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An insight into how much work goes into certain wristwatches...Volker Vsycocil(1of2)

January 20 2005 at 1:40 AM

  (Login bernardcheong)
AP Discussion Group

Here is verbatim, some email exchanges I have been having with Volker, and it is with great joy and fascination that I have to share with you all that the art and craft of handmade watches still lives with a handful ( literally) of watchmakers.

Again, if you have missed the earlier posts, you may find them here in the archives.

I have been following Volker's work, as well as Roger Smith and George Daniels ( remotely on paper only)...but here are some facets which are interesting:

Volker: " Please let me philosophise a bit about the parts of watch movements and their dimensions.
When we take a closer look at any part, we will recognise, that there are two different types of dimensions.
a) Technically
b) Decoratively

In a wristwatch,most technical dimensions, or their tolerances, differ in a range of 1/100 or less of a mm.

The decorative dimensions...maybe a range of 1/10 to 1/2 of an mm.

To keep the watch running, you have at first to concentrate on the 1/100 tolerances.

To shape the parts with this necessary accuracy, you normally use machines to guide the tools and hold the work piece.
(only in filing/grinding/polishing and hand turning are processes where the tool is guided by handand where you can reach the 1/100.

Laces, jig boring machines,(mills and maybe punching tools) are the traditional machines, used by the watchmaker who will build a watch "from scrap".

With this machine, you can (normally) move the tool in a straight line along the workpiece (x, y and z axis).

At the first view, it is anodyne to see, that the most shapes (staffs and holes) are parallel to this axis. Most, but not all.

For example, the barrel arbour is fitted with a curve which is a little bit tricky to make. ( next two pictures)





but only to produce the easy shapes within a 1/100mm , it is extremely time consuming to set up the machine correctly.

If we could visit an old watch factory, we would see halls filled with countless machines. Every machine arranged to produce only one type of part ( or only one shape of one part).
So for every part of a watch, at least one machine ( which will only do only this job his whole "machine live" long.)







 
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(Login bernardcheong)
AP Discussion Group

For those who MUST HAVE a handmade by an INDIVIDUAL watchmaker (2of2)

January 20 2005, 1:55 AM 

Look no farther...the art of hand made watches are truly a very very rare and prohibitively expensive craft. It is however, not an indulgence for the slothful, or a showpiece to flaunt wealth, it is the historical responsibility for us to support and preserve this craft.

Let us hear from Volker...

" As my work area is limited to approx 20 sq metres and my financial budget to 2000 euro a month, and my life time to.. I decided to invest in a modern technique.

The milling machine is controlled by a computer. So I can reduce the set up time for producing partsand I am able to cut out non linear bordered work pieces.

For example, I need 42x11 (462) working steps to produce the "knurl" on ONE winding crown. This, because I was not able to set up my lathe in this way, that the tool will follow the required circle. To build a specific machine would be a possible way out.







Bernard: So you can imagine, how difficult and time consuming it is to build the watch case and the crown alone...not even considering the movement. In this case, Volker has gone the extra mile to build everything. Except the crystal, jewels, and spring. Awesome.


 
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(no login)

Bernard, how long does it take him to make 1 watch? (nt)

January 20 2005, 3:03 AM 

(nt)

 
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bernardcheong
(no login)

He worked on 5 watches

January 20 2005, 3:18 AM 

Hi Ronald,
Last year, till probably the middle of this year 2005, he was working at full capacity...every hour that he could spare, minus time for admin work, rest and normal life, he would be completing 5 watches.

5 timepieces is about all that is possible working hard for a full year....all 5 more or less simultaneously.

 
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(no login)

Thanks Bernard, thanks. Sounds like 5 happy people per year...

January 20 2005, 3:37 AM 

Did he say when yours will be finished?

 
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(Login bernardcheong)
AP Discussion Group

Mid 2006 earliest nt

January 20 2005, 5:53 AM 

nt


 
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Shirasu
(Login shirasu)

That means first lot comes on mid of the next year?

January 20 2005, 1:30 PM 

Thank you very much for your great essay and pics.
Well, Is yours in the first lot or second?

 
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(Login MelvynTeillolFoo)
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1st five watches expected mid-2005 >>

January 20 2005, 7:19 PM 

As it is more efficient to do batches of 5 watches, the 2nd batch is expected mid-2006.

But bear in mind that the delivered watches do not have to be sequential serial numbered

Regards,
MTF

 
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(no login)

I am not sure just what you mean? The first 5....

January 21 2005, 3:23 PM 

are to be numbered 1-5. The next year's production of 5 would be numbered 6-10, etc. Of course, all watches in each year's batch are produced somewhat simultaneously so they are not sequentially produced. Is this what you are suggesting?

 
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Shirasu
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Thanx. I'm looking forward to seeing the pic that someone will post (nt)

January 22 2005, 5:16 PM 

nt

 
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MTF
(no login)

At least two of the 1st batch will be delivered to Japan>>

January 22 2005, 6:43 PM 

and maybe one of the 2nd batch is commissioned by a resident in Japan.

Of course, owners are very private people, so the complete global distribution pattern is purposely obscured.

The "owners" all have 3 things in common:
Intense anticipation.
Dwindling patience.
Indubitable hope.

Regards,
MTF


 
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Shirasu
(no login)

Thanx again. I think I know guys ordered the first batch of VA.

January 24 2005, 10:37 PM 

I am very happy to become a person to see VA of first batch.
I hope they order different color of dial.
How lucky I am.

 
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bernardcheong
(Login bernardcheong)
AP Discussion Group

You are most blessed

January 27 2005, 12:32 AM 

And so will the generations after you who will have this first and few of a handful made by a watchmaker of the 21st century.

Congratulations.


 
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(Login bernardcheong)
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Mine is inside the second batch. nt

January 27 2005, 12:33 AM 

nt


 
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(no login)

A dissenting voice...

January 20 2005, 6:37 AM 

"For example, I need 42x11 (462) working steps to produce the "knurl" on ONE winding crown."

My feeling is that this is actually bad design, in as much as the physical concept doesn't correspond to the means available to produce it.

IMO good design is about striking the balance between "beauty", function, cost and "manufacturability". Designing something that will be excessively complex to produce given the equipment available, and therefore more expensive for the customer strikes me as extravagant, to say the least. It could only happen in this sort of context, where we're in the grey zone between the words of collectable horologery and collectable artifacts. Both these worlds have collectors with the budgets to enable this behaviour, but I'm not sure this justifies it.

I feel a more elegant solution would be to design something equally beautiful and functional, but that could be produced with the minimum number of steps.

If we were talking about a revolutionary redesign of a key component that would make the watch much better I could understand, but for the knurling on the winding crown...

I find the idea of less-than-optimal design limiting the number of watches that can be produced franky bizarre. Imagine if the sum of all such operations were equivalent to half a watch or even a whole watch per year. Would the watches be worse for this, less valuable, less desirable...? Is 5/year "better" than 6/year?

But, perhaps part of the "charm" or "magic" of such a watch is the knowledge that something as humble as the winder took x steps or days to produce. I often wonder if the real magic of this kind of handmade watch is the feeling the owner gets from knowing that they can afford to have someone so skilled and inventive spend so much time building something for them. I'm having a handmade guitar repaired/restored by a top luthier, and I have to confess that it's a nice thought that I can do so.

Also, the winder is part of the decoration as much as the functional components, and I'm not sure that you can rationalise the time or money spent on decoration. Given display backs, you could probably argue that the movement is actually as much decoration as functional. (Not sure even I know where I'm going with these particular lines of thought...)

Please don't get me wrong, I really admire Volker's work,and I'm not picking on him. I feel the same about many things in the world of haute horlogery, particularly obsessive levels of finishing (but I don't want particularly want to open this old wound yet again)...

nick

 
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(Login Volker_V)

I don't think so...

January 20 2005, 8:11 AM 

... because the number of working steps (in this example) is primary not a result of the design.

The question from Bernard to me was "... how this new mill will help your work ..."

I used the example with the winding button to answer this question.

But now I am not sure if this was a good idea.

To explain the situation a little bit more:

The first step was to decide, what type of crown will I use with the "VA".

a) an existing one witch I can buy from a supplier or
b) one of my own design.

I decide to b).

Now I start to design the crown.
I use the same curves like the side of the case, to shape the crown...
But if you look at the drawing, you will see that the "type oft design" is a very old one. Nothing new, nothing complicated...
Only the details are special.

In the next step, I have to build some pieces to look if the design is really in harmony with the rest of the watch.

Exactly here starts my example.
With my machinery (1 year ago) I was able to build the crown with this high number of steps. Very circumstantially ... but it works.
(The other way were, to order at least 20 crowns to my specifications from a factory witch is specialised to build crowns.)

With the new milling machine, I can work much more efficiently. This was the answer to Bernard’s question.

Regards,

Volker


 
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IanS
(Login ian.s)
AP Discussion Group

Thank you very much for the explanation Volker . . .

January 20 2005, 9:34 AM 

and Nick as well for his doubts - if he did not ask we would not have learnt the process behind such a (apparently) simple part.

Another question if I may. If you had ordered 20 crowns to be made to your specifications would that have been so much more expensive? Assuming you value your own time as well.

Is the reason to make the crowns (more efficiently) yourself because it is cost effective to do so, or so you can say you make virtually all the parts yourself ?

And I would like to take this oppotunity once again Volker to thank you for your participation here. It is very rare we get to hear from the watchmaker himself the hows and whys of his art.

 
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(Login Volker_V)

Re: Thank you very much for the explanation Volker . . .

January 20 2005, 3:24 PM 

...Another question if I may. If you had ordered 20 crowns to be made to your specifications would that have been so much more expensive? Assuming you value your own time as well.

Yes and no.

Yes, it would be more efficiently to let the those people make the crown who are specialised in this work. But when I ask for 20 pieces, they move very slow. If I would ask for 200 or 2000 ... the situation will be change.

No, because the crowns are not made from the same material.
The Prototype was made of brass. In the first lot, there are 6 crowns of 4 different materials.
In addition: In the second contains the 5th type of material.
Then the time. They will really move very slow when I ask for 6 or 20 crowns of 4 different materials.

...Is the reason to make the crowns (more efficiently) yourself because it is cost effective to do so, or so you can say you make virtually all the parts yourself ?

The only reason is that I am more "independently" (from supplier).
I can make the few watches to my imaginations. I have not to ask ..."please would you do this for me ... Thank you ... but I need them in two month..."
When I would build more watches a year, I am not sure what I would do. Maybe I would purchase the ready made crowns.

 
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(Login G_I_)

Another question....

January 25 2005, 3:53 AM 

Do you make your own dials? I mean the padprinting process. Or you use a dial printing supplier. The reason I'm asking this I'd like to make a custom dial for myself with very thin line drawing, around ~0.08-0.1mm line widths (something like the lines on old porcelain pocketwatch dials). I'm not sure that whether it is a realistic line width requirement or too thin. Do you have any informaion regarding this issue?

Thank you for any info on this in advance, Volker!

 
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(Login Volker_V)

Answer

February 8 2005, 2:16 PM 

Do you make your own dials?
The actual dials yes. This dial have no printings. They have applied numbers of gold or silver and filled out indices.
The first dials not in all parts. They were be printed and I have give them away to let do the printing work a supplier.

I'd like to make a custom dial for myself with very thin line drawing, around ~0.08-0.1mm line widths

I think that this is a realistic line width for the most printing supplier.

Best wishes,

Volker

 
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(Login G_I_)

Thanks, Volker! - nt

February 13 2005, 1:52 AM 

!

 
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(no login)

My apologies...

January 20 2005, 11:39 AM 

Volker,

Please accept my apologies. I'd totally missunderstood the "point" of the messages.

Regards,

nick

 
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(Login Volker_V)

Nothing to apologies ;-) -nt

January 20 2005, 3:26 PM 


 
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(Login watchmaker)

Interesting reading. Thanks guys! -nt

January 20 2005, 3:08 PM 

nt

 
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(Login Jokoh)
AP Discussion Group

THIS watch I MUST see for myself....

January 21 2005, 4:17 AM 

Very interesting questions and absolutely very inspiring answers from the man himself.

cheers
joe

 
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