<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Cleveland cooling schematic?

April 3 2007 at 5:03 AM
Sportsroof  (Login sportsroof)
Members
from IP address 212.219.8.29

Can anyone point me to a schematic of the Cleveland cooling system, I have some cooling issues despite a custom built 4 row rad, which I now believe are caused by the brass restrictor in the block and the lack of Cleveland-specific thermostat.
Is it OK to block/restrict the brass ring? Strang thing I found over the weekend was that with no thermostat, the engine ran around 150 when driving around 40-60mph, but if I thrashed it for a few miles, the temp dropped to 110 or so. Since then I have found out about the Cleveland-specific thermostat issue and as I don't have time to get one here in the UK, I plan to block or restrict the brass ring to force water through the radiator instead of recirculating to the block. I read that the heater system will act as a bypass for the system when the 'stat is closed. Am I barking up the right tree or just barking? First race is in less than 2 weeks and I cannot afford to cook this engine during the 15 minute thrash of a race.
Cheers, Martin

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply


(Login gpence)
Members
134.201.253.22

Re: Cleveland cooling schematic?

April 3 2007, 2:03 PM 

When a motor is cold & the thermostat blocks coolant flow to the radiator, there must be a way to recirculate coolant from the block back to the water pump suction, if not then the water pump would be pumping against a "dead-head", the engine will not warm up uniformly, and steam pockets would form in the coolant passages of the cylinder heads.

Most engines have a small hose that routes a small amount of coolant from below the thermostat into the water pump. This recirculated coolant is flowing through this hose all of the time even when the motor reaches operating temperature, there is no way to shut it off, so the flow rate of coolant that flows through the hose must be kept low, or else the motor would have over heating problems when it is warm.

With the Cleveland Ford was able to allow a large amount of coolant to recirculate when the motor is cold, because the thermostat restricts (controls) the recirculation when the motor reaches operating temperature. The coolant flows through a passage beneath the brass restrictor right back into the water pump. Increasing the recirculation of coolant during warm up promotes more uniform warm up of the engine, and prevents steam pockets from developing in the heads.

If you block this passage, you have blocked the motor's only provision for recirculation during warm up, unless as you have suggested, you use the heater core as a path for coolant to recirculate from the block back into the water pump. This will work OK as long as you remember to turn the heater on each time you start the car.

On the other hand, if the Cleveland's recirculation passage is not restricted when the motor is warm, it often leads to overheating, as it diverts a generous amount of coolant away from the radiator. So in lieu of the proper thermostat, your plan of attack seems to be a good one.

George



    
This message has been edited by gpence from IP address 134.201.253.22 on Apr 3, 2007 2:07 PM


 
 Respond to this message   


(Login tinman351)
Members
68.253.137.114

Re: Cleveland cooling schematic?

April 3 2007, 7:20 PM 

here's a few threads i've posted a solution to the missing plate to,

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1129393381/

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1138487663/

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1170725259/







"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm" ~ James Madison

 
 Respond to this message   
Sportsroof
(Login sportsroof)
Members
212.219.8.29

Thanks!

April 4 2007, 12:29 AM 

Thanks guys, just the info I was after. Tested it last night and it seems cooler and better. It always helps to know more about the system you are dealing with.
Cheers, Martin

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login AdrianXD)
Members
218.103.217.239

Great post.....few Q's.

August 6 2007, 8:46 AM 

Hey, thanks for that post. That was one of the most inofrmative threads on cooling I've read for the cleveland. Cool scan of that book too. I'd love an older book like that.

I'm about to plug that recirculation hole on the block face and use a CSR electric pump for a Windsor, on my Clevo. But as you mentioned, without any circulation and to avoid hot pockets on start up, would a small hole in the thermostat allow sufficient circulation back to the radiator for this purpose?

So blocking the hole in the front of the block makes the thermostat blockoff hole redundant and no longer required?

Also, I've been experiencing some weird temp spikes when I hammer it thru the gears. Revving up to about 6000-7000 with a stock style aluminium mechanical pump, I get rapid temp spikes of about 20* within a few seconds....I know it's going to be producing more heat, but with these rapid spikes, do you think that's caused more from pump cavitiation and a breakdown in water flow? I've blocked the holes in the block and water pump which are used for the heater hoses.

I've also had the block grout filled for strength.

WRT the cleveland water flow direction......where it enter the 2 holes in the block from the pump....does it run to the back of the block, then heads and back out the thermostat housing? or does it start mixing thru the block/heads straight away?

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Falcon67)
Members
65.182.95.67

WPs

August 6 2007, 8:58 AM 

I've run FlowKooler pumps and I see temp spikes with those at RPMs over 5K. That's expected and I assume it's due to pump cavitation. Temp returns to normal quick on the return road. I was planning on a Meziere pump for the new engine and the plan was to drill 4-6 1/8" holes around the t-stat for recirculation because everything else will be blocked or plugged. It'll be a while before I know - the bucks for the Meziere just went to put a fuel cell in the Mustang because the stock tank started dripping fuel in the shop over the weekend. The tank is shot, so I'll upgrade her car instead. It'll be safer.

If you look at a head gasket, water is on the Fords is encouraged to travel to the back of the block, then forward through the heads.

1967 Falcon 4 door w/351C

http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod
Owner built, owner abused.

 
 Respond to this message   
Current Topic - Cleveland cooling schematic?
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index