George, please don't leave mate! If it means anything to you, I'd rather read your ramblings than anyone else's on here.. I get what you are saying, and like you I'm more interested in how a car performs and runs in the real world than how it theoretically does. Sure the world has moved on with head designs and everything else that goes with it, that doesn't mean the iron 4v isn't an awesome combination still. I can tell you that as an Australian who has purchased two sets of Alloy Cleveland cylinder heads, I would have bought Iron 4v's in a heartbeat if they were economically priced over here. Don't get me wrong I like my CHI and AFD heads, but nothing impresses me more than seeing something that was designed and built in the 60's and 70's hammer tha latest technology. It amuses me more and more when I read of people who keep coming up with the 'ultimate' combination based on a 40 year old 2 valve pushrod engine, when in reality the days of Naturally aspirated engines being the ultimate are long gone. Having to stroke engines is the same, why not put a bigblock in the car if cubes are the ultimate? Engines have to be matched with Chassis's and real gearboxes too Occasionally, rather than having something where you just hold the thing flat and sit there like a wedgewood duck while it does it's thing. That might interest some of you (and there is nothing wrong with that) but it doesn't interest me, or many others either for that matter. There is enough room on here for all of us!. I respect Dan's knowledge and information as much as anyone, but it's not the only way. Shooting people's idea's and experience down in the manner that has been done in this thread is damn ordinary in my opinion. Ultimately, the results that have been achieved with iron Cleveland heads is why we are all Cleveland fans in the first place, don't lose sight of that. Get back out of the saddle George, we need you here, the injun's are a comin'