Some of you may remember my post after the Basel Fair about Kees. If not, please have a look here.
For those of you familar with Kees and his work, please follow the link to view his collection of hand engraved watches (Dial, case and movement), which are truly works of fine art and supreme craftsmanship.
Please feel free to ask questions, as Kees will be available to answer them.
I have too many questions about Mokume Gane, where to start?
September 25 2003, 2:17 PM
Hello Curtis and Kees,
What a great opportunity! Thanks for offering to tackle some of our questions and comments.
I am baffled and amazed by the Mokume Gane process. Honestly, I don't know enough about it to even ask intelligent questions, but I am interested in understanding more about what the process is and how it is performed.
Is it a blending of metals? Does it involve acid etching to expose different layers of metal? I can imagine that engraving on a non-homogenous surface would present some most unusual challenges, does anyone else do this at all?
Really, any information you'd care to share about the process would be most appreciated. Thanks!
Feel free to e-mail me directly with specific questions. I have worked in Mokume Gane for many years and am a Jewelers of America Certified Master Bench Jeweler.
Hi John,
If you want to understand the mokume gane technique, I can recommand: Mokume Gane, A comprehensive study by Steve Midget (http://www.mokume.com/bookvid3.html).
In this book you will find most answers to your questions. The engravings I do though, are not explained in this book since it's only about mokume gane. What I did is: I combined two techniques (bas-relief engraving and mokume gane) to make the dials for my watches. As far as I know I'm the only one to use the mokume gane technique in Swiss luxury watches. Concerning your question about engraving a non-homogenous surface, you're right, it's not always easy because of the differences in hardness. Finally, I do use acid and other chemical products to etch and color the dial once the engraving is done.
Thank you Mr. Englebart for being available for questions. . .
September 25 2003, 8:30 PM
. . .I admire your dragon watches very much.
I am curious to know how long you will be engaged in the work of finishing the Reverso Platinum One?
Also, I am very curious to know more about skeletonizing. How much material, in general, is it possible to remove before the mechanical stability of the movement is endangered? I have seen skeletonized watches with so little metal remaining that they looked as if the torque of the mainspring would crush them when they were wound.
Finally, in Mokume Gane, can you explain a bit more about fusion layering the different metals together? How are heat and pressure used to create the different patterns? Is it possible to use two different colored metals? How is the pattern controlled? I ask the latter because the decorated movements in your dragon watches show such a variety of colors and density of grain.
Thank you again and forgive me for asking so many questions but it's a fascinating process.
I always remember my grandfathers advice:
When I was a little boy I asked him how I could know if a screw was tight enough. His answer was that I could tighten it even more but that I should make sure to stop a quarter of a turn before the thread of the bold would break...
The main-spring bridge should stay solid enough to handle the forces. Of course there's also an aesthatical choise to make. It's not a law that less material always gives the best result. If you look at the Platinum Number One (by the way not finished yet, for more information ask Jaeger), you'll see that it's not as thin as it could have been. You could, I guess, compare it with beautiful women. They can be either too skinny, too fat but also perfectly in balance...
If you want to learn more on mokume gane please read the book that I refer to, in my answer to John.
Having had the extreme good fortune to see the dragon in person,
September 26 2003, 12:03 AM
I can only marvel at its beauty - the depth, the detail - simply marvelous!
Kees, I have to echo Jack's question - being a fan of skeletonizing / openworking, do you as an artist visualize the finished work and then set about executing it, or do you design as you do?
Do you see a harmony to the whole open worked movement, or do you see individual plates and bridges and cocks?
What are key finishing details to look for in appraising an openworked movement?
Are you able to tell, is openworking stylistically unique, a personal signature, if you will, of the engraver / person doing the skeletonizing? Are you able to look at a piece and tell it is a Schaffo, for example?
Most of the times when working on a movement, I just follow my instinct. If you look at one of my dragons (Ref. 0368) you can see that the movement is also partly skeltonized. From the dial side of the watch you can see the balance and the micro-rotor move. So in this particular case I didn't want to open it too much.
It's hard to imagine what a watch will look like when you only make drawings of it. I much more prefer to work with saw and file, so I can immediately touch and see what the final result will look like.
The finishing of a openworked movement is extremely delicate. You have to file and then grind (with a very fine grinding stone) the sides without deforming the pieces. When looking at the finishing you can see the skills of the person who did the watch. Sometimes skeleton watches are done by machine (CNC-milled out or by erosion) and not finished at all. I've even seen watches of a famous Swiss brand that where machine engraved...!!
Anyway, if you look at a skeleton watch you can see if it's done with love and devotion or if it's only DONE...
Openworking is not so much a signature, but engraving is... when skeletonizing a watch you don't have one thousand possibilities, when engraving it, you do. So I wouldn't recognize a Schaffo (unless it's signed or wears sheep-wool socks)
Opens some interesting doors of opurtiunty for you and also for us collectors.
I have been admiring your work and am wondering if it is not too prohibitive in costs to lend your talent to customising certain watches that have a huge following and may benefit from high quality engraving to the case and dial.
Namely
1 Panerai....the case is big and broad enough, and the dials certainly have some room.
2 FP Journe's remontoir ( I do recall there is one example with an engraved dial on his press kit)
3 FP Joune's Octa series.
4 Lange 1,,providing collectors with an alternative to the companies guilloched dials.
5 Would you recase and engrave an antique pocket watch...case only..if we were to supply the movement?
Would you advise us on whether you would take up any such work and estimate how much it would cost? Could we do it with the blessing of the company...by sending the watch to them and having them send it to you?
I know that these questions can be addressed thru your website, but I am sure there are many here who are interested in such work if the costs are not too prohibitive.
can be done of course. Most companies though, don't like the idea too much. Most of the time garanty is void after you change (or even open) a watch. So it all depends on the company.
The watches you've mentionned, I am sure, can be very nicely personalized. I would like to do more customized engravings for people who want something special. If a watch-owner wants me to customize his watch, I could check with the company directly if they agree.
In answer to question No.5, yes, I could make a specailly engraved case around an antique movement.
Second possibility is to directly order a watch from me , in that case I can do the whole thing myself. Now mountain's too high...
Concerning the costs, I think you're better of letting me do the engraving directly, rather than asking the company to make a special engraving for you.
To conclude, if someone wants his watch to be personalized by me, he should send an email to:
mail@kees.ch with a picture of the watch and some ideas about how he wants it...
I will then study the project and make a proposition and a price.
thatīs a really impressive work!
Thank you a lot for these stunning pictures!
If you donīt mind, some questions:
First, what are the dimensions of these dials? Especially the approx. heigth would be interesting. The wonderful and large pictures on the website just do not give a good impression how large/small these are in nature.
The dials are 29 mm in diameter and 0.8 mm strong.
It takes me several weeks (4 or 5) to finish one watch like this.
Here are the steps:
- Every case is hand made by Jean-Pierre Scherrer.
- The movement is taken apart and all the rubies are taken out.
- The mokume gane that is going to be rivited on the bridges has to be decorated, laminated and colored first.
- The bridges are finished and gold- or silver plated.
- Once the mokume gane is rivited on the bridges we put back the stones and assemble the movement.
- Anglage of the mokume gane
- The mokume gane for the dial has to be laminated to 0.8 mm
- The feet are soldered to the dial
- I transfer the drawing to the dial
- Engraving of the dial in bas-relief technique
- Dial is finished by hand (no polishing brushes, since this would damage the engraved details)
- Etching and coloring of parts of the dial
- Hand-engraving the seethrough caseback
- Final assembly and testing of the watch
There're maybe some steps I forgot to mention, but this is roughly how I work.
If some one should have any more questions please don't hesitate asking me .
I'm sorry to be answering so late, but I just came back from Japan last night. We had two watch exhibitions in Osaka and Tokyo (with a.o. Antoine Preziuso and Peter Speake-Marin).
Thanks for putting the link to my website, that is, as you can see also in Japanese language now .
I remember now that a few Academy guys and yourself were going to Japan for an exhibition. I trust it went well. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the forum, as well as your beautiful watches.
