My long time friend just bought a small 50 dollar carving and his 21 year old daughter saw it and wanted me to do an 4 foot eagle holding a fish but he wants to give me a $100.00 to do it. I see his daughter sometimes but he's the negotiator, I can't go over his head. She's a millionaire(settled a lawsuit years ago for 7-8 million).I want to charge at least $500.00 for it. What would you do?

Tell him for a hundred bucks he can have a log and use your saw.

DO NOT COMPROMISE YOUR TALENT!! Apparently your work has value, if you want to offer it as a gift is one thing but then dont let them insult your work for a hundred bucks . A freind should be made clear of this and if they are truley your freind then they will understand.

or say you're not interested. she can afford it, and if its quality work you could get that much from others. 80 percent off is a ridicoulous discount to expect and when you consider costs of making you will end up with almost no profit. i don't know you're relationship with your friend though. do you owe this friend favors and this is a collection of sorts they are expecting to recieve with a miniscule price? ultimatley if you can't negotiate a price you feel you is fair saying NO is always fair.

I had a friend I do buisness with buy a carving today

I had a sea horse $300 I knock 50 bucks off it

I have had many construction deals with him He always seems to want me
to give him deals

I may need practice but not for free

He bought it .

buisness is buisness no matter what

A real freind wont mind paying you what is fair,you have to make money to survive and your enemies arn't going to buy your product,right ?Tell them freind to freind what you really have to charge to make a living doing this.We carvers have overhead and expences just like everyone else,I think a carver should get paid for his(or her)time,talent and not to mention the risks we take every time we fire a saw or high speed power tool up,just like any other craftperson!!But that's just my opinion,do what is best for you and the ones that look to you!!
God Bless!
Johnny Roysden

As long as you're asking, here's my two-cents.

While each set of circumstances has its merits, it can be murky and hurtful to friendships when ASKED, to discount your work (where and with whom is the line drawn).

When I have a chance to visit with out-of-town guests, I've always enjoyed taking them to restaurants of friends. I want to give THEM the business.

I would never ask that they treat me like I own the place, or for freebies.

I have been fortunate (and always has been the case), that my restaurateur friends set me up with great servers, terrific food and drinks, a wonderful evening of laughs and conversations AND...we are treated as if my GUESTS owned the place.

I make it a point to thank them for their generosity and always, always, tip the staff Very Well. (it's how they all make a living ).

As for your dilemma...... While one hates to charge friends for their work, I have found....that people that don't like us, go elsewhere.

Good judgment be on your side.

to get her phone number!

Friends & money can be difficult.

I'd tell your friend that while you like to help your friends out, he's asking you to take four hundred dollars out of your pocket.

Let him know what you'd normally do for a $100 custom carving, and start there.

Also, sometimes you have to be blunt in educating people about what goes into carving. Some people have the misconception that you are just "playing" with the chainsaw.

They don't think about the associated hard costs- truck, saws, grinders, tools, fuel/oil, paint/stain, electricity, (and real business expenses for pro carvers- like rent, advertising, insurance), etc. It's not uncommon to "touch" a carving with thousands of dollars in tools.

There are also the "soft" costs as well- hundreds or thousands of hours of practice, building relationships to get quality wood, studying reference materials, trial & error, travel to events to learn new skills, etc.

Anyone with more than a few saws and power tools has thousands of dollars invested before a saw is ever fired up. Carving is an unusual technical and artistic skill. Your time, in addition to your tools, is valuable and needs to be a factor.

Your friend may get the big picture when you tell him you have $XXXX dollars invested, plus XXXX months/years of practice.

Some people also just want champagne on a beer budget, and you won't change that.

Having said all this, I'm only a hobbyist carver. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

Hey Dean. Go with a standard like "Well that's normally a 700 dollar retail carving and I will give you my standard 25% discount off for friends and family." Obviously your friend doesn't appreciate your skill. Friends should ask "how much would you charge?" not make lowball offers, that's a pretty insulting offer, friend or not.

Jokingly explain to him that if you sell $500.00 carvings for $100.00 you will need for him to let you move onto his place as you wont be able to pay the bills.
On second thought, tell him you would need his Daughters hand in Marriage to secure your future as you'll no longer be making a living at carving.

Peopel constantly try to get freebies, and take advantage of my carving talent all the time. Be it friend, family., or millionare, I just give them the you must be joking look, and then tell them what it's worth, or just blow them off, and let them keep asking for years, then when they realize that it's worth more, they iether give up, or finally buy some thing for what it's worth. When some one asks how long it takes to make a carving, I explain to them that I don't keep track, because I have to cut the tree down, harvest the wood, maintain the saws, and still sit down, and take the time to price out each carving, and I factor all that in as well. We have too many carvers giving freebies, and doing this as a favor to people, and it's making us look bad, other wise where do people who don't carve get the idea, that this is a fun, and easy thing to do???? Would you cut split, and stack some one's fire wood for free???? You'd be crazy if you answer yes....

If she's a friend and a millionare, I'd think trying to get you to carve a four foot eagle for a hundred bucks is an insult and being very cheap on her part. Seems like the people with the most money will always try to get something for nothing.

My Momma always said, "It's better to work for Free than for Cheap." If it were me, I'd give an eagle to the friend before selling it for such a small percentage of it's value.


Butch

but the way you want to, tell him you are behind and a four foot carving will get you further behind. tell them you can do a 16-18 inch tall eagle now and they can check back later if she still wants the four footer. make her become a collector of your work she has millions start her out with a nibble . her dad is the go between but when she has your work she will look to have you do more stuff and go over it with your personally. cha-ching bling bling

That was a very wise answer,that was a good solution to a couple of my own problems too,thanks!

Yea, Buzz is on that marketing thang. Negotiating can move into a step that looks like conflict, its quite normal. To stand your ground, be assertive and not esculate conflict, a guy could say, Thank you kindly for your interest, although I must stick to the market value on the 4 footer, something like that. Smile, put your hand on his shoulder and look him in the eye, like he's your best friend, or better yet, a ""fellow child of God. And your back in control.

So dean what happend?

I'll probably see him this weekend. I was thinking of telling him I'll give it to her for free if you give me my hours of work I'll put into the carving(about about 30-35) from start to finish. I want to re-do my kitchen and put a new garage door on and he's somewhat more experienced to do that because he did those things before to his house. That would probably save me about a grand or more(Home Depot wants an extra $300.00 to put on the garage door). If anything works out I'll post.

Sounds like a good idea.

I like Buzz's suggestion.

Dean, I think the trade in work is a good deal if you can make sure he comes through on his end. I would suggest that the payment of the carving be made only after the work is complete.
A potential glitch is your friend puts in all the work and the daughter changes her mind about the carving (time has a tendancy to do that), or worse, doesn't like it and/or wants something else. Your friend may also feel his work (afterward) is worth more than a 4ft carving and you'll be back to square one.

The cleanest thing to do is put the right price on the right size and it's a take it or leave it deal.

Thanks for all the great suggestions! I threw the "carving for your hours" payment plan at him today but I got a feeling he's going to balk at that idea. He didn't seem too enthusiastic.