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Roger Smith Series 2 & F.P. Journe Chronometre Souverain

November 10 2006 at 7:25 PM
Samuel Lock  (Login whatimeisit)
PP Discussion Group

 
Would like to hear your opinions on both timepieces... Thank you for your time

 
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mostel
(Login dartanian)
PP Discussion Group

Smith, Smith, Smith.

November 11 2006, 9:32 AM 

The Journe is a nice watch, but not in the same league as the Smith--not nearly as rare, or as personal a watch. On a romantic level, the Smith is an epic poem--the Journe a bouquet of roses. Have fun choosing.

 
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JC
(Login JCY88)
PP Discussion Group

Disagree the about the "personal" comment...

November 11 2006, 11:22 PM 

I think i also posrted on the FPJ forum that Smith is often considered in the same leqgue as the Simplicity. it is certainly rarer than the the CS.

But I would say tht it is unfair to say the Journe CS is "not near....as personal a watch". I know that nothing on any FPJ watch is an accident and that he personally spends a lot fo time designing and bringing his creations to market. Sure, he does not sit down and make a CS himself too often, but thats because he has now successful enough to grow into a size where he can employ 25 wtch makers. i know that he still makes a fw of the tourbys and resonances I think. So he still gets his hands dirty.

But I think both are great watches. I have a RG CS and I love it. But I expect if I had a Smith, I'd love that too.

 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

On the basis of the individuals behind the pieces alone, I would choose...

November 14 2006, 11:06 AM 

the Journe.

More and more the people behind the watches (and behind the brands) are beginning to overshadow the assemblage of gears and springs.

I used to be willing to overlook hypocrisy or lousy humanity, if the product was intriguing or beautiful enough.

Less and less I am willing to do this, and more and more, no matter how much I might like the product, I will not own it or even admire it from afar, if I know the creator or brand executive to be two faced or lack personal integrity or lack "humanity" - whatever that means.

I don't know Mr. Smith well (and we have had more than a few chances for this to be corrected, but it didn't) and I have lost touch with Mr. Dufour.

But I will say that from my recent interactions and candid discussions with Mr. Journe and his key persons,

a) I respect the thought that goes into each and every product and component.

b) I respect their business acumen.

c) I respect and appreciate their working principles.

Thus, if I were ever again to be in a position to purchase a timepiece of this level, based upon my feelings and knowledge at this point in time, my choice would be, without hesitation, a Journe.

Just one, insignificant person's point of view.

TM

 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

Apologies, my eyes and brains are not as careful as they once were. Please do not read my

November 14 2006, 11:09 AM 

previous to mean, by implication, I have anything against Mr. Smith or Mr. Dufour.

In the LIMITED CONTEXT of my comments in the preceding post, it might appear this way, but that was not my intention.

I don't know Mr. Smith well enough, at this point; I have lost touch with Mr. Dufour.

Those are the ONLY relevent words apropos those two gentlemen in the context of my previous post, nothing more.

My comments about Journe stand.

Thank you for your understanding.

TM


 
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chris russell
(Login patekkie)
AP Discussion Group

Thomas, I was very interested to read your comments about not wanting to support...

November 14 2006, 12:17 PM 

enterprises represented by people who display hypocrisy, lack of integrity or poor 'humanity'.

If you care to comment, I would be at least as interested in your views on the idea of watch companies owned by a large conglomerate that does a considerable amount of business in tobacco and tobacco products. Thanks very much for any views you may care to share.

 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

I look at individuals, and only look at "organizations" only when

November 14 2006, 12:44 PM 

I have no other choice.

I don't not buy Mercedes Benz or VW because their past was involved with the WWII Wehrmacht;

I don't not take drugs from Merck because they also study abortion drugs.

I don't demonize guns ("it's the shooter, stupid") and I don't demonize tobacco companies if someone is stupid enough, or makes the conscious decision, to light up something a tobacco company makes and stick it in their mouth and inhale.

To my knowledge, Mr. Torres and the thousands of people involved in Vacheron Constantin, or any of the watch brands owned by Richemont, are NOT * involved in the business of tobacco and tobacco products.

Mr. Rupert's and other Richemont executives' past involvement (and possibly present involvement, I don't know) with BAT and/or other tobacco interests have very little to do with my interest or support of the watch brands Richemont now owns.

Everyone has their own crusades; this doesn't happen to be one of mine, and in this case, like my feelings on charity, I don't proselytize.

But frankly, the production of guns (in a legal manner) and the tobacco business (in a legal manner) are not much different to me than the environmental damage caused by acid washing PC boards used in electronics; the damage from strip mining; or eating foie gras.

But then, you know the old saying about discussions about politics and religion in civilized company...

Best,

TM

* (correction; the correct intent should have been clear from context but the mistake of missing the "not" was so egregious it had to be corrected in the body of the original post. TM)

second edit - not sure what happened, my last correction to add NOT to Mr. Torres and VC employees being NOT involved with the tobacco industry somehow screwed up the formatting, making the post essentially unreadable.


    
This message has been edited by thepurist178 on Nov 14, 2006 4:54 PM


 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

ps: cris, blades can be dangerous double edged weapons

November 14 2006, 12:52 PM 

hi, cris,

I hope my subject line wasn't more misleading than illuminating.

Independents trade as much on their "individuality" for their appeal to potential buyers as "brands" do on their "brands" - thus, I will base my PERSONAL buying decision on the INDIVIDUAL actions of independents, as much as I might let my PERSONAL buying decisions of a brand be influenced by the qualities - prestige, history, consistency, etc - of a brand.

That said, the INDIVIDUALS of a company have as much influence on my feelings on this matter as the so-called actions of a company (afterall, what is a company but the aggregated actions of individuals?)

Easier to assess for a one or five man operation, much harder for a multi-thousand person "company."

This is not a simple subject, cris, at least, not for me, and certainly not something that can be meaningfully discussed, without gross risk of misunderstanding or erroneous conclusions by others, in a few short posts or even multiple threads.

Cheers,

TM

 
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chris russell
(Login patekkie)
AP Discussion Group

Hi Thomas. Thanks for your always thoughtful reply. I don't actually wish to open...

November 14 2006, 1:46 PM 

a 'can of worms' on your fora about sensitive subjects like religion, politics, or business ethics, and I won't put forth my feelings here. It was just that I was surprised to see you mention concerns in connection with the kind of people behind the watches, and wondered if it extended further, to business ethics. Thanks again.


 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

They do, but "business ethics" are both

November 14 2006, 2:41 PM 

more complicated, and different, than personal conduct and ethics.

I know your position on this, Chris, and I respect you for that. As I respect your protective position on ladies and girls.

Thanks for not escalating this, Chris.

Best,

TM

 
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Imran
(Login idkuk)
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Sorry, but the Mercedes/VW comment really irritates me, would you buy a Japanese car?

November 14 2006, 2:01 PM 

.

 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

Why should it irritate you?

November 14 2006, 2:37 PM 

Yes, I would buy a Japanese car.

What's your point?



Ironically I thought of just your point (as I understand it now, without more clarification from you) just minutes after I hit 'post.'

"Thomas, I bet someone is going to take you to task for using the almost cliched German industry and Nazi connections example. You should have used Japan and Mitsubishi, or the Turks and Armenians, just to head this off, you dummy."

my apologies...

 
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imran
(Login idkuk)
PP Discussion Group

moving on.....

November 14 2006, 2:53 PM 

Dear Thomas,

Firstly, can I offer my sincerest greeting to you, I would have wanted my first reply to you to of been of a different nature. You are a credit to the world of horology, and for all your efforts, you have my gratitude, I mean that.
I just wish we could move forward, WW1 and WW2 were terrible, so was the A-Bomb in Japan. So was the massacre in Rwanda, damn mankind is so remarkable in his evilness I could go on forever.
The Germans that I have met and for that matter all the japanese (usually something to do with watches!) have enough of a burdon on their shoulders without us piling on more misery, we can not forgive Nazis, fascists bastards, but we can forgive those who today want no more than to live their lives just as we do. Infact thats wrong, they have done nothing wrong, so there is nothing for them to be forgiven for.
Members of my family died serving the British 8th army, but my two favourite cars are the Honda NSX and the Mercedes SL55 AMG but I would not buy a Lange...............................they are just damn ugly, in my not so humble opinion!!!!!

 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

May I humbly suggest you reading my comments again more carefully...

November 14 2006, 4:00 PM 

or maybe you did, and somehow, we are discussing something we both already agree on.

Hi (sorry, don't have a name to address you)

I could not agree with you more, and my comments in my original post basically said as much - "I don't NOT (emphasis added) buy..."

Thanks very much for your kind words, they are very much appreciated.

Sincerely,

TM

 
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Imran
(Login idkuk)
PP Discussion Group

Just shows...always read SLOWLY....humblest apologies sir.

November 14 2006, 4:08 PM 

.

 
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ThomasM
(Premier Login thepurist178)
AP Discussion Group

no problem, I do that myself. Cheers. nt

November 14 2006, 4:55 PM 

.

 
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Jay
(Login jasny)
AP Discussion Group

Nicely said.

November 12 2006, 5:41 AM 

Journes remind me of Bugattis, sexy, beautiful and fine engineering, a total piece of art with a french influence. Smith is more of a hand made craft that is a piece of art. Its' foray into engineering is the coaxial escapement which honors daniels and British watch making. It is very hard to compare them as they are both so beautiful in their own way. Rolls or Bugatti, both nice.

JMHO

Jay

 
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