and of all things, it's a daisy hollow point, right from the high-precision section of wal*mart.

now that i've straightened out the variables in ME, i spent some time going through the pellet closet tonight, three five-shot groups with each at a 10yd target

and unfortunately, i found one equally HORRIBLE for my particular gun. the crosman premier roundnose heavy 10.5

i think i found the reason in a james house book (btw, check ebay some guy has 3 new copies of his co2 airgun book for $1 + $3.99 shipping).

the book has tables of popular pellet dimensions (head diameter, length, and skirt diameter) and crosman premier pellets have a very narrow skirt compared to almost all the others. apparently, my gun does NOT like pellets with narrow skirts, or maybe it just does not like crossman heavies.

too bad, i just bought 3 tins of them (500 each). maybe they'll shoot in my 1000x break-barrel once i recover from shoulder surgery. maybe the PT people will assign me break-barrel shooting as rehab.

Funny, I was doing the same with my QB78D today and even more interesting: I had exactly the same result with the Crosman round nosed! I tried Hobby,Beeman Bearcub, the CP round nosed and you might laugh, but some of the Chinese Peak round-nosed pellets I ordered from Archer's a couple of weeks ago.

I am not a very good shooter, so I didn't get any one holers or anything spectacular like that at all. All the groups are ten shots and I averaged over 3 groups for each pellet. I don't have callipers, so the numbers are pretty rough.Honestly my skills aren't at a level where calliper level measurement is necessary.

On an average the Hobby's were about 1/4''(c-t-c) at 10 yards, The Peak was actually pretty good: averaging slightly above 1/4" at 10 yards. A couple of close fliers that opened the average group size to about 5/8'' were entirely my fault... I could call the shots were off as soon as I fired, so the pellets are probably not to blame. The Beeman Bearcub were the best-- they grouped slightly less than 1/4"(but that could be because I had settled into the prone position by then). I was expecting the CP's would do great, but they didn't at all. It suddenly opened up to about 1/2" by the fifth shot and I thought I was tired; so packed up for the day. But now it seems that even my 78D doesn't like the CP round noses.

I shall try again in the next couple of days and try a few more RWS ones and CP hollowpoints. Don't have any CPL or CPH right now(Pyramyd was out of them when I got the last batch). But I am going to Walmart to get the Daisies-- if they work, then wonderful! I plan to move out by 10 yards out to 40(the longest I can get in my backyard) and find the most accurate pellet.

The surprise was the Peak pellets that Stephen Archer has; they're probably not the most accurate, but contrary to what I have read about Chinese pellets, they're pretty damned good upto 25 yards; the farthest I have shot with the Peaks. I have got quite a few 1/2"-.6" groups with them and rarely ever anything above 1'', and as I said earlier, I am not a good shooter-- so most of you would probably get way better groups. I think I am going to use them for my practice sessions--unless of course the Daisies turn out to be more accurate!

long story. first, before i improved my own shooting, i tried
gamo hunter (good)
gamo magnum (no good)
and 2 other gamos that come in a sample pack (no good)
and beeman hollow pt (same as tech force hollow pt)(good)
daisy precision wadcutters (ok)
daisy hollow pt (ok)
crossman wadcutters (walmart) (ok)
crossman hollow pt (walmart) (ok)

after i improved my shooting, i added 'the edge' from archer, (wadcutters) and they were as good as any others, but i had not tried the daisies again because i thought they were ho-hum because of their weight variation.

last night, after seeing 2 inch groups at 10 yds with the 10.5grain crossman precision, i decided to try all my pellets again, three five-shot groups with each.

the daisy precision wadcutters are the best (for me) and the edge from archer are 2nd best (for me). then all the others (except the flyaway crosman 10.5 round nose) were roughly the same.

btw, almost all of the above pellets are made in china except maybe gamo (not sure)

in general, all the pellets were ho hum, and i had sorted the daisies by weight (they varied a lot, from 7.2grains to 7.8 grains, which i thought was an issue.

it wasn't

reading james house's chart, the gamo hunter and the daisies have wider skirts (about .178, i think) where the crossman premiers have the narrowest skirt in the business (around .171)

i particularly got the heavy crossman premier round nose because i'm gonna shoot a silhouette tournament august 1 if i am adequately recovered from my upcoming rotator cuff surgery (i've had it before, so no surprises there).

the edge from archer are generally good, but i believe i have a barrel that's looser than normal (as evidenced by the great performance of the pellets with wider skirts).

sooo, if i find a willing machinist to drill me a barrel squasher (or find a drill bit the precise diameter of my barrel) i'm gonna do a choke job.

i know what i'm about to say borders on blasphemy, but i'm gonna squash some of my pellets (from nose to tail) with my very cheap chinese micrometer and see if they get wider at the skirt. if they do, i'll have a new winter hobby. i wonder at what point this becomes lunacy.

a person has to have a holy grail to search for; otherwise there's no point in getting up each day.

-bp

i didnt think daisy made a hp. wc,pointed and round was all ive seen.

grouped good with my QB78d 22 when it was shooting in the mid to low 600 and now that it's a lot hotter in my place she shoots low 700 and now likes CPHP 14.3. Didn't Daisy made HP must be new item, can you show pic or link on your daisy hp find..

They do have hollow points! In both .177 & .22 cal. May have to go to Wally World to see if they have them. Might be worth a try, especially for the price.
Here's the link:

http://daisy.com/shopping/customer/home.php?cat=254

Just got back. Tried both local Wally's and K-Mart. No Daisy hollow points. Bummer! Would like to have tried them.

"You've come far, pilgrim."------"Feels like far."
"Were it worth the trouble?"----"Ah, what trouble?"

..it really is trying to tell you what it likes and what it doesn't like. No matter how good the reputation or how well one pellet shoots for some other guy's barrel, feed your barrel what it wants.

So far, most of my air rifles like the RWS Hobbys.A couple like the Crosman Premier wadcutters.One likes Crosman Premier Hollow Points.I've been trying some Beeman #1230 (Chinese) hollow points, and they shoot pretty good in some guns.I tried them because they look just like the Beeman Silver Bears only appear to be coated, and they are cheap. I've had some guns that shot the Silver Bears really well.

jon

however, getting that chart in the james house books (it's from a 2003 copyright and not all-inclusive) will demonstrate a lot of the 'why' when you find what works for your gun. or you can mic them or measure them with a caliper. or 'slug' the barrel and measure the lands and grooves if you're young enough to be able to see them.

i'd think that slugging the barrel with various pellets would give a hint of what's getting the rifling cut into it the way it should (if anyone knows exactly how it 'should').

i think i should get the book down here by the computer and enter some of the skirt widths for the various pellets so folks have a reference.

house's co2 book is available (new, 3 copies) for $1 plus $3.99 shipping on ebay by a used bookseller. search 'book co2 james e. house'

-bp

..and try everything, but come back for 2nds for the ones it likes".

This is about as good as I can do with a little 4X and a rickety rest...but it's evidnet that the cheap Gamo match is doing quite well in this barrel.
[IMG][/IMG]

Bill, head diameter is the real determining factor in accuracy not skirt diameter. Skirt thickness will determine seal, hence velocity and bc but has darn little effect on accuracy. 10 yards is much too close a distance for determining overall accuracy. Since you're shooting silhouette I'd test your pellets at 45 yards from some form of cushioned rest if it's a springer.

I've given up on the cheap pellets. Get JSB's, Beeman FTS or Crosman Premier by the sleeve and their price including shipping is competitive with the Walmart pellets. And they will certainly out perform any of the pellets from Walmart at 45 yards.

I never understand the 'I won't pay shipping and handling' mentality concerning pellets. You'll spend gas and time going there to pay for pellets that are inferior? I own 5 Chinese spring guns. None of them shoot pellets from Walmart with any form of acceptable accuracy past 30 yards. However they'll shoot any of the quality pellets I mentioned with darn good accuracy out to 40 yards. My SM-1000(B-21 prototype) will shoot Beeman Kodiaks at sub 1" at 50 yards from the FT shooting position with iron sights! The only cheap pellets that I've seen shoot worth a darn were the Green labeled Chinese Match pellets that weighed 8.8-9.0 grains. I had two tins of round nosed and other than the weight, the were identical to JSB Exact 4.51 pellets. I don't know if they're still imported but they really performed as good as JSB Exacts 8.4 and Crosman Premier 7.9 in just about every gun I tested them in.

what you say makes sense. now i've got even more to learn, (dammit!). good info tho

the 'edge' from archer did really well on a regulation airgun ram at 40 yards, i just want something with more weight behind it. can't shoot the springer at that tourney, i'll be coming off rotator cuff surgery so it's airgun or nothing.

-bp