Just wanted to register my presence at this board, regarding a thread concerning "alters" and other so-called "altered personaliuty states" I've recently started at Cliff's board. Since I now have personal experience with this issue, it has gained a great deal of credence.

If possible, I'd also like to verify that when dealing with a situation like this, not all information comes via "verifiable" sources (meaning the basic 5 senses) though critically, a great deal of this is also readily accessible.

Any further comments?

From my own experience, The human mind has a great deal of difficulty in accepting information gathered from non-verifiable' sources.

Though your intuition may tell you, quite clearly, what is going on and why, deductive reasoning takes hold and you begin to look for answers in more prosaic terms (i.e. psychological, cause and effect, even questioning the validity of your own experience).

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Dr. John Lily's work with 'altered' states of human consciousness, but one of his concepts deals with 'state-specific' logic.

Briefly stated, he implies that each state is subject to it's owns rules and regulations. When you try and apply observation of these rules of one state to another things become quite confusing. A sort of quantum physics of human consciousness.

I believe this dysfunction to be primarily spiritual in nature. I, also, had the feeling that this manifestation was far from accidental.

After encountering a second individual in my life, who displayed one of the same primary 'alters', I became convinced.

This is a rather illuminating story and I need to consider how best to frame it. I'm going to return to this topic later tonight but I have a quick question;
was this woman formally initiated into any 'esoteric' organization?

she's either not mentioned it or may be unaware.

I suppose it's possible to bury such things deeply in an obscure "alter" (note the double entendre). If she IS aware, then it's not something she talks about and neither does it appear to be anything she practices at present (she's a very seriously practicing Buddhist). If she HAD mentioned anything like this to me during casual conversation, it would have started multiple alarm bells ringing very early on -- though I've seen nothing to indicate that her religious practices are anything other than what they appear to be at present (unlike certain other behavior patterns).

Barring that, she appears to be a deeply spiritual person who is going through a lot of karma, and perhaps may have come into this with a great deal of karma as well.

Three of the most telling features about this person are:

-- the near-total "amnesia" around certain events, or certain times of her life - in spite of the fact that one can easily determine that she is a VERY high-functioning individual. [Her "general reputation" in certain circles is the exact opposite, so I was puzzled - I've seen her very quickly learn and perform work equal to that of the best in her field, in a matter of HOURS in fact, which is difficult-to-impossible in any artistic endeavor; in fact, she learns faster than virtually anyone I've ever met, and yet she has great difficulty "pulling it all together" and retaining it after the fact, even with near-constant practice; it's almost as if she were in a "state" during the initial event rather than her rational, "learning" mind, as one would expect.]

-- A complete "absence" of any information regarding her father during casual conversation: his name, his occupation, who he was, what he did, relation to the family, etc., though she is quite close to and involved with the remainder of her family.

-- the apparent "completeness" of transformation and intensity in her personality as she shifts (consciously or otherwise) between what I am calling "modes" of behavior (possible alters).

She does answer (at least nominally) and respond to her given name throughout these various state changes -- so this itself would lend to the illusion of "continuity" in anyone observing them, though it may be a trained response -- as in at least one state, I have seen her shake her head from side to side (in a subconscious "no") at the very mention of her given name. If this was truly a programmed response, then it would serve many functions (to protect the "alter", to confuse the opponent as to its true meaning, etc.), and in retrospect, the state change was so complete that this is exactly what it felt like.

As I said, there's more I could go into yet not all of it "computes" in the purely physical realm. I've been allowing it to filter into my conscious perceptions for several weeks now, and things are beginning to make a great deal of sense on other levels. Regardless, I don't believe this person is any immediate threat to me (physically or otherwise), and yet on the basis of past behavior she may be capable of inflicting serious "subtle" damage if pushed (see original post at Cliffs, "silent warrior" mode), the likes of which I had never before witnessed firsthand (it was an education in and of itself) -- and yes, I've "gotten around" a bit in certain circles and am definitely not a spiritual imbecile, so I was shocked when it finally occurred to me what had transpired.

I do know that she has at least one alias, and I seem to recall a second.

From everything you've told me so far, there can be little doubt we are describing the same phenomena. Of particular interest is the amount of energy or 'presence' displayed by the individual. They have a way of almost altering the atmosphere of their surroundings.

Also noteworthy is the number of 'alters' involved, in my situation I counted seven distinct aspects in addition to the 'original' personality. You detailed eight in you original post at Clifford's.

In addition to being highly intelligent and intuitive, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this woman is also quite attractive, in a unique sense.

Really, the only notable difference in our shared experiences are those of spiritual context.

The first person that I encountered with this strange... disorder (for lack of a better term) was initiated into the "Daughters of Job". This is a Masonic organization that she was highly reticent to discuss. She was introduced into this group at a very young age. From what little I could gather, these children were basically groomed to be as attractive, seductive and cunning as possible. Apparently there is some biblical reference to this procedure. This person was informally involved in Wicca and associated magick in later years.

The second individual's involvement was more formal. She was a member of the Golden Dawn and the O.T.O.
I had always been skeptical of the claims made by these practitioners.

This woman's knowledge of her craft was absolutely stunning. In an effort to convince me of the reality of these hidden forces she attempted an invocation of Isis.

Well, apparently something went wrong. What she successfully invoked was the primary 'alter' of the first individual I described. This aspect was absolutely flawless in it's presentation. Her voice, mannerisms, personality, manner of speech and even eye-color changed. She exhibited a sincere amount of jealousy and hostility with regards to the current relationship. She then proceeded to discuss aspects of 'our' earlier relationship which the 'host' could not have possibly been aware of.

When my friend came out of this altered state, she was confounded by the fact that she could remember absolutely nothing of what had transpired.

Now, most people reading this account will consider this occurrence to be highly implausible. And of course there's a few things that I haven't discussed.

But the point I'd like to make is that when dealing with this..disorder..you are dealing with an almost complete unknown. Extreme caution should be exercised.

That's my story... and I'm sticking to it.

test - - -

To be radically honest here dj, leave it alone. Don't you understand the word PRIVACY??? Be gratefull you had a regular childhood. Anyone can understand the
"alters" if you go down to your local bookstore and pick up anything on sexual child abuse. It's sickening!! And if you want to get an earfull, look in the phone book under "parents united" and go to a meeting. Sick F**King things you'll hear. The acronym for it is AMAC's. "Adults Mollested As Children". Then after you have availed your self to this sick subject
re-read your thread. Where ever "SHE" is, is none of
your business. I bet you're the type of person who even snoops on the neighbors. You didn't like it when someone was following you in a big white van, so back off. Some people like there anonymity and space.

Chem, cool site, glad you got the bugs worked out. It use to boot me offline. Good eye you have, I thought I recognized T/S.

I don't follow this threads subject, but personally I think that most of you would be surprised what evil really does lurks the earth...people are giving into the dark on a daily basis, and have no idea....they are trying to call the woman who drown 5 kids a manic depressive just because she had a baby, since when is mothering a downer....post-partum my ass...she had 5 kids, how many times did they come up for air and she forced them down...the death panaly should be carried out in the same manner as the perpetrator did the crime, that woman should be drown, 5 times....if she was evil or posessed,there would be no living with the horror of the crime..and death would be the only answer...

sorry if this is too deep...

T/S

Yes, dark and evil T/S. BTW, if chem doesn't mind the
drift a little on this thread, I've been looking for a
photo of a plane. I am unsure of the spelling. It is a
vintage, WWII plane, german. "vought corsaire" ??? It's the one with the swept back wings. I used to have
an old photo of one, and have searched alot of sites
only to find nothing. (darn spelling ). How are you?
Growing a garden this year? Mine is doing splendid.
Also, please don't knock me for my lack of html knowledge, any tips would be appreciated.

You're all way off base, incredibly off topic. In fact, if this continues I'll request you be removed from posting to this thread (since it was at Chem11's request that I initiated it myself, coming to this board from Clifford's).

None of you, however, is so far off base as the fool calling themselves "anonymous". It is patently obvious you have absolutely no practical knowledge of what you speak (or are merely feigning so as believable cover), and your advice is unworthy and out of context since all the information I have was volunteered by the person in question (I was definitely NOT interviewing her, or on a fact finding mission, if you get my drift).

For the benefit of the rest of us, I will follow this post with the original post from Clifford's. If you don't like the topic, then get the H-E-double-toothpicks out of the kitchen, or you can be removed.

If you're posting in this thread, the STAY ON TOPIC - AND KEEP YOUR UNINFORMED OPINIONS TO YOURSELF (this means anonymous).

This is not Disneyland, I am not Minnie Mouse, and we are NOT dealing with nor talking about "cartoon characters" here. This is real life, and I will tolerate none of your foolishness.

was originally begun at Cliff Carnicom's chemtrails EZ Board site. For reference (and topical background), it follows below, in it's entirety.

______________________________

NSAsucks, others - help spotting "alters"

I was curious as to how one might spot someone who had become, how shall we say, "acclimated" (by their own will or otherwise) into the various "arts" you and others have spoken of here at the board. I have one associate (friend) who recently "resurfaced" in my life, whose current behavior is quite bizarre to say the least (this was not an issue when they were on the "periphery" of my life).

For the benefit of other members of this board, I'll outline several of what I've determined may be traits related to this person's proposed "alters" (or alter - selves; likely fragmented portions of the personality, as related in great detail at many of the various mind control / Project Monarch / MK Ultra sites, etc.).

Mind you, these are distinct personality shifts that I have "perceived" as existing within someone -- and that I've had to reflect at great length on this, as the "normal" human mind is absolutely fanatical in it's desire for "continuity" and will manufacture continuity where none in fact exists, including advanced bi-polar disorders, obsessive/compulsive behavior, pronounced mania, and the like [just ask any psychologist about this if you don't believe me].

At various times, this person exhibits all of the following marked characteristics (usually and distinctly one at a time, with none of the "blending" one should normally perceive -- as if each were a distinct "mode" of behavior and not part of a fully integrated "self"):

-- the "hawk". VERY intuitive, uncannily cynical. Cuts to the core perceptually, doesn't bullshit. Often feigns "seriously playful" while in this mode, but is very intently focused if one watches on disinterestedly, and doesn't leave this mode until all information about the situation has been processed and "verified" (by a disinterested bystander).

-- the "hapless technophile". Very artistically sharp, very astute, and an extremely fast learner; yet seems to "pretend" (actively glosses over) basic functions of the programs they use in their work -- thus feigning and drawing out others for "help", in order to observe their behavior and engender "trust".

-- the "child". Perhaps the original alter. Very suggestible, in fact incredibly hyper suggestible, often engendering confusion to the point of emotional incapacity. These states, remarkably enough, are caused by nothing more than SIMPLE CONVERSATION with me (and no, I'm not a clinical hypnotist). I have literally "talked this person down" from these states more than once, and it is exactly as if they were having an addictive "flashback"; looking back, the "shift" seems incomplete at these times, and I was neither "commanding" nor requesting anything from this person, simply being there -- and thus perhaps their "incapacity", at not having to "perform" anything. (I now wonder if I had stumbled upon a "trigger" of some sort.)

-- the "mimic". Ability to mimic someone else's voice at will, though this person has never actively "stage acted"; also can use the voice in hypnotic tones and cadence quite easily during casual conversation.

-- the "deep thinker". Correct me if I'm wrong, but victims of personality "fragmentation" are often left with greatly diminished conventional mental capacities (due to the forced, compartmentalized usage pattern of their brain); this is "made up for" over time by use of specialized training in other more extraordinary "paranormal" abilities such as perfect recall, ESP, etc. Initially however, this "diminished capacity" is covered by the person's seeming instinctual ability to ask very intriguing questions -- often from a point of little or no knowledge of the subject matter, thus drawing out things they'll need to know later in order to "fill in" their intellectual credibility gaps, and thus complete the illusion of "interest" in a given topic and "intelligence".

-- the "teenager". Backs away from potential emotionally compromising situations by merely stating logical conundrums or out-of-context pop slogans at moments guaranteed to create maximum confusion; this allows the practicioner an easy retreat from the situation while the opponent's rational mind ponders.

-- the "informant". Occasionally speaks of bits of definite confidential-type information, though quite incompletely -- as if it's "bleeding over" into consciousness -- only to have heated reactions to their own words, and to topics which they themselves have brought up and are speaking about.

-- the "quiet warrior". Strikes unexpectedly from a position of supreme composure and great but hidden strength. Feigns indifference, uses opponent's own energy as "fuel" for an unexpected, full-on attack -- which is actually a highly effective psy attack (complete with subtle, sophisticated ripping/shredding energy motions and resultant, verifiable psy damage, though absolutely NO physical contact), very cleverly hidden under the "appropriate" cover of an emotionally charged argument which the opponent is "led" into and subsequently blamed for. The results are highly effective and, at minimum, emotionally incapacitating without appropriate intervention.


Add this to the fact that this person exudes a TREMENDOUS amount of energy -- though most of this is dissipated and "fragmented", as if "trying to hold all the parts of their life together" (a phrase which they've actively voiced during several casual moments) and they are consciously and obviously struggling in order to do so -- and yet, it is still a tremendous amount of energy overall, far more than the "average" person radiates (to anyone who is sensitive to these things), even more than the average "aware" person. To characterize, it resembles the force of energy of a Yogi or yogi initiate, even when this person seems "exhausted".

This person has spent some time "institutionalized" in the past, though I did not press for details (this is usually a difficult topic even for outpatients).

This person also recently confided that they feel they may have been "abused as a child" -- but has absolutely no recollection of it, and so there was no further conversation. They also never speak of their father, in spite of coming from a family of some means and social background, having been raised in boarding schools and the like.

This same person was once a physics major at a very well known technical institute (though, to the best of my knowledge, has never "worked" at anything even remotely related to the field of physics).

They've also had tremendous "habits" in the past, and often travelled for months on end to various of the Central and South Americas -- essentially, to the smuggling corridors -- with little or no knowledge of the "operations" themselves, though they can describe exactly how it all "worked".

They've also survived accidentally walking DIRECTLY into a hidden, deserted "bar" (in a known smuggling location) which was covered, wall to wall, with sophisticated electronic surveillance equipment manned by gun-toting Latin nationals in casual dress, and somehow managed to lie, look innocent, and walk away without any incident whatsoever [my initial reaction was that a "tourist" would have been shot and fed to the sharks].

I've seen this person go into the "child" state mentioned above, emotionally incapacitated and highly suggestible, by the mere presence of someone who was recognizably bipolar and a former heavy addict; this other person was "sought out" first by my friend in a casual setting, basically threw his life story out (to myself as well) in about 10 minutes, vascillating wildly during talk as if stricken by ADD [during this period he had made mention that his father worked for NASA in Huntsville, and then also out West somewhere]. I had the distinct impression that he was "acting out", whether in code or behavior -- and the effect he had on my friend, in this otherwise social setting, was pronounced and immediate (taking less than 10 minutes to induce); I spent the better part of a half-hour "talking her down".

As well, this friend of mine has admitted to knowing a number of Navy Seals and several spook-types, soldiers of fortune, etc. This person is on a very conversational basis with these folks, not strictly "casual" at all, and can ask them about some fairly "difficult" topics whever she cares to reach them.

SO.

Anyone out there with any pertinent info or direct experience with deliberatele "manufactured" personality "alters" (a la Monarch, MK, etc.) and the like, please respond. Also, NONE BUT INFORMED SPECULATION, PLEASE. Folks with actual knowledge of such things perferred -- I know we have several who frequent this board, and I would greatly appreciate your comments in this matter.

If, on the other hand, this seems a more appropriate topic for another board, please refer me to the specific web address and I'll continue this conversation there.

I'm posting this publicly as a notice to others who may have had someone "unusual" enter their lives only quite recently -- generally, someone who was only of a "peripheral" interest in your life in the past, perhaps just an acquaintance, co-worker or the like, who has only recently assumed a role of more importance (for no apparent reason) -- though if the situation is studied, this is largely due to their own presence and at their own request.

Welcome to The Matrix, folks.

DJ and Chem11: I find your discussion fascinating. I have run across people with various psychiatric conditions, but this whole multiple personality disorder thing is completely new to me. (I've heard about it in movies and books, but not in the real world.) Keep talking, if you don't mind.

Djembemon, thanks for posting the original query. I was reticent to discuss this topic at Cliff's because I knew just how easy it would be to misinterpret. Unless you have real world experience with the subject matter, it's simply not going to make a whole lot of sense.

I'd appreciate it if everyone made an an effort to stay on-topic on this particular thread, as well.

Sexual abuse may very play a role in some of these cases. Both of the people in my situation had been assaulted. However, this occurred in adulthood and after the condition began to manifest itself.

Note: for whatever reason, if you do not fill out the 'your name' section of your post you will be listed as 'anonymous'. Hardly the case, since your log-in will be listed directly beneath it.

Yes, these are real people we're dealing with here, not "abstracts" or lab rats -- regardless of how they may have been treated or "handled".

Well, we're not really talking about traditional MPD here. This is different. A given amount of "surface integration" is definitely present -- for instance, you'll get a definite response when using the person's given name -- and yet, the mental state change (and resultant characteristics) are so extraordinary that, like I said, I'm surprised it took me as long as it did to notice.

If I'm not mistaken, true MPD may not "lap over" so readily, and distinct personalities may be present, with distinct names -- is which case, despondence should result from "normal" communication.

That said, the only "overlap" between personality alters here may be the "expected response" which one gets when using the other's given name; that's what I've noticed. It's as if several very different people live in the same household, yet they all answer to the same name (though they may not HAVE the same name) -- so when they get a "telephone call" (outside communication), things get a little confusing for a time, though eventually they seem to be able to "work it out" amongst themselves.

As well, I can only remember one alter which seemed to NOT wish to acknowledge the given name, though that side (the "quiet warrior") DID appear to disavow, non-verbally and ambiguously, upon at least two occasions during said "alter", that the given name was not recognized by giving me an almost immediate side-to-side head-shaking motion, the universal for "no"; at the time, I mistook this for a response to what I was saying (but since I had yet to actually say anything of content except this person's name, that would be absurd to assume).

I'm told by behaviorists that the body doesn't lie. PAY ATTENTION. The average, ordinary, "everyday" conscious mind is an absolutly fanatical about making EVERYTHING in the world "congruent" and "seamless" -- regardless of how disassociatied or incongruent the event or behavior may actually be.

It is rarely the case in life that an affected, psychotic or "insane" individual (or anyone else, for that matter) will see where their behavior is in any way "chaotic" -- different, perhaps, but certainly not dissociative, fragmented or chaotic -- and their minds must constantly exert thought and energy toward "filling in these gaps" until that becomes second nature.

Hence afflicted persons may often seem "preoccupied", "distant" or maybe "not quite all there" as it takes considerable energy to accomplish the "seamlessness" that the conventional "personality" requires; yogi's and saints may well accomplish a genuine state of "non-person-ness", but most of the rest of us would be entirely lost and considered as having a "psychotic episode" in such a state.

To my mind, this ability of several highly dissociative, cognitively compartmentalized "alters" recognizing a common name sounds very much like the "PERSONALITY OVERLAY" function I've read about, one of the crowning glories of mind alteration -- that of making all the forced, coerced and fragmented parts of a person's manufactured and tutored "personality" appear congruent to the casual (and even intimate) observer.

I hope this helps clarify a bit more of what I'm trying to relate. It's really difficult to describe without having experienced it directly and even then, often IT'S ONLY THE LASTING IMPRESSION of a particular behavioral pattern or a given "event" which gives one clues as to what may be happening.

Chem 11 -- am I correct in speculating that persons suffering from this may also appear to HAVE THEIR MOODS "PUNCTUATED" HEAVILY and on a regular basis (as in virtually ALWAYS, if you look back at events), and yet the behavorial characteristics of each supposed "mood" are quite separate and distinct.

By this I mean that this "punctuation" occurs without the usual "bleed over" one would expect from a nominally integrated individual, such as an otherwise highly intuitive and intelligent person becoming a complete nincompoop during a routine discussion or activity, or not "knowing" meanings to certain commonly used words (weven as they are avid readers), etc. To me, this basically describes a state of temporary "overwhelm" during a "shift".

On the surface, this could also easily appear "bipolar"; that's why I'm being careful to make distinctions.

If I understand your question, and I think I do, then yes- your are correct in regards to this emotional 'punctuation'. From what I've seen it can be most irrational and unexpected. In fact, it seems to precipitate a change in the dominant personality. Almost as if something is 'triggering' this change in consciousness.

I'm something of a student of behavioral analysis. In 90% of the general population it is a rock solid tool for estimating a person's truthfulness. The 10% for which it is utterly useless are the mentally ill.

In both of my experiences, BA remained effective. If either person was suffering from a true 'mental illness', this should not have been the case. One person had been diagnosed with panic disorder, but this is a poorly understood condition and I do NOT believe it to be the result of a chemical imbalance.
I deeply suspect it to be the result of buried trauma, at least in this instance.

I've also noticed a great deal of conflict with regards to these personality overlays. Eventually, the more aggressive 'alter' becomes successful in assuming the dominant role. It is at this point that the 'hosts'
original, core personality begins to virtually disappear.

Which, of course, is very sad. It sounds to me like you have far more 'behind-the-scenes' resources at your disposal than I did, Djembemon. I hope you are successful in finding some method of dealing with this individual's disorder and neutralizing it.

There is one method that I found effective. It involves convincing the primary alter that it's host is not necessarily the best vehicle to pursue it's agenda with. If properly enticed, this alter will abandon it's host and take root in another, more worthy vessel.

I would not recommend this course of action. Unless the new host is willing to satisfy the alter's primary desires and objectives, it will return to it's original host.

Yet another ill-informed post.

I'm in full agreement with Chem11 that what I dealt with was clearly NOT a typical "mental disorder" -- and that what he is describing also clearly is not. The fact that, between us, we are describing THE BEHAVIOR OF THREE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSONS is obviously lost on you -- and yet we've both been able to "predict" certain specific intangibles about these other person's observed behaviors.

That's rad (and your assumptive disinclinations are cold as hell).

I've been around numerous manics, bipolars, holy rollers (in states of ecstacy), junkies, abusers, heavy users, alcoholics, dopers, speed freaks, control freaks, schitzophrenics in all their free-associative glory, full-blown empaths, garden-variety sociopaths, corporate megalomaniacs, and yes, even the occasional episodic psychotic. (If you're wondering, this also includes any number of the so-called "lower disorders".) So YES, the boy gets around, and NO, he does not "discriminate" or judge (as you would libel), for I wouldn't be who or where I am if I did.

Still I've never seen anything comparable to this.

You're either looking for my approval or my acquiescence -- niether of which will you get. Nor will I be baited by your "bunker" thread, any more than I would reply to Duncan Kunz or Philmont (except to baste their arses in their own "collective" misconceptions)...

The offending post has been removed. All particpants have been informed of SCA rules concerning posting.

...to our regularly scheduled 'programming'.

Dj, have you been able to identify any primary or dominant alter at this stage?

Chem11 -- didn't mean to get interrupted, but all is well. Some specific replies to your last post:

"this emotional 'punctuation'... most irrational and
unexpected... seems to precipitate a change in the dominant personality."

Absolutely. And there is no such thing as a "smooth" mood or attitude transition for the person I'm speaking of. One analogy would be as if shifting gears in a car, like when going from 3rd to 4th gear (or most any other) that the gears will always "grind", even several minutes after the "shift" has been completed and the car has remained rolling in the new gear. Further, each "gear" seems to have it's own distinct set of traits (unlike "forward" or "reverse", plus-or-minus momentum). As per "triggers", yes, I felt that something about my speaking patterns may have been acting as a trigger -- though that is a bit too self-centered to hold any credibilty.

"In both of my experiences, BA (behavorial analysis) remained effective. If either person was suffering from a true 'mental illness', this should not have been the case."

I agree. True mental illness is not a self-directed process, hence the 'chaos'. Had I known more BA at the time (I'm acquiring training as we speak), I'm sure even more enlightening finds would have resulted.

"I deeply suspect it (the root of these 'behaviors') to be the result of buried trauma, at least in this instance."

Yes. Not much else could acocunt for the discrepancy. In hindsight, this behavior seems a good deal like a 'string of miniature PTSD episodes over time' -- quite noticable, yet subtle and distinctive as such.

"Eventually, the more aggressive 'alter' becomes successful in assuming the dominant role. It is at this point that the 'hosts' original, core personality begins to virtually disappear."

Also my experience, to a tee. It's as if the dominant alter is trained to 'oversee' and squelch any infarction of the 'ground rules' -- such as 'no getting emotionally close to anyone' (which admittedly seems pretty much a miracle in and of itself, considering what the 'core personality', the original un-altered person, may have gone through at certain points in time).

"It sounds to me like you have far more 'behind-the-scenes' resources at your disposal than I did..."

No, not at all. I wasn't joking when I said it was out of my hands, and that she's probably in the best care she could get (spiritually). Sorry to be cryptic, but it's the best I can do publicly. She seems to have fallen in with a bunch of "good eggs" at this point in time -- perhaps, perhaps not. It's not my concern.

________________________

Thoughts as per previous posts:

These persons radiate ENORMOUS amounts of personal spiritual "energy". I'm not all that "adept" as well and yet I could easily sense it (it's not "charisma", either).

Had I been around this person longer, I likely would have discovered more than the eight "alters" I originally posted. I doubt that the full range of personalities was put forth for display (and yet I also doubt I would have enjoyed such a display, as they seemed increasingly bent toward violence).

"Attractive in a unique sense" - yes, though not in any "traditional", "magazine" sense.

Possible history of abuse -- yes, I would think so, likely beginning early, probably no later than age seven.

Notes on "society" and possible secret society affiliations:

-- family at one time had impeccable "standing" in the highest social and country clubs, so Masonic connections are equally likely (though nothing was mentioned).

--As well, this person has numerous friends / associates in Mc-D Douglas and Locheed (aerospace), which is a rather odd affiliation for someone who has been working at a "grunt level" in a media operation most of their adult life, doesn't "fly" (pilot), and has never been in the military or police -- these persons were thus likely "introduced" by relatives, using whatever means. [Hell - my grandfather was a prominent figure in the aerospace mechanics industry, and I don't know anybody from any of these companies -- I find this a bit intriguing.] In this instance then, aerospace affiliations + specific social factors = high potential of NASA connections; NASA then is less than or = to "project paperclip", and all that this might imply for this person's past.

Oh - here's another kicker, you tell me what it's worth: At one time, this person's family definitely lived in your immediate area, I would say right before they moved to Georgia (many years ago, I would guess)... I find it odd, however, that she told me emphatically she "grew up in the South" -- by my estimation, I would have placed her as having grown up on the east coast had she not said this. [Perhaps some memories are "optional"?]

I must take back something I posted earlier.

Every time one of these "losers" [the "I'll just pretend I don't-have-a-clue" type posters] replies, then this information magically moves up to the top of the forum.

Objections withdrawn -- but at least try to stay on topic.

So do these people have long-term friends? Or do they wear people out fairly rapidly?

...of a conversation I had with subject #1 at one point. I was complaining that dealing with the situation was wearing me out. Her response was "Hey, at least you'll never get bored. Two for one." To which I replied it was more like seven. She then stated "Even better. You've got your own harem!"

What a nightmare.

Well, at least I know I'm not the only who get's involved in these implausible situations. Thanks, Djembemon.

MPD fact #1: Women with MPD outnumber men with MPD 9:1.

In a five year period between 1980 and 1985 an epidemic of MPD occurred in which more cases were documented than in the previous two centuries. Rather than see if there were any societal or environmental causes contributing to this alarming epidemic, the authors of DSM-IV changed the criteria for diagnosis and recommended the use of the term 'dissociative disorder'.

To fit this diagnosis, an individual must now have an experience of amnesia.

I assume you are aware of that whole JPL/Jack Parsons/Crowley connection, correct?

I'll tell you what. I've done quite a bit of travelling and Seattle, Wa has more genuinely screwed up people than anywhere else I've been. Not per capita, either. LA has a much larger population and a reputation for attracting a lot of 'unique' individuals. Doesn't hold a candle to SEAWA, though...

3T3L1
"So do these people have long-term friends? Or do they wear people out fairly rapidly?"

I don't know the answer to this. My feeling is that long-term, they need to remain 'casual' around most anyone they come in contact with; 'intimacy' appears to be a one-way street -- that is, from you to them.

As for day-to-day contact in social settings, you'll likely hear others describe them in such terms as, "Oh, don't worry, that's just (their name)"; excuses are made for the person's odd irrationality and mercurial behavioral changes, as MOST OF US WOULD MUCH RATHER BELIEVE IN THE 'CONTINUITY' AND 'PSYCHOLOGICAL INTEGRITY' OF OUR IMMEDIATE FRIENDS AND ASSOCIATES. Such thoughts pacify us even as they reinforce our social mores and myths (which would indicate precisely why 'personality overlays' are created during said conditioning, as a reliable 'cover').

As well, their 'self', or more exactly what can be said to be left of it, absolutely craves your attention while their created alters crave the 'practice' of their craft and endless 'information' about you (so that it appears as if your feelings and attention towards them is being reciprocated).

When in contact with such a person, you should remember that you are, without doubt, categorically and with the benefit of complete and total recall, constantly being 'sized up' for weaknesses for potential use against you in any future conflict, regardless of how 'helpless' that person might appear to be at any given moment (for when you 'open' yourself in your 'caretaker' mode of consciousness, the 'record' of your entire life becomes available to them -- your own 'compassion' therefore becomes your enemy).

My best intuitive source tells me in no uncertain terms that the person I describe here is, through no conscious will of her own, a product of direct and willful outside manipulation -- and that "management", if you will, of this effort has been "handed over" somewhat (just don't ask me to explain it any better than that).

I would further speculate that 'room mate' or 'live-in' situations would be next to impossible for these persons. Their need for 'space', or for intense and extreme periods of solitude, is too great to tolerate any such random, casual intrusions. This is not to say they won't have boyfriends / girlfriends, just that these relationships will remain almost entirely at the 'easy' and 'business' level (if you catch my drift), or they will be swiftly jettisoned with the rest of life's 'distractions'.

I would further suspect that these persons, if they were ever to successfully leave the 'control' aspects of their original training and thus reintegrate their true, God-given personalities and memory, should become fantastically powerful 'spiritual' entities here on the physical plane -- lay psychologists, healers, possibly yogis, perhaps even saints. They have tremendous energetic 'stores' gained throughout a lifetime of extreme tests and travails (which the average person could not even comprehend). Should they ever break free of this 'conditioning', I would expect they would reciprocate their newfound freedom as a means to liberate other such souls, or else celebrate it in the practice of pure religious service. [I'm informed that such 'breaks' are an extremely difficult and rare undertakings, however -- so thorough is the scope and grip of conditioning.]

Chem11:

"MPD fact #1: Women with MPD outnumber men with MPD 9:1."

Wow. It is also a 'well known' fact in certain circles (both occult and virtually any society of spiritual adepts, Christian Mysticism included) that on average, women are more powerful than men as 'adepts' and also 'learn' the practices exponentially faster than men. By and large, however, the progenitors and 'gatekeepers' of the traditions and societies are usually male.

"In a five year period between 1980 and 1985 an epidemic of MPD occurred in which more cases were documented than in the previous two centuries. "

Interesting. This oddly and exactly coincides with the 'Reaganization' of American consciousness and politics. I've characterized it as the 'capitalization of American spiritual life'; further, this may constitute a direct 'punctuation' and 'clean psychological break' (otherwise known as a fragmentation) from the drug-induced, post-Vietnam malaise of the Carter years, post-Nixon era, and the 1970s -- still more conditioning on a national scale? (Students of social politics, you'll notice that there hasn't been anyone even remotely resembling an old-line, traditional 'blue-collar Democrat' as a serious threat to the dominant power structure since this period of time -- that's longer than a generation now -- and yet the vast majority of Americans are earning less in terms adjusted income while working more hours overall than they did during the 1960s.)

"I assume you are aware of that whole JPL/Jack Parsons/Crowley connection, correct?"

Vaguely. A brief refresher would be in order, if you will, particularly 'Parsons' (?).

"changes in eye color" happening to your friend while in this state -- WOW. I need to pay closer attention. This challenges 'medical science', though I don't doubt you, since you noticed it.

Also: Any specific references to Dr. John Lily and 'state specific consciousness'? I tend to draw from Julian Jayne's work as well as several others in this area.




Another round of related thoughts:

Chem 11, as per your earlier mention of your friend trying to 'invoke' during ritual only for her to find herself in a recognizable alter: This strikes several chords, one of which is the idea of "alters" being built upon collective archetypes (which has been described in detail at several of the mind control sites) -- I'm seeing these manufactured 'alters' as being perhaps Jungian in nature, and therefore 'readily accessible' to anyone with appropriate training, insight, intuition or indoctrination.

As well, the ability of 'shared memory' she exhibited, or more precisely that of having a 'direct connection' to the 'consciousness' of another 'individual', would bespeak of this being accessed AT THE LEVEL OF 'COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS'.

One could mistakenly characterize such behavior as 'occult' or 'psychic', but these are merely BUZZWORDS DESCRIBING A PROCESS which was used to arrive at the truly 'collective' state. (I've heard this described by other adepts as 'reading the Akashic record', perhaps yet another buzzword for the collective, perceptible energy field of human consciousness.)

As relating to my experience, Castenada's Don Juan Mateus described the warrior state to Carlos as "the place of no pity". I can assure all that you'll understand exactly what this means if you ever come into conflict with one of these persons. They will smile, 'love' (merely attention) and charm you directly into your place of absolute emotional vulnerability, and then with ever-so-slight an 'inclination' and no warning, swiftly and deftly strike you directly in your weakest area with extreme, pinpoint accuracy -- as if they grew up with you, side-by-side on the same block and you were both the closest of friends -- yet they may have only 'known' you for a few weeks.

Another thing I noticed about the 'quiet warrior" alter (which correlates directly to your experience) is that during the attack I described, part of what I was told was VERBATIM (word for word), and yet IT WAS SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE VERY CLOSE TO ME HAD TOLD ME A DOZEN YEARS BEFORE which had remained in my consciousness, though unheeded; this other person is definitely not suffering from the same conditioning, and is virtually unknown to the current woman. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY in 'normal consciousness' for her to know about these events, nor to know the exact verbiage which had been used more than a decade before by the other person -- in fact, I had all but forgetten the original event itself. And yet here it was, surfacing again during a moment of my supreme vulnerability.

To note, this occured IMMEDIATELY AFTER the 'ripping, shredding' energy motions I described in the original post at Cliff's. I have also been able to verify independently that indeed a 'ripping and shredding' of my natural energy field had occurred, though I was not actively seeking this information, thinking that this recent event had merely taken place at an 'emotional' or paychological level [though I can assure you the total effect is quite devastating on all levels of one's being...]

They will smile, 'love' (merely attention) and charm you directly into your place of absolute emotional vulnerability, and then with ever-so-slight an 'inclination' and no warning, swiftly and deftly strike you directly in your weakest area with extreme, pinpoint accuracy

I would say this appears to be their 'primary' motivation.

When in contact with such a person, you should remember that you are, without doubt, categorically and with the benefit of complete and total recall, constantly being 'sized up' for weaknesses for potential use against you in any future conflict, regardless of how 'helpless' that person might appear to be at any given moment (for when you 'open' yourself in your 'caretaker' mode of consciousness, the 'record' of your entire life becomes available to them -- your own 'compassion' therefore becomes your enemy).

I could go on and on quoting from your last post, Djembemon, but what would be the point? If I didn't know better I would say were describing the same host(s).

This is, as you say, quite rad. I spent no small amount of time yesterday with my face buried in various references on abnormal psychology. There is more insight and observational data on this single thread than I have been able to find anywhere else. It simply doesn't exist.

This leads me to believe that we are describing something of a new phenomena. Now, believe it or not, I spent 18 months in a relationship with one of these individuals. Having exhausted any hope of finding answers from traditional psychiatry, I turned to more esoteric disciplines.

I believe I touched on the Jack Parsons/JPL subject on another thread. I'll bump it up. There should be a brief history of his involvement with the occult, as well as a link to a text describing his invocation of an entity, archetype or overlay calling itself Babalon.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something oddly similar to what he describes and my own experiences with this 'primary' alter. I believe the thread's title references the face on Mars and an Egyptian Gov't official....

Fascinating, I'll have to probe the links further at some point. Pasedena -- wow, that stuff is wild. I wonder if the acronym "NASA" has other lesser-known meanings?

Other stuff
I've also been unable to find any realistic answers to the recent situation within the realm of "traditional" psychology.

Just yesterday (largely as a result of contributions to this thread) I perused a local reading room, located a contemporary text on MPD, read several sections, and was amazed at what the author DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE A CLUE ABOUT -- such as the sometimes extreme nature of the potential "causes", or the seeming all-encompassing nature of the psychological changes which could result, or the complete lack of ANY mention of an obvious "FRAGMENTATION AND POSSIBLE REARRANGEMENT OF THE CONSCIOUS MIND" (though this same text did make passing mention of resulting Post Traumatic Stress Disorders) -- as if these things aren't being discussed academically, or are beyond the realm and comprehension of all but the most "theoretical" researchers.

Well, and then here we are.

Academically then, it would appear as if we are dealing with "fairy tale psychology" when in fact both you and I seem to be describing verifiable, concrete, perhaps "duplicate" personalities between at least three persons in different regions of the world which would appear to be acquired, learned "alters" and overlays which, according to contemporary texts, SHOULDN'T EXIST -- certainly not in any sort of predictable way, for then this phenomenon could be proven "learnable" or "worthy of study" (which I definitely believe it is and has been -- as well as the ability to learn to "see" and discern persons who have undergone such tremendous "conditioning").

I sense that what was NOT in print about MPD is truly mind-blowing and that when reading about it, one has to learn to even "perceive the dots" as much as connect them...

My experience with this other person lasted slightly more than three months. I'm honestly amazed that I was able to form any clear or informed opinions about it whatsoever in such a short period of time, but for the fact that external circumstances seem to have been challenging me throughout most of my adult life and my response has always been to rise to those challenges and move on, heightening my intuition and awareness. I am using this current situation's focus and momentum to further my understanding of it (and hence my original post at Cliff's).

I agree, I've also not been able to find anything like this thread elsewhere on the web with exception of some firsthand accounts from former victims of the process itself (these are incredible, gut-wrenching first-person accounts -- stuff that would make most psychologists babble incoherently if they had to endure even one hour of such treatment).

All I can think is that, while I was placed in the "caretaker" mode (and thus "talking this person down" from their apparently most helpless, most "distressed" and needy "alter"), that the normally practiced "exchange" during this invoked state was surprisingly two-way, and also had to have occurred outside of my conscious awareness -- for not in my wildest imagination did I think I would ever be writing about something like this, most certainly not as a "first person" enocunter.

As for psychology, you can't "treat" or even "recognize" what you don't understand. Likewise, you can't "talk anyone down" from somewhere you've never been yourself, or are otherwise unwilling to go. This is definitely taking place on a spiritual plane -- and I'm guessing the scope of it may be more than most are willing to admit in their everyday consciousness (as was I at one point).

And the "primary motivation" of the controlling overlay personality -- yes, I believe they are definitely on a type of "search and destroy" mission which can have variants. That alter, or any fragment of it (which I believe I caught only one aspect of) is clearly an astute and adept hunter -- a "Diana the Huntress," if you will, perhaps unbeatable in her element -- though the chosen methodology of the overlay very closely resembles what Don Juan Mateus describes to Castenada as a "stalker of power" in every conceivable fashion.

I'm going to take liberty of transcribing some of the relevant quote from Parson's invocation of the alternate personality calling itself 'Babalon':

9. Now know that I, BABALON, would take flesh and come among men.

13. Thou shalt offer all thou art and all thou hast at my altar, witholding nothing. And thou shalt be smitten full sore and thereafter thou shalt be outcast and accursed, a lonely wanderer in abominable places.

16. And thereafter madness, all in vain. Thus it has been,multi-form. How thou hast burned beyond.

25. I shall provide a vessel, when or whence I say not. Seek her not, call her not. Let her declare. Ask nothing. Keep silence. There shall be ordeals.

26. My vessel must be perfect. This is the way of her perfection.

31. I will provide the place and the material basis, thou the tears and blood.

35. And let her be in all things wise, and sure, and excellent.

36. But let her think on this: my way is not in the solemn ways, or in the reasoned ways, but in the wild free way of the eagle, and the devious way of the serpent, and the oblique way of the factor unknown and unnumbered.

37. For I am BABALON, and she my daughter, unique, and there shall be no other women like her.

39. The first servants are chosen in secret, by my force in her--a captain, a lawyer, an agitator, a rebel--I shall provide.

62. There is no other way, dear fool, it is the eleventh hour.

http://www.hiddengod.org/parsons.html

Having read, some observations on Parson's writings:


"13. Thou shalt offer all thou art and all thou hast at my altar, witholding nothing."

Yes, offering 'everything' (including those very persons who would otherwise care about them, few as they may be and without cause).

"26. My vessel must be perfect. This is the way of her perfection."

I see a common thread here, the note of requirements of 'perfection' as a commandment to the thoroughly profane (simple human flesh and understanding); thus a logical and philosophical conundrum is obscured, though designed to muddle and confuse: good becomes bad, there is no right or wrong, as if 'absolutes' do not exist (even as said deity claims infallible knowledge of those same 'unknowable' absolutes).

"31. I will provide the place and the material basis, thou the tears and blood."

This is another common thread, that of the 'promise' of 'deliverance', seen in every major religious pholosophy of the world (though here, it is quite vague and preemptory indeed).

"35. And let her be in all things wise, and sure, and excellent."

This is what I would call 'the bait' of the sales pitch, an appeal to the universal and innate human desire for 'perfection' -- usually only an ideal, but here promised in the form of a physical entity.

I had comments on some of the rest, but found that I could not linger at that page after reading. The logic in many places is twisted and very disturbing. (For instance, subtly and specifically calling for the 'blood of birth' for a ritual -- is this magickal symbolism for the actual birth afterleavings themselves, or infant sacrifice? But in either case, it is abominable).

The consciousness that produced those words seems bipolar indeed, as well as very left-brained (and therefore more of the verbal type), otherwise transcription would not have been necessary. It is often in this last point (that of 'verbosity', versus what could be termed as 'silent knowing' or 'wisdom') as well as the desire for 'perfection' (one hallmark of the obsessive-compulsive) which separates any sort of 'macigkal' practice from most other forms of spirituality.

Yogis, shamans, Christians, and many others often speak of an 'awakening', or of receiving a 'knowing' of the truth, a sudden 'realization' or 'vision' wherein all is understood or seen, much as with the Biblical reference toward dispensation of 'the peace that passeth all understanding'.

Such events themselves cannot be 'transcribed' -- for words alone are inadequate to do so, and by themselves sanctify nothing. Experience alone is the teacher, and the pupil must 'experience' to understand -- no 'invocation' is adequate, no description can suffice or substitute. [These last states, universally recognized as the heraldry and hallmarks of the true divine nature, as all sadly missing in Parson's deity -- yet she has nonetheless made certain to bastardize several key precepts, likely as means of taking advantage of the confusion her earlier injunctions would have already caused in 'uncertain', infirm, malleable or as yet 'unformed' minds.]

Further, the imparting 'power' or deity in most of the world's major religious pholosophies is virtually always considered to be the Spirit (capital intended), or the Creator of Heaven and Earth; all other 'spiritual presences', when mentioned, are seen as subordinate and any human intermediary deemed necessary for an 'enlightenment' is seen merely as having 'power' and 'presence' purely by will of the Divine Being, and most specifically not of their own accord; this 'granting' of absolute, near 'God-like' power by Parson's BABALON is also a common thread throughout many 'magickal' writings -- and is perhaps megalomaniacal in origin, as well as delusional.

That's also not to say that this obviously 'created thoughtform' has no energy. Certainly it now does.




Chem11, I think I see where you may be going with this -- the possibility of "archetype as demon," or even perhaps as an "invoked energetic entity". Please clarify as you feel you can. And again, like I said in my original post,

"Welcome to the Matrix."

I love it, Djembemon. You are attempting to psychoanalyze a demonic entity...

"Tell me, BABALON. What was your childhood like?"

"Well, Doc. I came from a very powerful and influential family. I know my father had a great deal of responsibilities, being Lod of the Abyss and all. Still, I can't help but feel I was somehow... neglected."

"I see. And how does that make you feel...?"

"Angry. Very, very angry. Sometimes I vent a little by possessing the material forms of those bastardized, earthbound monkeys and shredding their pitiful, ignorant souls into an unrecognizable mulch. And sometimes...sometimes...I cry...WAAAA..."

"That's it BABALON. Let it out. Let it all out."

Okay. So I'm not going to be quitting my day job any time soon. This brief attempt at levity will be appreciated much more after I relay the rest of the day's wonderful news.

I find that document to be uniquely disturbing on many psychic and psychological levels, as well. I haven't exactly gone over it with a fine tooth comb. After re-reading portions of it today, I discovered some disturbing details in the text of the rituals that lead me to believe that the invocation I witnessed was far from accidental. I make reference to the intended invocation of 'Isis', which is touched on in this document and the "Seventh Aire", which is in the Enochian 'language'. Both played a part in the 'accidental' invocation I observed.

Well, that was enough for me. I decided to return to lighter fare (exploring a covert military operation involved in spraying most of the free world with harmful substances) and found this instead:

"Across the Gulf of Mexico, near Cape Canveral Space Center. Another woman killed her children on the same day! This other incident was not publicized by the media. This was also the summer soltice and the solar eclipse seen in Africa. Any connection? I think so.

This woman did not have postpartum depression. She tried to commit suicide two years ago, long before the birth of her last child. She appears and acts as a programmed sex-slave. She performed a ritual sacrifice on the summer solstice. Her husband was interviewed on television saying that he still loves her and that she, the woman he loves, did not kill his children. It was another "persona" within her. That suggests compartmentalization of her personality which is the result of programming and abuse."

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000154.html

What do I make of all this? Hard to say. From everything I've been able to gather, this phenomena is best understood from either a Jungian archetypical standpoint or from a purely spiritual or occult perspective. Perhaps we will find that there is little difference.

As it happens, I was actually analyzing more the mind of the so-called "channeler" than the "deity" itself.

As I understand it, said deity (in our dimension anyway) is little more than a thoughtform -- until it has a certain amount of chaotic, uncontrolled 'energy' with which to latch onto and then thereby manifest itself in other, more physical fashion.

Being largely a Christian mystic, my feeling is that the 'archetype' itself can be either of several forms -- myth, 'deity', thoughtform, pre-conscious recollection, collective memory, etc. -- though in reality, and especially in this dimension (the third), the final result itself seems to matter not. What counts is the INTENTION of the energies summoned / invoked / felt, and thus called upon, and then presumably acted upon (for lots of persons have 'murderous thoughts', though fortunately few act upon them).

Going back to the original discussion: If, say, "Dianna the Huntress" were invoked during the programming of a fragmented alter, and the tortured subject is thus carefully 'instructed' to see all that is 'not natural' (being defined as birds, trees, flowers, rocks, etc.) as being a 'threat to the wellbeing of her natural forest', then such an activation at a later time could perhaps cause a mother in 'altered state' to fail to recognize her very children as her own, and instead view them as 'intruders' upon the 'pristine beauty' (more likely, 'cunning simplicity') of her own interior world, simply through the power of transferrence (or 'trance'-ferrence?) and suggestion.

Another example: If this person (rather these persons, the mothers ritually murdering their own flesh) had been repeatedly tortured as children themselves -- as likely they were, unspeakably so -- then in only a slightly altered or even 'protective' state of mind, they could very easily be influenced to rationalize that they were merely attempting to 'save their own children' from a fate which they themselves cannot even comprehend at the conscious level.

I'm making no claims as to innocence or guilt here. I'm simply theorizing about disgusting twists of 'logic', as this is often how the tortured hypnogogic mind of a mentally distressed person works.

Again, it's my belief that 'deities' merely 'impart' -- that is, without a modicum of free energy to latch onto in the physical world, their influence in less than minimal since they themselves are not part of this dimension; it would be a lot like saying that you or I are going to consciously have a direct influence on persons and events at a dimension four levels beyond the 'physical' -- how then, or even how to begin? (Such restrictions obviously do not apply to the 'Creator' or originating energy of that dimension, however; for if one consciously "builds one's self a home", it is then likely that they intend to reside within it for as long as they choose.)

So my analytical take on the writings was twofold:

First, as a brief analysis of the psychiatric state of the 'channeling personality' (and IMHO, the dude was seriously flawed); and then second, to look into the 'motivations' and methodology proferred by none other than the channelled 'deity' or thoughtform itself, by it's only means of affecting human lives [and thus, the written record of it's channeled state] as a method of obtaining any truth to it's claims of authenticity -- that is, to its true ability as a true 'mover and shaker' in this, the third dimension.

It can be exhibited that 'BABALON' (as she apparently and perhaps illiterately likes to be called) is little more than an angry cosmic fart in a whirlwind while without a crooning team of dimented disciples kissing her 'wanton' feet...and yet, through Crowley and now many others, we can easily see the effects of this derangement, anger, and mental 'displacement' (yes, mental displacement alone is entirely adequate) when injuncted and used against the rest of 'unsuspecting mankind' who would not bow down and celebrate 'the whore'.

I'm not suggesting that this diety is responsible for the crimes mentioned in your last post -- we don't really know. But the concept is the same -- and I would have to agree, at least one of the women in question appears to have accessed her most deadly 'alter' in the company of her own children, much to the surprise of even her husband.

This hardly seems like an 'accident', and yes -- I can see why you might begin to 'freak' (for yes, you were definitely placing yourself at some risk during your presence at that ceremony).

I have friends and associates who claim to be white witches, some of these being very intelligent persons -- all the while, they have a great deal of esoteric and dogmatic 'knowledge', though they possess very little (often no) understanding of exactly just what / whom it is they are invoking during their proscribed 'rituals'. I tell them repeatedly not to trust anything or anyone claiming to 'deliver' them, and to take all 'leadership' with a grain of salt (for corruption runs rampant throughout 'leadership' these days, regardless of what organization one may be speaking of) -- and they still seem to have no idea why I tell them this. It's as if they're being 'shut off' from their highest wisdom and guidance, much like the 'sheeple'. Such is the folly of our time.

Pop culture itself is not without these same revelations. In the film "Being John Malkovich", there is a great deal of talk about the harvesting of 'the ripe vessel". Well, the human mind, ONCE CUT OFF FROM IT'S CREATOR AND 'HIGHER SPIRITUAL POWER', is without doubt such a 'vessel' for whatever energy comes it's way, and we're indeed seeing a great deal of this today -- either through random acts of stupidity and violence, or even through these surfacing 'alters'.

Another instructive film is "The Matrix". When one is described as 'asleep' (and thus 'unawake', though not necessarily 'dreaming', which is considered a 'conscious', highly motivated and self-directed activity by the heroes and heroines in the film), then they too are ripe pickings for the 'agents' of the enemy, who may strike at will anywhere within 'the matrix', 'borrowing' the forms of any of the hapless and helpless 'sleepers'.

Like I said earlier, I believe this gets really interesting from here on out. We're really hitting some uniquely descriptive territory.

Quotes, as per the posted news story from Texas:

"The 36-year-old NASA computer specialist..."

Again, the NASA connection. Sure, it's hardly proof -- but is it merely in somebody's 'imagination', or could this connection have been predicted (which has already been proven at various web sites describing Operation Paperclip, etc.)?

"Yates gazed down at Noah: 'That is kind of how I look at this. We've set you free.' "

Hmmnn. Not trying to determine innocence or guilt here, but this is really, really creepy. Any investigator worth their first paycheck should follow up on this lead. The statement is extremely suspect on its own, even moreso if its speaker has ever undergone Monarch-type mind conditioning, or could otherwise be cast as a 'handler' of those who had.

"Mary (his only daughter) became his little princess. 'Given this tragedy, I am so glad I had a girl...' "

Now, this is definitely beginning to sound like a ritual sacrifice, with a perfect scapegoat. Who would want to bring a child into the world, only to see that same child murdered at the hands of its own mother? I agree with the poster at CT Central, any loving father would need to be so heavily sedated in order to deal with this as to be virtually incoherent -- shock or no shock. Parents, in fact, generally collapse at the casket of their children even when circumstances of death are considered 'natural' -- such is the trauma of losing a child.

"Yates said his children were with God. 'He will take care of them,' he said."

This could either be 'guilt' talking, or remorse, or worse -- but it is very weird in any case.

As for the other murder, the ritual sacrifice (from another poster):

"Across the Gulf of Mexico...another woman killed her children on the same day...This woman did not have postpartum depression. She tried to commit suicide two years ago, long before the birth of her last child. She appears and acts as a programmed sex-slave. She performed a ritual sacrifice on the summer solstice. Her husband was interviewed on television saying that he still loves her and that she, the woman he loves, did not kill his children. It was another 'persona' within her. That suggests compartmentalization of her personality which is the result of programming and abuse. The children’s names were Luke, Paul, John, Mary, and Noah! Hello, out there! Wake up world..."

A thought about these so-called 'unrelated' tragedies: Someone familiar with astrology, in particular with the meanings of occult astrology, should plot a star chart for the times and days of all the involved locations, checking their actual angles relative to constellations of 'prominent entities' in the Black Arts, and then checking this against the position of the Great Pyramid in Egypt. Such a study could prove very enlightening...

That's really a very good idea, Djembemon. Astrology really isn't my forte, but I'll bet there is someone, somewhere on the internet whose involved in just such an endeavor. I'll take a look around.

John Lilly and The Matrix

There's a connection here. Lilly is well known for his research into the dolphins ability to communicate, his experiments with isolation tanks and his general willingness to risk life and limb in his exploration of the unknown. The movies "Altered States" and "Day of the Dolphin" were based on his work.

One of his revelations, based upon his experiences combining 'ketamine' with the isolation tank, was that there was a machine based intelligence working behind the scenes here on earth to further it's own agenda (namely our enslavement). He took this concept seriously enough that he jumped on a plane to DC to inform President Carter, in person, of this perceived threat. He refers to this presence as SSI, short for Solid State Intelligence. Many of the concepts present in movies like "The Matrix" and "The Terminator" can be traced back to his work. Aside from being a brilliant scientist, he was quite influential within Hollywood.

Now, the competing organization working surreptitiously
within our plane of existence he defined as the Earth Coincidence Control Office, or ECCO. If you've heard of ECCO the Dolphin, well...now you know how he got his name! I bring all this up only to give you some background on 'state-specific logic'.

When applying state-specific logic to this particular puzzle, we come to the conclusion that there is no one particular cause or explanation of this disorder. From a psychiatrist's 'state' of mind, a clinical diagnosis of MPD may be satisfactory for explaining this phenomena. For a Wiccan or 'magician', it is more clearly understood from a spiritual perspective. And so on. So, rather than attempt to understand something this complex from a static perspective, we must learn to juggle these various 'states' with the understanding that they are all valid within their own frame of reference. Only then can we begin to see the whole.

I just found a partial transcription I made of the invocation we were discussing. The process itself is not described, this is merely a somewhat accurate account of what was communicated to me by the 'alter'.
I ran into some real difficulty being allowed to record this, being physically interfered with. It's contents are accurate, it is simply missing appx. 30-40 percent of what was actually communicated. Here we go...

This being the first exposure I had to this rather unique set of circumstances, I falsely assumed the host would be able to recall most of what had occurred. The first section of the transcription indicates a transitional period. I thought I was still conversing with the person I knew. I wasn't, but it took a couple of minutes before this transformation became more obvious and complete. I was advised not to communicate with this personality, merely to remain silent and record the event. I chose not to follow this advice in during the latter part of the session.


Someone has something nasty to say to you.

There's one other thing...there's one other thing that's bugging the shit out of me.

(Oh no. Not love...)*

Her invocation failed.

Guess who? I am she who doesn't have a name.

[It was at this point that the subject ripped the notebook out of my hand and flung it across the room. I eventually recovered it and resumed recording these events. However, a substantial portion is missing. A good deal of this reveals personal information, and is better left unrevealed]

Please.

Ridiculous.

Write all you want. [The subject had moved towards me again and I took a more defensive posture with the notebook. Her attitude was one of condescension and amusement]

(No. Go back...)*

You. [A rather intense moment of mutual recognition]

Is the sky still falling? [The subject seemed shocked by my question. She took a moment to size me up, and averted her gaze. She seemed to consider answering the question, shook her head with amusement and bit her lip]

You know?

Someone once told me something a long time ago...

How much?

I know things that would tear you to your grave.

You guys make me laugh.

END

* denotes an apparent momentary return of the host consciousness

Ancient Egyptian astronomers aligned the pyramids due north by using two stars that circle the celestial polar point.

The north-finding stars were Kochab, in the bowl of the Little Dipper (Ursa Minor), and Mizar, in the middle of the handle of The Plough or Big Dipper (Ursa Major)...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1024000/1024779.stm

"[Cycles of Time: the Great Pyramid.] According to Masoudi, a medieval Copitic historian, the Great Pyramid of Giza was built by King Surid to preseve the spritual and mathematical knowledge of Egypt in a giant stone scripture that would weather not only the coming great flood but a future world conflagration as well. Esoteric scholars claim that the pyramid chronicles life from the time of Adam and Eve to the year 2001, when the world, as we are told by Surid's dream interpreters, will be destroyed by fire coming fromt he constellation of Leo.

"[Cycles of Time: Babylon.] Berosus, the second-century B.C. Chaldean astronomer, consigns us to Satan's space odyssey when the current sidereal precession of equinoxes draws to a close by 2001. He sees all terrestrial life and limb consumed by fire during a planetary alignment in July of that year. The fire will be followed by a great flood in October when, by his calculation, the same planets are conjoined in Capricorn."

"[Nostradamus adds] And this will be preceded by a solar eclipse more obscure and more dark and mysterious, than any since the creation of the world except for the death and passion of Jesus Christ from that time until now, [Note: this is believed to be the Solar eclipse seen across Europe and Asia Minor back on August 11, 1999]."

"And, there shall be in the month of October some great movement and transference of the globe and it will be such that one will think that the Earth has lost its natural movement, and that it will be plunged into the abyss of perpetual darkness; there will be initial omens in the spring, and extraordinary changes in rapid succession thereafter, reversals of kingdoms and mighty earthquakes, with the increase of the new Babylon..."

http://unknowncountry.com/mindframe/opinion/

It's becoming apparent that it doesn't really matter what I believe. What matters is that there is an organized group of people who absolutely believe in the existence of this entity and now is a very special time for them. Even more frightening is their documentable connection to the military and aerospace companies.

I'm not going to being posting links to this information. And I'm going to edit out information that identifies these organizations, My reasons for doing so will become readily apparent.


This area is a rich and powerful source of energy and fuel for the XXXXX Initiate's Black Flame and XXXX. We exist to explore and exploit the XXXXX initiatory potential in the name of the Prince of Darkness and the Whore of Babalon.

Members of the XXXXX are encouraged to analyze the secrets of the Feminine Daemonic using, but not limited to, the basic tools found within XXXX literature and are welcome to explore whatever resources or conductive environments inspire them to unlock the dark god / goddess within.

We meet to discuss techniques of personal work, using methods of self-deification, and antinomianism. We study and practice countless techniques of Self Perfection ranging from Black Tantra to Sex Magic, and discuss the concepts of Kundalini to the uses of Lesser Black Magic.

-------------------------------------------------------

1. This is the secret of the Holy Graal, that is the sacred vessel of our Lady the Scarlet Woman, Babalon the Mother of Abominations, the bride of Chaos, that rideth upon our Lord the Beast.

6. And because there is no life therein, the guardians of the abyss shall bid the angels of the winds pass by. And the angels shall lay thy dust in the City of the Pyramids, and the name thereof shall be no more.

10. Thou hast love; tear thy mother from thine heart, and spit in the face of thy father. Let thy foot trample the belly of thy wife, and let the babe at her breast be the prey of dogs and vultures.

-------------------------------------------------------
It still remains to be seen if some of Parsons' worshippers inside NASA, somnabulistically attributing the blind dumb luck of his sucess to Parsons' own personal mockery of the occult, decided to giftwrap a certain schoolteacher via a ritual sacrifice/NASA "accident", to be Parsons' new "Scarlet Woman" in the "other world"... the perversion of the simple symbol of an apple aside, and the strange irresponsible handling of... certain... logos by NASA sites aside, the Challenger Memorial's geometry is so amazingly close to Crowley and Parson's "Sigil of Babalon" that at the very least someone ought to think about changing it before someone amongst the survivors of a senseless, preventable tragedy gets slightly upset and kicks Dan Goldin's god-like tail all the way to O-ring... I mean, Orion...

(From an anti-Parsons site... seems harmless enough...
http://www.dreamwater.com/apolloni/parsons/creeps.html)

and read Cathy O'Brien's firsthand account of her "time" spent as a mind-controlled slave for the U.S. Government ("Trance Formation of America" , available at http://www.trance-formation.com ).

For starters, although she was routinely and often subjected to "Satanic" rutuals (up to and including human sacrifice, cannibalism, etc.), she now recalls that not for once did she feel as if some "super human" source was behind either the rituals or her torturous abuse by these "Satanists" -- but rather, that those "in-the-know" were merely using other's superstitions against them in order to basically do just whatever the Hell they pleased, and to further their own hidden agendae. It was simply a MEANS OF CONTROL in the hands of those knowledgable in the willful manipulation of humans minds -- and the "trances" induced during these "ceremonies" reminded her of her own, easily-accessed (if one only knew the codes) alters.

If anyone, she should be able to recognize this in others, having been subjected to the effects of ritual abuse for more than two decades (beginning with her own parents).

In fact, it has been studied, quantified and verified that most "Black Magicians" have been ritually abused themselves, likely both as children (coming from families with histories of multi-generational abuse) AND as "initiates" into their so-called 'dark orders'. Many social scientists believe that it is the ritualistic abominations themselves (blood sacrifice, multiple defilements upon "alters", etc.) which keep coven members under the complete control of their chief priests/priestesses.

In this respect, covens (and virtually all of their members) resemble much more than a passing likeness to the very real, very describable, quite explainable horrors described in the first-person accounts of "Trance Formation of America".

The fact that virtually ALL of the perpetrators listed in Trance Formation are currently and in perpetuity protected under the legal veil of "FOR REASONS OF NATIONAL SECURITY" should say something to the need for legal means (rather than "supernatural") for the very maintennance of these and related activities. After all, true "Satanists" should not necessarily need to hide behind 'man's laws', would they, what with the 'Prince of Darkenss' as their very arbiter?

So, yes, I think these people (the perps, the very ones responsible for these kinds of activities) are all very severely BRAIN-DAMAGED or quite clearly criminal in intent. This is not necessarily so for their victims, who genuinely seem to have little choice in the matter.

In fact, if one chooses to do the scholarly research (and very heady it is), one can read all about this form of primitive consciousness -- complete with 'abuse' and misinformation at the hands of early literate 'priests', the forms and functions of speficic 'idols' during the beginnings of human speech and as a means of conscious control, the 'hearing of voices' common with what we now term to be scitzophrenically-induced states, etc. -- in the late Professor Julian Jayne's seminal work, "The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind..."

So what may actually be happening is that the entire CONTROL AND MECHANICS of our government, and perhaps NASA (and many other branches as well) are in the hands of a bunch of criminals, control freaks, weirded-out perverts and borderline scitzophrenics... so what else is new? (I don't suppose this would register any surprise at a "chemtrails" website.)

Knowing this, is it any wonder that recent statistics record an explosion in the number of trauma-based mind disorders???

Curious: Is there an "admin" email function on this board?

Here's the problem I have with defining this phenomena from a purely psychological perspective; it doesn't fit the circumstances of my experience. I'm holding back on posting the results of my own recent research on this because I think you're correct in your observation that by simply exploring this 'thoughtform', we are giving it energy.

Like I said, it doesn't really matter what you or I or Cathy believes about the reality of this... intelligence. A quick Googlesearch for 'Babalon' will tell a much less clinical tale.

The extent of my beliefs regarding the subject were much different before we set out on this line of inquiry. I did not understand the historical significance of Babalon. I assumed it to be a symbolic reference to a geological location. I did not know that the entity described by Parsons had evolved into the fountainhead of this upsurge in occult belief systems. I did not know that the rituals designed for invoking this 'deity' were specifically designed to create fragmentation in the host's personality.

What's most frightening about this whole thing is that I'm not, by nature, much of a believer. Something either is or it isn't, from where I stand.

I had something of an epiphany a few nights ago. I 'believe' what we are describing is a reflection.

Of what, I remain uncertain. We are heading into uncharted territory and I feel sure that the answers will lie, from here on out, in our own direct experiences...

seactalliance@hotmail.com