I'm going 160 for the benefit of my team. Dean Gilbert had to weigh in at ECC's with food stuffed in his mouth so he could be heavier than 147 to be able to wrestle 160.
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In just about every Ledyard box score out there Sullivan has wrestled 152. I thought that you have to weigh in for a certain amount of matches at a weight class to be a seeded wrestler in that weight class come states. Am I mistaken???
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You can always go to a higher weight class so in that sense you would be wrong about the weigh ins. If he were going down a weight class, he would have to have 1/3 of his weigh ins at that weight. Where you certified in the beginning of the season also has an effect on that.
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Not just 160's, but how does someone switching classes go to top seed in another class when the bulk of matches were in lighter weight and have not wrestled most kids in new weight?
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I agree with you. A few wrestlers did this for the SCC, and carried their records with them, and got high seeds. They had not wrestled one person in their weight. I think it is a rule that they need some critera for the wrestler, and privious weight record counts.
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if shane were to wrestle at 160 or 152 he would place top 4 in either and qualify for opens. hes not running from ford or anyone else hes doing whats better for his team in letting gilbert wrestle a weight class were he is more competive although even at 160 last weekend at ecc's gilbert was very tough you saw he was just being out muscled
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The point I'm making is yes he will do well in either class, but should definately be seeded lower. Wrestling guys like Monson, Acca, Volaro, Sawyer (160's have to bump up often)etc. causes regular 160's to get a much lower seed than a "part-time 60".
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As is bumping in a dual, 99% of the time it is a coach's decision what weight his wrestlers go at states. My guess would be that the Ledyard head coach made a strategic decision that he thought would improve his team's chances to win the Ms. It will be close and a couple of points may be the difference, as it was at the ECCs.
Drew was looking forward to a tough match with Shane. I know both Shane and his father. They are both very competitive and would not walk away from a tough match if it wasn't for the betterment of the team.
Drew and Shane are both juniors. For them, there is always next year.
Good luck to both Shane and Brendan, see you folks at the Ms.
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I am very confident that Shane will win m's at 160, and if he was to wrestle Ford, Ford would not dominate Shane like everyone thinks, i mean yes, Ford is the best pound for pound wrestler in the state, but i dont really think people realize how good shane is. Good luck to all at m's.
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Only to you Mr. wrestlebacks and the other morons who can't look past their nose.
Sullivan wrestled 16 times at 160 and 14 times at 152. That alone justifies going 160. Also, clearly JV wrestlers like yourself (who are not in the "circle of trust") don't realize that the wrestles have little or no input where they wrestle in the big tournys. Every sport shifts line ups, period. In baseball they will sit a right certain handed hitter if a lefty is pitching, in football they will move guards and tackles around sometimes to match other teams lines, in BB, they may starts a bench player to shut down a specific opponent.
When people like you make stupid comments like you just did, the only thing you do is expose to everyone else how inexperienced and ignorant you are. This is the time of the year when the needs of the TEAM outweigh the desires of the individual wrestlers and if you can't grasp that very simple concept, I suggest you simply fade to the background noise where you belong.
To Shane and all the others who were asked to look at the teams needs first, good luck and consider it an honor that you are a flexible asset to your team.
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when people make comments such as above about someone "ducking" someone, they are missing the bigger picture. not only is it a strategic plan to maximize team points, but there is nothing wrong with attempting a maximize your wrestler's placement. just because a decision is being made now as opposed to earlier in the season, think back as to how many wrestlers make decisions on weight classes based on what weight certain opponents might go. if you recall TJ's days, there were some pretty tough kids in the weight classes just above and just below him...but if someone was looking to be a state open champ, they probably did not go his weight. same thing happened last year with coutu--there were some 140's who could have made 135...but to what end (and sucking to 130 was not going to improve your lot in life either)
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I dont see how Sullivan is ducking anyone, when his coach bumped him up for the benefit of the team. He could of protested, and I'm sure his coach would of let him wrestle 52, but his being very unselfish so that his team has a better chance at getting more points so they can win the tournament. It's like in a dual meet, if your coach thinks that he can get 6 points out of you, instead of 3 in a match between 2 great wrestlers, then he's gonna do it. I remeber countless times when my coach bumped me from 89 to 215, so that he could jockey the line up for the lower weights. Good luck Shane. Wrestle hard
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I think this can be looked at from both perspectives. To be honest, my senior year I was a 145, and I bumped to 152 and 160 a ton of times for the team. The class M champ at 152 I had almost majored, the second place finisher I had teched and pinned on different occasions that year. I feel confident that I could have gone 152 and won the M's, however I chose to go 145, which was a MUCH tougher weight that year, perhaps the toughest. I think that if Shane can make 152 without killing himself, which apparently he can do, then he should do it. I can understand bumping in a dual meet, but at the state tournament it is different. I really feel it is a cowardly move, not that it matters what I think. Ledyard will do what it has to do I suppose. I have rarely seen a coach bump his wrestler during my college career. Ford is only human, he can lose too.
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To davebrown and all the others criticizing the Ledyard wrestler:
Wrestlers wrestle and coaches coach.
The coaching staff usually decides where a wrestler will compete at, so please do not call this wrestler a "coward". It just shows you how little you know about what is really going on, and how the team is more important than the individual. Ledyard is looking to win a team championship, this move makes their team stronger.
It's a no-brainer guys. Ford is an incredible wrestler, and yes, he can lose, but I highly doubt you'll see that until New Englands, if at all this season. Sullivan is actually making a huge sacrifice for his team, because he probably has a better shot of placing at state opens, and making New Englands at 152, going 160 may shorten his season but he's doing it for the team.
Since some teams have their wrestlers names on the back of the singlet, this quote will make sense, "The name on the FRONT of the singlet is much more important than the name on the BACK."
An old coach
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I meant my post to sound as though I understand it from Ledyard's perspective because they have a shot at the title. "Ledyard will do what it has to do". Hopefully it pays off for them, and never did I mean to sound as though Shane is a coward, I just meant that move in general.
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Listen, as "jv" as you think I may sound I'm not stating whether or not ledyard made a smart choice, a dumb choice, an indifferent choice. I'm not stating that Sullivan made the decision, or the coach made the decision, I'm just stating that in the end... (especially when you wrestle for a team that petitioned to change divisions to win the state title) down the road when we think back regardless of what happens at states if this scenario comes up again, or the name of those involved is mentioned it will "probably" be in the context of "oh yeah, that time the 152 from Ledyard bumped away from Ford that year in states & went 60 instead". Say what you will, but I firmly believe that in the end this will be the legacy of this "strategic move" by the coaches whether we like it or not!
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old school. you are so right. CT wrestling has to realize its about the team, the coach makes the decision, not the wrestler or some parent. Ledyard & Danbury understand that, & thats why over the past 30 years they have been the most consistent programs.
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Your all missing the point...no problem to bump, but get seeded in the middle of the pack so at least they can't cake walk through the first day and push another wrestler down the seeding so he has to take the harder route.
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Ledyard coach definitely proved to everyone this weekend that he will do anything to win including encouraging the supposedly "injured" (sure looked fine later) 89lber not to continue wrestling cuz "I want the points" sorry but that really sucks in my book and cheated the 2 top ranked 189 kids out of the match they both wanted especially Bowman who is a senior i don't think all coaches would play that way but whatever
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That is a stupid comment, saying he looked fine later. He forfeited his finals match. The ability to walk and talk the rest of the day is no indication of ability to wrestle. Besides, what does that have to do with having Sullivan wrestle at a weight he weighed in at more times than not? It's a joke that there are so many people criticizing that move. It's the boneheads who think like that who cost teams big numbers of points in major competitions. Ledyard could potentially pick up 15-20 points by making that move. It's a no-brainer to wrestle him at 160. Now, to the person who suggests he should be seeded lower: You are suggesting that the entire system of seeding be revamped for one weight class (it's based on a point system). Following your logic that only matches at the weight at which you are being seeded should count, then: A) Placement points from a different weight class in previous years (aka winning 145 last year) should be stricken from the formula; B) every match a wrestler doesn't wrestle at his tournament weight should be removed from his total record (so if Shane were at 152, he would actually have fewer matches on his record); C) matches against wrestlers who are not in the specific state tournament in which the wrestler-in-question is competing should also be removed. Essentially, Shane (and all other 160's at class M) should be seeded in the following way: Only matches against other wrestlers in the class "M" tournament should count for anything. This suggestion is bad for the other wrestlers in the tournament who will get screwed because the best wrestler at the weight is now the 6th seed. That way, he knocks the 3rd seed out in the quarters just before knocking the 2nd seed out in semis. But the wrestlers could still feel good about how high they are seeded the week before the tournament happens Haha.
Anybody who criticizes weighing in Shane at 152 (like Dave Brown) has no interest in winning a team championship. I can't wait to hear people talk all about the "moral gain of wrestling against the tougher competition", while their team wrestles a full schedule of teams who haven't had a winning season in a decade. Try wrestling the majority of the top ten teams annually, then come talk about morals and wrestling. What a joke.
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I guess I have to say again that I'm not criticizing Shane at all. AGAIN, I said I understand why Ledyard is doing it because they have a legitimate shot at winning the M's...I get it. I just meant in general bumping away from competition is cowardly. Once again, I guess I should say that I'm not criticizing Shane or Ledyard at all, I've wrestled enough Ledyard kids in my day to know what they're all about...except John Gabordi lol.
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I am sorry I got a little personnel w/ you, I just hate to see any comments that degrade a wrestler, especially one I know like Shane who is one of the nicest and hard working wrestlers I know. I understand your point, I just don't agree. I have been in wrestling for years, I really don't think 99% of us will think like that, much less remember stuff like that years from now.
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The State class is anyone's game. It does not matter what weight you go or what your record was. It matters what you do at the states. Ducking is a stupid word. A person should be able to wrestle at any weight. I wrestled 3 weights my senior year, and settled in at 145. I had most of my matches @ 152. So lay off the wrestlers who bump up or down. Anyway you look at it, they need to prove themselves at any weight. If you have the desire to win, you will. Good luck to all the M wrestlers!
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Maybe attempting to win a state title is a strange concept to some teams, but anyone who knows anything about wrestling understands this move. There's a big old difference between a bump and a "duck". The point of moving Shane to 160 is to get the best wrestlers on the team in the lineup. Maybe if you're a team who (not criticizing) doesn't have much of a shot to win the tournament and you just want your one stud to win a title, then you would duck a wrestler like Ford. But the point of this move is to win the tourney. Coach Lanoue knows how to win a tournament as good as anyone else, and moving Shane to 160 is the way to do it. If you're ignorant enough to suggest that Ledyard suddenly lost interest in winning M's and just decided to get Shane a win, then you should probably adjust your look on the way the sport works.
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I wasn't going to poke my nose into this but the last post bothered me.
It doesn't matter how good your team is, if they have a shot at winning or not. It can be danbury or a one man team, no matter how you look at it people are going to assume they are ducking.
It may not be for the right reasons but people are always going to assume it. I am also sure the past L's issue won't help the cause. You can make all the reasons in the world, and some may even seem logical to most. But in the end it is going to come down to if ledyard wins or not.
It was a bold move, one that might help them get more points, most of all one that may work. But doing what they did will bring out the assumtions.
At the seeding meeting the room went silent when this came out. Like it or not I am sure it wasn't silent because everyone was impressed about the stratigic move made.LOL
I wish Shane luck, alot of added pressure has been put on him from all this. I am excited to see the battles this weekend. Good luck to all.
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Coach Fitch,
There are so many things wrong with what you just wrote, it's tough to figure out where to start. There was nothing bold about the move. Shane had more weigh-ins at 160, and their former 160 pounder weighs 145. I don't understand why you say he has added pressure, that makes no sense. The entire post actually made very little sense. Who the hell cares what other people assume? Only foolish people would assume that he was ducking Ford, because last I checked, the idea of a tournament is to score the most points. It is potentially 15-20 point plus for Ledyard to make this move. LOL. I don't care how silent the room was when it was announced. LOL. Or if it was because they were impressed with a Strategic Move. LOL. That was so funny when you said that. Btw, if the move is logical, then it's the right move whether they win or not.
I hardly even come on this site anymore, but checking the seeds for the class M tourny turned into a reading session of some of the most flawed thinking that could possibly be posted in public. Some people should have their first amendment rights revoked for what they spewed about this issue. Im not saying Ledyard will win, the odds are stacked against them. But every coach in every sport plays match-ups in order to give his or her team the best chance to win. Failure to do so is to neglect a responsibility to the athletes to put them in the best position to win.
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I have been reading these posts with a little bit of interest and for what its worth I see nothing wrong with what coach Lanoue did at all. He is, in my opinion doing what he feels is best for his team and trying to position them for a run at another M title.
Good luck to everyone this weekend in all of the Class Tournaments.
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Gabordi & Schoon,
I don't think many other people are saying there is anything "wrong" with it, but are just stating that it raised eyebrows, & also saying what they think some people may assume. As far as what Coach Fitch said about added pressure, I think that is absolutely true. People are going to be watching what he does more closely, his coaches are obviously expecting him to score the 15-20 extra points you claim he should earn because of this move, & there's gonna be a boat load of 160's in the next couple of weeks ready to send a message to him. People have noticed... get real whether you want to hear it or not people have noticed, & many have opinions. Instead of knocking someone else's observations & opinions try stating yours & leave it at that.
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I dont think that there was anything wrong with what coach fitch said. I do believe that this move does help their team. All that fitch said was that some people will assume that it is a duck even if its not.
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Bumping up in a class meet is def not a cowardly move Dave! I bumped up plenty of times in high school so does that mean i was running away from guys? If you can win an individual and team title by going up a weight than why not do it. 145 was def the hardest weight class your senior year, but thats a personal problem if you chose to stay at that weight if you knew you could be the other guys in the upper weight. Theres nothing to prove by staying in the harder weight if you dont win! I think moving shane up was the best thing for him and the team whether people think hes running away or not. Bumping a kid up is part of wrestling so people will have to deal with it if they dont like it.
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As I always say before I post, in my humble coaching opinion... Shane did not duck anyone and Coach Lanoue did exactly the right thing. His job is to put his team in the most competitively advantageous situation to win and his moves this week do EXACTLY that. On a side note, at Bacon our motto is "We not me", we agree as individuals that we are a team and do what is necessary to best support the team. To my mind, Shane has done exactly that, supported his team this week... something incidently he has done all season. I suspect the only ones questioning the motivation as "ducking" are those who do not have a competitive chance of winning their state class tournament and cannot see or value the dedication Shane and his coach have to the team. Good luck to both.
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I never said it was the wrong move, nor if it was the right one. I stated the obvious, some people are going to look at it differently.
Just because someone might not be challenging for the trophy doesn't make them less understanding. To say that makes you sound stupid. Get over yourself's. To be honest with you only about 3 teams in each class have a shot. Please don't come on hear and say they are the only ones that understand. Remember that saying act like you have been there before.
My opinion is that it will cause added pressure for Shane, but that will make it more glorious for him if he prevails.
Do you really think I let the rabbit out of the hat because I ackowledged a room went silent. Seriously, lets not go there.
I never stated my opinion about the matter, just gave an idea of how people will view it. To say you don't care what others think is great, but then don't come on here and attack other peoples opinions, especially when then think the move was a good one.:) Plus a big sacrifice for Shane come Opens and New Englands. Good luck this weekend, but hey I am not worthy because my team can't win the M's this year.LOL
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