Power steering pump removal, how do you hook up the water pump belt ???
August 23 2005 at 7:08 PM
(Login danford1) Members from IP address 68.61.148.169
When removing a power steering pump set up with V belts, How do you hook up a belt to turn the water pump? Is there a special eliminator bracket or dummy pulley set up?
What is the cheapest way to do this. I'm broke...........again.........
This subject had to come up in the past but I could'nt find it.
This is on a 302 (late 70's vintage) with V belts, Just has an alternator on passenger side and a water pump with no way to hook a V belt up to it. The lower crank pulley has 4 spaces for belts though.
The car is a 67 Mustang with No power steering, no power brakes, no air, no smog pump, nothing ! It just needs a water pump idler pulley set up for a V belt.
Please spew forth your knowledge and solutions to this problem.
Thanks
your missing the Pulley for the Water Pump normally on my cars it is shared with the Alternator basicly goto a junk yard and look at other 351c and you will see there is something suppost to be bolted to the water pump snout and viola a belt goes around it your just missing some shit
I'm trying to visualize what you had. One belt was attached to the crank, the water pump and the power steering. The second belt ran the alternator off of the water pump. Is that right?
Lack of funds negates serpentine setups and $200 custom pulley setups. What if you had just the right size belt to go around the crank and the water pump (have to take the water pump pulley off each time) and then ran the second pulley as is?
Here is what I have.
I have a multi groove crank pulley. A single groove water pump pulley and a single groove Alt pulley. One belt goes from crank to alt, that is it. The water pump pulley is behind the alt belt. It cannot be spaced out to line up because the wp pulley will hit the crank pulley. I need a new wp pulley and new crank pulley that have the same offset as the alt.
There was a set of single groove pulleys on ebay a couple months ago that are exactly what I need. They were from a 70's car without power steering.
I have the two part numbers now (just got them) they are C9OE-8A528-E and D0OE-6312-A (D zero, Oh E). One is supposed to be for a Boss 302.
I can't just go to a junk yard and look because non around here have 70's cars in them, they were scrapped years ago
Can you guys check your pulley piles and see if you have these numbers in them?
I used the v-belt adjustment arm from any 351M or 400 air conditioning, a alternator adjustment arm, and made a bushing for spacer (goes between the alternator and air conditioning arms). The air conditioning arm bolts back on in the same place of where it came off. I hope you can understand my instructions.
The correct way is to change the crankshaft and water pump pullies.
Anyway, I think the small belt idea would still work if you could find the right size. Don't Vdubs work like that? No tensioner, and the pulley was in two halves. The Continental 10 x 930 or something had just the right amount of tension when the pulley bolts were tightened. Sizes today are metric and 30mm is about an inch if that helps.
i have a single groove pulley on my WP that lines up with the ALT, the PS runs off the crank by itself. no idea where the single WP pulley came from, i had two stacks of pulleys and that one was the best deal to run a single belt w/o the PS. could,ve been off anything! FORD, AMC, ??? i'd say go junkin, would a double groove ALT pulley get you goin?
Danford1,
Do a serach on Chris K's and mine V-belt conversion to K-5. At five bucks a pulley at the U-Pull It, you can do this with a trip to the Bone Yard. In this case, you just need the three pulleys and your set.
All the details are in the old post's. Take a look. Just make sure you find the large OD Alt pulley if you plan to rev it. Let me know if you need more info....
I love the serpentine set up ! Any idea what that came off of? It seems like finding a grooved water pump pulley would be the hard part.
The junk yards around here don't have what I need. Anyone live close to a junk yard with the serp parts?
I checked allclassicmustang.com and the prices are way to high for me. $85 for one and $95 for the other !
I know pulleys are like $5 or $10 each at all the swap meets I've been to. I just didn't know what I needed till now. Which is either the single groove V belt set up or the nice serp set up pictured.
The BIG problem is I need this stuff now and don't have either!
Would anyone care to sell me their pulley set up? Then if you live near wrecking yards, you could replace the parts. I don't have any good wrecking yards around me.
when I want to remove the PS pump from the car the WP doesn't have a way to be turned either. One method would be what the guys above said. The other is an old trick that works great. I simply select a V-belt that goes around just the crank and WP. The trick is getting it on. You could either remove the pullies and set up the alt belt (dangling) and then thread the WP pulley bolts + crank bolts together so you walk the pair on -- or you couldtry walking the belt on by bumping the starter. I do both...works great.
All of my engine dyno runs are done this way and there is no provision for PS on the dyno.
I went to the closest bone yard to work and looked around. I found a 79 Lincoln Town Car with a 5.0L. The pulleys look like the pictures above.
They wouldn't go less than $20, so I took a gamble I can make them work and spent the $20.
If not, I'll try to Ebay them and get back some of the money.
Good to hear - The multigroved belts are much easier to measure and hit a homerun. Just drop a string in the groves and measure with the alt favorable place and you should be OK.
If you can find an 80's Aerostar w/AC, they have the larger Alt pulley and that will help keep the R's down. You can also look at dodge and chev parts Alt's. They all seem to use the same diameter shaft. It just takes time to save money.
Oh - as for shimming the Alt out, the Alt's all have spcers under the pulley/fan. Yank a couple apart and pile them up till you hit 0.140" and your belts should line up without adding space under the brackets.
Let us know how it goes.
Later....
/ra
This message has been edited by 73sport from IP address 71.111.35.208 on Aug 25, 2005 10:28 PM
I added two washers behind the bracket that bolts to the water pump. I added 2 washers behind the long alternator spacer. Everything looks dead on !
I then loosened the alt and adjusted as far as it would go down on the slotted bracket. I moved it up about 1/8" and locked it down. I had a long 6 rib serp belt and cut it in two. I wraped it around the lips of all pulleys indicating min length required to slip belt on. I cut the belt to that length. I then dropped belt into grooves and swung the alt up to see if I had enough tightening room. I did no problem.
I measured cut length of belt and got 42 1/2" . I'll go look for a 6 rib belt 42 1/2" long today.
This is just to friggin nice. I'll be doing this from now on. The engine I did this to is a 302. I'll take the set up to a spare Clevo I have and see if it all bolts up and lines up as nice. If it does, I'll hit the junk yard and get a couple more pulleys and convert my Clevo in my 68 Mustang.
The serp set up is way cleaner than the two V belt with idler pulley set up I have in my car now.
Danford1 I've got your answer (I'll send pics if you'd like)
August 26 2005, 12:17 PM
I have 2 of the single water pump pullys (I think they were from the orig 289, but maybe from something else. Anyhow, drill out the wlds that hold the face on, cut the pully face on a buddys lathe and weld back together (straight). 3 hours work and I have a pully that's .030 off, so I may do it again on the other pice that found. I with I had the exact spec that I cut off but it was about 1/4"??
I have so much more time than money, that I've never used the March set up, but they're supposed to be the answer.
Joe
Here is a link to pictures of the set up on a 302 and one not so great picture of the same set up on a Clevo !
It WILL fit a Clevo but the alt needs to be shimmed farther forward than the 302.The same belt, 42 1/2" long works on both engines.
Click here http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dstolarc/album?.dir=/57b8&.src=ph&.tok=phgXjhDB8dlwubrW
The Clevo picture is the one in the car.
Cheers
Danford1
I also run it on my C. Don't know why more people don't. You can even run it with power steering (on a 2nd belt). Seems all the big full size cars from the '80s used these pulleys. Mine only cost like $35 with a good alt and the p/s pulley (they are plastic) and came off an '86 Lincoln Town Car.
Tom Custom (Premier Login 58custom) Forum Owner 69.235.153.95
This serpentine solution is so cool.
August 27 2005, 7:09 AM
So is the larger alt pulley tip. Since all of this has come up again, and this time it's all in one thread, I have placed a link to this thread in the links section.
All,
As a basic sanity check, I would suggest you also place a straight edge across each of the pulleys outer edges once the belts are on and have tension on them. Doing this should give a clear visual indicator of the alignment.
The goal here is to point the straight edge in the same path as the belts. In doing so, your straight edge should be parallel with the belt until it reaches its destination. Any deviation means they are not in aligment and something needs to be moved.
See below....
