Brian (Login zombiesarebad) Member from IP address 76.179.223.7
hi again guys. I posted a while ago looking for advice on a budget build for the 2v motor in my 70 Cougar, and got some good but not very specific ideas on what to do. No doubt because my questions weren't very specific. Now that I'm closer to pulling the trigger on this thing, I'm forced to realize that my budget isn't what I hoped it would be. So, I'm wondering: given the modest budget of $3500, how would you build it? I'm looking to do a street build with the torque to compensate for some good cruising gears, c6 auto... redline about 6k maybe? It'll see occasional strip duty (on street tires) but i realize that the bruiser i'd hoped to build is not in my near future. I'm leaning toward 4v OC or quench heads with 4" stroke as a starting point???
On the other hand, I can get an already assembled std short block for real cheap (300 or so)... maybe putting most of the money into the top end would be more worth it? I don't know.
This message has been edited by zombiesarebad from IP address 76.179.223.7 on Jan 23, 2012 8:08 PM
I may be biased because it's what I do for a living...
January 24 2012, 3:52 AM
...but I would be leery of a $300 assembled short block. You never know who did the work, if they did half the things that they were supposed to, etc.
I'm not saying that you have to go all out with the stroker kit, etc., but if you did snag one of those cheap short blocks, I would tear it down and start from square one, just for your money's sake.
You'll have to use a lot of factory parts with a $3500 budget. A stroker kit, even a cast one, will eat up over half that.
Personally, I would find a cheap complete core, then have the block machined as a good foundation...use some CC 4V heads, do what machine work you need to, throw a nice cam in it, good intake and carb, and you'll have a nice solid performer.
Or maybe start with a 400 core...you can turn the wick up on those as well.
is this just a factory std block that's been sitting?
stock cranks are good to 6000 rpm no problem
stock rods with new rod nuts are good to 6000 rpm no problem
my only question would be what pistons, rings & bearings are in it and how much cylinder wear/taper there is?
it doesn't cost anything to measure clearances, pull it down, wash it off & lube it up. rent a ball hone, buy a rear main seal and dab of silicone for under the rear main cap won't break the bank and you're at the same starting point as many rodders since late 1969
the short block i speak of is something that my engine builder friend put together years ago and never used. I know him well and i'm not concerned about the quality of it, although I am still leaning toward a stroker.
Another question. Given that I'm shooting for a max rpm in the neighborhood of 6000 and plenty of low-end with a peak hp of 450-ish... would i benefit from a pair of 4v heads or could i do just as well to work over my 2v's?
Now understand I'm no pro builder, but I would consider myself at least average. I have a 70 Cougar
it weighs 3720 with me in it. It is not fast but it will do a 13.1 at 106 at the stip.[ thats with 4.30 gears] How much power does it make I dont know. But it feels very nice on the street. Almost makes enough vaccum for my brakes, and sounds respectable. This is done with stock stroke 30 over, ported 2v heads, rpm intake,770 holley vac secondary carb, hooker headers, 282s comp cams, and about
9.7 compression. I shift at 5800. Its not very fancy but it is very fun. As a side note the ford manual says a 70 2v will have 9.5 comp. When I measured mine it was about 7.5. I bought some KB small dome pistons to get the compression up. It was cheaper than milling everthing else down.
I havent added my all my costs together but I,m well south of 3500. Food for thought.
Cut the heads to 74cc, redid all guilds, replaced the valves/springs/retainers/etc (matched to cam requirements), home port job, 226/230 cam, TRW forged pistons, moly rings, stock rods, good bolts, ARP studs everywhere they could be used. Block went .030 and was decked to put the pistons at zero. It runs a funnelweb now but started with a Weiand Xcelerator, 4 hole spacer, $40 swap meet 650DP. It makes a solid 380+ here, more closer to sea level. In a 3000 lb Mustang at Dallas Raceway, the car is quick enough to require a cage and wearing a fire jacket.
It would be nice to use 4v heads I think preferably with the studs with rockers so you can utilize more cam lift. I'm not sure how much lift you can go with pedastal rockers but spring pressure is limited. I think for 400 plus hp you will need 10.5 cr stock 4v heads or massaged 2v and a cam comparable to a f-246 crane. A 750 or bigger carb and good intake Some one on here will know the limits of the pedestals or maybe Falcon has a idea his combos are working good. I think without any serious head work you can meet your goal quite easily. George may have a 4v combo that's budget friendly ?
Our 2V makes that at 9.5:1. The 650Dp is a fine all around carb, good to well over 500HP. It is better to cut the heads for screw in studs, but I used the Crane conversion kit on the engine described. Cutting heads here is around $250 - 351C requires two setups to cut on a mill, so it usually costs twice what a SBF head would cost.
I ran the above combo and the engine made around 425 hp but then again we usually have 4000ft air(according to pocket dyno).If you have the 2v heads already follow Falcons advice should work great.
the guy building the engine came up with this for me, to fit my requirements of $3500-4000 budget, enough torque to run in the 12's with stock gears (3.50?), run on 91 octane and shift around 6000:
393 displacement with cast crank and rods w/ forged pistons, Performer RPM cam (.562/.588 and 312/322 duration if i remember right), RPM air gap intake, Pro Comp Avenger heads (never heard of these), and an Edelbrock 750 carb.
Just wanted a second opinion on this build before I go ahead and spend the money.
is a CNC'd Pro-Comp. IIRC the chambers and the ports are CNC'd, the chambers being important because Pro-Comp left a lot of material in the chambers causing the valves to be 'low'
the CNC work might even come close to fixing them ?
but have you looked into Scott Cook's new top end system?
betchya $2 you guy is not aware of them
there'll be phantoms, there'll be fires on the road... and the white man dancing
This message has been edited by tinman351 from IP address 69.246.218.44 on Jan 27, 2012 2:18 PM This message has been edited by tinman351 from IP address 69.246.218.44 on Jan 27, 2012 2:14 PM
That combo looks a little mismatched to me. I'd keep the bottom end spec as is but use a set of TFC heads instead of the Avengers/procomps as their going to be too large for what you want.I'd use an Xe284 Comp stick as well rather than the Edelbrock cam. I don't like Ed's carbs either. A nice 750 should suffice in either Dp or V/sec.
PS, when I tried to open that link I got a threat detection warning from my anti virus.
This message has been edited by russxr67 from IP address 121.221.93.200 on Jan 27, 2012 8:32 PM
