As several hundreds of Albanian rebels were evacuated by the NATO from the village they had occupied in June, most of the Slavs living in Macedonia were convinced that the international community supported the KLA. I think their opinion was more close to reality than ever. The crisis in Macedonia is controlled from the outside and Boris Traikovsky is only a puppet in the hands of the Western countries. In fact Macedonia is being thrusted on a policy, which contradicts its national interests. The future doesn’t seem to be that bright either. As certain documents are signed by the parties on a political solution of the conflict, the NATO troops will come to Macedonia to disarm the Albanian rebels. The latter, however, will hand over only a minor symbolic amount of their weapons and start attacking the Macedonians. This in turn will provide favorable conditions for the NATO and the European Union to review their operation in Macedonia and to separate the two conflicting communities. So part of the country will be put under the international protectorate and in fact will be under the influence of the NATO countries. It’s not a secret at all that the oil issue will play a major role in the XXI century. Considering the fact that the Balkans are the gate to the Middle East, i.e. the reach oil fields, the significance of the region can be hardly underestimated. So it is economic interests that the EU and NATO have been pursuing in Kosovo and Macedonia and not establishment of a democratic multinational state.

It needs to be made clear to Macedonia that ethnic cleansing will not be tolerated. If they think NATO will just sit idly by while they expel innocent civilians from their homes, they are sadly mistaken.

Will wrote

Never Again!
September 4 2001 at 3:04 PM will  (no login)
from IP address 211.5.205.206
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After the second world war, we said "Never Again!" which of course means that never again will we stand idly by while genocide is taking place.

We stopped the genocide in that was taking place in Yugoslavia, and now it looks as if it might happen again in Macedonia. It is our duty to make it clear to Macedonia that we will use all available force at our disposal to protect innocent civilians. Macedonia is a small country with a very small military and very old air defence systems. They are very foolish if they think they can win a war against NATO.

------------------------------------------------------
 Hey Will, you kidding or you just got off the spaceship?

The first two Yugoslav secession wars were ordered by Germany, for motives of internal policy. The Bosnia and Kosovo secession wars were ordered by the United States. They were essential for the maintenance of NATO, and for the personal wealth of NATO leaders.

In Macedonia, in 1997, NATO was encouraging Slavs to kill Albanians, while in Kosovo they encouraged Albanians to kill Slavs.
The wars had nothing to do with genocide, there was no genocide going on in Yugoslavia, just ethnic cleansing agaisnt Serbs, which the Serbs were so dumb that they answered in kind.
Genocide took place in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), in East Timor, in Nigeria, and in Guatemala. It took place there with full support of the United States. Even the Khmer Rouge of Pol Pot received full American support from 1980 to 1995.

"The wars had nothing to do with genocide, there was no genocide going on in Yugoslavia, just ethnic cleansing agaisnt Serbs, which the Serbs were so dumb that they answered in kind. "

Talking about perverting the truth. Really Matt, you sound like one desperate Serb apologist. Apologist for their crimes.

Sorry, I don't feel desperate, as yet.

Genocide requires that the killing be so extensive that, if continued, it could lead to the disappearance of the nation involved, The examples I gave above involved the killing of millions, starting of course with the intelligentsia, doctors and lawyers.

The killing of 200,000 out of 600,000 people in Est Timor allowed us to forecast the fading away of the nation if the policy continued. The job was initially given the green light by President Ford and received continuous military and diplomatic support from NATO countries until 1999.
.
Objective of the clerical Ustasha party in 1941 was to eliminate the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia: one third to kill, one third to convert to the Catholic faith, on third to expel to Serbia. At least half a million were killed. The job was not finished, but genocide it was.

Wiping out the Jews and Gypsies of Yugoslavia was genocide. On the other hand, setting a few Jewish stores on fire, killing Jews on national holidays is not genocide. It's a pogrom. It does not happen every day, the Jews keep making babies, and with all luck it will be possible to have pogroms in 100 or 1000 years.

The killing of Serbs in Croatia in 1991, before the fighting started, aimed at scaring them out of town. Cleansing Croatia of Serbs may have been regrettable, but was not genocide.

Before the attack on the Serbs in Sarajevo, before the arrival of Arkan and Seselj, the killing of Serbs in Bosnia started near Bosanski Brod, where five Serb families were massacred. That may have been regrettable, but was not genocide.

As for Kosovo, the Supreme Court in Pristina has yesterday declared that there was no genocide there either.

I think I will agree with Matt on this one. I don't know about the rest of the places you mentioned, but what the Serbs did in Kosovo was not genocide. Genocide like you said means to deliberatly exterminate an entire race. There are still 2 millyun Albanians in Kosovo just like before the war, so there was no genocide. I hope Milosevic is not found guilty of genocide, however he should be held accountable if there is evidence of war crimes. It's not the same as genocide but someone still needs to pay for it. Cheers!

Pedro, maybe it wasn't genocide what happened in Kosovo. But I wouldn't be that sure about 2 mio Albanians left in Kosovo. Quite some of them were killed by Serb forces. Civilians and KLA soldiers.

As for Bosnia (for which Milosevic will also be held responsible) there were around 200.000 people killed. That's an awfull lot of people, and it's pretty close to what we consider genocide and systematic killings on the highest levels. Even if he is not found responsible for genocide, anything less then life in prison for him, would be an insult to all the victims of his policy. It doesn't matter what you call it, fact is he has so much blood on his hands as few people had after WW2. Like it or not.

And nothing is ever going to change that fact, no matter how much some people would like to minimize his responsibility or blame it all on the international community. If Milosevic ever walks free, then there is no justice, as far as ex Yugoslavia is concerned. And if others responsible for war crimes are not brought before justice (not just Serbs).

What the! Where do you get these numbers from? The number of deaths in Bosnia is 78,000, not even close to 200,000. And that 78,000 figure includes those killed by Muslims and Croats, not only those killed by Serbs. The 78,000 figure also includes soldiers, not only civilians.

Of course 78,000 is still a very large number, and even if Milosevic only killed 1000 civilians he should still rot in jail for the rest of his life. But you really needn't make up numbers like that. I know it's a lot easier to make something up than to research it, but if you just throw out ridiculously high numbers like that, people might think you're just talking out your ass. Of course, I would never make that mistake.

Blaz is a good man, he didn't make up that 200,000 figure. He just accepts it. I remember doing the very same thing fifty years ago, in school. I was then the official representative of the U.S. Information Agency. I had read in Corriere della Sera that nuking Japan had been necessary to prevent one million American casualties. It made sense. Iwo Jima ten thousand, Japan one million, right? Well, wasn't I ticked off when I went to the U.S. and found the whole thing was a lie, the poor Japs had been desperately trying to negotiate surrender for a year. I drunk it up when I believed the fake pictures of Serbian death camps. Now I am a little more careful.

When some Albanians gave me a statement about a Macedonian raid by jackbooted thugs against a hospital, since it made no sense, I went to check it out. The doors that supposedly had been "kicked in" showed no damage whatsoever.

[Pervan sent us the following, from from IP address 62.244.59.56]
Bomb blasts have become habitual in Skopje. Many people are prone to think that the Albanians are to blame. In such a barbarous manner the Albanian gunmen try to put pressure upon their “prosperous” compatriots - Albanian market traders and small shops’ owners who are not willing to render financial support to their “fighting brothers”. Pretty familiar style of performance. Almost every day we witness the same in Chechnya where the “insurgents” trace the so-called national traitors and kill them. And the prospects look even more threatening - the experts have come to conclusion that the Chechen hand in organizing the blasts in Macedonian cities is obvious. The Chechens have become skilled in matters like this. The Albanians, neither in Kosovo nor in Macedonia, have not given preference to such methods before. Surely, Islamic extremists are uniting their efforts throughout Europe. Don’t be surprised if tomorrow you get to know about some special Chechen “units” fighting in Macedonia. The Macedonians, by the way, have been repeatedly warned of it from different sources.

  

That's possible, but very unlikely. There is no need to mandate contributions from poor small store owners in Skopje when there is a prosperous Albanian community in every western country, which seems pleased to contribute.
That's like blaming the Slavs for blowing up their own church. Why blame Albanians (or Chechens?!) for blowing up Albanian stores, when there is plenty of willing Maks for that job? And by the way, they are off on their merry way, destroying their country, just to give NATO a happy and profitable playground.

Kemal Urdjut  (no login) wrote
from IP address 62.244.59.56
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Wild outburst of Islamic extremism would have been impossible without huge amounts of oil money streaming from quite a certain place. It must be confessed by the US that one of their principal allies in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, openly supports not only most odious Islamic regimes, like Taliban, but renders assistance to so called national-liberation Islamic movements who are mere terrorists. The explosions in Israel, killing innocents in Kasmir, Macedonia and Chechnya would have been impossible without Saudi money. If necessary they directly train and arm mercenaries forwarding them to definite destinations. The Saudi sheikhs’ interests are well known, and totally lie in the oil sphere which is the main source of their income. It sounds like a paradox but many Moslems today do not consider Saudi Arabia the center of Islam, even in spite of the fact that millions of pilgrims make Hadj to this country every year. People are becoming increasingly aware of the whole truth. Keepping in the background and demonstrating their piety in reality the oil sheikhs are the main provokers of current conflicts in the countries where there is a danger to their strictly practical interests. They don’t imply religion at all.

[Marius Eeden wrote us from IP address 62.244.59.56. (matt)]

The statement by Geoff Hoon, British defense secretary, is of a symptomatic character. Hinting upon the possible British troops presence in Macedonia after the cessation of NATO military operation he made a casual mentioning of British instructors already training Macedonians in fighting terrorists. That is the reason why Brits are intending to prolong their stay in that Balkan country for indefinite period. In this connection I would like to draw your attention to the statement of James Pardew, the US special envoy in Macedonia. He said that some NATO troops may stay on in Macedonia after operation “Essential Harvest” ends. There is a logical connection between these two statements. What made NATO extend its stay though it has no mandate beyond that mission? I’ve managed to fish out something that will make you fall to thinking. Perhaps you remember Russians who nearly drove us crazy with their old wives’ tales about “international Islamic Jihad”, “global terrorist threat” etc. Unfortunately, but they were right. This is how matters stand. A large group of Chechen extremists divided into two or three detachments is expected to penetrate into Macedonia to assist Albanian separatists. They are going to pass through Kosovo. NATO takes it very seriously and is making proper arrangements.

WAR2000   (login WAR2000)
from IP address 64.124.150.149
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USA and France for Yugoslavija, being the first country bombed because they wanted to fuck off crimnals from Islamic UCK. Milosevic the leader of the war against crime is in prison and fucking bastard Hashim Taci is out. Now when the historic moment came to beat the soul out of the fucking Islamic bastards usa IS AGAIN DOING THE ENORMOUS FAULT TO BOMBE aFGANISTAN instead of the Arab bastards in the Golf. USA should bomb Arab countries in the Golf and take the petrole. USA shall declare afetr that in case of one only terrorist attack MEKKA will be reased with earth!

Blaz wrote from 213.250.62.186a
Living proof of hatred and intolerance September 23 2001, 3:04 PM 

Yes, and people like you are proof that Milosevic did succeed with his mentality and policy in the minds of certain people. I am sure he would be very proud of you. He should have finished his job in Bosnia and Kosovo, right? And Mladic, Karadzic, Martic and Arkan should have gotten Nobel prize for peace as well, such patriots and freedom fighters. Those damn Muslims, hey? And God is on your side, right?

People like you make me.......
 
And Matt, isn't it interesting, but there's so much similar posts as this one above on the internet, coming from God loving Christians, that would have no problems with bombing and leveling anything that has to do with Islam to the groud, spewing the worst of hatred. And they vastly outnumber any possible Muslim counterparts on the web. And interestingly enough they find people like Milosevic as their idol, and call Arkan a Serb patriot. First its just words. Some day, they may be among those fundamentalists and terrorists, just of different religion, killing people they don't tolerate. They scare me just as much as Muslim fundamentalists.
 
 Jatin wrote from
206.141.193.249
Untitled September 23 2001, 4:12 PM 

"And they vastly outnumber any possible Muslim counterparts on the web."

That's because the vast majority of all people on the internet live in Christian countries. Most people in countries like Afghanistan, Indonesia, Sudan, etc, have never heard of the internet. If they had internet access, I assure you they would be equally vocal about their opinions, and their opinions would be equally bad or even worse.

It's nothing to worry about.
 
   Blaz wrote from 213.250.62.184
September 23 2001, 5:47 PM 

Yes, I agree Jatin, but I hope you got my main point. Hate (and violence) is not religion dependant. There are fundamentalists in every religion and no one is by default (by his religion or nationality) worse or less (or more) dangerous to the well being of the society. That's what I wanted to say

Cheers
 
  Matt wrote from 151.25.32.16
Romans bearing gifts September 24 2001, 12:46 PM 

 Islamic fundamentalists quietly staid home and bothered no one except their wives, until when American agents arrived and gave them motivation, organization, and the best of weapons.
In Afganistan all they could do was to kill a few school teachers, until when they received missiles from Washington.
Serb and Macedonian Christian fundamentalists like Mr War2000, 10 years ago were neither Christians nor fundamentalists. They went to the football game and did not care about Moslems or Albanians, one way or the other, until when "diplomats" and monsignors from Berlin and Rome arrived bearing deadly gifts, just as they had done in 1941 . Intolerant regimes were imposed on Yugoslavia in the 1980's