Hi guys. I have a problem with my Innova cloone.

I've got one. Haven't had any problems with mine.

Hi.When i pump the first stroke, i can hear the air leaking throu the barrel. Sometimes even the second stroke leak. It sounds like the valve isnt closed.I did look at a shematic on the gun, and it looks like it has a hammer and hammer spring, just as a Crosman 1377. But i wonder, you dont have to cock the gun, just pump and fire. Do you know how the trigger and valve system is built?

You may have to chronograph it to see if it is shooting to specifications.

Yes i can do that,but it dont feels right, as sometimes even the second stroke leaks air. I am thinking to take the valve apart, and put in some harder spring to close the valve harder. Thanks Tommy.

you could try changing the spring but first look to see if there's a relief hole drilled in the face of the valve. If so, you can tap it and insert a grub screw or see if you can get that half of the valve or a whole assy from TW Chambers. The Puma isn't set-up like a Crosman 1377 different kind of system. If air is leaking from the barrel then perhaps your right and it's the spring. You could also contact Paul Self of Raineair, he may have some advice on what to do.

Ok. Thanks. Its not so fun, the gun is brand new, and its so fun to shoot with.I did take it apart and put in a little lomger spring, but it leak more. Shall take it apart tonigt and put in a shorter spring and se.Its a verry strange kind of valve system. Not as the Daisy 880 either Thanks Tommy.

If the gun won't seal on the first pump or two, it's likely the valve face is out of square to the valve stem(sharp ACE type), or the lubes are too stiff (sharp Inova, crosman 1400 style)

Ok. I did take the valve out of the tube, but i think it was loctited so i didnt take it apart. But i have to take it apart to fix this, or? I have thinking about how the valve opens when i pull the trigger? Cause there is no hammer.

or of an exploded diagram(maybe one came with the gun?)

You could also look at the crosman diagrams, and see if the 140 or 1400 valves look like what you have.

look like a 1400 valve.A little hard to se.

in the cup, where it slides over the nipple on the valve body.The quad ring needs a light oil for lube, the nipple needs to be smooth and clean(no old sticky oil turned to varnish) and the quad ring needs to be fresh and flexible.

The o-ring on the outside of the cup only seals during the blow down into the barrel...but if it sticks, the valve wont close and seal...so it needs to be clean, correctly sized, and lubed with a light oil.The bushing it slides in also needs to be smooth and bur free.

These types of issues are part of why the blow off type valve is rarely used any more...the common poppet type is more reliable and more easily fixed.

Hope this helps..good luck

Thanks alot. I wonder, does the valve close, when you pump the first stroke?

Hi. Now i find whats wrong. Nothing with the valve. Its the trigger that dont go back all the way, after fire. I think i have to deburr some in the triggerhouse. I didnt think about that, i allways go for the worst. Thanks for the help- Tommy.

the real issue when you are looking somewhere else..that happens to me a lot.

...first, without any air in it, squeeze trigger fully and let go letting it fly open. This will reset the sliding block that slides up to allow the valve pin to punch through. The sliding block has a hole in it. When the trigger is depressed to fire, the block slides in to position allowing the exhaust pin a place to pop in to.

Second thing, your trigger pull is set to low - this is common in these rifles. There is a silver slotted screw durectly under the trigger itself. If you tighten it, the shorter the trigger pull. If you loosen it, the the longer the pull. The srew has a tendency to move over time. The trigger pull adjustment not only changes the trigger position, it also changes the relative postion of the sliding block.

If you have taken the gun apart, it is VERY important to install the valve pin correctly, rubber buffer and aluminum buffer housing, and to thread the end cap on the correct way. The spring returns the valve pin to normal position and all this will sandwich together being held in place by the threaded plug.

I own one and love it. However, the Chinese use cheap-a$$ plastic instead of good quality composite materials in them. The breech housing WILL crack eventually on the lower end. Junk plastic, very ashamed. Sharp used high quality ABS. IF you ever get a chance to hold and feel the original, you will quickly see what I mean.

Also, the energy limited versions. The valve and pump rod are put in equilibrium with one another, then the screws are made "tamper resistant" that hold the gun together. On the gun I rebuilt for a guy to make it capable of all umph possible (made to U.S. specs) the pump rod was extended, thats all.

The piston overall length in the limited version I rebuilt was set far short of the valve face. this means that once the valve is pumped to a certain level it cannot hold any more air as the pressure in the head space (pump cup to valve face) is equal to the valve pressure. Without the piston able to compress to the max point (meeting the valve) the valve accepts no more air.

Did you notice that the pump arm sometimes open on its own when fired? The above paragraph is why.

"Well, I thought it was a rabbit but it turned out to be Bear Grylls in a rabbit hide."

Hi. I did take it apart yesterday, and i did se the sliding block inside the breech. It seems like the exhaust pin is a little short, so it dont contact against the sliding block.So when i pump, the exhaust pin pop out and air escape. What do you think? A little dot with the MIG weld,at the end of the exhaust pin. About 1 mm, and grind flat. Tommy.

...try turning it around. One side is shorter than the other. I'd have to double check, but the end that has a taper at the end of the pin goes in the valve.

Here is a scematic of the Sharp Innova - the same gun. In fact, the [real] original one. Schematic ref. is the same. Notice the valve pin placement. The shorter end goes in the valve.

http://www.gunspares.co.uk/showcatimage.asp?id=24488

"Well, I thought it was a rabbit but it turned out to be Bear Grylls in a rabbit hide."

Hi. The taper end goes in to the valve on my. But what i mean, is if the exhaust pin dont rest on the sliding block when start pmping, the valve goes open, right?

If not, and you do hear an initial hiss from a pump or two, the hiss should continue due to the design nature of the gun. If one or two pumps leak out, all should leak out. The valve is a dump valve and once dumping occurs, it occurs.

The pin, if too short can be remade, but I cannot see why it would be too short. Then again, it is made in China. Here's what I'd do: Make a new pin from some stainless or the likes. If you do not have a lathe or access to one, this is a sure method: Where the ring is at on the pin (spring retainer), on the new steel rod you can groove it to accept a c-clip. The c-clip will then act as the spring reatiner. This can be done for a few dollars. To cut the groove in the new pin, chuck the pin in a drill and use a dremel tool with cutting disc to cut the groove while the drill is spinning.

If this does not work, the valve seal that acts on the pin is bad. You will need to take the valve apart. So you do not chew up the brass: Buy some rubber hose that fits snug over the valve. Cut two lengths and secure them with hose clamps (the screw-type) to the valve sections. Now unscrew the dude with channel lock pliers.

"Well, I thought it was a rabbit but it turned out to be Bear Grylls in a rabbit hide."

Thanks for the tips. I do have a little bench lathe. I try to make a new longer exhaust pin. Let you know how it went. Tommy.

Hi Phil. When i look inside the breech, i can se the sliding block in there. I se about half the hole in the block. Shall it be so? Or should it be complete closed? Tommy.

The trigger adjustment screw mentioned earlier controls the position of that sliding block up and down, the block should be brass. One thing to check is whether or not the block is installed correctly. If memory serves, the hole in the block is offset from center, I think. You can try taking it out and flipping 180 degrees (put the bottom side on top). First, The best way to start is to completely loosen the trigger adjustment screw when the gun is together. This will put the block in the fully closed position and create a looong trigger pull. If that doesn't work, flip the block.

In fact, with the pump tube removed from the breech housing, look into the pump tube hole and then adjust the trigger while looking. You should see the brass sliding block moving (the trigger moves too so try not to obstruct trigger movement with your finger or whatever, as this will give a false reading). You will always see the sliding block hole. What is important is to make sure no part of the block hole is in plane with the center of the tube hole, or the valve pin. If any part of the hole radius is in plane, this casuses premature bleed-off of the valve.

"Well, I thought it was a rabbit but it turned out to be Bear Grylls in a rabbit hide."

Thanks Phil. There must be something wrong with the sliding block or the trigger, If i press the trigger hard forward against the muzzle, then i can pump without any leak. If i adjust the trigger screw all the way out, the sliding block hole is still half open. So there must be something that stops the block from completely close. If i remove the pin,that hold the trigger in the breechhouse, is there any spring that would be flying around ? What did you say, shall i rotate the block 180 deg? I realy like the gun, so it would be fun, if i can fix it. Tommy.

...I would take it all apart and reinstall the components. The sliding block has a spring, and the trigger has a spring. Other than that, the unit is very easy to tear down. Yeah, you may check the sliding block... Let me check mine fist...

"Well, I thought it was a rabbit but it turned out to be Bear Grylls in a rabbit hide."

Ok, thanks. Phil.Regards Tommy.

...there are two springs that matter, The third spring is directly under the trigger adjustment screw alone. There is a spring under the trigger, and a spring under the sliding block. I also realize that the brass block has a hole in it to recess the spring. In front of that there should be an "L" shapped steel guide. This guide is what allows the valve pin to pop. There are only two pins to tap out of the trigger housing.

IMPORTANT NOTE

There is a little black round piece directly under the trigger adjustment pot that has two tabs on it and a squared top, and a spring under it. If you remove the trigger and this pieces falls out, it has been installed incorrectly! The piece drops in place after the trigger has been installed. order of assembly:
1. brass block
2. block spring
3. block "L" guide (this part actually does the "sliding" to allow firing (sorry about that!).
4. trigger (adjustment screw, unscrewed completely)
5. spring (part under round black piece)
6. little round black piece (this piece drops in, and once in it will need to turn 90 degress to lock in place; the tabs on it lock against a female space provided for it). If not in properly, there will appear to be no avail. trigger adjustment and the gun may not hold a charge.

Hey, if you need walked through this, give me a call if you are in the States: Phil, (812) 327-7646

"Well, I thought it was a rabbit but it turned out to be Bear Grylls in a rabbit hide."

Thanks Phil, now i have something to to this night. Tommy.