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2x4 intake for the 351c

June 7 2012 at 7:33 AM

  (Login C_andy460)
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from IP address 75.117.79.182

 

 
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bop
(Login hardbopper)
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147.239.118.158

$4Clunkers

June 7 2012, 7:53 AM 

Chinese recycled American scrap.
b

 
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(Login tony-can-do)
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23.17.112.47

Well at least

June 7 2012, 8:33 AM 

Someone is listening to what the cleveland fans are asking for,I for one will give it a try sometime down the road..

 
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(Login blykins)
72.4.3.130

Make sure you have it pressure tested if you do....n/m

June 7 2012, 8:37 AM 



Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC







 
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(Premier Login blizzardND)
Forum Owner
69.178.219.74

Re: Make sure you have it pressure tested if you do....n/m

June 7 2012, 8:45 AM 

it says right in the add all intakes are 100% pressure tested.

Who elses products do you have to pressure test?

crazy that crap like this gets dumped on the market,

This junk takes consumer dollars away from legit manufactures that test, develop and have 21st century Quality Control standards.

 
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(Login blykins)
72.4.3.130

Yeah....

June 7 2012, 9:11 AM 

...I'd pressure test it again....LOL

I pressure test everything, including brand new aftermarket blocks.....for a reason.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC







 
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(Premier Login blizzardND)
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69.178.219.74

How much pressure?

June 7 2012, 9:14 AM 

just the water ports or the plenums too?

 
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(Login blykins)
72.4.3.130

It depends on what is being checked....

June 7 2012, 9:58 AM 

With a dry intake, probably put 30-50 psi on it, let it sit, and see if it bleeds down. Aluminum is notorious for being porous. Although it's not as critical as a wet intake, it could still cause vacuum leaks...

On the blocks, same deal, but I've found that it doesn't take much to show that they're going to fail. I had an aftermarket aluminum FE block a few months back that was leaking through the lifter bores with 10 pounds on it. Threw some soapy water on it and voila....bubble fest.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC







 
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(Premier Login blizzardND)
Forum Owner
69.178.219.74

Damn, I've wanted one of those for a long time, BUT PC? sorry

June 7 2012, 8:42 AM 

I've been trying to convince Scott Cook for years that we need one of those, not ProCrap beats everyone to the market.

So now what?

am I forced to buy ProCrap? Damnit..

Somebody PLEASE kick Edelbrock in the nads and wake them up. a 2x4 air gap for their alloy heads would be a nice addition to the line up.

for now I'll stick with my BT with the 4500 750 carb.

 
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(Premier Login blizzardND)
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69.178.219.74

details..

June 7 2012, 8:56 AM 

looks like it is a open single plenum intake,
bolt holes are slotted for possibly 351W use also?
gasket flanges also look like the might fit a 351W block

what are those front bolt holes for behind the dizzy, or is that the back and those are vacuum ports?

then it has injector bungs cast on it. Why? how many people out here would buy a 2x4 intake, then convert it to Fuel injection? not many...

I don't know,
someone buy one of these so we can test it and convince E-Brock that they can do better....
~blizz

 
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Kelly
(Login kcoffield)
Member
12.234.226.200

2x4 for C

June 7 2012, 10:05 AM 

I made an offer that was accepted which will probably become a charitable donation to the C community when I post pics and observations after receipt. Suggest anyone interested in this piece make a low ball offer until it is vetted.

The pictures do make it look like an open plenum single plane with very short runners and very large plenum. It will be a dog if that is the case. Also need to check for carb-carb, carb-distributor, and carb to fire wall clearance as this is a challenge on 351c 2x4 and corresponding compromises must me made.

Best,
K

 
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(Premier Login blizzardND)
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69.178.219.74

You da man Mr Coffield!

June 7 2012, 10:17 AM 

Thank you, we cannot wait for your input upon receipt.
-blizzND

 
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Coupe3w
(Login coupe3w)
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74.94.134.50

Powder coat

June 7 2012, 12:44 PM 

Would Powder  coating help with porosity? Since the Cleveland intake is dry I would think that would work. Thouoghts?

 
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(Login jderyke)
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64.13.35.31

Powder Coat

June 29 2012, 2:25 AM 

Powder coat would probably work but may be overkill for the problem. Eons ago when Chrysler was building big performance V-8s , they made some magnesium parts. And if you ever thought cast aluminum was porous.... Anyway, Chrysler Engineering began going down the street to a Rexall Drugstore and buying pint bottles of egg preservative solution, also known as sodium silicate or 'water-glass'. The porous castings were taped up, filled with the solution, drained and air-dried. That's all it took to seal them up for pro-racing, and the excess solution was reuseable. About $3 a pint.

 
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CrazyDave
(Login CRAZYDAVE74)
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209.82.97.10

Let us know!

June 9 2012, 9:12 AM 

Kelly, Please post some detailed pics and test results when you get it running!

I suspect, because of it's design, this manifold will be more show than go.

But, with that being said... it should look freakin' cool!

 
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Kelly
(Login kcoffield)
Member
50.82.86.100

Received it today

June 13 2012, 8:52 PM 

The return address on the box was ProComp Electronics in Rialto, CA. -That puts an end to that question.

I will give a detailed report with pictures this weekend. Looks to me that this was cast so it can be machined to accommodate a 9.5 deck Windsor or 9.2 Cleveland which is reasonable. The Cleveland rear valley rail is a milled not "as cast" feature. All mounting holes are slotted (presumambly for 9.2 or 9.5?) except the center 5/16 mounting bolts which are just drilled.

Port size is not quite 4V C but close. Without measuring, probably matches the procomp C head port position would be my guess. It has some odd features. The floor of the plenum is even with the bottom of the intake port so it literally has no runner length on the floor, a very short roof, that connect to a very large open plenum.

More later.

Best,
Kelly

 
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(Login 74Pantera)
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130.76.96.156

Re: 2x4 for C

June 7 2012, 12:58 PM 

> I made an offer that was accepted which will probably become a charitable
> donation to the C community when I post pics and observations after receipt.

Please measure the cross-sectional area of the plenum runner openings
and the cylinder head/intake manifold openings, as well as the the runner
length and A/B heights and I'll add them to the simulation database. Or
just bring it with you when we dyno the Fontana and I'll measure it.
If you want to dyno test it, we could probably do that too, assuming it
seals against 2V or 4V ports.

> The pictures do make it look like an open plenum single plane with very short
> runners and very large plenum. It will be a dog if that is the case.

That would be much like an Offy Equaflow 360 but without the divider.
Big plenum, no runner length to speak of and the worst of the intakes
tested on the dyno mule 351C.

Dan Jones

 
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Andy
(Login C_andy460)
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75.117.79.182

open plenum

June 7 2012, 9:14 PM 

Looks like you could do a little fab work and make it into a blower manifold.
Andy

 
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Steve.k
(Login steve.k)
Member
209.91.107.139

I'm with Tony on this one!

June 8 2012, 12:05 PM 

While procomp has some iffy products out they seem to be aggressive in terms of marketing and designing new products. That is a heck of alot more than edelbucks can say and the rest of them! The thing with aggressive companies is they usually get bigger and better. Until the manifold is tested and determined a piece of junk I will give them credit for going where no one else seems to wanna a go. There has been a few companies that have surprised even the crustiest 351c enthusiasts on this forum!

 
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ty
(Login ford429cjlover)
Member
98.80.133.205

I really don't get you guys.......

June 8 2012, 12:06 PM 

I really don't get you guys.......

Who cares that PC made it? I'm just glad to see that someone was willing to step up to the plate and market a 2-4V Cleveland intake. Realistically, what other/better alternatives are there? Had Edelbrock decided to manufacture one I guarantee you they'd do something to screw it up like use 2v ports and/or carb placement so only ED carbs could be used. Almost NO chance ED would have done the job right. Just look at the 2-4V FE intake the produced. All they needed to do was use spacing so Holley or ED carbs could be used and they'd sell more of those than they could make. Had DOVE done it the quality would be no better, probably worse, and the price would be at least triple what PC is asking...

I'm glad to see it and I'm saving my pennies...

 
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(Login coupe3w)
Member
74.94.134.50

Re: I really don't get you guys.......

June 8 2012, 12:35 PM 

>I really don't get you guys.......

Who cares that PC made it? I'm just glad to see that someone was willing to step up to the plate and market a 2-4V Cleveland intake. Realistically, what other/better alternatives are there? Had Edelbrock decided to manufacture one I guarantee you they'd do something to screw it up like use 2v ports and/or carb placement so only ED carbs could be used. Almost NO chance ED would have done the job right. Just look at the 2-4V FE intake the produced. All they needed to do was use spacing so Holley or ED carbs could be used and they'd sell more of those than they could make. Had DOVE done it the quality would be no better, probably worse, and the price would be at least triple what PC is asking...

I'm glad to see it and I'm saving my pennies...<

I understand what you are saying, but I would want to save my pennies for something that works instead. If this PC manifold works than great, I'll join you. But if it's a stone like I think it will be than I'll keep saving. I'm going to wait  for the results after testing.

 


 
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Steve.k
(Login steve.k)
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I think what he is saying!

June 8 2012, 12:47 PM 

Don't bash it till you try it! Even the big boys who have some top manifolds made some lemons!

 
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jorge
(Login jorgem2)
Member
99.144.133.108

at least its not a knock off n/m

June 8 2012, 1:23 PM 


 
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(Login snakefake)
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95.206.49.100

Any one tryed this

June 8 2012, 2:06 PM 


 
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(Login Falcon67)
Member
209.165.224.67

Another PC manifold

June 8 2012, 2:30 PM 

A funnelweb knockoff sawed in half. Interesting idea for sure, not for the casual home builder.

I don't have an axe to grind on who makes the manifold, except where PC / others blatantly ripped people like Terry Parker by repop-ing their design in cheap aluminum. If that 2x intake has a true open plenum, I'd be thinking it was a show only part, personally, just from the design. Anybody can build a crappy manifold.

1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V
1970 Mustang 351C-2V
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod
Owner built, owner abused.

 
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(Premier Login blizzardND)
Forum Owner
69.178.219.74

That Fusion is a perfect example of my Issue with ProCrap

June 8 2012, 2:40 PM 

They absolutely do not respect intellectual property rights, it is a direct knock off of the Blue Thunder 2 piece intake. I'm sure Blue Thunder put a lot of testing time into that product as reflected in its $600 price tag.

http://store.survivalmotorsports.com/bluethunderimsb430.html


[linked image]

ProCrap comes along makes some cheap reverse engineering pattern molds out of one intake, and a couple of test pours to get the molds to work and they can sell them cheap, they know Blue Thunder won't expend the money to defend their property in Bering so, they get away with it.

Sure they make products available at reasonable prices, but I would equate that to the kid that steals your lunch money every day, offering to buy you a soda once a month, he's still a bully.

You notice they only sell that garbage on ebay? who do you go to for warrenty? that is built into the price at Ebrock and Holley.

I would not be surprised if they don't come out with engine blocks wouldn't that just be lovely when Tod and Mark have so much invested in their projects.






Happy New Year 2012!!..

 
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Steve.k
(Login steve.k)
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209.91.107.139

Blizzard where is procomp head quarters?

June 8 2012, 2:52 PM 

If that's a North American outfit why can't they be sued for patent infringement?

 
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(Premier Login blizzardND)
Forum Owner
69.178.219.74

Re: Blizzard where is procomp head quarters?

June 8 2012, 3:01 PM 

no clue... I'm betting if they could be sued MSD would have done so by now.

they even "borrowed" someone else's name

http://transamericanautoparts.com/pro-comp-usa



actually I found their website, I never really spent much time on this..

http://www.procompelectronics.com


Procomp Electronics Inc.
Customer Relations
1101 W Rialto Avenue
Rialto, CA
PH: (909) 605 1123
FAX: (909) 974 1155




~blizz


 
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Steve.k
(Login steve.k)
Member
209.91.107.155

Looks like a U.S company to me?

June 12 2012, 8:11 AM 

Well by the looks of the blue collar boys in pic I would say they are all from California where their headquarters is! I'm guessing they get their products from whoever can manufacture them(ie china or wherever) however if they are importers and are based in North America and bringing in knock offs of patented products they themselves could be held liable!i have not used their products so have no idea of the quality but it does seem a little odd that these companies can grow so large from selling junk? Who in their right mind will keep buying parts that repeatedly are no good?It does not add up ? While some of us have used parts in our engines that were manufactured overseas the consensus is that they are stronger than stock parts. These guys must have some legit parts or I cannot see how they can continue to grow and stay in business?Hell even established companies with specialized parts struggle to survive. Something doesnt add up?

 
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Miller Mylan
(Login 417strokers)
Member
70.77.16.228

You get what you pay for

June 12 2012, 9:31 AM 

I was one of the dumb buggers that bought one of there first sets of Small block ford heads! I never had the problems that other guys talked about with the set I got but they were far short in the performance department of the Victor jr heads they were copied from. I have listoned to some real horrer stories about procomp products like leeking castings and guides falling out But some of it is online hipe. The set of heads I got were made to work quite well after a lot of porting and recontouring. The Final cost was not any cheeper than a good set of AFR Heads

 
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(Login 63-4drpost)
Member
173.24.150.59

pro comp

February 18 2013, 4:13 PM 

I always use pro comp when possible, I just build street engines and thier parts have worked fine for me. i would probably spend the extra money IF I had it and If I was building a race engine. sometimes cheep is okay, sometimes not so cheep. ( just think of all the poor 6-year-old chinese kids we are supporting by buying there paoducts) thats a hole nuther subject

 
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(Login tony-can-do)
Member
23.17.112.47

Re: That Fusion is a perfect example of my Issue with ProCrap

June 11 2012, 10:58 PM 

Is this fact Blizz or something you heard. One would think that if in fact this is going on that several companys could join forces and go after them in some kind of class action suit.or are they buying up designs and producing a product that they know they will make money on beacuse they can produce them cheap enough..

 
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(Login gpence)
A1
134.201.253.22

China

June 11 2012, 11:39 PM 

About 10 years ago representatives of the US government asked the Chinese government to police their businesses in regards to patent infringement, to adhere to international law and to cooperate with the other nations of the world in regards to commerce and the respect of patents.

The chinese government's reply was, in so many words, kiss my arse. The US hasn't done anything further, to my knowledge.

It doesn't matter how many businesses got together for a class action suit, Pro Comp is based in China and nobody can legally touch them.



-G
____________________________________________________________

Pantera Photos | 351C Historic Information | 351C Technical Information

The Substitute for Cubic Inches is Large Valve Area, Low Friction, a Wide Powerband, and the Right Amount of Crank Arm Leverage!

 
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(Login ford429cjlover)
Member
98.80.133.205

I just checked the Procomp site and ebay store....

June 8 2012, 6:11 PM 

I just checked the Procomp site and ebay store....

The intake is not listed anywhere. Maybe it isn't a PC part...

 
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Steve.k
(Login steve.k)
Member
96.30.200.35

Another scam artist???

June 9 2012, 9:12 AM 

Yes I also looked at procomps site they look pretty legit in 4x4 world??

 
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Tom
(Login tufxb)
Member
58.163.175.174

lol

June 12 2012, 2:16 AM 

Lol from thehttp://www.procompelectronics.com/ site it seems they are making diff centers . i actually make gears for a living. its very very hard to make them correctly lol

this made me laugh , yes there actually is a question mark after it says 'grater surface area"

http://www.tractiondrivesystems.speedmasterengineering.com/3rdmember.shtml#top

The TORQUE WORM is a torque biasing 6 pinion gear type Limited slip unit.
This is a preloaded unit allowing for a faster Reacting unit.
Unlike our competitors that only use 3 or 4 pinion gears.
Which retail for over $795 e.g. (Eaton Tru-Trac & Torson T2)
The use of 6 pinion gears means the stress on gears is spread over a grater surface area?reducing the load on all internal Components.
The internal components are made from EN36 Material as used in racing such as V8 SUPERCAR. The outer cases made from 8620 Chrome-Nickel-Moly Steel and the case hardened for long life and improved strength. The TORQUE WORM unit is available in 28 and 31 spline Counts. A 35 Spline unit is under development at this time.

 
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(Login blykins)
74.134.178.200

What a joke...

June 12 2012, 3:46 AM 

And people actually buy this stuff too...



Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC







 
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(Login usssanut351)
Member
76.102.44.41

I have to agree on this

June 12 2012, 4:16 PM 

I do like the deal I will admit it. But I steer clear of procomp stuff and not because of what people say, it really is crap. There are distributors across the country trying to unload their inventory for pennies on the dollar. I saw an intake manifold personally that could not even have a carb bolted on it.

 
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blizz
(Premier Login blizzardND)
Forum Owner
74.218.231.122

if you guys want more on Pro Crap

June 13 2012, 7:56 PM 

just go to the search box and type in Kaz and Pro-Comp, but don't comment or brig it forward or I will delete your post and send it back.

make popcorn, grab a beer and search, but do not bump....

blizz

 
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(Login kcoffield)
Member
50.82.86.100

Here's the Report- Dial up warning

June 17 2012, 5:45 PM 

Well guys its a strange piece. The return address was Procomp Electronics in Rialto, CA. Heres some pictures, observations and comments.

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

You can think of this intake as two intake/head flanges with approximate 4V ports (probably the Procomp head dimensions) and the features needed to bolt to bolt it to the head, two carburetor flanges on top, and all of them connected to a large open plenum that runs the length of the intake.

Though I havent pressure tested it the casting quality actually doesnt appear to be too bad. Some minor blemishes here and there. There must be some decent temper to the casting in order to get the machine finish that was achieved.

Not sure why the 3/8" intake mounting holes would be slotted while the center two 5/16" bolts on each side are not. I looks to be cut for 9.2 deck at least it appeared to be so when I sat it on my block. It also looks like it stands a chance of clearing a small diameter distributor. The one you see in the picture is an old Mallory I had laying around. Not sure but looks doubtful that a Holley carb would fit, unless cross-wise.

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

Lots of bosses for this and that and the other thing and fuel injector bosses on a 2x4 intake no less!

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

>>Please measure the cross-sectional area of the plenum runner openings and the cylinder head/intake manifold openings, as well as the runner length and A/B heights

Near as I can tell they are both the same because the cylinder head openings essentially are the runner openings. There is no runner floor as the opening is even with the plenum floor. Maybe 2" of roof, so maybe average runner length at the center of the opening of about 1". The port windows are 1 3/8" wide by 2 ¼" tall. By way of comparison, 4V Clevelands are usually just over 1 ¾"w x 2 ½" tall.

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

>>If you want to dyno test it, we could probably do that too, assuming it seals against 2V or 4V ports.

I have two 390 Holley carbs but would rather spend the effort on something else. Anybody that wants this intake can have it for $200 +the ride.

This has been a public service announcement.

Best,
Kelly

 
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(Login Falcon67)
Member
72.172.34.154

Milling

June 17 2012, 10:42 PM 

If I had to guess, the intake flages look heavily milled (kinda thin), like maybe they cast it for a 9.5 deck and then cut it way down. That seems extreme, but they did mill the rear to a C layout, so who knows. From my mockups, you'd be taking about 3/8" off each side of the intake.

1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V
1970 Mustang 351C-2V
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod
Owner built, owner abused.

 
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dion
(Login xdclevo)
Member
60.241.145.141

Re: Here's the Report- Dial up warning

June 18 2012, 3:01 AM 


Could the square embossment and threaded holes be for below::

"One major feature on this manifold, a rear water crossover passage which promotes a cooler running engine"

 
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(Login kcoffield)
Member
50.82.86.100

Square embossment?

June 18 2012, 6:21 PM 

>>Could the square embossment and threaded holes be for below:

>>>"One major feature on this manifold, a rear water crossover passage which promotes a cooler running engine"

Dont think so as the NPT port in the center just taps into the intake plenum. I was thinking maybe idle air control valve for EFI but it's pretty maassive for that.

Best,
K


 
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ty
(Login ford429cjlover)
Member
98.80.192.23

Where are you located???

June 27 2012, 2:35 PM 

Where are you located??? I'm in GA and I'll take it if it isn't already sold....

 
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CRAZYDAVE
(Login CRAZYDAVE74)
Member
68.145.76.97

Soooo... anyone tried this manifold yet?

February 10 2013, 9:24 PM 

Hate to ressurect an old thread, but...
Has anyone installed and used this setup on the street yet?
Performance? Issues? Pics?
Would love to hear from anyone who's using it.... it looks cool as hell, but if I get one, I wouldnt want to trade off the 'good manners' of my single Edelbrock simply for asthetics!

 
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ty
(Login ford429cjlover)
Member
98.67.60.233

I've asked several times.....

February 11 2013, 10:24 AM 

I've asked several times, but no response yet. I went ahead and bought one. I haven't had an opportunity to put it to work yet though. Looks like an interested/unique item. It has a huge plenum with really short runners and 2V sized ports. I'm not sure if mine is a Cleveland or Clevor intake.

 
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CRAZYDAVE
(Login CRAZYDAVE74)
Member
209.82.97.10

Keep us posted

February 11 2013, 12:41 PM 

Well Ty, when you get it going, let me know!

 
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