I've never driven one of these before. It was one my son wanted to look at from Craigslist. It was quite a ways from us but I happened to be going that way for my puny little business so I volunteered to give it the preliminary look see.
It was basically stock (105k original miles) it had headers, a cold air induction mod and underpulleys. It was a 5 spd with a 3:08 rearend.
I was quite amazed. It was quick. (at least for an older guy) It is hard to imagine what it would be like with a lot of the mods we've seen listed for many we have seen advertised. Things like upgraded EFI, aftermaket heads, hot cams, 3:5? or 3:7? rear ends and all kinds of chassis mods and add-ons.
Seems they would become virtual suicide machines.
One thing is for certain though, that 5.0 is a beautiful motor. Makes me proud to be a Ford Guy.
not use to perfomance cars , even the slow one's seem fast. the older you get the faster they seem also, Don't ask why i know. so is he getting the stang ?
Great. Yep, they were pretty quick and responded very well to all the hop-up parts. Around here in Illinois, most were beat to death with huge miles and/or lots of abuse and rust! Today, they have become kinda rare except for resto cars as so many ended up literally being worn out. The 5.0's in the '85-93 Fox bodies are still feared by the Chevy crowd.
In a way, the popularity of the 5.0's made it the '57 Chevy of the 80's-90's.
I walk a fine line of not overly encouraging him to buy one v.s. hoping he does. He's only 21 but has proven to be very responsible. However he already owns a sharp Crown Vic, which he keeps in good shape and does not really need another car.
But he seems determined to get one so maybe I will tag along for a little thrill and undoubtedly a lot more reasons to engage this forum.
This message has been edited by boomyal from IP address 76.115.71.70 on Apr 24, 2009 7:58 PM
I have an 89 CVLX that was originally a 351W-VV car. I dropped a 393W into it, along with a wide-ratio AOD (4R70W guts in AOD case) and 3.55 gears. Makes for the perfect sleeper! Oh, and it's quicker than a stock 89 GT Mustang to boot! LOL!!! I'm sitting at mid-14s right now, and the car still passes emissions testing, and gets 16+ mpg.
The 5.0 in his Vic will respond well to a better breathing exhaust. You can use 5.0 Mustang shorty headers, a Mustang H-pipe and fab up some duals from there. 3.27 or 3.55 gears help too, and were the factory 'trailer tow package' gears in these cars...
There is just something timeless and elegant about their design.
Tell me about this "351W-VV" business? Also did your '89 come with Mass Air like the '89 Mustangs? Also what shorty headers did you use and do you think you can do that with the OEM speed density EFI?
Did you do any suspension mods?
Oh, and btw, it's back to the drawing board for young son's Mustang. The one I checked out for him yesterday sold this morning. I think, with patience, he can do better anyway.
So many of these cars we have looked at (mostly by ads) have been project cars by short term owners. Makes me kind of suspicous even if they have a lot of money in them. It has been my opinion from the start that he was best off finding a good clean original car.
This message has been edited by boomyal from IP address 76.115.71.70 on Apr 24, 2009 11:21 PM
The 351W-VV was the optional 'police package' engine in those years, and as such was carbureted. Many police departments wanted a carb instead of fuel injection because the crooks learned to 'bump and run' a chasing cop car to shut off it's fuel injection (in a crash, there is an inertial switch that cuts off the fuel pump as a safety measure. The VV stands for Variable Venturi. It was a two barrel carb, but a real strange one that kept a constant velocity through the carb by the use of a slide-opening venturi. Great for torque and economy, but lacking in the power department. The 5.0 was rated at 155hp, and the 351-VV was rated at 180hp.
My car has the full police package - in an LX - because it was special-ordered by the fire chief of a small town as his personal department car just before he retired. One of his town's perks was the outgoing Chief kept his 'official' car when he retired, so this guy ordered a fully decked-out Crown Vic LX (leather, cruise, premium sound stereo, etc) and specified the 5.8L police package that included bigger 11" rear brakes, heavier frame, heavy police swaybars front and rear, polyurethane bushings, engine oil cooler, aux trans cooler, 100amp alternator, etc.
Anyway, the Mustang GT shorty headers are a direct bolt-in replacement for the stock Crown Vic exhaust manifolds. Same outlet location, length and angle. The only 'problem' is the Mustang uses 2-1/4" pipe, and the Vic uses 2". On my previous '89 Marquis 5.0L, I used the stock Mustang headers (they can be found for less than $25) and I welded bigger inlet bells to the stock Marquis headpipe. Another option is to use the stock 5.0 Mustang H-pipe. The stock speed density system had no problem at all with those mods.
As for suspension mods, I haven't done any because I already have the big police swaybars. The stock Vic/Marquis front bar his hollow, but the same diameter as the solid police bar, so don't be fooled into thinking they're the same. The rear bar is a simple bolt-on. See if your son can get a set of police swaybars from a junkyard. They make a world of difference.
Great find Milo. Can't be too many of them out there in the LX form and in such good shape. I remember a neighbor, with a Grenada, had one of those VV carbs and he had nothing but trouble with it.
My son has been talking about, at least, a rear swaybar for his. That's good to know about the hollow front swaybar. What is the stock rear end ratio for his Vic? And does a 'wide ratio' AOD give a taller OD to compensate for your 3.55 rearend?
On the headers, what do you do about the O2 sensor/s? I had an '88 Grand Marquis that years ago that I replaced them/it on and I don't remember exactly but they/it were in a very difficult spot to get to.
This message has been edited by boomyal from IP address 76.115.71.70 on Apr 25, 2009 11:38 AM This message has been edited by boomyal from IP address 76.115.71.70 on Apr 25, 2009 11:30 AM This message has been edited by boomyal from IP address 76.115.71.70 on Apr 25, 2009 11:25 AM
The AOD gear ratios are 2.40, 1.47, 1.00, .67
The 4R70W ratios are 2.84, 1.55, 1.00, .70
That means that the wide ratio gear ing gives an effective First gear ratio that is 18% lower, and Second is 9% lower. The O/D ratio is 4% higher.
You son's Vic probably has either 2.73 or 3.08 gears. There should be a metal tag on one of the rear end cover bolts. The lower line of stamped numbers, next to the bolt hole will show the gear ratio. 2.73 is 2.73 open. 2L73 means 2.73 posi.
O2 sensors - when I welded the larger inlet bells to the stock Marquis catalyst/headpipe, I also welded in bungs for the O2 sensors. I located them as close to the header flange as I could, and looked where they'd have room to fit without hitting anything. If you use the Mustang H-pipe, there are bungs in that already but they're further downstream. You can get O2 sensor pigtail extensions to patch them into your Vic's factory wiring harness.
BTW, I just got back from the track where my emission-legal 393W Vic just ran a new best of 14.29 @ 95.8!
The early AOD was non computer controlled as you know. Later came the EAOD which was but still used the same gear ratios as the AOD. Next came the computer controlled 4R70W which had the wide ratio planetary set as Milo mentioned. The later 98 4R70W planetary will work in the AOD with careful mods and when I built mine I added all the good stuff from the later design including the 2" OD band. If you want more info on this I can dig up all the links I studied before my build. BTW drove it today and the tranny is perfect with the rear with the heavy Ranchero.
...can actually work on those boxes? Sure would save a ton of money as even any stock 'rebuild' of these things costs and arm and a leg.
If you have links Wayne, please post them. What do you do, find a donor trans or just buy the later parts new? Also it would seem that you might find an early AOD (hopefully for cheap) get the parts you need, work on it at your leisure, on the bench, then do the swap?
Also, while we are at it, what do you do to correct the speedo ('88 Crown Vic) when you put bigger wheels on it? I remember the old CruisOmatics and C6's had little colored gears that you swapped out where the cable hooked to the trans. I don't even know if the younguns '88 has a cable?
...can actually work on those boxes? Sure would save a ton of money as even any stock 'rebuild' of these things costs and arm and a leg.
If you have links Wayne, please post them. What do you do, find a donor trans or just buy the later parts new? Also it would seem that you might find an early AOD (hopefully for cheap) get the parts you need, work on it at your leisure, on the bench, then do the swap?
Also, while we are at it, what do you do to correct the speedo ('88 Crown Vic) when you put bigger wheels on it? I remember the old CruisOmatics and C6's had little colored gears that you swapped out where the cable hooked to the trans. I don't even know if the younguns '88 has a cable?
All I can say is yes, if you want to spend lots of time and research. Many have tried and failed because of rushing, and not realizing how clean you need to be on the build. The care taken in engine building and cleanlenes is nothing compared to an Auto that will take HP and give long service.
The 88 speedo is electric that gets it's signal via a transducer that has the plastic driven gear you remember on it, and yes different colors are different tooth counts.
Keep checking back to the post as I'll have to assemble the links in a decent order. OH, my donor box was a 90 AOD out of a Mustang, My upgraded steel drums were used pieces as was the 98 planetary. Lots of new parts also along with after market upgrades. Total cost wasn't cheap as a new TC was bought that wouldn't balloon. But I'm guessing maybe a grand in parts for a tranny that might cost double that.
Do your reading first and somewhere in those pages it mentions what years AOD not to use, I think pre 87 due to a oiling problem. Also I bought a DVD and a book, even though I've done maybe a dozen Autos over the years.
Crap I keep remembering things, The only special tools (other than what you probably have) is the piston seals installer set. About $65
Salt is for steaks-- Not roads!
Alcohol is for drinking-- Not in my fuel!
This message has been edited by wayne64 from IP address 24.184.245.5 on Apr 26, 2009 9:15 PM This message has been edited by wayne64 from IP address 24.184.245.5 on Apr 26, 2009 9:10 PM This message has been edited by wayne64 from IP address 24.184.245.5 on Apr 26, 2009 8:57 PM
It was 90 and newer that used the electrical speedo transducer. My previous '89 5.0 Grand Marquis GS and current '89 CVLX both used the regular-old mechanical speedo cable. Wife's previous '90 Marquis was electric.
One thing worth mentioning is that AOD trannies varied in their speedo gear driven-gear tooth count (machined into the output shaft). The 2.73/3.08-geared cars generally used one shaft, and the 3.27/3.55-geared cars used another (one was 7- and the other 8-tooth and I can't remember which was which tonite ;^) )
I used ALL of the recommended 'best' parts in my wide-ratio AOD. The stamped drum, mechanical diode sprag, 2" o/d band, A++ servo, Baumann (BEControls) shift kit, etc. Those above-mentioned Lincolns-online links have a wealth of info. Be advised that AODs use lip-style clutch pack piston seals and those are a PITA to install without the proper tools.
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