Does anyone know why the trend in most engines is to have the exhaust towards the front of the car? Like on this great new Abarth, it is crossflow, but the intake is located back on the firewall. Initially I figured airflow over the exhaust manifold to cool it (post radiator), but then I see some others like the K20 Honda with a front intake.
I ask because for us, a rear exhaust works great (packaging). Do any of our tech heads know of a good mechanical or engineering reason for this? Just curious.
-Brody
How are turbo's NOT good for track use? Subaru, Audi, VW, Toyota, Nissan ALL use turbochargers and do VERY well at tracks. I'd think with a RWD Fiat turbo'd it would kick ass. Especially 200hp.
So much so, my X has a Uno Turbo in it (sorta) and I'll be racing it.
=========================================================
1982 Fiat X-1/9 (the pee'd off bumble bee) Soon to be Turbo'd
Hope I don't come across like an arse in saying this but I've got a pretty good bit of experience on road courses in pretty much every sporting (and lots of not-so-sporting) car made in the last 20-30 years. Oddly, absolutely zero experience in Xs on real race tracks, but I've driven almost everything Ferrari, Porsche, etc, etc, etc has built recently, including a pretty good many racing cars. Up until very recently I built road racing cars for $ (primarily BMWs), and may well do so again. Again, not trying to sound like a pr!ck, just want to make sure you understand I'm not talking out of my arse.
IMO, NO turbo car does (really) well on a road course. That includes the brands you mentioned (I've driven a number of each). Hands down the most refined turbo cars I've driven are Porsche Twin Turbos-- Porsche has spent many, many years refining their turbo technology. But they are still nowhere near as gratifying to drive as a naturally aspirated or supercharged car with similar power.
The reason for this is simple, but it's more complex than it sounds at first. First of all you need to understand that I consider any car to be fun to drive if it can be driven on the edge in a corner. I've driven a lot of race cars, including a WSC car, but even a well set-up slow street car can be (nearly) as much fun if you really hang it out in a corner. Which you can't in a turbo car...
Okay, in all fairness, you actually can. But it'll wear you out to the point that it ceases to be fun. For a car to be fun to drive your right foot has to be connected directly to the rear wheels (by and large you steer the front of the car with your hands, the rear of the car with your feet). Turbocharging serves as a "cushion" between your foot and the driven wheels-- the power delivery is non-linear. Not only do you have lag when applying power (even in the excellent twin-turbos like Porsche's and the late lamented RX-7 TT), but you also have to bleed off manifold pressure during drop throttle, which means it's far harder to throttle steer a turbo car all the way through a corner.
Another oft-forgotten drawback to turbos is the heat load they create, both under the hood and in the intake tract. I've had the good fortune to have the keys to a number of nice cars over the past several years, some of which have been turbocharged. On a cold day a turbo car will flat scat, but they lose a huge, huge, huge amount of power in the heat of the summer. And they toast everything under the hood if the OAT is much above 70F, which it is much of the time here in TX. It's not just the heat added by compressing air, but also the heat retained in the engine bay by the turbo and associated plumbing. This causes more problems than it might seem at first glance when running a car hard on a road course.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no hero driver-- Steve H would prolly spank me on my own home tracks. But I do have a ton of experiences (tens of thousands of laps) in lots and lots of cars, and there's no way I'd own a turbo car by choice if I planned on running it on the track. I can tell you without a doubt that the people I know with similar or greater experience agree. In fact, I believe that even Michael Schumacher hisownself has gone on record similarly-- after driving an older turbo F1 car years ago he commented on its lack of driveability.
Each to his own, and I know there are certain factions (the WRX/EVO crowd for example) who advocate turbocharging, but I don't know of any experienced road course drivers who would choose one over a NA or supercharged car.
and it has chosen to do so with its new ‘500 Abarth Assetto Corse’, the baby supersports car from Abarth, due to be produced in a Limited Edition (49 cars) - read a press release issued this morning in Turin.
It will be much more expensive, and probably not any more compatible than the Hondas
May 15 2008, 12:15 PM
Still a major transplant. The lone virtue is that it is Italian. Don't think I'd fool with it. Even NEW Fiat parts are not available in the US and would have to be shipped from Europe.
I think the Honda is still the best plan.
the MR2 motor was quite a bit bigger from front to back, and would need quite abit more cutting to install. I have often wondered the same thing. I drove a new MR2 years ago and found it quite a similar ride to the X.
i did have lookt ad the 1.6 4age 20v blacktop engine.
with four throttle bodys..
Its a small block, but its bigger then you think.
it need just the same space as a 2.o ltr turbo engine. (its 5 or 7 cm longer then the X 1.5 engine!!).
it got 145 bhp, thru some modification, like a free programble management.
it can get tops, 175 bhp.
With ore it can get even 250 bhp...
But the cost of it, is way over what a 2.0 turbo engine cost.
I'd sure like to see the mounts and CV joints... wouldn't that be somethun' if it dropped right into the X's engine bay and bolted right up!
HA!
My best,
Tony
Black Tooth and me... since 1983!
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147KW = 197.13 HP . which is probably what they meant
200KW actually converts to 268 HP... Much confusion here as I was so exited I didn't read it correctly either... (I'm old and I've done that thousand of times before.) Someone else apparently confused the HP and Torque numbers also...
My best,
Tony Black Tooth and me... since 1983! Disclaimer: This message does not necessarily reflect the views of the sender, or, for that matter, any other carbon-based life form; Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; All models are 18 years of age or older; Dry clean only, do not use bleach, Tumble dry and remove immediately; Do not bend, fold, staple or mutilate; Anchovies, cheese or jalapenos may be added to orders upon request for an additional charge; Professional driver on a closed course, do not attempt to duplicate; Your actual mileage may vary; No substitutions are allowed; Available for a limited time only while supplies last; Offers are void where prohibited by law; Humor is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied; The user assumes full liabilities and originator is not liable for damages due to use or misuse; We are an equal opportunity employer, with no regard to race, religion, sex, or sexual preference; No shoes, no shirt, no service; Read at your own risk; This post may contain material some may find to be objectionable; Parental advisory: Explicit lyrics; keep away from pets and small children; limit one-per-family please; No money down; No purchase necessary; Ask us about our guns-for-dope trade-in plan; You need not be present to win; Some assembly required; Batteries not included; Action figures sold separately; Contents were packed full at the factory, but may have settled during shipping; Peanuts and peanut products are produced in this establishment and also consumed by the author; Sanitized and sealed for your protection; Do not use if safety seal is broken; Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment; Safety goggles may be required during use; Use gloves when handling; Call before you dig; Use only with proper ventilation; For external use only, if a swelling, redness, rash, or irritation develops, discontinue use; Do not place near a flammable or magnetic source; Keep away from open flames; Avoid inhaling fumes or contact with mucous membranes; Contents under pressure, may explode if incinerated; Smoking may be hazardous to your health; No smoking allowed, except in designated areas; The best safeguard, second only to abstinence, is the use of a good laugh; Text is made from 100% recycled electrons and magnetic particles; No animals were harmed while writing this post; No salt, MSG, preservatives, artificial color or flavor added; If ingested, do not induce vomiting, If symptoms persist, consult a comedian; Ribbed for your pleasure, slippery when wet; Must be 18 to enter; No one under 21 allowed; We check IDs to age 40; Seniors Welcome; Ask for our Senior Menu; Present discount coupons to cashier before totaling; An 18% gratuity will be added to the total for parties of 8 or more; We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Return all carts to the store; No dogs allowed, except for the visually impaired; Penalties for early withdrawal, one size fits all; Offer is valid only at participating sites; Prices slightly higher west of the Rockies; Allow four to six weeks for delivery; If defects are found, do not attempt a repair, return to an authorized service center; Please remain seated until the vehicle has come to a complete stop; Objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear; Fasten seat belts; In the unlikely event of a loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will fall from above, cover your face first, then assist those around you. Your seat cushion may be used as a floatation device. This disclaimer is invalid in the event of hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, sonic booms, vibration, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts or any other act of war, unauthorized repair, improper installation, misuse, typos, misspelled words, missing or altered signatures, and incidents owing to computer or disk failure, accidental file deletions, and Acts of God. Other restrictions may, or may not apply.
This message has been edited by Black-Tooth on May 16, 2008 8:47 AM
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