Hi Everyone,

After years of problems I was flabbergasted by, I now know what has been going on.... My wife has Borderline Personality Disorder, doesn't know it, and we have been in marriage counseling off and on for years now (over a year most recently) and I can't seem to break through her emotional walls anymore.

We have a wonderful little 2-1/2 year old girl, who is the light of my life. I am afraid she is now going to divorce me, after not being there for ME during a family crisis. This is without a doubt the hardest time in my life.

Ugh.


Bernie

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

I am not a mental health professional, but I do have some experience (I am an ER nurse) with mental illness. While I do not know the details of your situation, and wouldn't want to assume anything, I would like to help.


Here are a few links

http://allpsych.com/disorders/personality/borderline.html
Borderline Personality Disorder

http://www.bpdcentral.com/index.php
BPD Central - borderline personality disorder - books, cds, info, support, resources, links (I don't know the reliability of this one)

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/borderline.html
Psychology Today's Diagnosis Dictionary: Borderline Personality Disorder

I really like this article...you might find it useful
http://www.toddlertime.com/dx/borderline/bpd-spouse.htm
Disclosing Borderline Personality Disorder to an Undiagnosed Spouse

This is the diagnostic criteria from the DSM IV tr
http://psyweb.com/Mdisord/jsp/bopd.jsp
Borderline Personality Disorder

http://www.borderlinedisorders.com/public.htm
Personality Disorders Institute, borderline personality disorders, psychotherapy, psychiatry, mental health, public

I hope you find some of these helpful.
Brandi


_____________________________________________

I also joined a few Yahoo groups who support spouses of BP people.

THanks so much for your help!!

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

Firstly, I have worked with many with BPD and have had quite a few unpleasant experiences with BPD in my personal life. Read a little more here.

To be married to someone with this personality disorder must be really difficult. How are you handling all of this? What kind of support do you have?



-Steve

"I always wonder what folks in frozen lands will think when they discover that hell is full of grass yards that need mowing every day and heaven is a blazing desert." - Joel Smith

- -

I found out last Wednesday night that during some alone-time I provided for my
wife )by taking the baby out for the day), she busted into my Yahoo mail and READ my
incoming and outgoing messages while I wasn't home!!!! Nice way to show her appreciation eh?

What feels MUCH worse is that she also COPIED the emails into some other text
files on our computer, and then put those files in the trash (maybe to print them before
trashing them?)

The truly disturbing part is that she never told me (48 hrs later) that she had
read and found these emails that upset her. She read, and copied them, and I found out
BY MISTAKE while checking what was about to be trashed in my computer!!! For some
reason, my heart was thumping when I opened one and saw my own writing!!!!

Plus, now she knows about the BPD thing (previously not divulged to her). UGH.

I am very proud of how I handled it, as I confronted her without yelling,
but was firm and unrelenting in my point that I was violated, and she had NO RIGHT
to bemad.

I am so upset now, as reality is hitting me again that this isn't looking good.

She has shut me out emotionally and physically for almost two months now. The
hurt iswearing me down. Last week I was much stronger.



Bernie


IT'S ME, BERNIE!

.

-Steve

"I always wonder what folks in frozen lands will think when they discover that hell is full of grass yards that need mowing every day and heaven is a blazing desert." - Joel Smith

- -

Sure sorry to see this happened. Hang in there.

I'm sorry your trust was violated like that. I hope you are able to stay strong for yours and your baby's sake. It must be very hard.

Amy

Let me also tell you that you need to hear some info as well that isn't sugar-coated. To be honest, Bernie, it sounds as though this woman is hell-bent on being completely relationally destructive. She refuses to get help for her issues on a deeper level and is deflecting intervention attempts during couple's sessions. It has also been my experience (I'm a therapist like Steve...we went to school together) that borderlines who do not receive intensive individual treatment prior to couples counseling don't fare well. They must do their individual work first and take responsibility for their problematic behaviors and out-of-control emotions.

Your wife has not done this and she is refusing introspective work. She is also continuing to be explosive in your marriage and is denying you intimate relationship (not just sexually). Bernie, this is not a person that you can work with. Unless she does a 180 and immediately charts a new course this does not look good for you. Relationships do not last when one partner is this damaging to the other. She is the primary aggressor here and you need to take some steps to protect yourself.

If this course does not change, you will be fighting for custody of your daughter. While you are in the house and have access to information you need to be gathering as much as you can. Borderlines are hell to deal with in court (My husband and I are currently battling his BPD ex for full custody of his daughter. There has been much written as to how a borderline manipulates judges, lawyers and the court process. You have access to e-mails, financial records and have the ability to gather evidence. Bernie, I told you I would not sugar coat this message so here goes. Bernie, cover your ass. I realize you are trying to save your marriage, but this woman is taking you down like the Titanic. Be alert. Utilize the time you have. If she is not responding to your advances to fix the relationship then you MUST rechannel your energy into fighting for your daughter. I realize it hurts. Use this pain as energy to do what you need to do right now.

Borderlines have a notorious track record of not changing. Don't try to be the savior. You don't have that power and it is not your job to fix or manage your wife. Be alert, Berie. Buy 3 ring binders and a 3 hole punch and grab as much as you can. You will need it to help your daughter.

I bitch and complain about my situation frequently but I also acknowledge the fact that it is somewhat of my own making. I spent far too many years trying to negotiate with, change, or work around my ex-husband and his BPD.

And talk about manipulation. There were times he had me believing I was the crazy one. Documentation is your only defense.

I feel for you Bernie. And as much as it hurts to think about splitting up, if she is as bad as you describe, then the relief at not having to deal with that situation will far outweigh any other concerns. And if you feel as bad as you seem to, how do you expect to be the best dad possible for that little girl?

Good luck and know my prayers are with you.

m

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

First, if this is really going to happen, go find an attorney. If you don't know one, go to the local bar association and ask for a referral. Be comfortable with who you hire. Spill your guts. They will be able to tell you what you need specifically for your area.

But you can start with basics, like financial information; Credit card statements, bank statements, mortgage information, insurance information, tax forms, retirement and investment account information...

Then anything else that might show her personality, motives, or ability to care for your daughter. Any emails she might have sent talking about this stuff, letters or notes she might have written (my ex was great at leaving me notes on the kitchen counter detailing MY shortcomings). The financial information might also help you here. It might show when, where and how she spent money and what she purchased or if large sums of cash went missing.

I am so sorry this is happening to you. It sucks. It hurts. It feels like nothing will be normal ever again. You'll miss the baby horribly when she's gone and wonder how you can possibly take care of her alone when she's home. But people will care and people will help. And you will be fine.

Been there, done that and survived. Feel free to email me if you want to. If not, good luck to you and I'll keep you and your daughter in my prayers.

I really don't know what to say, but I just wanted to show you some support.
Hang in there, Bernie!

-<nerdo>-

what kind of evidence and paperwork do you mean?

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

If she is dead set on divorce, then you will immediately need to start thinking about custody arrangements. Here is the deal with that. It is a well-documented and researched fact that borderline women raise borderline children. Kids are little parrots and imitate everything they see. That is part of the way the human brain intakes information and how a person learns to act. Daughers mimick their moms and gain important social, emotional and behavioral cues that way. You do not want your daughter learning how to manipulate, blame and act out emotionally as your wife does. Bernie, you are going to need to fight for as much custody time with your daughter as you possibly can. She is going to need you deeply in the future if she is going to have a fighting chance at being emotionally healthy and stable as an adult.

I would really recommend that you begin to research father's rights in your state and see what way the courts are deciding (either in favor of father's or not). In Missouri when 2 deemed sane parents are battling for custody, the mother gains sole legal custody 90 percent of the time. In Illinois the mother gains custody at a rate of 60 percent. In California it is a 50/50 split. If your state gives dads a fair shake then that will give you a clue as to what type of attorney to hire. If dads get a raw deal, then you will need an attorney who is very savvy with father's rights. Missouri is horrible in regards to father's rights. My eyes have been opened to this fact in dealing with some of my clients as well as in my husband's case. We called around and got referrals on lawyers and ended up hiring the best of the best and so far, so good.

Here is a list of some of the documentation that you will need to gather now. You are trying to prove that you are a fit father and will be a better caretaker for your daughter.
1. financial records/bank statements (if your wife makes more $, then ask for child support...don't be prideful about it)
2. documentation of her mental issues (receipts from counseling sessions, prescription bottles of anti-depressants or other, prescription receipts)
3. photographic evidence of damage to the house along with dates of any incidents (marked walls, door frames, busted windows) goes a long in proving that she is unsafe to caretake a child.
4. child's health records
5. receipts from things that you have bought or done to care for your child
6. notes, cards or letters to you which show mood swings or unstable emotional health
7. photos of you only with your daughter to put into a collage or album to show the relationship that you have with her
8. credit card bills, phone bills, or any other documentation which show any out of control spending on her part
9. any evidece which points to her out of control behavior
10. keep a notebook of incidents which show any poor parenting choices on her part. Handwrite the incidents and mark them with time and date.

This is more than enough to get you started. You really need to get an attorney right away if divorce is the avenue that she is pursuing. Bernie, again I am truly sorry. Just know that even in the midst of your pain this is a critical window of time here wherein you can gather this information to have on hand when you will go to battle for your daughter.

I havea very good friend in SC that has been dealing with this very issue for for 10 years now. One of the things that I've noticed about him is that the longer he's taken the battering (the same type of battering I imagine you are taking) the more compartmentalized he becomes from much of the rest of the world...including his kids.

Just be sure you are able to get some relief (mental relaxation) for yourself so that you don't become distant from everyone without even knowing it's happening.

All the best to you in this.

How are things going, Bernie?

Hey Everyone,

Quick update...

I did collect many important documents.

I have still been emotionally shut out, and there are still things happening that can only be taken as emotionally hurtful.

I believe I am only staying at this point until I am convinced which way she is going as regards dealing with her BPD or not.

Then I will have to wait to see what type of progress she makes. One thing in our favor is that she does not have as serious a case as could be possible.

I just found out tonight (from her) that we received an invitation by neighbors to a party on Saturday afternoon. She supposedly forgot to tell me about it till tonight (just late enough to probably not find a babysitter) ... She also, coincidentally was not sure she wanted to be there with me!!!! THis eff'ing hurt, and pissed me off. If she had approached me and we discussed it together, I MIGHT not be as hurt. But she did this, as usual, without considering me or my feelings.

I told her tonight that I am staying because I don't want us to lose for STUPID B___S___ reasons, or for something that we could deal with together (like her BPD). But I also told her that I am not sure right now how much SH__ I believe I should eat on the way while trying to keep my family together. All said with a straight delivery- not yelling.

Sick or not, I right now feel like she is being a stupid a__ for throwing away a serious family, and blowing the lives of THREE people for some stupid BS that she has chosen to focus on and ignoring all the big important things that she has that are great.

I am trying very hard not to let me ego make decisions for me... Which would be to tell her the hell off for disrespecting and not appreciating me. I also don't want to do anything out of some sense of relief, which may only be temporary and impulsive.

But I have been quite good at setting and enforcing my new limits. That has felt empowering, and helps me feel more centered than any similar time in the past, and this time I am married with a child (so there is a lot more at stake!!)


That is all I can think of right now. I do not know what is going to happen. I can't believe she pulled all this before the Christmas!!



Bernie

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

My ex pulled his crap on our son's second birthday. He threw it all away just before the end of my second to last semester in law school - just a few weeks before finals. That semester sucked and cost me a place in the top 10% by one spot.

I am sorry this is so hurtful for you. I am glad you are setting boundaries and limits. Be sure to stick to them.

I'd give you a hug if I could reach.

h

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

Well Folks,

This is now my first action, for the entire length of my marriage, toward divorce.
I have been VERY sad about this today, but I am now (evening) feeling OK. I just can't believe it is happening.

She has been emotionally hurtful, self absorbed, and plain thoughtless. Each conversation we have had this week has shown her to respect FEWER AND FEWER of my wishes/needs for the plan for us work things out, separation or not.

I have been telling her that if I am not shown good reasons/plan/actions toward this working FOR US, that "trial separation" is not in the cards for us... EIther working at things, or Divorce. Trial separation benefits her by giving her room to not have to contend equally to me, and also know I am not GONE yet.
Trial separation does nothing for me but leave me in Limbo, unless she showed care, consideration, and a plan of some kind to keep working.

Well, I will get none of those things, and that idea is coming more apparent today than ever, after hearing the same crap all week.

So, I had to make one of the hardest decisions of my marriage. I have officially moved out of our bedroom to our guestroom down the hall.
I told her tonight (remarkably without sparks either way) that since every time we talk, fewer and fewer of my separation needs are being acknowledged, I don't see why I should sleep there.

I have been hurting tremendously today, since a new wave of reality has come over me. But I also have supportive folks reminding me of all the crap I am leaving behind as well. NOONE is holding me back. Not even HER friends. Hmm. I guess that tells me something.

Doing Ok right now,


Bernie


IT'S ME, BERNIE!

I'm sorry to hear about this, but I just want you to know I'm here for ya buddy.

(((hugs)))

Call if you need to vent!



"Scott is a stupid word."
"Pete is my anti-drug."
"Scott reminds me of a really bad rapper."

Kansas Kelly

I'm glad you are getting lots of support; that's good. I'm sorry you're hurting though and I wish you the best.

Amy

I don't think she gets that I'm on my way out, not for a "trial"...

I am now in the process of accepting that she is not going to be considerate of what I would need to to bother with a trial separation, or even stay with her at all. At this point, she has dragged the relationship into the dirt. I can't have this happen again. There has been too great a cost to our family as a whole, and to me. If she won't do the proper counseling and address the Borderline Personality Disorder, there is no hope.

That is what has brought me to the point we are now. Heartbreaking, and also shocking that she does not (at least yet) seem very phased by it. I am not sure if I should bring up the topic just to make sure that know's what I am doing right away to be fair to her, or wait a few weeks to give it a break?


Bernie

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

Give that baby girl a big hug and think about what's best for her.

It sucks, its hard, it hurts and right around the holidays doesn't make it any easier. I think you've already been fair to your wife. You explained your position. You've given her chances. You've done what you can do. Don't back up. Stand your ground, catch your breath, then move forward.

What is your next move? Other than the obvious (her pulling her head out of her butt and working with you instead of against you), what do you want? Where will you go from here? What concrete steps can you take now?

Good luck and here's another hug from one whose been there.

Boy, I had no idea this would happen today...

I had to discuss with her what we were going to do wit Chrismas Day...

NOT because I had any previous doubts, but SHE has made it clear that she wants to go to her family and friend parties without me, so that has been digging my heart out with a spoon for weeks. and i have been telling her that to no avail.

So It had to come up that I was mad and hurt that I am including her, and she is excluding me. So, then EVERYTHING came up.
She made it apparent (as completely deluded as it is!!) that she thinks it is more her home than mine (as regards who should go if we did a trial, even though SHE is the one who "wants space") and thought that she owned more of the house (she has more money... cheesy) and that she did more work on it (COMPLETELY DELUDED AND DISREGARDING OF MY WORK)... So I had to tell her that IF I separated, I would have to have something to come back to too, and as I am being told, I DO NOT. THIS is not a life, and I am NOT appreciated around here, and it IS not and WAS NOT my home (according to her) so I don't have any reason to be here.

So I told her that we should call the lawyers in a week or two. I told her if nothing changes, that the separation we will be doing will have to be permanent... And I will have do go through with it as if it is a divorce. I made it clear that I have no choice unless I SEE SOMETHING dramatically different. I am not keeping ANY hopes on this. But I don't want her to feel that she has NOTHING to gain or lose either.

Ugh. I can't believe this is happening to me at Christmas!!!! I still made her feel wanted at my Family Christmas celebration, and I made it clear that we would have a nice time, and my parents want her there too. I have to do the right thing here if noone else is going to.


Bernie

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

So sorry Bernie! {{{Hugs}}} It really appears she doesn't want to put any effort into the relationship, and that is very sad. As with many that have any type of problem they deny, they have to hit a rock bottom before they seek help. Hopefully, she won't have to hit to hard to see the light, especially for the sake of your little girl.

I know every state is different when it comes to divorce and it also depends on your lawyer, but thought I would share with you my brother's experience due previous posters suggestion for you to gather documentation.
My brother had sold his home because he did not like the location. He then married a gal that had her own home, which she had $12K equity. They looked for a new home, thinking they would sell hers, combine his money from the sale of his home and buy a new one. Homes had taken a large increase in price since the sale of his home and the purchase of her home, so they decided they would stay at her home, and take his money and fix it up. He spent $30K on new windows, capeting, remodel of bathroom, new fence, customer shed, etc. When their mariage ended 3 years later, she asked to keep the house free and clear. Thank goodness, he had bank records, and many of the receipts for the home improvements. The judge orderd them to sell the home, he gave her the $12K, him the $30K and they had to split the rest. They had no children, so I don't no if that made a difference. I really feel judges are more fair now-a-days in property settlements than in years past. So, if you can, continue to gather as much information as you can while you are still at the house.
I do hope everything works out for the best of all for your family.

I'm keeping you in my prayers. At this point, maybe try not to focus on Christmas and the holidays so much and work toward having a happy and peaceful future. Christmas is really just another day of the year. We build up so much expectation for that one day that it's easy to be disappointed no matter what happens.

~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~
Lisa in Telly




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Mountains Rule Blog

but I'm glad you have come to a decision. I think one of the most painful things is being in that in between state. I hope eventually you will be able to look back and know that you made the right decision.

Amy

I feel self conscious having so much sad and negative to say all the time recently, which I know does not make sense, but I am not making a lot of sense today.

I have to get it off of my chest that I am just aching and hurting tremendously today. It is almost a physical pain. But it is just my heart. And the innocent person inside that just can't understand how this could be happening... When I look at Biata I just can't help but think that she should be able to see what she is doing to us, to me, our lives, our family, our daughter.... Even if it is just a brief window of clarity...

After all I have done for her, and for us... All we have been through - 20 years of marriage in 4 years, I tell you... HOW?? How can someone throw this all away?? How could she not feel more invested herself??? I just want to cry. And to scream... And lie down and get lost in a movie about someone else's world... anything but mine right now...

My sister Sharon flew out from California to make Christmas a little better here, which I have been happy about all week... But today I am having a very hard time feeling joy about anything... Boy, I don't sound too good, do I??


I need to cry



Bernie

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

..but I understand that you are hurting. It is probably a necassary process to get through it all. Sorry you have to go through all this, Bernie.
The holidays intensifies all family matters.

Hug of support from Norway.

-<nerdo>-

Well, My Family are a bunch of troopers. I just called them to tell them just that too. I told them they are the best family I could ever want.

With all the potentially bad vibes and hurt and divorce crap happening, I still decided that having Biata over my parents house was the best idea. For a number of reasons.

Not only did my family just accept it all with grace, we ACTUALLY had what I would call a LOVELY time... And this is the longest time, in hours, in one day that Biata and I have hung out in months... I was somehow able to put all my hurt and anger aside, and even pass along some positive and connective emotions to her, and appreciate her Christmas gifts.

I had even found out before we left that she had PRINTED those emails she busted into a month ago (no surprise there, I knew she did SOMETHING with them...) and had them in a folder for her LAWYER for some reason(nothing for me to hide anyway) - which means she AGAIN bold-faced LIED to me during that conversation a month ago(surprise, surprise). So I took the printouts, and erased the files from all the computers except for one, so I can prove when she did it if I need it. She claims she didn't print them, but just wanted to look at them. So she can't ask me for them, since she isn't supposed to have printed them!!! Ha ha. Or so I think.

I wonder what she will pull for New Years?? ha ha

Even with that, I still put it aside (an hour or so later) and we still had a nice time today. Most importantly, our daughter had a fantastic time.

**thank you guys for your support through this tremendously challenging time, and through the holidays here.



Bernie


IT'S ME, BERNIE!

and have a nice Christmas for your daughter. That's awesome! It sounds like you have a very supportive family.

Amy

Just read your post here. And "boy", could I relate to it.

I must tell you that I feel with you.
My last girlfriend hat BPD, too, and it was hell for me.
Fortunately she was "just" my girlfriend.

She kept my feelings way to busy to call it "love".
She was so insane and couldn't see it and didn't want to.

Life was crazy for me back then. I was glad when it was over - although she terrorized me for about 5 months afterwards.

I wondered how you are doing now. Maybe you want to give an update.

Wishing you peace of mind and that you can find yourself again,
Holger

Well I hope.

Amy

Even though she has her illness, this is still a huge slap in the face and scary, upsetting, and worries me that I will not be able to go on with my life for a while.

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

As importantly as she needs her mom.

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

Police were at my home. I cannot describe the feeling of having those two police cars parked outside of my home. I made sure the police knew that she groundlessly threatened the call to 911 for no emergency reason as well. They did not do anything but take our names etc. Sad sad sad.

I have accepted and am ready for whatever comes.
It is just a waste and is so unnecessary and hurtful to our family and our daughter for her to be playing these games.

IT'S ME, BERNIE!

I'm really sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time just because you want to be a good dad. I think it's great that you are willing to do whatever it takes to stay in your daughter's life and I hope things work out so that you can be with her soon.

Amy

...
I had really gotten my hopes up that things were working out for you guys.
I'm really sorry you and your family are going through this, Bernie.
Hang in there.

(((BIG HUG)))


-<nerdo>-

I hope things are going okay for you.

Amy

How about an update? How are you doing?

Tote