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GP Alarm mvt is it or not?

January 10 2003 at 7:11 PM
rod lawson  (no login)

 
Can anyone help me out with this.

This is purportedly a GP alarm movement. The movement and case is signed GP. Is it an in house movement?





Here is a comparison movement of another swiss movement which looks virtually identical with some minor differences.




Is it the case that if a different brand movement GP may have carried out improvement modifications on this?

 
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PeterCDE
(Login pc01)

Sort of. Another chapter in history (some scans)

January 11 2003, 6:08 AM 

Hi Rod,

GP did not make any alarm movements those days.

Given the variety of a few hundred makers during 1940´s to 1975, i´m only aware of very few makers to do those (list by memory, so it´s not complete): AS (A. Schild), Vulcain/MST, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Junghans (german), Hanhart (german) and Venus.

GP made use of only two ebauches: Hand wound AS 1475/1930 and AS 1568/1931 (same with date), later the automatic Jaeger-LeCoultre 916. You will find the recent discussion about the JLC ones by clicking here.

The AS 1475 debuted in around 1954 and was made until around 1970. The first alarm movement by the well known AS factory which delivered movements to many many makers those days. The AS 1475 is a 11 lignes movement featuring a glucydur compensating balance, flat hair spring, 18.000 A/h beat rate, two barrels (one for the alarm, one for the watch), indirect centre second and 17 jewels. Reportedly a total of 780.000 movements was made.
The AS 1568 is basically the same as AS 1475, but came out in 1956 and does have a date. The reported production total is about 149.000 movements.
The AS 1930/1931 are fast beat ones (21.600 A/h), made from 1970 to 1974.

Ok, so it´s a base movement. But i think these are special anyway: GP never did large production runs like other makers, so the total quantity of GP ones is much lower than other makers. And it´s a GP

Most of the AS based alarm watches did have a fourth hand to adjust the alarm time. The GP ones are a bit different as they do have a window with a disc:



There are GP´s with a center hand to adjust the alarm time as well (i think these are the first ones by GP, the window ones are a bit later).

Besides the window, the watches with AS alarm movements i´ve seen so far are usually a bit more "rough" in finishing while the GP seem to have an improved finishing of the bridges as well.

There are some versions of GP´s calibre 11 / calibre 11.09 alarm movements; earlier make use of a lever:



while later ones do have a regulation similar the one on your picture:



Based on the inscription and the regulation, i would put the movement on your first picture into late 1960´s or early 1970´s.

And a word about the price: GP alarm watches retailed in 1962 for US-$85 (stainless steel) up to US-$250 (solid gold). As far as i know, a Rolex Submariner was around US-$185 those days.
So the GP alarm watch was not the cheapest one, but certainly there have been far more exclusive and more expensive ones. I like them anyway as they are nice to wear and nice to play with. An alarm function is one of only few complications i really make us of.

If you´re interested in the AS base, i could check back the books for some more information.

Hope this helps a bit?

Greetings from germany,

Peter

 
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Rod Lawson
(no login)

Is the pictured movement an AS 1568?

January 12 2003, 4:53 PM 

I know this is not a GP watch, but I just bought a waltham (I hear your comments of disgust)which is the movt pictured in my first post below the GP movt. Is it possible that this is an identical AS1568 movt that GP used. I thought it may be useable for parts.

thanks in advance.

 
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PeterCDE
(Login pc01)

I believe that´s correct

January 12 2003, 9:44 PM 

Hi Rod,

no comments of disgust about your Waltham!

First, i believe it to be an AS1568. You may find the AS logo and calibre number under the balance.
I´m not sure about interchangeability of parts. Apart from that, if your Waltham alarm is working, i would keep in as a watch (not as parts).

Waltham is a US brand with quite a tradition, starting in around 1854. They were focussing on lower to mid price watches; but as with any maker, there used to be certainly some nice pieces in their collection. One of their curiosity pieces is a watch having 100 jewels (!), but 83 of them are placed without function on the rotor. This did not improve the function (unlike 39 jewels in GP´s movements), but it´s a artefract of a time long gone.
Waltham went out of business between 1957 and 1960, so i think your watch may be one of the last ones they did. You may want to check this link for an overview about production dates.

Greetings from germany,

Peter

 
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Rod Lawson
(no login)

many thanks...

January 12 2003, 9:57 PM 

Peter,
once again thank you for your advice. I was awaiting anxiously a response to the question, as I have tried researching the movement on the internet without much success. I had heard of the 100 jewel waltham and its lack of functionality. According to your last post this movement the AS1568 had a production of approx 140,000. This I would imagine make it a little more collectible than the non date version. A point of interest I noticed, (this may not be accurate) is that the case is slightly larger than the GP using the same movement. This is noticeable I think by looking at the gap around the movement and the case. Thought this might be interesting as you are exploring the issue of case size at the moment.

I hope to have the watch in Australia in a few weeks and I look forward to playing with the alarm feature.

Many thanks again Peter, and I hope that I can contribute to this fantastic forum. By the way my loyalty is still with GP's, but when I saw this waltham with the same movement curiosity caused me to buy it.

 
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