access to Eichman's boys, while in Kosovo the Skanderbeg boys rounded up the Jews.

Being anti-Nazi is rational, being anti-Albanian or anti-Muslim is barbaric and irrational.

OK matt, no bad feelings, no hate, just praise of the brave ancestors. Nothing personal.

now we can be friends

Yes matt - friends. All best!

now that friendship finally springed in this topic all is well.
Dear Apis,if searching in any web-page about albanian origins(Ill make it simple for you just wiki it) in any other language than serbian I assure you you would learn a lot more.
After you were conquered by the nazis(or italians) you had a puppet governemnt set in and simbolic battalions of your soldiers entered the italian and german armies.If you deny this than you must really be blind since it is common politics and not nuclear sience to understand it.Napoleon had ukrainian,polish and german soldiers attack moscow since these were the countries he had conquered during the way,and if you think that in all of your population there was not one of you supporting nazism,you must really be out of your mind.
As we have already mentioned,or at least matt has,in albania no jews were killed during the war.What matt forgetts though in still accusing Kosovo is that all albanian lands at the time(lands with albanian majority) were united and were one,thus the registering of these jews has been done in all the albanian lands,thus including Kosovo.
I dont know what type of history you guys learnt in school,but one thing is sure,history is a social not an exact sience so Id like to cordially ask you to lower your cockiness in your statements.
As for the genocide I would need further proof please,because it seems it was only serbian historians that recorded these events (very oddly though don't you think).

U never know?

Wanted to delete this page and came upon your post. After making peace and friends with Matt I will no longer post on this forum and argue with anyone – something to do with dignity. Therefore do not address me on this forum again, you will have no answer. And if you like backstubbing go on and do so.

Frankly I don't give a shit that you won't post anymore in this forum,I am not that enthusiast of posting either but it seems I have nothing better to do(very boring winter).I have done that "dignity thing" in a couple of forums myself Apis but I do not tell anyone,I just decide not to post anymore and do it,and not publicize it as if you were breaking our hearts with your absence.
As for the backstabbing bit,I would like to ask you when did I give you the impression that I might offend you during your absence?Have I in any manner offended you while your were here?
I will not backsttab you Apis I have never backsttabed anybody in my life,I am a "to your face" type of guy so you can leave this forum without worries.