wrestle10 (Login wrestle10) from IP address 76.237.97.193
I would like to make a suggestion for the rules committee to consider.
Let me first say I thought they took a great first step by seeding the 4 class champions for the state open. It was a needed step to try to get the 2 best wrestlers in a weight class on different sides of the bracket.
I believe that we do have to take another step at the class seedings to ensure that the wrestlers get the correct number of points based on thier yearly record and the previous years state accomplishments and that is we need to eliminate out of state records when getting your win loss record.
I thought this was evident this year at the 119 lb. weight class. Based on our current point system of the four class champions Costanza from Danbury finished 4th out of 4. I know that made me ask how when the previous season he was a state open finalist and he was undefeated in CT. this year. The only reason his points fell to last was his out of state losses.
Before anyone gets up and says well that is the price you pay for wrestling all those out of state matches think about what you are saying. Who did this really hurt did it hurt Costanzo, I say no he went on to win the open title. The people it really hurt was (1) Anthony Riccio from stratford who was seeded first but met Costanzo in the semifinals and (2) all of us for not having what I consider the best match of the year in any weight class under the lights in the finals where it belonged.
I just hope the committe will consider this as I know they are always looking to improve the way we run our sport.
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I disagree with much of what u stated. If you choose to wrestle out of state it should count, for and against u. If you want to pad your record (which some teams do) then that is your choice. It usauslly will come out in the wash. Don't forget some of his wins came from out of state too. But the main point difference is placement. He did take 5th in LL's last year, and second in Opens, but he was going up against kids that took 1st or 2nd in their class the year before. I think it worked well. No system is ever going to be perfect.
Now about 119.
Ricco was first seed because of the point system. How can u change that?? Popular opinion!!!! LOL. Not to take any thing away from Ricco, he is a great young man, but he wasn't in great shape this year from what I saw. If he was on his A game he would of walked thru the Opens, and placed top 3 @ New Englands. But you can't not put him first do to that. Also Walsh deserved to be in the finals, and proved to be a tough match. Not only that but Walsh almost beat Shortt @ New Englands. So u can't say he wasn't as good as Ricco. I think 119 fell the way it should of at the Opens. 119 was a very close weight class this year. From Costanza, Ricco, Walsh, Lynn, Torres, Thuotte, Johnson, Zachery, Ferrante, Lim, and even Whilhelm if he was healthy. All of these matches were close matches, an occasional beat down but not often. Lynn lost to Torres by 1 and beat Johnson by 3, Costanza beat Torres & Johnson by 2 or 3. Thuotte beat Torres and Johnson and Lynn twice but lost to him in opens. Ferrante beat Johnson in OT. Whilhelm smoked Lynn, didn't make opens. I could go on an on. I told Lynn before the States that 119 was the deepest class this year. At the m's it was hands down the deepest. The #10 seeded wrestler won 80% of his matches. I'll tell you what I was very surprised no 119's bumped up to 125 at the M's, clearly a weaker weight class. Any of the top 10 at 119 could of placed top 6 at 125. Sorry for the drawn out nonsense, just thought u were off a bit on this weight class.
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Ya I dumb!! I got him confused with the Danbury kid who got in as an alternate and placed in the opens. Was it Madicore?? But just to prove a point he was 5th and got in. Oh I feel so smart now. LOL
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still don't see why out of state count no other state does it that way. we get extra pts for wins anyway so even if they pad they won't count plus they get no bonus pts for 18 and 28 wins
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The comment about padding records was not referring to teams going out of state to wrestle. It was referring to the teams that are quite capable of wrestling the mid to upper echelon teams in the state yet consistently schedule matches with teams like Chenny Tech all the time so that there kids will get better seeds in the state tournament and not so that they will be tournament tested already.
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I don't think schedule "padding" or inflated records should really be worried about. The teams that seek the competition will get better, the teams that don't will not perform well at states and new englands. Simple as that. The people who should be bothered by this are the kids on teams that do wrestle lighter schedules and don't get to challenge themselves. Teams like Danbury will wrestle the best and turn out open champs with 5 or 6 losses in a season.
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My point exactly!! But it works both ways. If you choose to wrestle tougher comp out of State, then it should count. It is no different than those teams that come in too our State Tournemants every yr and get top 4 seeds and don't even place. We can cry all we want to about the seeds we get, but it normally works it self out in the end. I have seen numerous times where kids were 4-3 in the conference and 20-5 over all. This is just the opposite spectrum then wrestling out of State. We brag about how we search out tougher comp, but yet we don't want it to count on our record. No true wrestler or wrestling team does that. Make the schedule and live by it, it is only going to make you better!! Ask Danbury!!
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I had to wrestle a Kid from Middletown RI in the Woodstock Tourney, and that counted on my record. I think that if you are wrestling someone from out of state, and it is a CIAC sanctioned match, then it counts for or against you. Like in New Englands, if you loose there it's a loss on your overall record, as it should be.
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I can agree with that. Records in general are overrated. They're just not a real foolproof way to rate a wrestler. Other than actually watching someone wrestle, the best way to judge someone's ability is look at who they beat and who they lost to. It's more about WHO than quantity of wins or losses.
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Lots of insight on the topic. A couple of things about my original point. I never said don't count just the losses. I said don't count the record this should stop some from "Padding" thier record.
The other point is again I am reading if you choose to wrestle out of state you have to live with the record. My point again is that it is not just you that has to live with that record. the fact that your state point total slipped affects more than just you. I am sure thier is a bracket framed on the wall of the Costanza living room. It did not hurt him it hurt others.
As far as anyone saying that the weight class was seeded correctly how can you say that when a kid that was a returning LL and open finalist and undefeated in CT. this year gets the last of the 4 seedes and then goes on to win the tournament.
Let me finish by saying it is not about this weight class this is just an example. I believe last year at the LL's there was a 9th seed that won the tournament and finished 2nd at the open. It is about doing the fairest thing and improving our sport.
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its about getting the right 2 guys in the finals and thats why they started seeding anyway and that may not happen by counting out of state records in the seeding
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I understand your concern, but I don't see a way to make it happen. U see it in every sport. Would u be happy if every time the 1-6 seeds finish 1-6. That is what u are getting at. If that was the case we could just show up and get medals. U need to stick to a format fair to all. It isn't always pertfect, but I thought this year it worked out pretty well. @ New Englands this year some of the best matches were in the Quarters. There is no easy way to seed wrestlers, because on any given day it could be yours or not.
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Teams schedule us because they are usually in Class M, so there is basis for or against their wrestler getting the proper seeding. That is the only way a wrestler who might not be a placewinner can improve his seeding, is by beating someone higher that him on the list. And most upper echelon schools don't schedule us, we happen to run into them in a Dual tournament format where there are 3 or 4 top-tier teams, a few middle of the road teams, and the weaker teams such as us. And even though we don't have a powerhouse schedule, it is appropriate for the level of wrestler we get that walks through our doors. We have students from 22 towns come to our school and many don't have youth systems or junior high teams. We teach most of our wrestlers from the ground up, so 13 wins as a team, although not against the "best" teams in the state, is a step in the right direction.
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all i know is it bugs the hell outta me when tournament time rolls around and you see schools like a certain ecc school who made it most of the season undefeated by wrestling a light schedule with wrestlers seeded way above superior wrestlers whose coaches chose to wrestle the toughest schedule they could get for their team. yeah, i know that it doesnt do the team who wrestled the easy schedule and racked up a high number of easy wins a lot of good come conference and state tournaments cuz they're just going to go out there and most likely lose to the good danbury or ledyard kid they didn't see all season. never the less, they get a better seed because of their high season winning percentage and get byes which some of us don't get-they can still end up placing higher as a result. i know there is nothing we can do about it, that's life. i will still rather wrestle better teams during the season to get me ready, everyone knows who has the bogus, inflated win records. i'd rather lose by a couple of points to the best in my weight class than go out and pin easy kids every week and build up a joke of a record.
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I can only surmise from this posting that you are talking about Bacon Academy. While you are entitled to your opinion, good opinions are based on facts. Please keep in mind that the schedules are finalized the year prior to the season, normally at the Conference & State seeding meetings so when a team that was not a truly competitive team the year prior has a great year, they may not be on many traditionally competitive teams schedule that particular year. Bacon's easy schedule you alluded to for 2007-2008 included: Danbury, Windham, Killingly, Middletown, Berlin, Hand, Jonathon Law, Waterford, Pomperaug - to name a few. Bacon beat 6 of these 9 teams in a dual match(losing to Danbury, Middletown, & Berlin). The Middletown loss was a matter of two points, a great match which could have gone either way. This constitutes Bacon having wrestled 6 of the season's Top 10 teams. This year was not Bacon & Ledyard's year to have a small div/large div ECC conference crossover match, so this was a rare year that they did not compete in a dual match. Of the top 10 teams in the final Coach's poll for 2007-08 or teams receiving votes, Bacon wrestled 10 of them in a dual match or in a tournament setting as well as a couple of teams like Griswold, Killingly, Platt, and Montville who were teams on last years final Coach's poll. So the reality is that Bacon wrestled the 3 of the 4 State Class Champion Teams in dual matches(Danbury, Killingly, Middletown) and the fourth (Ledyard) in the ECC tournament as well as 2/3 of the Top rated teams in the state. While keeping all the above named teams on their schedule, Bacon has added New Milford and Bristol Central to their dual schedule for next year as well as the Danbury Invitational tournament and it because of some changes in the ECC conference they will wrestle Ledyard every year from now on. This will ensure that Bacon has the opportunity to compete with almost every one of the Top 15 teams from this year next year (there are very few similar team schedules). Another fact is that Bacon wrestled 36 dual matches this year... more than any team in the Top 10, this meant that the Bacon kids had at least 4 matches every Saturday... sometimes 5... no tournament byes or 2 losses and out... win or lose they went out on the mat 4-5 times every single weekend... nowhere to hide. I think all the incredibly tough teams I mentioned above should be insulted by your reference to them as "easy kids" and your comment about all of Bacon's "unearned byes" only demonstrates how little you know about what you are saying. "Better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you are a fool than to open it and confirm their suspicion".
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Coach Morris is correct for once!!LOL. Bacon was picked apart all year, but when it came down to it they were top notch, and will be again next year. Good things are going on down there, but with success comes some critics. I hope the previous poster wasn't calling Bacon out. They had a very tough Dual meet team this year, with a few hammers. Next year they will be top notch again. We can't wait to beat them!!!LOL
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while some teams may not achieve their seeds due to inflated records, Bacon is not one of them--see below. if not for their 112 #1 seed out with injury, they would have battled Wind for 2nd
To respond to the topic the original poster discussed. I 100% agree that out of state competition matches should NOT count toward seeding at CT conference, class, state, or state open tournaments. The point is to get the best two wrestlers to face each other in the finals and not before. Discounting out of state matches is not a measure to help teams like Danbury, they will do well regardless. It is important for individuals on teams who are NOT like Danbury or a few other teams that seek stronger competition outside of CT. When you count these out of state matches, very strong wrestlers will have a lower winning percentage than some wrestlers who did not face such stiff competition so the stronger wrestlers will get a lower seed and commonly the true finals matches end up happening in the semis or even the quarters and I am sure no one wants to see that - it is not fair to the kids. When it comes to comparing the wrestlers for seeding at the state level, keep the comparison apples to apples (comparing the wrestlers to their peers in which they could possibly face within that state). I don't think anyone can argue that this measure will prevent the problem of false seeding. It will also encourage teams to seek challenging competition outside the state without fear of this penalizing their wrestlers come end of season tournament time. The only issue would be for coaches who take their team out of state to balance their schedule enough to ensure they compete with enough CT teams to furnish the seed points for the 18 or 28 wins. If the intent is to raise the CT competition level and to align seeding as closely to the ultimate outcome as possible, discounting out of state matches is absolutely the right thing to do.
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other sports (football, basketball etc) count games vs out of state teams toward state seeding criteria, so it is a matter of consistency. we do not count matches vs prep schools, and it is already somewhat difficult to account for every wrestler on every team's record. inflated records have less to do with out of state teams than with consistent scheduling. don't forget--not all out of state matches "hurt" one's record. and yes, while I meant it would help costanzo's seed, it may have helped ricco's draw, but as they did not meet, I refuse to take anything away from walsh by definitively stating ricco deserved to meet costanzo in finals.
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This boils down to more than winning and losing. How can we as a State hold our heads high if we don't count these matches. Yes we want tougher comp, but no we don't want them to affect our record. What lesson's are we teaching our wrestles by doing this. Its the same thing as bumping your kid away from a Ct stud just to protect his record. Is that not frowned upon anymore!!! I understand that we want to provide the best oppertunity to our wrestlers. Fixing things is always a plus but not when it takes the integrity out of the sport. We are wrestlers, we wrestle to win, if we work harder and faster it should all wash out in the end.
I don't have the answers to what negative might come from this if we didn't count these matches. Those will arise only if this gets passed.
All this not counting out of state matches sounds like this to me. Imagine this conversation.
Hey what was the results of the Eagle Classic this yr? Mt Anthony took first with 325 points, East Catholic took 2nd with 155 points, and we took 3rd with 154 points. Hey we are pretty studly and wrestled great, we were only 1 point from taking first for CT teams.
or maybe this
Hey what was the results of the Eagle Classic this yr. Mt. Anthony took first with 325 points, East Catholic took 2nd with 155, and we took third with 154. Hey we wrestled well, hung with those Vermont guys on the mat. Hopefully our guys learned that they can hang with them and bring it to them next time we see em. But hey third is nothing to be ashamed of.
Just a thought!!! Have fun!!
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It is not about reputations... I could care less what any other state thinks about us... it is about the individual kids and getting it right so they are justly rewarded for their effort and skill. Most kids only get 1 maybe 2 shots at really competing in these tournaments to place or win and we all know the incredible amounts of time and effort they put into preparing... it is our duty as the managers of the process to seek to improve the accuracy and justness of that process.
So far I have only seen and heard good reasons for not counting those matches and I have not heard any specific bad reasons... if good reasons against discounting the out of state matches cannot be produced why would you not want to create the most accurate seeding system.
If the premise is to have the seeding come as close as possible to the actual result of the competition... then counting those out of state matches only hurts and does not help this process.
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Of coarse it is about reputation, why else did you come on hear early to defend your team about ducking comp. Just as I would of.
Not everything needs to have answers for. It is that simple to me. How far do we need to go to get seeds as close as possible. Why not look at every match and give different points for different wins, pins, tech, majors.
U should be proud that the majority of your team finished ahead of thier seeds. That is our goal every year. That alone proves that u guys wrestle good comp. BUt they were all proper seeds. Why beause we all play by the same rules.
Look at it this way. U have a team that travels out of state and loses 2 or 3 times, in one weekend. They don't wrestle more than 2 teams in the top ten all year, where they were assured to get a few loses. Now if we don't count those loses their records are much better than they really are. It works both ways.
All this is about loses, driven by losses. That to me is more about running scared then getting things right for the wrestlers. Teaching them about losing to a better opponent isn't a lost cause, is it!! How can we compete with other states if we are scared to count thier matchs, yes Scared, is that how wrestlers live thier lives. Not @ RHAM, we have had some of the worst years in my history of being there. But we sure as hell aren't going to run and hide, change our schedule to weaker teams, so that we look better on paper. You work thru it, deal with what you are dealt, and improve.
I normally wouldn't go on with this, I just think this is not the right reason to do change this.
Maybe one day when u wake up as good looking as me it will all make sense to u. LOL
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Do the right thing no matter who you think should have been in the final with Costanza, I think we all agree he shouldn't have been the last seed of all the class champs.
At least consider doing the right thing.
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I do have an open mind. Very u should see all the air up there!!1
Maybe if he wrestled more in State he would of had a chance to see these other guys. It is a double edge sword!!
I think we should look at fine tuning the way we seed to top 4. But how do we do that?
Billy Lynn had to run into Ricco in the Semi's at the M's, lost by one because he tried to stall out for the win. He would of gave Torres a run for his money. He lost to him by 1 point earlier in the year. Placed higher than him at opens with a worse draw. Clayton Johnson didn't deserve a 6 seed but because he didn't have enough points from last year he ends up there. We can't predict every outcome. I agree that we could fine tune it, but not this way. Maybe when our guys go off to wrestle in college they will only count matches against Ct kids. Then maybe we will have large #'s of all americans.
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All I am saying is the system is flawed. Our goal should be to get it seeded correctly. I still have not heard you say this weight class was not seeded correctly with Costanza finishing last of the 4 class champions. I guess if my guy got put in the other half of the bracket from Riccio and Costanza I might fight that fight also but I hope I would look at what is best for all concerned.
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Please don't insult me, you probably don't know a thing about me, other than my grammer and spelling suck.
My guy wanted to go 125 for States in the middle of the year. Even though he could of took top 3 alot easier at 125, I knew it wasn't the right move. What would I be teaching him if I let him take the easy way out. Sounds fimilar!!!
I play the cards that are dealt and don't complain about them afterwards. I wanted my kid to see Costanza, and like I stated he saw Ricco the week before and had the match won.
Maybe he could of saw Costanza, and because Costanza is so good he wouldn't have to count it on his overall record.Funny!!!
The kid I didn't want him to see was Walsh, but he did see him in the Semi's and lost. But you don't see me complaining about seeds, and making up excuses for why he had to wrestle this kid or that kid.
We know the system is flawed, so is every single system we have in this world. It is for us to deal with and try to fix, but do so with reason.
U act like Costanza was heads above the rest. How do u come to that conclusion? He beat Walsh 4-2, he beat Ferrente by 1 point, and Ferrente didn't even place at opens. If I remeber correctly he only beat Torres by 2, same against Johnson. He beat Ricco by 1. Those aren't dominating #'s, wins but not criteria too put him heads above the rest. He is good, but he is no lock. Please don't take offense, and don't get me wrong I was very impressed with what I saw from Costanza. I hate to use someones name to prove a point unless is was one of my kids.
U guys haven't acknowledged any of the reasons I have given to why we shouldn't count out of state matches. All I hear from u guys is we need to fix the seeding. I agree we may need to fix seeding, but not counting out of State matches is not the answer. It may be the only one u can come up with right now but it doesn't constitute change. I respect your interest about fixing things, but not this way. 119 could of gone any witch way. This was not a good weight class to use for a bench mark. In my opinion Walsh beats Ricco any ways.
One last point. Look what happened to Ledyard when they opted to go up to up to the L's. Same kind of thing u guys want to do with not counting these out of State matches. May look good on paper but clearly not the way to go.
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Coach Fitch, I honestly did not mean to insult you. I just can't see why people don't want to at least look at what could be a better system. I think you handle yourself very well and again did not want to insult you.
I do believe that this would be better but I can see that change can sometimes be an issue.
Lastly although it may seem as though this is just about 119 this year I didn't mean it to be that. It was just the most recent example.
Change can be difficult. Keep the system as it is.
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Staying home with the kids today. Plenty of time to chat.
I didn't mean to come of so harsh. I was insulted about the fact u thought I only cared about my kid and his draw. That is never the case, probably to a fault for me.
I am not a guy who would make this sink or swim. I just had an opinion, a very strong one. One that im my eyes realated to the integrity of our sport. This seeding thing does need to be addressed, but not for that reason. We all know that each class is different, each state championship is different, each division is different. I personaly think a S's State Champ is different than a M's State Champ, in most cases. But not in all!! That is why we treat them all the same across the board. That is more of a reason why Costanza was 4th. Him doing his thing in the LL's is different than someone doing their thing in th S's. Ya he was undefeated in CT, but u get my point. Being a big dog in the LL's and M's and this year even L's is slightly different than the S's in most cases. But we couldn't use that in our seeding criteria, because it isn't fair. When u change things they need to be equal for all, negative and positive. That is why it is so hard to change things.
I am always open for change, always have been. That is why I have come on this site for so long now. I think this site has been a positive venue for things like this. I love this sport and wish nothing than the best for it. Hopefully we can show others that a discussion like this is healthy, and doesn't have to turn to personal attacks.
Maybe one day Coaches won't be affraid to come on here an have such a healthy discussion. This site was intended to help CT wrestling and promote this sport. Some people involved in this sport can't see past the fact the kids will be kids. U can only control what they say and do so much. But to disencourage this site is rediculous. If used properly like we have been doing it can only help.
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We all know alot about you. You used to be on this web site all the time. Do you wrestle alot of out of state teams. It would hold more weight in your argument if you wrestled alot of out of state teams and it negatively effected your record.
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Thank you for proving my point. We try not to cross the line then comes a nameless joe. That is why this site gets a bad name. Maybe we should tell our kids to stay away from this site!!!! Even adults can act like nameless fools.
The reason u have heard so much about me, or that u think I was on this site all the time a few years ago is very simple. I leave my name and have always left my name. I never hide beind the computer.
Ur 2 cents might mean alot to u, but to the rest of us you are just a nameless "kid" trying to start a fire. Why don't u come up and chat with me to maybe get to know me, rather than hide and throw stones. I am one of the easiest guys to approach, and u would know that if u took the time. Most that have realize I am a pretty decent guy, and "good looking".
Now to the serious stuff.
We do not wrestle many out of state teams. We See MT. Anthony at the Eagle, and a few teams at the Berlin Duals, I think. We use to see St Johns Prep (very tough). But like I stated before, this has nothing to do with my team, or our records. For me this has nothing to do with records at all. It has to do with pretty much running scared.
We have a choice to schedule out of state teams or not too. We shouldn't be able say these count these don't, that is little league, an not a good lesson to be teaching our wrestlers.
Hey I am all about wrestling the best schedule u can, but pay the price for it. Those that choose not to wrestle a tough schedule pay the price for it all the time.
Rememeber, I think we can have as many scrimmages as we want. Set them up that way then see how many teams want to wrestle you out of state. I am sure they count it as a win or lose.
I don't mind the conversation, just keep it clean. I put too much time into this sport to get ridiculed by masked men.
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I'll agree with Coach Fitch on one point, as much as it may pain me, if you're going to throw jabs on here don't do it anonymously... it makes your posting a waste of time because no one will give it any weight or consideration.
I do not agree that discounting out of state matches is "running scared". If the premise of seeding is to as closely as possible align the seeds with the eventual competition outcome based on the merits of the wrestler's previous competition accomplishments... it only makes sense to only compare apples to apples. A compromise might be to add an additional seeding criteria to the list starting with in-state record, then give points for total record... then continue with seeding process we already have. I'd default to Nowa's expertise on how this may impact the process but at least it would be a stab at preventing out of state losses (and wins for that matter) from dramatically throwing the seeding outcome of the state competitions.
To address the point of what kind of example do we set for the kids. I think the kids trust and expect us as coaches and adult leaders in the state high school wrestling system to analyze these types of issues and develop a fair and intelligent process. I am very confident in stating that none of the coaches who have posted on this subject in favor of discounting out of state matches is worried about their kid being unfairly seeded and losing as a result. Just the opposite, as coaches of teams who frequently wrestle out of state matches in search of stronger competition, they have seen a number of situations in the conference and especially state tournaments where their kid is seeded low because of those out of state losses only to beat a wrestler who belonged in the finals in semis or even the quarters. Its not fair the to falsely high seeded wrestler and it does not achieve what I perceive as the desired outcome.. the best two wrestlers in the finals.
If the best two wrestlers by in-state record are not in the finals, let it be because another wrestler rose to the occassion and not because of a flawed seeding process.
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I'll agree with Coach Fitch on one point, as much as it may pain me, if you're going to throw jabs on here don't do it anonymously... it makes your posting a waste of time because no one will give it any weight or consideration.
I do not agree that discounting out of state matches is "running scared". If the premise of seeding is to as closely as possible align the seeds with the eventual competition outcome based on the merits of the wrestler's previous competition accomplishments... it only makes sense to only compare apples to apples. A compromise might be to add an additional seeding criteria to the list starting with in-state record, then give points for total record... then continue with seeding process we already have. I'd default to Nowa's expertise on how this may impact the process but at least it would be a stab at preventing out of state losses (and wins for that matter) from dramatically throwing the seeding outcome of the state competitions.
To address the point of what kind of example do we set for the kids. I think the kids trust and expect us as coaches and adult leaders in the state high school wrestling system to analyze these types of issues and develop a fair and intelligent process. I am very confident in stating that none of the coaches who have posted on this subject in favor of discounting out of state matches is worried about their kid being unfairly seeded and losing as a result. Just the opposite, as coaches of teams who frequently wrestle out of state matches in search of stronger competition, they have seen a number of situations in the conference and especially state tournaments where their kid is seeded low because of those out of state losses only to beat a wrestler who belonged in the finals in semis or even the quarters. Its not fair the to falsely high seeded wrestler and it does not achieve what I perceive as the desired outcome.. the best two wrestlers in the finals.
If the best two wrestlers by in-state record are not in the finals, let it be because another wrestler rose to the occassion and not because of a flawed seeding process.
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I'll agree with Coach Fitch on one point, as much as it may pain me, if you're going to throw jabs on here don't do it anonymously... it makes your posting a waste of time because no one will give it any weight or consideration.
I do not agree that discounting out of state matches is "running scared". If the premise of seeding is to as closely as possible align the seeds with the eventual competition outcome based on the merits of the wrestler's previous competition accomplishments... it only makes sense to only compare apples to apples. A compromise might be to add an additional seeding criteria to the list starting with in-state record, then give points for total record... then continue with seeding process we already have. I'd default to Nowa's expertise on how this may impact the process but at least it would be a stab at preventing out of state losses (and wins for that matter) from dramatically throwing the seeding outcome of the state competitions.
To address the point of what kind of example do we set for the kids. I think the kids trust and expect us as coaches and adult leaders in the state high school wrestling system to analyze these types of issues and develop a fair and intelligent process. I am very confident in stating that none of the coaches who have posted on this subject in favor of discounting out of state matches is worried about their kid being unfairly seeded and losing as a result. Just the opposite, as coaches of teams who frequently wrestle out of state matches in search of stronger competition, they have seen a number of situations in the conference and especially state tournaments where their kid is seeded low because of those out of state losses only to beat a wrestler who belonged in the finals in semis or even the quarters. Its not fair the to falsely high seeded wrestler and it does not achieve what I perceive as the desired outcome.. the best two wrestlers in the finals.
If the best two wrestlers by in-state record are not in the finals, let it be because another wrestler rose to the occassion and not because of a flawed seeding process.
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2 months it took to compose that. Coach Morris did you have Czaplicki spell check? LOL!!! U have valid points thats all I'll say about it. My point has been stated.
U haven't heard the last from me. I got that email from u "begging" for money. I will be intouch and see if I can attend. If not I will send in my proud sponser, but it will be addressed from an out of state address. So it may not be worth anything!!! Man I am funny!!! Have fun, good luck!!
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