This forum is dedicated to the scholarly discussion of the works of Will and Ariel Durant and to matters related to philosophy, history and the social sciences. It is provided as a meeting place for Durant enthusiasts who wish to communicate with serious and productive contributions. We cannot guarantee that your posts will be responded to by the foundation staff. Real names are required on posts. This is a moderated forum and submissions may not appear immediately.

URGENT reference needed.

by Ruth Porter

Please could someone tell me where the following Will Durant quote comes from. Thank you.

"It is a mistake to think that the past is dead. Nothing that has ever happened is quite without influence at this moment. The present is merely the past rolled up and concentrated in this second of time. You, too, are your past; often your face is your autobiography; you are what you are because of what you have been; because of your heredity stretching back into forgotten generations; because of every element of environment that has affected you, every man or woman that has met you, every book that you have read, every experience that you have had; all these are accumulated in your memory, your body, your character, your soul. So with a city, a country, and a race; it is the past, and cannot be understood without it."



Posted on Aug 15, 2006, 12:47 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

The Story of Civilization

by

If anyone has any information on where I can find "The Life of Greece", "Rosseau and Revolution", and "The Age of Napoleon", I would love to have it.
My thanks-

Posted on Jul 12, 2006, 7:32 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

CD of Story of Civilization Series

by Tim Butler

Any updates on when, or if, The Story of Civilization will be available on DVD or CD-Rom? I want to know whether I should buy the old 1992 version, or wait.

Thanks!

Posted on Jul 1, 2006, 5:11 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Such a thing as Eastern philosophy?

by

In the preface to the second edition of Durant's The Story of Philosophy, Durant says, in reference to the book's exposition: "The worst sin of all...was the omission of Chinese and Hindu philosophy." But did Durant really have a consistent, coherent idea of what constitutes philosophy's essence?
I raise this question because Durant seems to take both sides on the question of whether there is such a thing as Eastern philosophy.
On one hand, Our Oriental Heritage warns us to be wary of assumptions that philosophy has always been an exclusively Western phenomenon. Durant essays about how “Historians of philosophy have been wont to begin their story with the Greeks….It may be that we are all mistaken"(193). "Confucius is to be cherished as “the most influential philosopher in history” (658). “As far back as we can pry into the past of China we find philosophers” (650-1). Overall, “philosophy...appears in the Orient a little sooner than in Europe...” (936). In particular, “nowhere else has the lust for philosophy been so strong as in India” (533).
On the other hand, though, Our Oriental Heritage speaks of how “The Upanishads…represent not a consistent system of philosophy, but the opinions, apercus and lessons of many men, in whom philosophy and religion were still fused…” (410). The Hindus, notwithstanding their “love” of logic, “did not exalt logic” (592). Generally, “every art, in India, belonged to religion…, and was the handmaiden of theology” (595). “India drowns philosophy in religion, and fails to emancipate reason from hope” (936). With reference to Confucian thought, Durant even admits that “We shall not find here a system of philosophy¯a consistent structure of logic, metaphysics, ethics and politics dominated by one idea” (666), this “domination by one idea” marking the “essence of philosophy” [667]).
As a former seminarian, what did Durant make of the Scholastic view that “the application of reason to…the data of revelation, is and remains theology: it does not become philosophy”?

Posted on May 12, 2006, 1:58 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Re: Such a thing as Eastern philosophy?

by

I think you've brought up a very relevant and serious question when approaching any study of the thought of Will Durant. Durant was masterful in threading his own views, critical and philosophical, into all of his writings about history, events, people, etc., but it sometimes is difficult to separate Durant the Critic and individual, from Durant the serious, and well-reasoned philosopher (in his ending comments in the Reformation volume concerning Calvinism are extremely harsh; in summing up Calvin, Calvinism, and the historical legacy of Calvinism, Durant pans Calvin's conception of Original Sin as little short of an abomination of the gentle virtue of Christ - I don't have the volume at hand, but if I remember correctly, he insinuates that Calvinism’s doctrine of Original Sin has been one of the worst and most destructive ideas in the history of the West).


I think your point about Durant’s thought regarding Eastern philosophy is difficult to judge, mostly because the amount of good scholarship about Indian and Chinese philosophy during Durant’s college years (and up through …Oriental Heritage) was extremely scarce and often spotty and sketchy, while the scholarship towards the end of his life was fantastic in quality and breadth.

My short answer to your query is yes, I do believe Durant believed in a thing called “Eastern philosophy”, but I do not believe he understood it very well, nor was he aware of a great deal of it.


As a scholar in training in Indian thought (Mahabharata and Ramayana) I’m very interested in this question (Durant was the one who brought me into the fold of learning and academics, and I believe he deserves to be seriously studied) and if you are interested in discussing it further and perhaps attempting to write a small academic paper on the subject, email me, and we can start reading and picking out the good doctors ideas n detail.


All the Best,
L.W. Barron

lbarron@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu


Posted on Jul 28, 2006, 12:15 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

All 11 Volumes for Sale Very Reasonable and in Excellent Condition

by

I am retiring and need to shed a lot of weight including my 11 volumes of THE STORY OF CIVILIZATION
email northcarolinatom@dragonbbs.com

Posted on Apr 30, 2006, 5:42 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Re: All 11 Volumes for Sale Very Reasonable and in Excellent Condition

by

Have you sold your books?

Posted on Jul 5, 2006, 2:41 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

let me know

by

I'm trying to pick up "The Life of the Greeks", "Rosseau and Revolution", and "The Age of Napoleon".. If you could be of any assistance, I would truly appreciate it-
My thanks as a student-
Peter H.

Posted on Jul 12, 2006, 7:37 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Must We fight China?

by

[Copy of email to Fareed Zakaria, in response to his Newsweek article "Adrift in a Turbulent World," April 24, 2005.]

Mr. Zakaria:

I have read your columns in Newsweek for several years and always found you to be informed, erudite and insightful.

After considering your most recent offering entitled, “Adrift in a Turbulent World,” I was struck by your statement, “Beijing is now engaged in its own internal debate over whether a confrontation between China and the United States is inevitable.”

As a student of history, your statement reminded me of a comment made in 1934 about Japan (the then rising Asian power) by Will Durant in “Our Oriental Heritage,” the first book of his monumental series, “The Story of Civilization”:

"Must we fight Japan? Our economic system gives to the investing class so generous a share of the wealth created by science, management and labor that too little is left to the mass of producers to enable them to buy back as much as they produce; a surplus of goods is created which cries out for the conquest of foreign markets as the only alternative to interrupting production—or spreading the power of consumption—at home. But this is even truer of the Japanese economic system than of our own; it too must conquer foreign markets, not only to maintain its centralized wealth, but to secure the fuels and raw materials indispensable to her industries. By the sardonic irony of history that same Japan which America awoke from peaceful agriculture in1853, and prodded into industry and trade, now turns all her power and subtlety to winning by underselling, and to controlling by conquest or diplomacy, precisely those Asiatic markets upon which America has fixed her hopes as potentially the richest outlet for her surplus goods. Usually in history, when two nations have contested for the same markets, the nation that has lost in the economic competition, if it is stronger in resources and armament, has made war upon its enemy."

You will note that Durant’s statement was written seven years before Pearl Harbor. One wonders would the U.S. have joined WW II if Japan had not made war upon us?

Santayana’s well worn aphorism: “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it,” appears to ring true as ever.

Japan in 1934; China in 2006?

Must we fight China? You tell me . . .



Posted on Apr 25, 2006, 12:25 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

1934 Japan, 2034 China

by

The clarity of history depicts precisely the inevitability and consequence of developing China. Just as Rome was dwindled away by an in flux of Germanic tribes, America too is becoming inundated by foreign peoples seeking a better life. Just as the late Roman emperors sought to secure Persia so to we try to secure it for ourselves. Americas world is slipping out of its hands into the jaws of China. A conflict is inevitable as China lusts for limited oil and as they continue to usurp markets with their cheap goods. Corporations will follow history and follow the money into China and India; and America will waste away, becoming a fundamentalist haven for the born again evangelicals expounding their melodies on how the Bible predicted the decline and fall of the American empire and the rise of Satanic China. America will be remembered as merely a brief glimmer in the annuals of civilizations and will be forgotten as many other cultures so eloquently described by Durant and Ariel. I predict the conflict to occur in 2034. By that time American positioning in the world will be significantly reduced and China empire obvious.

Posted on May 30, 2006, 4:08 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

The True Philosopher

by

I've read that Will refers to the true philosopher as having two qualities that being understanding and forgiveness. Would anyone like to elaborate on this? Why these two? Does he himself explain anywhere what he actually means when he says this?

Posted on Apr 22, 2006, 10:25 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Seeking source of quote

by

I am seeking the reference to the following quote by Will Durant:
"Let us remember that India was the motherland of our race, and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages; that she was the mother of our philosophy, other, through the Arabs, of much of our mathematics, mother ...of the ideals embodied in Christianity, mother, through the village community, of self-government and democracy. Mother India is in many ways the mother of us all."
With thanks in advance.
Cam

Posted on Apr 19, 2006, 7:58 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Did Durant ever make that statement?

by

I had asked for the reference for just this quote (allegedly, of Will Durant) in the same forum in June 2005, but had got no response.

It would seem that this is just propaganda used at Websites that support a non-secular Hindu Nation in India....

Posted on Jun 11, 2006, 8:40 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Source of Quote

by

This is how I have seen it cited: Will Durant, The Case for India, 1930 ed., 4

I don't have the Case for India, though, so I am only going by how it has been quoted by some. -Danny

Posted on Jul 10, 2006, 10:15 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

i urgently needexplanation on this statement

by

We are rich in mechanism and poor in purposes

Posted on Apr 9, 2006, 6:28 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

In response

by

I believe it means that whilst we have developed countless distractions, justifications and modern conveniences, we have lost sight of the deepest purposes of our existence, namely realization of our true nature, joy, freedom, bliss. The more 'mechanisms' we invent, the further we seem to be driven from our purpose.

Posted on Apr 19, 2006, 7:55 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Re: i urgently needexplanation on this statement

by Maria Brant

I believe the quote suggests that we have the means to do anything, but our purpose for doing these things is sometimes not in the best judgement.

Posted on Apr 28, 2006, 9:01 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Geological Quote

by

I have often heard the quote attributed to Will Durant 'Civilization exists by geolgic consent, subject to change without notice'. Does anyone know the source of this quotation?
Bill

Posted on Mar 31, 2006, 1:20 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Cited correspondance by Spinoza, where from??

by

Greetings to all
I have with great pleasure read Will Durant's IV chapter in The Story of Philosophy on Spinoza, and I found a most intriguing passage in which he cites a correspondance Spinoza had. I haven't been able to find out which correspondance it is and with whom, but it's of great importance to me to find out because it seems my philosophy teacher at my university has misinterpreted Spinozas philosophy, so I'm hoping someone here can help. This is what the text reads :

A passage from Spinoza’s correspondence may help-us:

“I take a totally different view of God and Nature from that which the later Christians usually entertain, for I hold that God is the immanent, and not the extraneous, cause of all things. I say, All is in God; all lives and moves in God. And this I maintain with the Apostle Paul, and perhaps with every one of the philosophers of antiquity, although in a way other than theirs. I might even venture to say that my view is the same as that entertained by the Hebrews of old, if so much may be inferred from certain traditions, greatly altered or falsified though they be. It is however a complete mistake on the part of those who say that my purpose ... is to show that God and Nature, under which last term they understand a [162] certain mass of corporeal matter, are one and the same. I had no such intention.” 37

Reference 37 points to Epistle 21, but from what I can gather that is in the Bible, so not quite what I'm looking for.

If anyone can help I will be forever grateful, thank you in advance

Best regards
Flemming Pedersen, Student at Southern University of Denmark

Posted on Mar 8, 2006, 11:21 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Bias

by

Well, this is common with individualism and personal interpretation by your profesor. As much as I know of Spinoza or Kant, or Nietzsche and Durant he's twisting their meaning for his personal view on their actual philosophical ideas. Thus you must deny his view and rebute it with your ideas based and not others of the past.

Posted on Mar 25, 2006, 1:53 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

discrepency in Plato descrption in "the story of philosophy"

by

In Durants description of Plato.

He first goes on to say of Plato that "Music and measure lend grace and health to the soul and to the body"

and "through music the soul learns harmony and rythm, and even a disposition for justice" as a contrast to man 'learning' atheletics

That musical training and Atheletic training are both needed for 'ideal' man. Both alone would make man soft and a nation of weight lifters respectively.


But then later in his description...

He says that a criticism of Platos republic is that it represents all science and no art (or individuality). "it exalts order, so dear to the scientific mind, and quite negelects that liberty which is the soul of art"

Would someone help me reconcile Durants two points? THat Plato values music as essential for a 'healthy soul' then would find no place for art because the republic or 'ideal state' would be so orderly (harminous nations contrasted to a nation of individuals) ?

Thank you

-Brian

Posted on Mar 6, 2006, 3:29 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

corn

by

confuse please help! WILL DURANT REFERS TO CORN A NUMBER OF TIMES. I THOUGHT CORN CAME FROM AMERICA.

Posted on Feb 16, 2006, 3:47 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Durant on Bose

by Indranil

Respected members of the forum,

I would be very grateful if someone could let me know if they have come across any reference to Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, (Indian Freedom fighter) in Durant's work, speeched or letters.

My thanks and regards,
Indranil

Posted on Jan 29, 2006, 6:16 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Criticisms

by

I was introduce to Durant’s writing in the early 90's at a Community College … I loved what I read and took it all at face value. I'm curious if anyone can fill me in on current criticisms of Durant philosophy, possibly in regards to let’s say notions of western centrism and such things ... thanks :) Hope my question makes sense.

Posted on Jan 22, 2006, 7:49 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

follow up

by

I apologize, I wasn’t sure where I was going with that thought, but here is a bit of substance on what I was getting at,

Our Oriental Heritage page 459 writes:

“…the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within.”

Q: I would be curious to hear what contemporary historians and philosophers describe Durant’s analysis, and who they are.

Respectfully,
C


Posted on Jan 23, 2006, 10:08 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Entire 11-volume series

by

Hello Foundation,

I'm 36, and am borrowing my mother-in-law's entire 11-volume collection of Durant's History. I'm only in volume 1 and am enthralled.

Since I know she'll want to keep her 11 volumes after I read, what are my options to purchase and revised, new, or old the full 11-volume history. Also, where are the places I could purchase them?

Thanks for any help.

Posted on Dec 21, 2005, 3:57 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Finding Durant

by

You can get some complete sets on eBay, but my recommendation is if you love Durant and have the money that you get it from Easton Press in leather at about $75 a volume. They are well worth it.

Sergei Kochkin, Ph.D.
Riverwoods, IL

Posted on Jan 10, 2006, 12:08 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

love them even more

by

lost my set some years ago, and have been replacing them 1 at a time from goodwill, avg 2.99 per volume. caesar & christ got me through my hurricane katrina exile. i'll get them in leather as soon as i move above sea level!

Posted on Feb 6, 2006, 1:55 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Used Book Stores

by Tony

Hi Steve ! For you and others who may be interested in owning 'The Story Of Civilization' I will suggest simply looking in your telephone directory for the used bookstores in your area and making calls. You may find that this set is not as hard to find as you may think.

I purchased an almost mint condition set complete with perfect jackets from a local bookstore for $100 - 11th volume SIGNED BY WILL DURANT. I also bought another set at an annual bookfair in my city last April for $40. Though not in "mint condition" the second set was still in very good shape (minus jackets). They had about 4 sets at the fair as I recall all going for about the same price and all in pretty good shape. I have also managed to find two copies of 'The Lessons Of History' in "like new" condition in my town. One cost me $6 and another, at the fair, unbelievably, $1. I keep one copy with each set. At another local bookstore I found the 1941 edition of 'The Mansions Of Philosophy' ... I am looking at it now as I type this ... and on the inner leaf, still lightly penciled, is the price I paid of $7.50.

If you are a "reader" and not a "collector" as I am I would suggest just going for the basic set and saving the additional money required for the leather-bound series for other books by Mr. Durant. A less expensive collection of these volumes, even if pieced together singly, is still a great addition to any personal library.

I take volumes of the "bookfair set" to work with me to read before work and at lunch time armed with the confidence that if anything happens to it I still have the better copy back at home. The copies of the "mint condition" set never leave my house. I suppose what I am trying to say is that if you want these books for the practical purpose of reading them you shouldn't have to be afraid of handling them and accidentally damaging or losing them. Will wrote them to be read.

Posted on Feb 11, 2006, 5:46 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Companion books to The Story of Civlization

by

At the urging of a friend, I am about to undertake a complete reading of "The Story of Civilization" series.

Using Google.com, I found my way to this site and have also reviewed some interesting articles and on-line discussions regarding Durant that can be found elsewhere on the Net.

One of my concerns is to find more recently published books and/or series of books that can act as "companions" to Durant's work, both in terms of providing alternate analyses and also to act as supplements where modern research has shown that the "facts" as Durant reports them are now known to be somewhat different.

At present, I am working my way through Dr. Warren Carroll's masterful "History of Christendom" series, and I think this should help balance Durant where his sentiment tends to areligiosity or to outright anti-Catholicism. I am also working through Copleston's monumental "History of Philosophy" series, which efforts will likely provide similar balance.

Specifically, I have read several criticisms of Durant's first "Story" volume, "Our Oriental Heritage," which complain mostly about its being even more outdated than the other volumes in light of modern research. But what more modern book(s) would make a good stand-in and/or supplement to Durant's earlier work? Some book(s) from the Oxford History series?

Thank you for your input and suggestions.

Posted on Dec 19, 2005, 12:48 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Re: Companion books

by

I wanted to add a follow-up to my original message:

I am actually looking forward to reading the "Story of Civilization" series, and apologize if my previous message-request seemed to carry with it a negative view of Durant's work or personality. My intention is simply to develop within my own mind the most balanced and comprehensive understanding of world, particularly Western, history that can be had at the non-specialist level. I am inclined to think that a thorough reading of Durant's work may help in that regard.

Posted on Dec 21, 2005, 2:09 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Companion Books Not Really Necessary

by Tony

Apart from Will Durant's profundity as a historian I think most of his devotees would agree that he was an artist with the pen. Durant's works are very readable and suggest that throughout his writing career both clarity and consideration for the reader's efforts were concomitant in his mind with the task of historical and/or philosophical instruction. Will wrote for 'the rest of us' and made the dusty and often obfuscated paths to knowledge painlessly accessible to the general public.

The only books that could be called "companion books" (albeit loosely) that I can think of are: 'Heros Of History' and 'The Lessons Of History', but really ... any volume of 'The Story Of Civilization' can be opened at any page and read on its own merits - without any accompanying text.

I would suggest simply starting at the beginning with volume 1 (Our Oriental Heritage) and continuing; however, perhaps one could choose a period of history of which one has greater interest as a literary appetizer if-you-will. In either event you are about to embark on a magical journey of discovery piloted by a master writer and storyteller. Bon voyage, and send us a postcard ! ;-)

Posted on Feb 26, 2006, 8:18 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Re: Companion books to The Story of Civlization

by mark

If you use your library's inter-library loan program you can get a book called William James Durant: An Intellectual Biography by Raymond Frey (Edwin Mellon Press; NY 1991)... it is also called Studies in the History of Philosophy Volume 18. This is a very good book which quotes extensively from contemporary reviews of almost everything the Durant's published.

Also if you think of the Story of Civilization as a massive guide to further reading and just follow the endnotes...

Posted on Dec 28, 2005, 1:03 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Durant and Anti-Catholicism

by Will Durant Foundation

Durant was never anti-Catholic. Although he left the seminary when he lost his faith, Durant maintained a tremendous respect and fondness for Catholicism, so much so that his wife Ariel once referred to him as "Catholic from the neck down".

In his book "The Lessons of History", Durant spoke favorably of Catholicism, even predicting (poorly, as we can now see) that Catholicism would become the dominating force in US government by the year 2000. Said Durant: "Just as the defeat of the Moslems at Tours kept France and Spain from replacing the bible with the Koran, so the superior organization, discipline, morality, fidelity, and fertility of Catholics may cancel the Protestant Reformation and the French Enlightenment."

Unlike some other atheists, Durant not only respected other people's need for faith, he argued that religion was necessary for the development and maintenance of a civilized society. It was a key element of his personal philosophy.

Regards,

James Bishop
Will Durant Foundation

Posted on Jan 7, 2006, 10:55 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Re: Companion Volume to Story of Civilization:

by

First, your friend who urged you to read the entire series is a friend, indeed. After doing this twice, may I recommend:

1) get a very good historical atlas (if they ever modify the Sacred Volumes I hope it would be to include excellent maps)...and

2) find a comprehensive textbook on western civilization since Waterloo. I used Vol. 2 of Western Civilization by Langor - an old college text. For better US history see Paul Johnson's History of the American People.

...I envy you your journey.

Posted on Jul 19, 2006, 7:54 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

A dedication

by

What Will Durant's connection to L. Ron Hubbard? His book "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health" is dedicated to Will Durant.

Posted on Dec 2, 2005, 10:42 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Durant and usary

by

I remember reading in Durant's books that the history or usary ev olved when the Christians asked the Jews to be money lenders in order to reduce the outrageous interest rates that fellow Christian charged.

Can some please quote the relevant passages?


Thanks,

stU



Posted on Nov 14, 2005, 11:25 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Re: Durant and usary

by Bar~Elohim

Since the Jews were moneylenders before there were Christians, the quote is erred.

Posted on Dec 29, 2005, 12:06 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

100 Best Books for an Education

by


Has anyone read all of these? I'm finding that a lot are out of print. dos anyone know of an updated version?

Thanks in advance.

Philip

Posted on Nov 8, 2005, 12:33 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

No luck

by Azur

I have encountered the same problem with some of the books. Some minor luck on ebay you might want to try that. For the record the list of books is posted here:

http://www.pushby.com/friends/jesse/archives/durantlist.html

Posted on Nov 26, 2005, 10:14 PM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Getting titles

by


Thanks, I'll try eBay. Project Gutenberg (online) has thrown up a few also.

Best regards

Philip

Posted on Feb 21, 2006, 11:06 AM

Respond to this message

Return to Index

Create your own forum at Network54
 Copyright © 1999-2010 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement  

Will Durant Online