I've been following Danfords build - I'm putting together something somewhat similar for a ranger pick up.
However - instead of a retrofit roller into an older block with DOOE W heads, I'm starting off with an '87 HO roller cam 302 and E7TE heads
(I have 68 289 heads, and DOOE W heads but both need rebuilding and I'm trying to stay cheap and simple with this build)
Is the max lift for stock roller cam heads (E7TE) 0.500" ???
I couldn't find any additional info with the search, or in the FAQ. I've been around the clevo and FE forums - so I know this is the best place to ask!
I'm a bit confused by the fact that all of the ford racing cams are matched duration and lift intake and exhaust.
You'd think Ford Racing would know more than anyone about these engines, however, with the small exhaust ports - wouldn't a cam with more lift / duration on the exhaust side make sense?
I have a B303 cam, but I'm hoping for a bit more than that with this street strip build.
If I'm going to have to buy springs anyway - I might go a touch bigger with the cam.
Here's the rest of the build specs:
302 HO TRW forged piston short block - good rod bolts, new rings/bearings.
E7TE heads home ported to remove exhaust bump, port matched, stock valves hand lapped, new seals
performer intake with spacer (unless I can find an RPM / RPM airgap cheap soon)
4777 holley carb
duraspark distributor
shorty headers
AOD with 2.84 first gear ratio gear set
TCI streetfighter converter
8.8 axle with rebuilt traclock 4.10 gears
G60-15 M/T DOT cheater slicks
Street / strip application - I will have taller all season street tires for highway use.
John
Milner351@comcast.net
This message has been edited by milner351 from IP address 136.1.1.101 on Sep 22, 2009 8:02 AM
Often one will hear that .060 is the minimum between coils yet many intentionally run much closer to minimize harmonics at high rpm. This is likely not an issue unless it's a 7,000 rpm + race engine. I'd run down to about .030 but no less. Usually much more important (with your over .500 lift Lunati) is that neither the keepers or retainer touch the valve seal or top the the guide at max lift. I agree that with careful checking the .512 lift cam should work just fine.
Standard Abrasives has about the best kit available although by now Summit, Jeg's etc, may have copied the parts list and offer same for less. The S-A website btw is a great one to save for home porting heads.
Dual pattern cams have more exhaust timing to cover problems with weak exhaust ports/system that are especially obvious in SBF's. Single pattern cams like virtually all the cams Ford sells (385, FE, SBF) do produce more low end torque than a similar dual pattern cam at the expense of top end hp.
It's a mystery to me too why Ford didn't do the split for the those three very popular steel roller cams. One answer may be that with so many cam grinders, Ford didn't feel the need to compete with them and therefore keep the selections simple. Using one or the other mainly depends on just what kind of racing/performance usage the engine is designed for, head efficiency and exhaust flow, and other factors.
I'm sure many have varied opinions here but, if you're looking to maximize low end torque, I'd go single pattern. If better mid range and top end is desired, go dual. SBF's especially due to small exhaust ports and generally poor intake to exhaust flow can really wake up with a good dual pattern cam.
This message has been edited by machoneman from IP address 67.176.173.151 on Sep 22, 2009 10:39 AM This message has been edited by machoneman from IP address 67.176.173.151 on Sep 22, 2009 10:14 AM
That crane info is excellent - I wonder if they intend to keep the auto cam business intact or if they are going to go all Harley stuff now.
I agree with the dual pattern idea... especially since my budget will not allow for good aluminum heads for this engine.
I have asked a few people I know at Ford Racing - if I get any kind of informative reply - I will let you know.
I don't have an exotic engine here - just a backyard built small block ford that will be carefully assembled with good rod bolts. I hope that -like my '90 mustang with the same engine- it will be durable under a fair amount of abuse and pull hard up to 6000rpm or so.
I work at Ford and would be happy to support the home team, as long as I can get an explanation as to the design of those fabled 303 cams.
Crane Cams as we knew it is a goner as noted in various recent auto publications and business periodicals. Staff left go from the Hallandale, FL site, machinery moved out, etc. Seems that the buyer will only do bike engine parts now.
Good if a few people at Ford Racing can provide their side of the story. It will likely have a lot to do with overall streetability. Face it, a hydro roller cam with Ford lifters, spyder, link bars is rpm limited to about 6K or a bit beyond anyway due to a heavy valve train and the max hp curve of the grinds coming it at that rpm too. They likely long ago decided that giving up any low end torque with a dual pattern wasn't what most wanted. And for many they were correct as Ford Racing did sell a ton of the B series cams in the 5.0's heyday years.
Think of it this way too: a single plane intake on the street also gives up much low hp (in stock bore stroke 302's and 351's, big strokers not included) compared to a dual plane yet almost always add a fair amount of top end hp. Depends on one's needs.
here's the link to the ford racing catalogue page on the 303 cams:
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=2029
looks like the cam in the one engine I bought is still the stock HO cam:
3) Stock 5.0L HO cam advertised specs are 266°/266° duration, 0.444"/0.444" lift
I measured that lift almost exactly - and came up with 215/222 at .050 duration using the degree wheel and dial indicator.
I like a few of the Lunati grinds - Voodoo 61011 : 221/229 .549"/.565.
Check out the Trick-Flow valve spring, retainer shim kit for the Ford iron heads. You get all the necessary stuff including seals to give you some extra space for cam changes for under 150 bucks. I recall about .540 lift being the max. Also, re the split cams, you can mix rockers to make a difference there as well. 1.6 on the intakes and 1.7 on ex seems to work for some of the guys racing carbureted Mustangs with letter cams.
-those mid .550+ cams sound great but one really should max. port those E7's to take advantage of the higher lift and improved duration.
-still believe that unless one is really bucks down, a better bet is to purchase even a good used set of alum. SBF heads as just about any aftermarket head (TFS, Canfield, World, Edel-B, Holley, etc.) is vastly superior to stock E7's and many are also quite a bit better in unported condition than even a heavily ported E7. Ported, those aftermarket heads will bury any E7 headed engine.
-that said, the Ford V-8 Explorer steel GT-40 or steel GT-40P heads are also an alternative and quite often junkyard available for a song ($150-$200 pair) and offer a much better starting point.
Gee, after re-reading this one might guess I'm not a fan of E7's!
This message has been edited by machoneman from IP address 67.176.173.151 on Sep 22, 2009 2:22 PM This message has been edited by machoneman from IP address 67.176.173.151 on Sep 22, 2009 1:40 PM This message has been edited by machoneman from IP address 67.176.173.151 on Sep 22, 2009 1:36 PM
Well -
I talked to the Ford Racing techline yesterday.
His explanation of the matched spec intake / exhaust 303 series cams makes sense.
The E6/7 castings - while nothing compared to all that's available in the aftermarket now - are far better starting points than the older "peanut" 302 factory castings. They have a much higher percentage of exhaust flow to intake flow. Therefore - a single pattern camshaft makes more power across a broader rpm range "more area under the curve" than a dual pattern camshaft with these heads.
The aftermarket heads are all flowing monsters compared to even well ported E7's - but this really is a bucks down build on an engine going into a truck that I may very well end up selling the coming year or so - I've been tempted to sell it twice already - in favor of something older and cooler that had crossed my path (a 66 fairlane, and a 64 ranchero come to mind)
S0 - I can't justify $1000 for good heads for this build. I know there are $600 sets on ebay - but I'm doubting the casting and machining quality of those units. Knowing that a quality machine shop charges $200 plus for a good valve job, I don't understand how anything of quality could be sold complete for $600. I've purchased used twisted wedge heads in the past and was burnt - I will never buy used heads again with out a valve spring compressor in hand to check valve / guide clearance.... those twisted wedge heads cost me more to have new valves and guides installed with new springs to match the cam I was running - so I could have bought new and been ahead. Live and learn.
X303 cam and the TFS spring kit with springs, retainers, locks, seals, shims, etc, for $133 is on the way!
I may have to fly cut the intake valve pocket in the stock TRW pistons - but the Ford Racing techline gent could not tell me how much to cut... I've asked the machine shop.
The engine is mostly built, just waiting on a few bits to get it completed.
I followed the porting guidelines on the link to diyporting.com - I don't have access to a flow bench to confirm any improvements, but judging from the website - I think we did a pretty good job.
We also cut the heads .035" to increase compression.
The piston to valve clearance came out to near .060" on the intake side - much more on the exhaust.
This assumes a .040" gasket thickness.
We measured near .020" with no gasket.
The felpro gasket I used was .052" out of the box.
I purchased an rpm airgap copy intake from ebay, and a set of summit's SN95 shorty headers.
Hope to get it assembled and running in the next few weeks.
- Can someone explain the differences between the 302 duraspark distributor, and the "5.0 era" electronic distributor?
I plan on running duraspark to trigger the MSD6AL, and was going to swap the gear from the 5.0 onto the duraspark, but the shaft of the 5.0 is longer (goes further onto the oil pump driveshaft?)
and the bushing above the gear, under the body of the distributor is also quite a bit different...???
.060 intake clearance is mighty, mighty tight for a streeter. One could get way with that on a max effort race engine but I wouldn't go there on any engine that isn't torn down quite regularly. If the cam was installed advanced, one could retard it a few degrees to regain more intake clearance. Still, it would need -2 to -3 degrees or so IMHO to have a large enough impact on gaining more intake v-p clearance. That or use a cutter on the pistons.
You should check the diameter of that shaft before swapping out the gear. Hear a few stories about that. Also if you need one, you can buy a steel distributor gear for the roller cam from http://www.gefracing.com for 20 bucks new. Fits the half inch shaft.