(Login hardbopper) Members from IP address 66.56.80.51
Gentlemen (and Stang girl,if you're out there):
I need to know how to do motor mounts for a standard 400 into a 69 Mustang. The car had a 302 w/C4...getting 400 and C6.
I keep reading "fabricate". I need to know how to do it right, in order to make it look factory pro. Needs to be strong and tight with no vibes.
Will I need to "fabricate" insulators as well? Are insulators rubber?
Do y'all think I could find someone to make some really good ones for me?
Please explain...and remember, I'm not a professional mechanic.
ford429cjlover (Login ford429cjlover) Members 66.82.9.83
Is this a smart move?
January 30 2006, 6:41 AM
Guys,
Don't mean to hijack your tread, but I'd like some opinions from those with more experience than myself.
Does it make more sense to build a 400M or a 392 clevor? Assuming the two engines were built to similar specs ( same compression ratio, same type of heads, equivalent intakes, carbs and cams ) would they produce similar power outputs? How does the 400M hold up as a performance engine? What would be the difference in weight between the two engine?
Is there any reason one build just makes more sense than the other? Thanks in advance.
with doing this swap for a couple of reasons.
1. 400 is the most displacement/$ because of their availability. I can find complete builders with trans attached in towable/driveable cars fairly easily. (When I first bought the car, I was figuring on building a 460CJ or PI motor. If a 429/460 would fit without cuttin nuttin and clear a front sway bar, that would be the ticket.)
2. Smooth and quiet low RPM power. Not building a race car. I figure with a little cam, a little compression, a 4-holer and dual exhaust, and the 400 pony will make a nice weekend touring car, good for Colorado mountains.
Yes, I presume a Clevor or 3514V would out rev a 400 with ease.
I think it's a smart move - for the right application. After doing some test fits into our 70 Mustang - I decided that it's just not worth the hassle. For a lot less cash I could have a nice 351C in there without the problems of header clearance, mount fabrication, bellhousing and converter issues, etc. The 400 only has an issue with the piston deck height, but if you're building a performance engine and especially if you're using 4 bbl closed heads and want to run pump gas, you'll be buying custom pistons anyway. As for performance - we'll there's a 800HP or so 400 running in a puller over on the ford trucks list.
In a more direct answer to the original poster - look at mounts for 75ish Elite or maybe LTD. These have "ears" similar to the lower part of the small block mount, so you could likely section a set of Mustang frame mounts to mate with them. I have some pics somewhere - if I locate them in the next couple of days I'll post, that'll give you an idea.
John Bednorz (Login 73QCodeVert) Members 198.246.249.35
I thought that a 400 would not fit between the shock towers?
January 30 2006, 11:00 AM
From prior posts on this forum I was given to understand that a 400 will not fit between the shock towers of a 67-70 Mustang. At least, not with any type of exhaust on it.
I wish I coulda been there for the test fit. That's really the only way to learn...just git in an git buzy! I am looking forward to the pics.
John raises some questions which maybe you can answer. I'll add some questions too.
Width of tall deck make problems with shock towers? How about power brake booster?
Do you think factory air will fit under hood?
There was a header thread here a couple days ago. I figured that if Hooker SuperComps hang too low on a 351, they might be just right on a 400. What do you think? Or what about factory Cleve exhaust manifolds?
I figured trans tunnel wouldn't be a problem if the Boss 429 fit. How bout 400?
Probably not the best, but something to spark interest. It was a quick and dirty test fit, just before the 302 and trans went back in. I now have a C4 with the big bell, so I would like to do another sometime in the future. Probably when the Falcon motor comes out for refresh.
If someone wanted to go to the trouble of doing the shock tower mods that are available it would be much easier to make it fit but at that point you might as well drop a 429 or 460 in there.
you even have to modify the shock towers to install the 429/460. That is if you use the specialty mounts and headers made specifically for this swap. I would not use a 400. It is too heavy and too limited in available speed parts. My suggestion is to stick with a 351 stroker combo or go to the pre-72 429/460.
The 400 weighs less than 50 lbs more than a 351C, I would think. In full iron. 575~600 I'd guess, based on a 351C at about 550. A 460 in iron is almost 700. The only other adap needed is the intake, everything 351C bolts on. The 385 series does fit without cutting the shock towers, but most of the headers available route the front tube under the suspension, resulting in very little ground clearance. One "trick" I've seen is to move the firewall and slide the motor back, more to gain clearance for the water pump and radiator than anything else. I've seen a 460 in a 66 Falcon with stock exhaust manifolds. Firewall was hacked, but nothing in the engine compartment was modified.
A 390/428/etc fits on stock FE motor mounts from a Fairlane. The 66 up Falcon has the exact same engine compartment as a 67-70 Fairlane. The Mustang is very similar but has slightly different frame rails.
After all that, the 31C strcker saves many hassles - it's a drop in and go.
Thanks for this info...I have often wondered about all the "heavy" talk. Since we are basically talking about an additional inch in deck height...how much more could it weigh? If I remember right, the 400 weighs about the same as a SBC - no one complains about those pounds.
Brad
what are you guys talking about. a 429 460 fits in a 67 up mustang and cougar without any frame or shocktower cutting. i have done this swap many times,hell they make the headers for the swap. the only engines that dont fit in those cars are boss 429,s and 427 sohc.
The place that the 400 bites ya in the ass is the hieght of the carb pad.
By the time you install intake spacers (3/4" to 1") to a block that is all ready an inch taller than a 351C, even with a stock 4v intake or low riser like an offy, you are around 2" higher. Which in my case, puts me thru the hood. That is why my 400FMX block is in the Bronco and a 351C remains in the Cobra.
My Cobra with the 21" oval air cleaner has 3/16" between the top and the bottom of the hood. 351C -Blue thunder intake 750 dominator carb. No spacers.
With my Ford single plane 4500 intake, I had around 3/4" clearance.
I had thought about dropping the block an inch to help both the hood clearance and the side dump headers, but I'm still around an inch too high.
I'll just wait and get one of Tod's blox and stroke and bore it to 427 and save the hassles. But if you have the room or hoodscoop let the 400 rip, the 68 Bronco's almost scary to drive!
Just my 2 cents.
By the way does anyone have the exact weight of a 400 block and crank as they are the only 2 parts ddifferent than a 351C (longer rods too)
blizz
I put the 400 in my 73 cougar and had tons of room,the 69's are a little narrower but then again look at a 428 those are nasty in that bay.The carb has lots of room without a spacer but it is tight with anything more than 1 inch.I did have a little trouble with headers the passenger side fit fine but the drivers was tight around the power steering box so had to make up one for that side.Anyhow good luck and keep us posted.
Steve
