A message board for discussing all books (and printed sources) related to Royal Families all over the world.
Memoirs by GD Leonida
by Alberto
I've been reading the memoirs of Grand-Duchess Leonida
of Russia. It's interesting but quite odd...
From the start she insists she was born in a Royal
Family, but apparently not even the communists looked
at her family as being "royals". In 1921 she and her
family escaped "Russia" (or Georgia if you prefer) to
live in Berlin but as Germans didn't treat them as
Royalty they felt understimated and they returned to
Soviet Union (but apparently the main reason was an
absurd idea of her father to recuperate his
properties) in 22 or 23. After living a life of HELL
among the communists they succeeded to run away again
in early 1934, they arrived in France in 34 without a
penny and in November 34 she got married to an
extremely rich American man and then she complains she
wanted divorce because women made pass on her husband
because they wanted his money.....the marriage lastedonly a few months.
She says also Infanta Eulalia and her mother wanted
her to get married to Eulalia's grand-son Ïnfante
Alfonso but he was killed in the Spanish Civil War in
1936....very strange Infanta Eulalia wanted her
grand-son to get married to a divorced woman, she
doesn't make mention of dates but if it was in 1934
they had only a few months between their arrival from
Soviet Union and her wedding with another man in
November...(and from her divorce till the death of don
Alfonso there were only few months as well, and I
cannot imagine Infanta Eulalia, who was excentric but
not THAT much, trying to get a woman who had just
divorced and with a baby daughter to marry hergrand-son)
She tells a fantastic story about ehr sister who left
the man she loved behind in Soviet Union and she
returnned there only to find him married to another
woman and she was sent to Siberia to work in a
concetration camp for 9 years..(if it is true this is
most stupid woman in the world). And when Leonida got
married to the Grand-Duke this sister was liberated
from her comcetration camp to visit her sister and
brother-in-law....the communsists were mostcooperative.......
She says after getting married to the Grand-Duke (she
was a widow by then) she used to go to her hairdresser
in a Rolls-Royce with a driver, I didn't know they hadthat money.
Very sad th story of ehr ssiter-in-law, the princess
of Leiningen, who converted to Catholicism and her
in-laws expelled her because of it and she went to
live in adrid with her brother and she died there in
the arms of Leonida and Leonida and her husband could
ot go to Germany to the burial(because of visa
problem) and no relative of the dead princess went
either because it was a catholic burial.
GD Leonida talks freely about the mistresses of king
Alfonso XIII of Spain...not very discreet!
She confirmed the first husband(the Grand-Duke of
Hesse-Darmstadt) of her mother-in-law was not
interested in women, another indiscreetion coming fromsomeone so "close" to him.
GD Leonida is not the most modest person in the world
according to her memoirs and she says all Royalty
appreciated her a lot after ehr wedding to the
Grand-Duke, without exception, but she only produces a
letter from Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands...
She says she knew her ex-son-in-law, the prince of
Prussia married to her second daughtere, the Heiress
to the Russian Throne, was a bad person, but why
didn't she try to prevent the match?
Anyway it's entertainning, and obviously she had a
not-very competent ghost writer as she wrote the book
from August 2000 to October 2000...amazing memory fora lady of 86 years old
Alberto
Posted on Jul 1, 2001, 7:28 PM from IP address 200.188.182.118
Alberto, if you enjoyed this book you should definitely try to get hold of a copy of 'The Last Grand-Duchess' by Ian Vorres. It's the memoirs of Grand Duchess Olga, the sister of Tsar Nicholas II (daughter of Tsar Alexander III). You should be able to get a copy, as I did, via Abe Books (www.abebooks.com).
It really is well worth reading. Kindest regards,
Joanne
www.theroyalist.net
Posted on Jan 8, 2006, 7:11 PM from IP address 82.42.42.60
I read the book "Marie-Henriette, une amazone face à un géant" by Mia Kerckvoorde, ISBN 2-87386-4, Brussels, 1998.
It's an intersting book because =it has the merit of exixting and because I am most interested in the lives of queen Marie-Henriette of the Belgians and over all in hte lives of her tragic daughters, princesses Louise and Stéphanie(and less so in the life of their sister princess Clémentine). So, I had read already some books on the topic....the same books mrs. Kerckvoorde read and employed as almost her only sources for this biography...I cannot find too much merit in only reading 6 or 7 books and making a resumé of the books in a new one...
The only new source, very interesting by the way, mrs. Kerckvoorde presents in her book is the letters on the archive at Laeken palace. What makes the book worth reading enough for someone who is so interested in the subject as I am.
Queen Marie-Henriette was a tonboy girl and woman, she was not conventional at all(but she had a strong sense of duty and "appropriate" things to do, she would not have a real lover for instance, she was too pious also, in short, she was not conventional only in what could not agree with the Church principles). Her passion after her horses and dogs was mixing with the militar men, she didn't miss a militar parade and she could talk with generals as an expert. She had a platonic general lover by the way. He was 25 years older than her and she felt relieved people could not think bad things of them because of the age gap, but she forgot the general's wife...who was really annoyed by Queen Marie-Henriette to "order" the general to come to dinner and not including the wife in the order. Later Queen Marie-Henriette would have another platonic affair iwth her vetenerinary, and I mean her vetenerinary in the real sense, as he was her doctor as well as Marie-Henritte prefered him to real doctors. He was married as well...
Surprisingly by her letters one can conclude she was not unhappy with her terrible husband king Leopold II, a most umpleasant man, selfish, insensitive, greedy, autoritarial, impolite and cruel. She was mot loyal to him until 1895(they had got married in 1853), in 1895 she found out about his mitresses and she she stopped being loyal and she retired from Court a few years later to live in Spa(she died in 1902)
All the time Queen Marie-Henriette defended her husband's behaviour and she even thinks she loved her in his strange way even after the death of their only son in 1869. (apparently Marie-Henriette was very wrong). The couple passed through hard times as Empress Charlotte getting mad(and queen Marie-Henriette was the one who had to travel to Trieste to bring Charlotte to Belgium, a 60 hours journey on train to go and another 60 hours to come back). She had an allienist with her but even so poor Charlotte aggressed her physically. The tragedy of losing her son(the only time in his life Leopold II cried), the tragedy of Mayerling, the tragedy of Marie-Henriette not being able to produce a son in 1872 when Clémentine was born instead, teh tragedy of the death of prince Baudouin(brother of king Albert I) who was so in love with princess Clémentine and at last the tragedy of the "princess Louise affair". All this time Marie-Henriette was loyal to her husband.
Apparently she loved her daughters. But she was very hard with princess Louise already when princess Louise was only 23(in 1881). Certainly princess Louise had a most scandalous behaviour to the times but Marie-Henriette wrote only insults to her elder daughter. (who didn't reply her mother, mrs. Kerckvoorde criticizes Louise but who would answer such letters?). Marie-Henriette knew Louise's husband had raped her daughter in Laeken after the wedding but she kept telling her daughter to accept her duty, by the way she says the same thing to all her daughters all the time.
Marie-Henriette was pivotal in making the match Stéphanie and archduke Rudolph even if princess Stéphanie told her she didn't want that wedding. Stéphanie was mot unhappy. Marie-Henriette was mostly disapointed when princess Stéphanie failed to have a son in 1883 and producing an Heir to the Austrian-Hungarian Throne. Even if Emperor Francis_joseph was not disappointed at all.
In the following years she would keep telling her daughter to have a son, in the most insensitive way as she was informed by a letter of Louise that Stéphanie's husband had had gonorhea and he transmitted gonorhea to Stéphanie who had to go through a chrirurgy and in the way she could not have another child...in 1888 Marie-Henriette tells Stéphanie if she had not a son Marie-Henriette would consider her daughter DEAD!(I see Leopold's words in this lettr, but mrs. Kerckvoorde says nothing) after the tragedy of Mayerling her husband would not allow stéphanie to visit Belgium, not even for a few days. But then Marie-Henriette succeeded to have Stéphanie for 3 days...
From 1895 when Louise meets her lover(a real one) Marie-Henriette shows her ugliest face, she said quite clearly Louise should be put at a mad house even if she was not mad at all!!!! She wrote exactly like this!
And in 1898 Louise is indeed "arrested" and put in mad houses and her mother never talked to her anymore (concerning princess Louise I am waiting her new biography to sumarise here, I could comment on old books but lets wait this new book).
In 1900 she didn't help Stéphanie in getting married to her second husband, and it was old queen Victoria who tried to help Stéphanie and king Leopold answered a most brutal letter to Queen Vistoria who was so shocked she had to spend a day in bed. (she would die a few months latter, I can sumarize ehre later the bio on princess Stéphanie). Marie_henriette didn't help Clémentine either to get married to a Begian baron and either with the prince Napoleon...
All in all, it's an interesting book even if mrs. Kerckvoorde takes some liberties with other author's books
Alberto
Paula
yes, you are right again concerning Marie-Henriette and painting! But I am afraid you are not so correct about her gifts for languages.....
I was thinking of summarizing here the bio on Stephanie by Irmgard Schiel, Stephanie's memoirs I read years ago and I was glad to get a copy for my own and only then I decided to read at last the wonderful bio by Irmgard Schiel(which I had in my collection but I didn't want to read until I got a copy o the memoirs). But don't worry, in her bio I. Schiel makes references aall the time to the memois and she has the umpublished version which Stephanie wrote but censored later....you will like it very much!
As for Marie-Henriette, she was really a tomboy. I realized it reading the bio on stephanie by I. Schiel. Weeks before the wedding in Vienna queen Marie-Henriette wrote to the Court in Vienna and posed the msot amazing questions concerning teh clothes for ehr daughter, ALL the Court was surprised and mocked on queen Marie-Henriette!
On page 96 you can find these questions:
1- Could princess stephanie arrive in vienna with a dress in red and a hat in the same colour? (answer: yes)
2- Or is it necessary the hat is white? (answer: no)
3- Her bride's crown during the wedding should have orange flowers or "Myrte" flowers? (answer: orange with myrthe or only myrthe)
4- Must the princess wear a real diadem together with her flower crown? (answer: yes)
5- Is Stephanie's veil according to the ettiquete? (answer: yes)
6- What are the favourite colours of HM the Emperor? (answer: His Majesty usually does'n't like bright yellow nor any too bright colour)
......well, you see Paula, Marie Henriette was most insecure
Alberto
ps: I can summarize stephanie's memoirs after her bio by I. Schiel
Posted on Jul 1, 2001, 7:27 PM from IP address 200.188.182.118
Archiduchess Stéphanie ("Dans l'Ombre de Mayerling")
by Alberto
Hello
I read the biography “Stéphanie, princesse héritière dans l’ombre de Mayerling” by Irmgard Schiel, ISBN number 287386-150-9, translated into French in 1999 from this original German version of 1979. Irmgard Schiel suceeded to write the first(and I believe the only one till today) biography on princess Stéphanie, and what a wonderful book! She consulted all archives in Austria, Hungary and Belgium, she interviwed many surviving witnesses(including Empress Zita) and childrenof witnesses, she took the opinions of psychiatrics, lawyers, graphologists, etc. And naturally she consulted the published memoirs of princess Stéphanie and compared it with the unpublished version which Stéphanie censored.
PrincessStéphanie childhood was very unhappy, with a cold and extremely severe father and a passive mother. She and her sisters were not allowed to have heating in their rooms and they had to take cold baths even in the winter and the windows must remained open allthe time(I wonder why..) She would get red scars all over her body because of the cold temperatures which in the future would people in Vienna mock on her. Her governess was as harsh as her father and Stéphanie suffered the torture of being locked in a dark room in Laeken often.
Princess stéphanie was not the first bride immagined to archduke Rodolphe. First Rodolphe went to Dresden but princess Mathilde of Saxony was very ugly, he then went to Spain but Infanta Maria La Paz didn’t satisfy him. Count Choteck(father of the future wife of archduke Franz-Ferdinad) was sent to Brussels with instructions to see if Stéphanie was pretty enough and to ask King Leopold II if he would be intersted in receiving a visit by Rodolphe for matrimonial reasons but king Leopold should accept a refusal of Rodolph, king Leopold didn’t think twice and he ws very moved by the prospect of his daughter becoming the future Empress of Austria-Hungary. Rodolpphe arrive in March 1880 and he appreciated Stéphanie and after a 5 minutes talk when Stéphanie and Rodolphe stayed together all by themselves he asked her in wedding.. Stéphanie answered yes as her parents had instrutected her to do so and her mother in special, told her aobut the glories of being Sovereign consort of such a beautiful Empire. The couple posed immediately for a photographer and 21 pictures were taken of htem. Stéphane had not been seen by any commoner Belgian until that day, she had been kept from the eyes of everybody locked in Laeken. In Vienna when the wedding was announced there was a great anxiety and curiosity by Emperor Francis Joseph, Court and ALL the people to see a picture of Stéphanie as there was no one available. There were riots in the centre of Vienna when it was rumoured a bookshop had the photos, it took days the pictures would take Vienna.......and when they arrive people shouted she was ugly....
Schiel tries to be impartial but one feels she pities Stéphanie and she tries to present Stéphanie in her best light all the time. And she says how unfair it was to Stéphanie to be compared all the time with “Sissi”, hundreds of books on Sissi, many Romy Schneider’s films for Sissi, music for Sissi, mythification for Sissi, and for Stéphanie only critics, accusations and mockeries. And Schiel proves Rodolphe commited suicide not because of Stéphanie as Stéphanie had been accused all her life. Rodolphe was a suicidal person, Stéphanie tried to succeed in her wedding...until a certain point.......
After the engagement in March 1880 the couple had to wait till May 1881 to get married as Stéphanie had not had her first menstruation(she was late as she had had na illness when she was a child which provokes this kind of thing). In the meantime Stéphane became more beautiful, and I can tell you she was really beautiful, only to tall. And she would become even taller after she had her daughter, during the 27 hours labour Stéphanie all of a sudden grew 5 centimeters(2 inches?) becoming taller than Rodolph. Rodolph and Stéphanie were a happy couple in the first motnhs of their wedding but as Rodolphe became more atheistic and republican every day Stéphanie got frightenned and they were pretty cold with each other even before their first anniversary(but there were periods of great tenderness from the part of Rodolph as his letters to stéphanie proves, he kept calling her “his Coco” and he was fond of her sometimes). As Sissi travelled all the time Stéphanie was the first lady of the Monarchy(as Austria-Hungary was referred) what was excellent for Stéphanie as she really wanted to be in the spot light and besides she didn’t have to endure her mother-in-law who hated her. For a time Stéphanie enjoyed popularity and every witness says she was beautiful, until 1886 when Rodolphe got ill and Stéphanie as well, Schiel with the help of doctors and the prescriptions found at the royal pharmacy tells us they had caught gonorhea. Which would prevent Stéphanie to have another child. And apparently it made Stéphanie to loose much of her beauty in a short period....
But even so the couple kept having sexual relationships, they had one, probably the last one, in May 1888 as there’s a letter by Rodolph to Stéphanie making mention of this (a letter Stéphanie didn’t destroy but wrote on it it should kept from the prying eyes) Schiel makes a long excuse for talking about these things but she says as a historian she needed to talk on every aspect of the couple life, as Stefan Zweig did in his biographies.
After May 1888 Stéphanie found another love.......Count Potocki, na affair that remained unknown till this biography. Stéphanie loved Count Potocki, a rich noble man from Poland until the day he died in 1890.
Tehre are many versions on how Stéphanie knoew of the tragedy of Mayerling and how she was treated byt eh Habsburgs. It’s sure she was not well treated and Sissi blamed her for the death of her son. And all people of the Monarchy did the same latter....she received thousands of letters and telegramns on the following days, but in a short time only the foreigners and a few persons of the Monarchy remained loyal to her. Not certainly the Kaiser who started tretaing her in a very cold way. Her best friends were the Hesse family, the children of princess Alice of England and she was specially close friend of princess “Ella”. Queen “Carmen Sylva” of Romania, the Queen of Greece and Queen Victoria remained very loyal to stéphanie and Queen Victoria even invited Stéphanie to live with ehr, but Emperor francis-Joseph would not let her leaving the Monarchy so soon....as a matter of fact the Emperor wanted Stéphanie to get married to archduke Franz-Ferdinand, what Stéphanie refused.
During the 1890’s Stéphanie led a life of travelling around all places in Europe and she lived mostly in the palace of Miramare in Trieste. She behaved in na odd way, too make up, smolking, and drinking in public bars, a thing she had detested in Rodolph. She lost her position as first-lady of the Empire and in 1900 she would loose even the Imperial Highness treatment and king Leopold II tried to make her loose the Royal Highness as well as she decided to get married to a “mere” count, the count of Lonyay de Nagy-Lonya. In 1902 her daughter got married to the prince of WichGraetz and in the process she lost her rights to the Austrian Throne, only many years later her daughter realized what she was doing by signing the rennunciation paper(as she was the RIGHTFUL Heir from 1889 till 1902) and she stoped talking to her mother(later she would become a socialist, but there’s a biography only on her)
Stéphanie led a very happy life with her second husband and they lived in a huge castle in what is today Slovakia, she wrote her memoirs first with Count Corti, the famous biographer of sissi but then she re-wrote everything by herself and only this story is a novel in itself. In 1945 when most people thought she was already dead the Sovits troops arrive at ehr castle to find Stéphanie making the sign of the Cross in bed and hiding two girls in the bed(from rape)The Soviet soldiers were correct with Stéphane but she had to leave the castle and went to a beneditine abbey taking with her the archives and the second part of her memoirs which she left to the monks to publish what they didn’t do to this day...Stéphanie died in August 1945.
I can give later all details about the most important parts of her life, Mayerling, her weddings, etc.
It’s one the best biographies I have ever read
Alberto
"Do you know the content of this last letter to Stephanie?"
Paula
of course I do. On page 30 Schiel gives the full content of this letter:
"Dear Stéphanie
you are free from my "funest"(?) presence. Be happy in your destiny. Be good to the poor small being(obs: Erszi), which is the only thing that will survive me. Send my last greeting to all our acquaitances, specially to Bombelles, Spindler, Wowo, Gisèle, Léopold, etc, etc.
I enter with calm in death which, and only death, can save my good reputation.
I kiss you from the deep of my heart.
your Rodolphe who loves you"
But I think it's not correct he wrote only 3 letters, I'll have to check it.
Count Bombelles was his Chief of House(I don't know how to say it in English), he was a great friend of Rodolphe and Rodolphe left a part of his fortune to him but Bombelles could not enjoy for a long time as he died in the most "shameful" way in July 1889, only 5 months after Mayerling, in an orgy with 2 prostitutes and Bombelles after having had the first heart attack had time enough to declare one of the prostitutes his universal heiress to the great scandal of all Vienna...
according to one of the ladies-in-waiting of Stéphanie Rodolphe left a second message to her with instructions about the burial. The lady-in-waiting found it on Rodolphe's room at the Hofburg.
Stéphanie said each word of the letter (see above) was like a knife in her heart and she felt FURIOUS and, of course, tremendously desperate. Her sister Louise was with her when she received the letter and both princesses cried for hours. Louise in her memoirs would present the letter by heart, but it was not the correct letter(Louise died in 1923) the correct letter would be known by the public only in 1935. Schiel presents a picture of the letter with Rodolphe's handwritting. According to Schiel Rodolphe didn't leave any letter to the Emperor as they had had an argument a day before because of the Pope's problem(as Rodolphe had written to the Pope to ask for the annulment of the wedding) and LadyPaget is a witness the Emperor shouted Rodolphe was not worth of succeeding him
Alberto
Posted on Jul 1, 2001, 7:24 PM from IP address 200.188.182.118
these are the articles which appeared in the book "Les Grands Dossiers de l'Illustration", published in 1987 by SEFAG and L"Illustration, ISBN 2.904310-98-3
United Kingdom:- Une Grande Dynastie (january 1936)
- Un Nouveau Règne: Edouard VII et la Reine Alexandra(february 1901)
- La mort du Roi George V (january 1936)
- Qu'est-ce que la royauté anglaise (mai 1937)Le sacre de George VI(mai 1937)
Belgium- Le roi Albert et son fils Léopold prince héritier(february 1934)
- La mort de Albert I (feb, 1934)
- La reine Astrid et le roi Léopold (juillet 1935)
- La mort tragique de la reine des Belges(september1935)Sweden
- Les noces d'or du roi et de la reine (june 1907)
- La mort du roi Oscar II (decembr 1907)- La reine-colonel (june 1909)
- Un mariage princier à Coburg (october 1932)
- Le soixante-quinzième anniversaire du roi(july 1933)
- Quatre générations royales (february 1935)
- Le mariage suédo-danois (june 1935)Les 80 ans du roi de Suède (june 1938)
Danmark- Le jubilé du Roi Christian IX (november 1903)
- La famile du roi Christian IX (february 1906)
- La mort du roi Chritian IX (february 1906)
- La mort du roi Frédéric VIII (may 1912)
- Le changement de règne en Danemark (may 1912)- Un mariage princier (june 1921)
- Le millénaire du parlement islandais(july 1930) Norway
- Le roi Haakon VII entre à Christiana (december 1905)
- Haakon VII ou Haakon IX? (june 1907)- Le mariage du prince Olav (april 1929)
- Le premier petit-fils du roi de norvège (april 1937)Netherlands
- Trois générations de souveraines (june 1931)
- Les fiançailles de la princesse Juliana (septembre1936)
- Le mariage de la princesse (janvier 1937)
- Quarante ans de règne bienfaisant: la reineWilhelmine (september 1938)
- La future héritière du Trône du Pays-Bas, princesse
Béatrice d'Orange-Nassau (february 1938)
- Naissance d'une nouvelle princesse hollandaise(august 1938)Albania
- Le futur prince d'Albanie (november 1913)- L'Albanie et son prince (mai 1914)
- La Royauté en Albanie: le roi Zogu I (september1928)
- Le mariage du roi d'Albanie (may 1938)Russia
- La mort du tsar Alexandre III (november 1894)
- Le mariage du tsar Nicolas II (december 1894)
- Le couronnement du tsar (june 1896)
- Le baptême du Gand Duc héritier de Russie( september1904)
- La famille impériale de Russie (february 1905)
- Le tricentenaire de la dynastie des Romanov (mars1913)
- Le prisonnier de Tsarskoié-Selo (august 1917)
- La fin tragique de Nicolas II (july 1918)Spain
- L'avènement d'Alphonse XIII (may 1902)- L'enfance d'un roi (may 1902)
- Le mariage du roi (june 1906)- La reine mère d'Espagne (february 1929)
- La mort d'Alphonse XIII (march 1941)Portugal
- Le roi Dom Carlos I (november 1907)- L'attentat de Lisbonne (february 1908)
- Les premiers actes publics du roi dom Manuel II (may1908)
- La révolution au Portugal (october 1910)
- La fin d'une Monarchie (october 1910)- La fin d'un roi en exil (july 1932)
Italy- Le roi Humbert I (august 1900)
- L'assassinat du roi d'Italie (august 1900)
- Le roi Victor Emmanuel III (august 1900)
- Les souverains italiens (october 1903)
- Le baptême du prince du Piémont (december 1904)
- Le mariage de la fille aînée: la princesse Yolande(april 1923)
- Le 25eme anniversaire del'avénement au trône (june1925)
- Le mariage du prince héritier d'Italie (january1930)
- Princes sportifs (february 1930)- Le futur héritier d'Italie (april 1937)
Greece- La famille royale de Grèce à Salonique (march 1913)
- L'assassinat du roi de Grèce (march 1913)
- Le roi Constantin en famille (december 1913)
- L'abdication du roi Constantin (june 1917)
- La maladie du roi de Grèce (october 1920)
- Après la mort du roi de Grèce (november 1920)
- Le retour du roi Constantin (january 1921)
- La révolution à Athènes: le nouveau roi Georges II(october 1922)
- Le départ des souverains grecs (december 1923)
- Le retour du roi de Grèce (november 1935)Bulgary
- La proclamation de l'indépendance des Balkans(october 1908)
- L'abdication de Ferdinand de Bulgarie (october 1918)
- Le mariage du roi des Bulgares, Boris III (novvember1930)
- Les funérailles du ri Boris III (september 1943)Montenegro
- Un nouveau Royaume dans les Balkans (august 1910)
- L'union du Montenégro à la Serbie (december 1918)
- La mort du roi du Montenégro (march 1921) Germany
- Guillaume II et son fils (february 1907)
- Les fiançailles du prince impérial (septemeber 1904)
- L'empereur, sa famille et sa sute à Corfou(may 1908)
- Une croisière de la famille impériale d'Allemagne
dans la méditerranée (april 1908)
- L'empereur Guillaume II et le tsar Nicolas II (june1909)
- Le mariage de la fille de Guillaume II (november1918)
- Une silhouette et un portrait de Guillaume II(november 1918)
- L'abdcation de Guillaume II (december 1918)
- L'ex-Kronprinz en famille (september 1921)Austry-Hungary
- Les fêtes du Jubilé de l'empereur Fançois-Joseph(may 1908)
- Un futur empereur qui inquiète l'Europe:
François-Ferdiand d'Autriche-Este (december 1912)
- La mort de l héritier d'Autriche, l'attentat deSarajevo (july 1914)
- Le graphique d'une existence impériale: le nouvel
empereur Charles-François-Joseph (november 1916)
- La tentative de Charles de Habsburg (april 1921)
- La nouvelle tentative de Charles IV (october 1921)
- Les éxilés de Lequittio (february 1925)
- La question des Habsbourg et la paix d'Europe (july1935)Serbia
- Révolution sanglante en Serbie: le roi Alexandre et
la reine Draga sont assassinés(june 1903)- Pierre I, le nuveau roi (june 1903)
- Le couronnement du roi de Serbie (september 1904)
- La renonciaton du prince royal de Serbie (april1909)
- Fiançailes royales: Alexandre I, roi des Serbes, des
Croates et des Slovènes et la princesse Marie deRoumanie (january 1922)
- Le baptême du prince héritier de Serbie (october1923)
- Le nuveau régime en Yougoslavie (october 1929)
- L'assassinat du roi Alexandre de Yougoslavie(october 1934)
- Les débuts du nouveau règne (october 1934)Romania
- Le roi Charles I et la reine(Carmen Sylva) (septembe1906)
- La plus artiste des souveraines (september 1912)
- Le nouveau roi de Roumanie (october 1914)
- La mort du roi Ferdinand I (july 1927)- L'agitation politique (may 1928)
- Le roi Charles II (june 1930)
- La naissance d'une dictature royale (march 1938)
And this it. ALL these articles in a single book with
PLENTY of pictures and information! All in ONE book.
Thrilling reading about the Czar arrested an year
before he would murdered! Moving eading about the
parties in Viena for the old emperor in 1908. SO
interesing to red about teh royal weddings, with list
of guests, with plenty of details with the eyes of the time...
Posted on Jul 1, 2001, 7:16 PM from IP address 200.188.182.118
If you search the Fall 1999 archives of the newsgroup alt.talk.royalty for author Grant Menzies, you will find an exhaustive list of Phenix's errors in a long, long post about this book. A very useful list to print and keep with the book.
Steven
Some notes and corrections on Patricia Phenix’s book "Olga Romanov,
Russia’s Last Grand Duchess" (Penguin Canada, 1999).
This book, to which so many of us had looked forward, does have its
scant bits of usable information, particularly regarding Grand Duchess
Olga’s later life in Canada and the subsequent fortunes and
misfortunes of her sons and daughters-in-law. But it does a great
disservice to Olga and to the reader thanks to hundreds of errors,
mis-interpreted information, typos, and other distractions. It
appears that Ian Vorres’ biography, "The Last Grand Duchess", must
continue to hold the spotlight for an accurate picture of Olga
accurately written and researched.
Below are my notes, compiled after finishing the book today. They are
by no means exhaustive.
p.27: There can’t have been “organ” music at Sandro and Xenia’s
wedding in the Peterhof Palace chapel as instrumental music is not
used in Russian services. In "Once a Grand Duke", Sandro only
mentions that the choir “sang divinely”.
p. 29: Re: the ill Alexander III being forbidden to eat ice-cream by
Empress Marie. In the Vorres book, Olga clearly says that the doctors forbade the Emperor to eat ice-cream. Nowhere does Olga
say, as Phenix writes, that she fed the ice-cream to Alexander.
pp.31-32: Phenix implies that the Prince of Wales, the future King
Edward VII, arrived in Russia at the time of Alexander III’s funeral.
Not true. “Uncle Bertie” was already at Livadia when the Emperor died
and had to take charge of matters when the hysterical Russian staff
lost their heads. (See Vorres.)
p. 33: Phenix implies that with Nicholas II’s accession and marriage
to Alix, Minnie lost husband, son, and title. This ignores the fact
that Minnie, as Dowager Empress, still had right of precedence over
her own daughter-in-law at all court functions at which both werepresent.
p. 38: This is the first appearance of “Saxe-Coburg-GOTHE”. Should be“Gotha”.
pp.39-40: Phenix does not set a proper scene for the Khodinka
disaster, only mentioning the dangerous “trenches” partway through.
Why does no one get this clear? The field had trenches in it, as it
was used for military exercises. These were covered over with boards,
which either broke or were pushed aside by the multitude; people fell
in, others fell onto them, hence the many unrecognizable corpses in
the aftermath. The injuries would have been different had the
trenches not been there, perhaps the death count as well.
p. 41: Phenix only says that Nicholas was persuaded to attend a
“French ball” arranged by Grand Duke Serge the evening of the Khodinka
disaster. It was a ball arranged by the French ambassador forNicholas.
p. 43: This is the first time I’ve read that the lady-in-waiting with
whom Minnie tried to replace the dismissed Nana Franklin was a
“British” woman named Mrs. Orchard. This is too close to the name of
Alix’s own nurse brought from England, Mrs. Orchard or “Orchie”.Clues, anyone?
p. 55: I’d like to know on what basis Phenix can claim that Prince
Peter’s and Olga’s marriage was “almost certainly” consummated.
p. 57: Uses the (?) Russian spelling of Princess Eugenie of
Oldenburg’s estate: Ramon. In Vorres, it’s Ramogne.
p. 68: Phenix seems to think that Olga and Minnie were viewing the
Blessing of the Waters from a dais near the Neva, on the day loaded
cartridges were fired and narrowly missed the Tsar. In fact, Vorres
makes it clear that both women were watching from the Winter Palace
windows and how Olga marveled that the little figure of her brother
standing there below was still so straight and upright despite the
mortification he must have felt. It makes sense that Olga and her
mother were inside the warmth of the Winter Palace rather than
standing out in the January cold.
p. 87: Phenix says Prince Felix Yusupov belonged to one of the great
families of “Europe”. The Yusupovs were one of the great families of*Russia*.
p. 87: Re: Minnie living the “cloistered” life of a former empress.
Knowing Minnie’s fondness for parties and balls, her delight in
wearing jewels and flashing them under the chandeliers, and all the
more so as Alix was such a stick socially, one can only wonder when
the Dowager Empress had time to be cloistered.
p. 89: Re: Olga’s describing herself as being “shelved” (Olga’s word)
at the “tender” (Phenix’s word) age of thirty. Twenty is a tender age,
but not thirty. Being “shelved”, as Olga was, at any age is traumaticenough.
p. 90: Olga told Vorres she was in her bath when news of Nicky’s
declaration of war reached her. She got out, got dressed, and hurried
to see her brother. Nothing about this in Phenix’s account.
p. 91: Phenix says that according to “all accounts”, Prince Peter took
the news of Olga’s declared separation from him with cucumber
coolness. By what other accounts? The only account we have of the
dialogue is Olga’s, in Vorres’ book.
p. 91: Re: Phenix’s curious description of Russian citizens glaring
hatefully at the Romanovs because they were spending money on
armaments and ruining the country, one can only point out that
Nicholas was liquidating his own private fortune to buy these
armaments. I doubt that this early in the war against Germany people
were doing the glaring that they certainly did when the tides began to
turn against Russia.
p. 92: Re: a “religious” icon. In a Russian Orthodox home, is there
any other kind of icon?
p. 94: Phenix implies that Kulikovsky, mussed from the battlefield,
showed up several times at Olga’s hospital. But in Vorres only the
one time is mentioned, when Olga ran to her future husband and hugged
him, to the astonishment of onlookers.
p. 97: Phenix makes it seem that when Olga discovered the nurse about
to crack her on the head with a jar of vaseline, she screamed and ran
away. In fact, in Vorres’ account Olga did scream, but it was the
nurse who ran out.
p. 100: Phenix curiously and wrongly refers to Grand Duke Nicholas
Nikolaevich as if his last name was “Nikolaevich”. Did she mean to
use his familiar family nickname, Nikolasha?
p. 109: Phenix errs grievously in stating that Nicholas returned to
Petrograd from the Stavka at Moghilev on hearing of Rasputin’s death,
only to find that revolution had broken out. Rasputin was murdered in
December 1916; the revolution took place in March 1917. Big
difference. And Nicky came back to Tsarskoe unhampered on hearing
about Rasputin.
p. 110 ff: Lots of loose-cannon talk about Nicholas being surrounded
by “treason”, without details. This is parroting of something the
author has read. The situation at Nicholas’ abdication is far more
complex. Some of his retinue, like Count Alexander Grabbe, were given
a bad rap as “traitors” by gossip which then hardened into fact among
émigrés who had nothing better to do in exile.
p. 116: Phenix refers to Olga’s “imperial” retinue. Olga was a grand
duchess, but by her marriage she was not an imperial and could not
have had such a “retinue”.
pp. 116-123: Phenix mixes up where everyone lived at Ai-Todor.
Minnie, Sandro and Xenia and their children, lived in Ai-Todor, while
it was Olga and Kulikovsky who moved to the little cottage on the
grounds (where Grand Duchess George had once stayed in happier days,
by the way). Phenix seems to have skimmed her source materials a bit
too lightly.p. 118: I don’t recall reading that the sailors invading Minnie’s
bedroom at Ai-Todor ripped up floorboards. They ripped open cushions
and ripped up carpets, but floors?
p. 119: Olga hid Minnie’s jewels in cocoa TINS, not just one tin, asPhenix says.
p. 122: To Vorres, Olga commented that the Sevastopol and Yalta
soviets were arguing about who had the prior right of “cutting our
heads off”. Meant, obviously, half in jest. Phenix appears to take
this beheading comment too seriously.
p. 122: Zadorozhny, in charge of the Romanovs at Ai-Todor and Dulber,
was waiting to hear from the Sevastopol Soviet re: what to do with the
captives, not waiting to hear from Lenin himself.
p. 122: Dulber, a town? Dulber was just Dulber, the estate of the
Grand Duke Peter Nikolaevich. (See “Flight of the Romanovs” for a map
of the Crimean estates.)
p. 124: Phenix is wrong about the chain of events following Olga’s
hearing the news that the Yalta soviet’s troops had arrived. Olga
heard the news, wrapped Tikhon in a blanket, and with Kulikovsky hid
in the rocks at the seashore, ventured forth at nightfall to Dulber
and begged the Sevastopol troops to let her in, was refused, and THEN
trudged up the hill to spend the night with a friend. There is no
mention in Vorres about Olga finding a friend bayoneted beside the
road. Olga did HEAR that a kindly commissar she had known was
murdered by the Yalta troops, by bayonet. That’s different from
finding him beside the road.
p. 126: Phenix refers to King George V, well into W.W.I, as “now”
being King George V.
p. 127: Phenix implies that Alexandra’s German birth made her
unwelcome in England. Again, the truth is far more complicated thanthat.
p. 127: Phenix retails the discredited story about the family being
chopped up and burned before being thrown down the mine shaft.
p. 128: No credit given to Olga’s Caucasian servant, Yachik, for
bringing the Kulikovskys to the temporary safety of Novo-Minskaya, his
home village. General Kutepov only offered to take them by train toRostov.
p. 129: Re: Olga being unused to hard living. Working as a war-nurse
had assuredly hardened Olga by this time, and she had never been a
fainting violet anyway.
p. 134: Hvidore was NOT Minnie’s “childhood summer villa”. She and
her sister the Princess of Wales bought it together as married adultwomen.
p. 134: Phenix describes Minnie as “imposing”. She could pull off the
majesty trick when needed, but Minnie was a very small, delicatewoman.
p. 138: Re: Minnie sitting in the ground floor “glassed-in pergola” at
Hvidore watching the ships sail to Russia. It seems to me from my
reading, and from viewing pictures of Hvidore, that there is a
glassed-in lookout on top from which Minnie and her sister used to be
able to see Copenhagen and all the passing ships. Surely this is the
higher ground Minnie would require from which to obtain such views?
(Again see that far superior book, “Flight of the Romanovs”.)
p. 141: Phenix unfairly puts Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich in the same
class as Grand Duke Kyril Vladimirovich, by stating that, like Kyril,
he was “vying” for the Russian throne. Dmitri never did this. Kyril,
on the other hand, did too much of it.
p. 173: Strange sentence construction that can’t be ignored here re:
the Copenhagen church where Olga’s son Guri was married. Phenix would
have done better to write simply that Guri was married in the same
church where his grandmother’s funeral had been held a dozen yearsbefore.
p. 177: Since when was Victoria Melita, sister of Queen Marie of
Romania and wife successively of Grand Duke Ernst of Hessen-Darmstadt
and Grand Duke Kyril Vladimir’ich of Russia, a “commoner”? Phenix
also irritatingly refers here to “Grand Duke” Vladimir Kyrillovich.
p. 188: Re: the strains of Chopin’s “Prelude” floating through the
hotel lobby. Uh, WHICH prelude? He composed quite more than justone.
p. 196: Was the Akhtyrsky regiment not Olga’s own, rather than her
father Alexander’s?
p. 209: What’s this about Olga possessing a portrait of her father
that was cut from its frame in the Alexander Palace by, Zelig-like,
none other than Felix Yusupov? Felix did this with a pair of
Rembrandts in one of his own palaces, but I find this story hard tobelieve.
p. 231-32: With all due respect to the memory of Nicholas Kulikovsky,
Phenix needs to expand on her statement here that he had belonged to
one of the “most aristocratic” families in Russia.
Grant Menzies (from ATR)
Nice to read this. Grant Menzies wrote an accurate and excellent account of many errors in the book....but he forgot a major error...how come Grand-Duchess Olga's son needed a truck(lorry) to get possession of his mother's souvenirs from Imperial Russia? Phenix herself in other part of the book said GD Olga succeeded to escape Russia with few possessions and even if she inherited many from hier mother I don't think it would have been enough to fulfill an entire truck!
Alberto
Grant his a friend of mine Alberto, I'll contact him and find out what he says about that incident.
Kevin (from Australia)
Did he somehow manage to get some things out AFTER the fall of communism?
Sarah
Alberto, you have very sharp eyes! I suppose the reason why Phenix's "lorry" didn't strike me as odd is that it's reasonable that GD Olga would have had a good many Russian things at the time of her death. Not things brought out of Russia, because we know from many sources that she brought very little. (What was it that her maid was able to bring from Petersburg to the Crimea but a feathered hat and Olga's Maltese poodle - though to judge by the latter's adorableness he amounted to a goodly treasure all on his own But Russian things which were given to her. Think of the Russian treasures Anna Anderson left when she died, all of which were given to her. As I recall, the problem in the Phenix book was, as usual, the author's imprecise narrative style, which left lots of loose ends dangling. So a lorry may well have been needed. And for a long life of collecting, a lorry's worth isn't all that much, really.
Grant
Hello Grant
: I suppose
: the reason why Phenix's "lorry"
: didn't strike me as odd is that it's
: reasonable that GD Olga would have had a
: good many Russian things at the time of
: her death. Not things brought out of
: Russia, because we know from many sources
: that she brought very little. (What was it
: that her maid was able to bring from
: Petersburg to the Crimea but a feathered
: hat and Olga's Maltese poodle - though to
: judge by the latter's adorableness he
: amounted to a goodly treasure all on his
: own
You know, by what I know (very little) about GD Olga it's possible the poodle story might be very serious! More valuable than treasures.
: But Russian things which were
: given to her. Think of the Russian
: treasures Anna Anderson left when she
: died, all of which were given to her.
I don't remenber of the treasures of Anna Anderson. I see you have a very good memory! And you are certainly a Romanof expert! ( I thought Marie Antoinette was your speciality? Are you the same nice Grant Menzies from Oregon???)
: As
: I recall, the problem in the Phenix book
: was, as usual, the author's imprecise
: narrative style,
I agree! I think she had a lot of hard work, despite everything we can say against her terrible book. But maybe she would have better stayed home and reading many good books, connected or not with the Romanofs, and she would have learnt how to write well.......
: So a lorry may well have
: been needed. And for a long life of
: collecting, a lorry's worth isn't all that
: much, really.
You are right, thank you! I suppose the Russian colony in Ontario would be only too glad to give GD Olga souvenirs from her beloved Russia
Alberto
Before Olga & family left their farm in Denmark, most of her belongings were sold, but at least she brought with her to Canada some furniture, many paintings and a lot of self-decorated royal china.
Stig
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 11:25 PM from IP address 200.188.180.38
Since I started reading about (and got fascinated by) the Romanov-family, I recently borrowed a book at our local library called; " Anastasia, the lost princess " by James Blair Lovell.
Sorry to say..the more I read the more dismayed I got..
Very disappointing way of writing/very disappointing story ...
Any-one else with an opinion about this one?
Would like to hear/compare!
Marianne
marianne,
i could tell you stories about jimmy that would make your hair stand up.
the book was the absolute crap = he caused a lot of problems during the testing of Anna's intestinal tissue - he was none too pleased when he learned that I was a mole, and was actually feeding what he told me to several people including Peter Kurth and a reporter at the Charlottesville newspaper.
I outted myself willingly - because it was time to do so
Marlene
Thanks again Marlene;
well to tell the truth..I got so annoyed with the book & its contents that I've taken it back to the library..after just reading the first three chapters (now..for some-one who is VERY curious by nature that's a very silly thing to do .. but .. there you go..!)
I'm the kind of person who always wants to know how a film ends..same with books..but here I just didn't want to waste my time !
Oh well...
Marianne
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 11:28 PM from IP address 200.188.180.38
For those who would like to read more about French (Royal) history;
In just a few weeks time ~ on June 7th there will be brand-new book about Marie Antoinette!
Written by the well-known author; Antonia Fraser.
Book will be available at Amazon.co.uk
hardcover/ 496 pages
ISBNnumber; 0297819089
Marianne
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 11:14 PM from IP address 200.188.180.38
Hi everybody !
Does anybody know if there is a book existing about Gräfin Sophie Chotek, the woman who married Archduke Franz Ferdinand morganatically and later became Duchess of Hohenberg?
I have only found some books about Franz Ferdinand, it seems that there is no book existing about her.
Of course I know that she was a very private person and that she was only allowed to be at her husband´s side officially for two times: at the visits in Berlin and in Sarajewo ... But she is famous, ironically because of the circumstances of her death. So I wonder if there is really no book existing ...
Kat
Hello Kat
there's a wonderful book "The Secret of Sarajevo; the Story of Franz Ferdinand and Sophie" by Hertha Pauli. She talks about Sophie Chotek in detail, it's not a biography on her but it's a quite interesting good. You will find a link below where to buy this book on the Net
Alberto
Thanks a lot, Alberto.
I will try to get the book.
I looked in the internet and found out that it has been written in German and that some antiquarian bookshops still have German editions.
Kat
Great for you, Kat!
you will be able to read in the original language! enjoy the book, it's really very entertaining and full of informations
Alberto
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 11:12 PM from IP address 200.188.180.38
I know these magazines emphasize British royals but which one of these, in your opinion, does a better job of covering the European royals? Or are there other
English language publications that do better than either of them? Thanks for your
answers.
Betsy
The best magazine related with royals is far "Royalty Digest", you will be waiting the next issue because it is so good.
Try to subscribe to it, it is "the best".
Claudia
Majesty does rely on the British - because it is a British magazine, and that has been the focus since the inception. (The magazine was founded by Bob Houston, who had some problems and left.) He later founded Royalty - and this magazine has had problems, legal and otherwise. Majesty keeps to a monthly publication schedule. For some years, Royalty has not published according to a traditional schedule (MONEY). There were some legal and financial problems early in the last decade. I have not written for Royalty in some time -did in the late 80s and early 90s. As for Majesty, they do have foreign royal coverage - but they need to get people to write the stuff - commission pieces, for example. There is no writing staff. It's all freelance. The May issue has an article on Haakon and Mette-Marit -- the first of a three part series, entitled ROyal Entanglements. The JUne article is about Willem-Alexander and Maxima, and July's piece is on Frederik and Felipe.
Royalty Digest is a good magazine - historical and scholarly pieces.
Marlene
Each has its pluses and minuses. Majesty is nice and glossy, with some original articles and scoops not really found in Royalty. The photo quality in Royalty is somewhat poor. I think we had this discussion not too long ago.
With the physical comparisons aside, Majesty is a bit better on the non-British royal coverage. For instance it covered the Danish weddings, the new grand ducal couple of Luxembourg and a bunch of other subjects. But that doesn't rule out Royalty. They had something on Queen Noor a ways back, but their stuff tends to be a rehash of stories we've already heard about.
Jan
Betsy
concerning coverage on European Royals the best by far is "Royalty Digest". Right, it has more to do with History than with present events, but it's SO interesting!
You can get a subscription writting to Minet.Royalty@BTInternet.com (if you write to them mention this MB...maybe they will take notice of us)
30 pounds an year subscription, including postage.
As for Royalty vs. Majesty I hope someone else will help you, I am not at all a regular buyer but I remenber I found one of them better than the other one, but I don't remenber which one
Alberto
Thank you Alberto. I think I will try "Royalty
Digest", but wow 30 pounds is pretty steep.
Do you know how often it is published?
Betsy
Hello Betsy
I believe the other British magazines would be even more expensive...
"Royalty Digest" is monthly, 12 issues a year
Alberto
Ingrid Seward treats continental news as an afterthought, unless it's a really big event such as a wedding or has a strong British connection. She is too busy sucking up to the official line as best as she can follow it from Sir Michael Peat or even worse, whoever the latest p.r. person is working overtime for Charles and his mistress. I don't care that much about the photo coverage when I can read interesting things about continental royals and get a break from the bloody Windsors. Royalty has had interesting stories on all sorts of European royalty both reigning and non-reigning. They have done some fascinating pieces on Balkan royals which I really enjoyed. If I want to read something that's little more than an extended version of the court circular, then I'll just read the court circular!
Julian
Julian --
Ingrid has far less to do with the day to day workings of Majesty - that's the responsibility of Joe Little, the editor.
Marlene
--Previous Message--
: Julian --
: Ingrid has far less to do with the day to day
: workings of Majesty - that's the
: responsibility of Joe Little, the editor.
:
Well, he is certainly toeing the very tight line on things she has obviously laid down for him while she is off doing her jet-set promotional tours for her horrid book.
Julian
I think that Ingrid has very little, actually, to do with the magazine.
Marlene
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 9:39 PM from IP address 200.188.180.38
I know that this is a board about royal books, but I was wondering if anyone know how I can get book or video on royal weddings (i.e.) Joaquim & Alexandra, Infantas Elena and Cristina, etc.
Thanks
Shorna
Shorna, I checked with Spanish television. They did not release any commercial videos for Infanta Elena and Cristina's. There are no plans to release on video. I don't believe there were any special books on either marriage as I checked afterward (and I publish a newsletter on royal books), but the magazines such as Hola, Diez Minutos, Semana and Lectura largely devoted their issues to commemorating the wedding. Diez Minutos included a special coin in honor of each of the two weddings. The Spanish don't have the same publishing interests as the British publishers. There are very few books on the Spanish royals in comparison to the British or the Dutch.
Marlene
"There are very few books on the Spanish royals in comparison to the British or the Dutch"
in comparison with the British(and Dutch and French) markets maybe, but anyway every year at least 4(four) new biographies are published on menbers of the Spanish Royal Family (who were born after 1800) every year
Alberto
that is a low number compared to british publishers -= and very very few books are on the modern royals although the output has improved in the last 5 years or so.
Marlene
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 9:29 PM from IP address 200.188.180.38
Ian Vorres's "The Last Grand Duchess" and the next bio on Tihon Kulikovsky
by Alberto
I was in Washington DC three weeks ago and went into the Arts and Industries Building on The Mall , where I discovered a display of Grand Duchess Olga's paintings (about 6) with some photographs of her.
The display is called "After The Splendor -Art of the Last Grand Duchess of Russia"
I asked at the information how long it would be on for but they are not certain.
The case had a list of sources about Olga including the Vorres book The Last Grand Duchess (1964)and it also said an updated version of this book is coming out in Fall 2001
Mark
Hello Mark
thank you very much for the information! It will be of great interest to the many people who are interested in GD Olga's life in theis Message Board. I think few of them(us) have the original copy as it was mentionned here it's so rare and expensive. Great we will have an oportunity to find it more available next year! (and by the way I am reading right now her so criticised biography by Patricia Phenix, now this is a coincidence!)
Ian Vorres was very young when he wrote his biography on her and certainly he msut be alive and maybe he was in charge of this exposition as he is an art historian.
As for her paintings I am including one of them and on the link below one can see more
Alberto
--Previous Message--
: Ian Vorres was very young when he wrote his
: biography on her and certainly he msut be
: alive and maybe he was in charge of this
: exposition as he is an art historian.
I guess it was the bio by Patricia Phenix that prompted Ian Vorres to publish a new edition of his book, because I know she has kind of trodden on his toes. I was told last year that Vorres even threatens proceedings against her - but I don't know exactly why.
Stig
Hello Stig
thank you very much. It's a mysterious affair...on page 293 of her biography Phenix mentions Ian Vorres' book among her "List of Obtained Permissions".
Well, it seems things are going to become quite hot...
Alberto
I have and I read both books, in my opinion they are very interestings and both have errors.
If you can, read them both.
Claudia
Am looking forward to this new edition ( I searched the net for the original..but those for sale were far too expensive at this moment!).
What I, personally, would like to read would be a book about Olga's sons...they have both lived a rather ~let's say ~ unusual life..and they sure might have (had) many interesting stories to tell..
May be some of Olga's descendants will write something..someday???
Marianne
--Previous Message--
: Am looking forward to this new edition ( I
: searched the net for the original..but
: those for sale were far too expensive at
: this moment!).
Well, if you just can't wait to read the book, you should buy the Danish edition, which was republished last year (150 kr.)
: What I, personally, would like to read would
: be a book about Olga's sons...they have
: both lived a rather ~let's say ~ unusual
: life..and they sure might have (had) many
: interesting stories to tell..
: May be some of Olga's descendants will write
: something..someday???
If everything goes well, you won't have to wait more than a few months to read a Danish book on Olga's first-born son Tihon Kulikovsky...
Stig
Yes thanks, I had gathered as much from some rumors I heard lately (!).
Looking forward to it!
Marianne
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 7:54 PM from IP address 200.188.180.38
They are our cousins and I am trying hard to build a homepage with photo's but all day I kept going around and around and around in circles,will someone just build the page for
us please ? If you decide to do this add one photo of yourself to our homepage we will keep your photo their,on our new homepage for all the world to see,I just cannot stay focused no matter how hard I try,I am getting very dissapointed and sad,as my mother passed away with bone and brain cancer and we lost a daughter in 1999.Sorry I just cannot get this done.
Sincerly Mrs.Debbie Nice Herlein
P.S.I'm so tired
Posted on Oct 6, 2005, 10:43 AM from IP address 66.168.155.75
"Divorced, behead survived" "The National Portrait etc" "Vännen min" Q
by Alberto
Hi !
This is my first time here, so please excuse if my two book suggestion all ready been brought up here.
I would like to recommend two good books that I've read recently.
The first is a book by Karen Lindsey.
The name of the book is "Divorced, behead survived"
Published 1995
ISBN : 91-7738-424-5
It's about the six wives of Henry VIII, whose destiny have fascinated the world for fourhundred years.
The book is very well written and you'll get a really insight in this women's lives and destiny.
The second book is by David Williamson.
The name of the book is "The National Portrait Gallery History of The Kings and Queens of England".
Published 1998
ISBN : 1-85514-228-7
It's the story of the kings and queens of England from the Anglosaxons to the reigning family today Windsors.
I used this book when I was writing an essay about Elizabeth I in 1999, and I found it very amusing and helpful to my essay.
The book has over 100 illustrations and colour family trees.
Two good books to read in your hammock this summer !!
Kajsa from Sweden
Hello Kajsa
: This is my first time here, so please excuse
: if my two book suggestion all ready been
: brought up here.
Oh, no! It's the first time these books are mentionned here, thank you very much indeed!
: It's about the six wives of Henry VIII, whose
: destiny have fascinated the world for
: four hundred years.
We have talked here about the books by Alison Weir, do you know this author? Nice to know Karen Lindsey wrote a good book about this fascinating subject as well!
: It's the story of the kings and queens of
: England from the Anglosaxons to the
: reigning family today Windsors.
: I used this book when I was writing an essay
: about Elizabeth I in 1999, and I found it
: very amusing and helpful to my essay.
: The book has over 100 illustrations and
: colour family trees.
It sounds very interesting, it's rare to see colour family trees! teh name of David Williamson is not unkown to me, but I don't remenber what he has written. Do you know his background?
: Two good books to read in your hammock this
: summer !!
Unfortunately Kevin(from Australia), Claudia from Chile and myself will face winter now...you are lucky to live in a warm country like Sweden! I think Chile has had the first snow storms already. Prince William was smart to go there during the summer...
Alberto
Hi Kasja!!
Welcome here at this Book Board!!
And thanks for telling about two very interesting books too!
Since you're from Sweden may be you might tell us here, from time to time, about Royal Books about the Bernadottes or other Scandinavian Royals?
There are, in fact, many people who would love to know that too!!
There seems to be an increasing interest f.e. in the Late Crown princess Margaretha, and her successor, Queen Louise of Sweden, so if you should hear about new books..please tell us so!
Tack så mycket!!
Marianne
"Since you're from Sweden may be you might tell us here, from time to time, about Royal Books about the Bernadottes or other Scandinavian Royals?"
Oh Marianne
it would be GREAT if Kasja could do it!!!!
Alberto
Hi again !!
Well .. first I'd like to apologise to you because I wrote the "wrong" ISBN on Karen Lindsey's book.
Since I've only read it in Swedish so I wrote the ISBN for Sweden ... I'm so sorry
I haven't read any more books by David Williamson , but I do know that he's the co-editor of Debrett's Peerage and Barontage and Debrett's Kings and Queens of Britain.
The spring has just arrived here in Sweden and the weather has been warm and sunny the last couple of days.
I've just arrived from Copenhagen, watching the rehearsal of the Eurovision Song Contest in Parken.
I live near Malmö , so it takes about 2 hours to get to Copenhagen by train.
I like to read books, especially about royalty.
I read a lot of books when I was doing a big essay on Europe's Seven Royal Houses last year.
Among those I read a book about Queen Astrid of Belgium , the Swedish title of the book was "Vännen min" (My friend) and was written by a very close friend to Astrid , Anna Sparre, in 1986.
It's a very touching book, I almost felt the tears in my eyes coming.
I don't know if this book is translated,but if it's , let me know !
Good Night !
Kajsa from Sweden
Hello Kasja
how are you?
: I read a book about Queen Astrid
: of Belgium , the Swedish title of the book
: was "Vännen min" (My friend) and
: was written by a very close friend to
: Astrid , Anna Sparre, in 1986.
: It's a very touching book, I almost felt the
: tears in my eyes coming.
: I don't know if this book is translated,but
: if it's , let me know !
Now, this is indeed curious...as Paula from Portugal is an expert on Queen Astrid and an admirer of her! She was talking about her a few days ago, certainly she will find VERY interesting knowing about this book!
Alberto
ps: as for the Eurovision Song Contest it seems no menbr of the Danish RF will be present...I hope you will enjoy this contest
There is a French version of this book, which is actaully now on its way to Paula in Portugal!
Another book (in French) about the late Queen Astrid is by Pascal Dayez-Burgeon.
I bought it in Brussels last year; there are still many copies of this book around!
ISBN; 2-7413-0114-X
(publishing firm is Criterion
11, rue Duguay-Trouin 75006, Paris)
Marianne
There is also a Dutch version: "Koningin Astrid, een vriendschap". It is indeed a very moving book, worth to read.
Eric
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 7:39 PM from IP address 200.188.181.92
Hello
since this is a MB concerned with BOOKS and because of it LIBRARIANS here have a place of HONOUR and are MOST welcome I will commnent the not-royalty connected book "Double Fold: Libraries and the Assault on Paper" by Nicholson Baker.
I didn't read the book, I am just reading its review by famous historian Robert Darnton on "The New York Review of Books", and as a matter of fact I didn't read all the review yet as I thought the accusaations against librarians so EXPLOSIVE I wanted to ask questions to the royalty interested librarians of this Message Board.
First I would like to say I find the profession of Librarian the most charming, in my opinion. I admire more doctors and nurses but I like much more librarians, I always get along well personally with librarians all over the world.
Nicholson Baker says libraries and librarians have destroyed millions and millions of primary sources: the newspapers. Against old beliefs we had to learn in History Course on University (classes given by professors from the Library School) the old paper created with chemicals after 1870 is DOING VERY WELL till today and there's no reason to believe it will be otherwise in the next 2 or 3 centuries. Institutions like Yale and Chicago Universities and the famous Library of Congress destroyed newspapers saying they would not resist time, and libraries need space. They have replaced newspapers with microfilm, which is far from the ideal solution as microfilm is LESS resistant to time than old cheap paper, and worse still: MUCH has not been put into microfilm and in the process SOURCES for History has been tragically lost for ever! Librarians, like Patricia Battin who "led the attack on paper" according to Baker, say sets of microfilms are complete if they lack 6 percent of tehir issues. Not to mention Baker says mcrofilms are very expenisve. Until this point Darnton agrees with Baker, but then Darnton criticizes Baker for accusing Librarians of turning their obsession with space into an "ideology". Librarians have "demonized the paper" "They hate the stuff and want to get rid of it at all costs", here Darnton thinks Baker goes beyond believability.
I stopped reading the article on this point; but I see Darnton and Baker say preservation does not mean destruction, the destruction was unnecessary, the destruction was brutal, etc. And Baker says now there's a great danger Librarians will destroy BOOKS as well, always in the name of space. Well, what is your opinion??
Alberto
It is certainly wonderful to be appreciated, Alberto! But in partial answer to your question, a little background . . . Nicholson Baker has also gone ballistic over the replacement of card catalogs (which are HORRIBLY labor-intensive, thus expensive, and not as flexible as computer-based systems), so he has his own set of perceptions on libraries. Marlene has obvious lots ofexperience with newspaper and other news libraries, and has better addressed the many preservation formats available today, which for the most part are better options. I will also add that libraries, be they university, public, or even private, are not well-funded and all sorts of painful decisions regarding staffing, space, and service priorities have to be made. There are of course different decisions at different libraries - for instance, a public library system or small college doesn't have the preservation issues or responsibilities of, say, Harvard University or the Library of Congress. I throw away book all of the time - but it's because they are outdated (in an information sense, say a book on current treatment of cancer from 1992 . . .) or simply falling apart. And most libraries are not archival. BUT THE BOOK, NEW OR OLD, IS NOT DEAD!!!!!
When a librarian is actually elected president (instead of the spouse of one, be he a self-proclaimed "education president" or not) . . well . . . more attention needs to be paid to libraries, and there is much work to be done.
Sarah
And speaking of books, you must read ALL OF THE TIME, Alberto! I am amazed at what you manage to get read. Personally, I think we should all have an eighth day of the week just for reading.
Sarah
: Sarah, please hand me a paper towel - the comment on card catalogs made me spill my tea. Blessed are they who nuked card catalogs. Electronic cataloging is a gift from God
Makes life so much easier - you can sit in your nightie and look at library catalogs.
You are absolutely right about costs, etc., but the problems of funding (or rather lack of funding) start at local levels. A very good friend of mine is the director of a library in upstate NY, and she is in the process of weeding collections - and having to deal every year with budgets and how much money she won't be getting.
I remember when I turned my home card catalog into electronic = retyping everything. But I wish I had a program for cataloging by subject
Marlene
Right
I should have readen till the end....the author Nicholson Baker is a bit weird, he even puts CIA in the book...
Ang I quote Robert Darnton:
"Space is a serious problem for librarians, not one that they attempt to conjure away by "demonization" or by giving free rein to some psychic loathing of paper. Paper can be fragile. Books are often damaged. Microfilming does preserve at least some of the historical record"
But Darnton agrees with some of Baker's recommendations, one of them is public libraires should publish monthly lists of discards...
It's a shame funds to libraries are so small, I wonder if the ellectorate really wants libraries being treated this way! I don't think so
Alberto
Some libraries have started to sell certain withdrawn titles (I guess the proper word is "deaccessioned") online - ebay and such - but that is also very labor-intensive.
Sarah
The Libraries here in Australia tend to sell there "old" books to the readers themselves. Very often do you enter a Library and there will be a table with books for sale on them, that's how I got my copy of Noel Gerard's Princess Alice for 50 cents, just a cover that was slightly torn.
Kevin (from Australia)
The library in the village where I live does the same thing. At least once a year they put up many very old books for sale. This accomplishes two things, clearing more space for new books and making some money for the library.
Betsy
Many libraries do publish what they discard - and books are discarded for all sorts of reasons including being out of date. Some books are destroyed, others get sent to the book drives .... some books ends up in Third World countries.
If the electorate cared, they would vote for local officials who would spend more money - but here in the USA, we dont like spending a lot of money - lower taxes, less government spending.
Marlene
Alberto,
I am a professional librarian (Master of Library Science, State University of NY at Albany, 1981)It is rather expensive to store newspapers. Also difficult to use without an index to match. Microfilm was the answer because it was for many years the only other way to save a newspaper. The NYTimes is complete as far as I know on microfilm. But microfilm has to kept at a certain temperature, and it is not difficult to make further copies. Newspapers don't even save their own papers anymore. I've been a news librarian for 20 or so years. It used to be microfilm; now it is electronic databases, digital, CD storage. The Library of Congress is involved in a major digitalization of its material.
There is no international librarian conspiracy here ...
nowhere do I see you mention - digital or CD scanning. newspapers themselves contract with firms to do their microfilming.
Old newspapers do deteriorate over time - and would be difficult to use - Microfilm allowed for thousands of people to access a newspaper - CD=ROM, digital, electronic databases allow even more.
Marlene
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 7:28 PM from IP address 200.188.181.92
"Genealogía de la Casa de Borbón en España" "La Descendance de Marie-Thérèse de Habsb
by Alberto
Hi everybody !
Perhaps one of you can help me?
I am searching for the descendants from the second marriage of Maria Christina of Bourbon-Sicily (1806-1878). She first married King Ferdinand VII of Spain and became the mother of Queen Isabella II. After her husband´s death in 1833, she secretly married Don Augustin Fernando Munoz y Sanchez, Duque de Riansares (1808-1873) in 1833.
I know that they have at least two daughters:
1. Maria de los Desamparados, called Maria Amparo, (1834-1864). She married Prince Wladyslaw Czartoryski in 1855.
2. Maria Christina (1840-1921). She was married to Don Jose Bernaldo de Quiros y Gonzales de Cienfuegos. Maria Christina had the title of a Marquesa de la Isabela.
Now my questions:
1. Did Maria Christina and Don Augustin have any more children?
2. Who is the present Duke de Riansares?
3. Why does the younger sister Maria Christina have a title and the elder sister Maria Amparo has no title? Or did she have a title, too?
Please help me, I searched in the internet for hours and could not find more information.
Greetings from Germany, Kat.
Helo Kat
here you have more details by courtesy of Alejandro de la Orden, who consulted the book "Genealogía de la Casa de Borbón en España"
by Francisco Javier Zorrilla y Gonzalez de Mendoza:
"Al fallecimiento de Fernando VII, la Reina Doña Maria Cristina casó morganaticamente en segundas nupcias, en la Capilla del Palacio Real, el 28 de diciembre de 1833 (cuyo matrimonio se mantuvo en secreto por razones de Estado), con
don Agustín Fernando Muñoz y Sanchez, Funes y Ortega,
primer gentilhombre de Cámara de la Reina,
I Duque de Riansares (Real despacho de la reina gobernadora, de 23 de junio de 1844),
Grande de España de 1ª clase,
I Marqués de San Agustin (Real despacho de doña Isabel II, de 30 de mayo de 1846),
I Duque de Montmorot en Francia (1852),
Teniente General de los Reales Ejércitos,
Senador del Reino,
Caballero de la insigne Orden del Toisón de Oro,
Maestrante de Granada,
Gran Cruz de la Real y Distinguida Orden española de Carlos III,
Hijo de don Juan Antonio Muñoz y Funes, Carrillo de Torres y Martinez,
I Conde de Retamoso (Real Despacho de doña Isabel II, de 12 de diciembre de 1846),
Y de doña Eusebia Sanchez y Ortega;
Nieto de doña Eugenia Funes, natural de Tarancón, casada con don Javier Muñoz y nodriza que fue en 1775 de la infanta doña Carlota Joaquina, primogenita de los entonces Principes de Asturias don Carlos y doña Maria Luisa, y como se venia haciendo con todas las nodrizas, Carlos III firmó en Aranjuez, el 30 de mayo de 1780, el privilegio de Hidalguia, para ella, su marido e hijos y descendientes.
Don Fernando Muñoz nació en Tarancón (Cuenca) el 4 de mayo de 1808 y falleció en Saint-Adresse, cerca del Havre (Francia) el 13 de septiembre de 1878
De este matrimonio tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
I.Doña María Amparo Muñoz y Borbón.
I Condesa de Vista-Alegre (concedido el Condado por Doña Isabel II, por Real Despacho de 9 de agosto de 1847).
Nació en el Palacio del Pardo el 17 de noviembre de 1834, falleció de tuberculosis en París, el 19 de agosto de 1864, y su cadáver fue trasla-dado a Polonia e inhumado en la Cripta familiar de los Czar-toryski en Sieniawa.
Contrajo matrimonio en el Castillo de la Malmaison, el 1 de marzo de 1855, con Ladislao, XI Prín-cipe de Czartoryski, Duque de Klevan y de Zukow; hijo del Príncipe Adán Jorge y de la Princesa Ana Sapieha. Nació el 3 de julio de 1828 y falleció el 23 de junio de 1894. El Prínci-pe casó en segundas nupcias, el 15 de enero de 1872, con Doña Margarita, Princesa de Orleans, hija de los Duques de Nemours.
II.Doña María de los Milagros Muñoz y Borbón.
I Marquesa de Castillejo (Real Despacho de Doña Isabel II, de 19 de agos-to de 1847).
Nació en el Palacio del Pardo el día 8 de noviem-bre de 1835.
Contrajo matrimonio en el Castillo de la Mal-maison, el día 23 de enero de 1856, con Felipe, II Príncipe del Drago, de Mazzano, de Antuni y de Trevignano, Conde de Ascrea, nacido en Roma el 1 de marzo de 1824.
III. Don Agustín María Muñoz y Borbón.
I Duque de Tarancón (Real Decreto de Doña Isabel II, de 19 de noviembre de 1847), Grande de España.
I Vizconde de Rostrollano (Real Despacho de Doña Isabel II, de 10 de junio de 1849),
Guardiamarina.
Nació en el Palacio Real de Madrid el 15 de marzo de 1837 y falleció soltero en junio de 1855 en el Castillo de la Malmaison de París.
IV.Don Fernando María Muñoz y Borbón.
II Duque de Riansa-res y de Tarancón,
I Vizconde de la Alborada, (Real Decreto de Doña Isabel II, de 19 de noviembre de 1847),
I Conde de Casa Muñoz (Real Despacho de Doña Isabel II, de 29 de fe-brero de 1848),
II vizconde de Rostrollano (1857).
Dos veces Grande de España,
Coronel de Caballería.
Nació en Madrid el 27 de abril de 1838 y falleció en Somio (Gijón), el 7 de di-ciembre de 1910.
Contrajo matrimonio en Oviedo el día 11 de septiembre de 1861, con doña Eladia Bernaldo de Quirós y González-Cienfuego, hija de los VII Marqueses de Campo Sa-grado, nacida en Oviedo el 18 de febrero de 1839 y fallecida en Gijón el 31 de marzo de 1909.
V.Doña María Cristina Muñoz y Borbón.
I Marquesa de la Isabela (Real Despacho de Doña Isabel II, de 29 de febrero de 1848),
I Vizcondesa de la Dehesilla (Concesión de Doña Isa-bel II, por Real Despacho de 29 de febrero de 1848),
Dama de la Orden de María Luisa.
Nació en el Palacio Real de Ma-drid el 19 de abril de 1840.
Contrajo matrimonio el 20 de oc-tubre de 1860 en el Castillo de la Malmaison con don José María Bernaldo de Quirós y González Cienfuegos, IX Mar-qués de Campo Sagrado, fallecido en Villa (Oviedo) el 24 de abril de 1911.
VI. Don Juan María Muñoz y Borbón,
I Conde del Recuerdo (Real Despacho de la Reina Doña Isabel II, de 29 de febrero de 1848),
I Vizconde de Villarrubio (Real Decreto de Doña Isabel II de 19 de noviembre de 1847),
II Duque de Montmo-rot en Francia (8 de enero de 1862),
Ayudante de Campo del Emperador Napoleón III;
nació el 29 de agosto de 1841,
no contrajo matrimonio, falleció sin sucesión
VII. Don Antonio de Padua Muñoz y Borbón,
nacido el 23 de di-diciembre de 1842.
VIII. Don José María Muñoz y Borbón,
I Conde de Gracia (Real Despacho de Doña Isabel II, de 29 de febrero de 1848),
I Vizconde de la Arboleda (Real Despacho de 2 de junio de 1849);
Nació en París el 6 de febrero de 1844 y falleció soltero en Pau el 17 de diciembre de 1863."
Alberto
Hi
here you have the answers. For further information see the books "La Descendance de Marie-Thérèse de Habsburg" by Nicolas Enache, link below, and "El Libro de Oro de los Duques" by Vicenta María Márquez de la Plata and Luis Valero de Bernabé
: Now my questions: 1. Did Maria Christina and
: Don Augustin have any more children?
Yes
-don Augustin who died only 18 years old
-doña Maria Milagros
-don Fernando who inherited the title of duke of Riansares
-don Juan
-don Antonio
-don José-Maria
8 children in total
: 2. Who is the present Duke de Riansares?
The present V Duke of Riansares is Don José Muñoz y Acebal married to doña Maria de las Mercedes Santa Marina y Rodríguez
: 3. Why does the younger sister Maria
: Christina have a title and the elder
: sister Maria Amparo has no title? Or did
: she have a title, too?
Doña Maria Amparao received the title condessa de Vista Alegre on 9th august 1847
Alberto
Alberto,
You seem to be very knowledgeable about Spanish Royalty/Nobility. Perhaps you could join us at the Franco/Spanish message board. We'd love to have your input!
Christy
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 7:16 PM from IP address 200.188.181.92
my grandma was eliza sanchez born in madrid 18?? she was a royal family from condes my grandpha fernando medina they came to mexico i would like you to help me to find my routes thank you
Posted on Jul 18, 2005, 2:18 AM from IP address 67.112.143.104
Hello
Jwgo mentionned a few days ago some new books on the Sultans. It was very nice.
And I find my copy of the book "The Sultans" by Noel Barber, a very good book.
There are 190 copies available on the Net on the link below
Alberto
Hello Alberto
Thank you for the link.
I have not yet bought a book through the Internet BUT I have saved the site onto Favourites and next week will make an attempt to buy one of the copies.
Jwgo
Posted on Jun 30, 2001, 7:12 PM from IP address 200.188.181.92
Hello
after reading the messages by Stig below I kept thinking on a charming book: "Leurs Majestés" by Xavier Paoli, ISBN 2-84394-188-1, Biarritz, 1999. Re-edition of book originally published in 1912.
Xavier Paoli was a captain of the french police and he was choose to be in charge of the protection of all Royalty who visited France because he was intelligent, well-educated, etc, in short a pleasant company for Royalty. He had many men under his orders and he served as a "companion" to Royalty while they were in france "incognito", in this capacity Paoli formed friendship with many Royals.
Among them....Queen Willelmina and Queen Emma of Netherlands.
And he says on page 178:
"...It was in the spring of 1898- so memorable in her(Willelmina's) life as it marked her political majority and the official begnning of her Reign - that she made her first visit to Paris before going to Cannes for the wedding of prince Christian of Denmark to the Duchess of Mecklembourg"
Then on page 180:
"A week after their arrival in Paris the 2 Queens left to Cannes; called, by my service, by the side of Queen Victoria, who had just arrived precisely in Cannes, I was obliged to leave a few days before the august travellers. I would see them again only on the wedding of prince Christian of Denmark.."
So....why would he lie or confuse things? And apparently the English tradition of not going to Royal weddings of not-immediate family started with Queen Victoria, not Elizabeth II as Queen Victoria was in Cannes at the time of the Danish-Mecklemburg wedding. I understand a book was published about Queen victoria's trips to the French Riviera, maybe this book would cast more light in this topic.
I cannot understand though why Stig says 2 books mentionned the Dutch Queens went tot he wedding but other books say they did not go and on Jacques Ferrand's book one does not see the Queens on the group picture. But apparently Paoli was responsible for teh security of the Royalty present at this wedding...
I post now the chapters of this unpretentious book:
1 My role beside the Sovereigns
2 Empress Elizabeth of Austria
3 The Shah of Persia
4 The King and Queen of Italy
5 The Tsar and the Tsarine
6 King Edward VII
7 Queen Willelmine
8 King Leopold
9 King Georges of Greece
10 The Royal Family of England
11 The King of Cambodge and his dancers
12 Queen Victoria
Alberto
Thanks Alberto, quite interesting.
Maybe some of our Dutch friends know where to find more information?
Stig
Hello
on the book "Beloved and Darling Child" letters between Queen Victoria and her eldest daughter from 1886 till 1901, one can read this one:
"From the Queen
Cimiez(obs: Cimiez is very close to Cannes), April 26, 1898
...Tomorrow dear Marie Erbach leaves us...Yesterday I saw the young Queen of the Netherlands, such a charming girl, so simple, so dignified and pretty, with a sweet expression and lovely complexion and pretty figure. She reminds me of myself(OBS: so modest of this elderly lady!!!!) from her extremely yuthful appearence. Her excellent mother came with her, so pleasant, simple and "sympathique"...."
So Queen Victoria wrote this letter on the very same day as the wedding of the future prince of denmark, which took place a few kilometres away. I wonder if she KNEW about this wedding as she makes no mention at all.
And the day before the wedding Queen Emma and Queen Willelmina paid a visit to the old Queen. Did Queen Emma go to the wedding? (I don't believe Queen Willelmina would go as she was single and her presence there would rase all kinds of rumours)
And what about princess Marie Erbarch, born princess of Battenberg?
If Queen Emma didn't go to the wedding after all, was it because of the failure of a project of marriage between Queen Willelmina and prince Harald of Denmark?????
Alberto
--Previous Message--
: So Queen Victoria wrote this letter on the
: very same day as the wedding of the future
: prince of denmark, which took place a few
: kilometres away. I wonder if she KNEW
: about this wedding as she makes no mention
: at all.
Well, Queen Victoria knew the family and had also met Alexandrine in Cannes - so I am quite sure she knew also about the wedding.
: And the day before the wedding Queen Emma and
: Queen Willelmina paid a visit to the old
: Queen. Did Queen Emma go to the wedding?
: (I don't believe Queen Willelmina would go
: as she was single and her presence there
: would rase all kinds of rumours)
Maybe we have to trust one of my books. It says that Queen Emma was present at the religious wedding ceremony. The reason I doubted this is that the book identifies some of the other guests wrongly. In another book with a groupphoto from the wedding, Queen Emma was mentioned in the caption - but she was definitely not in the picture.
Queen Wilhelmina met Prince Christian one of the days leading up to the wedding, when she had been out sailing with Princess Alexandra (of Hannover?), and Christian waited for them ashore.
The last time Prince Christian visited Alexandrine in Cannes before the wedding, a serious accident occurred that might have turned their happiness into tragedy. Grand Duchess Anastasia's chamberlain, Count Voss, had invited Christian & Alexandrine out for a drive in his car - but in the mountains the car suddenly hit a rock, drove off the road and rolled down a steep slope. Luckily, noone was seriously injured, but for many years Christian didn't like the idea of driving a car.
Stig
I do not think that Queen Emma wanted her daughter to marry a danish prince. There were no rumours in the dutch press about it. As I look it up in the book about Queen W. by Cees Fasseur, the only princes mentioned where the Teck-brothers (but Emma thought that they were to "low"for her daughter, and there was a the dutch people where very anti-british when the Boer-war broke out, so no english prince for Wilhelmina)
Besides, Queen Emma agreed with the german emperor who said: 'nur ein Deutscher Prinz darf sie bekommen'
So they found prince Hendrik (after Q W. made it clear that she wasn t interested in prince Friedrich-Wilhelm of Prussia, and her mother rejected any of the Wied-brothers, who were found to be from to "low" nobility to)
Helena
searching..searching...!!
Although there is very little known about the travels both Queen Emma & her daughter undertook together..apart from the usual trips to the German family of Queen Emma.
After she was married Queen Wilhelmina has been travelling to f.e. Scotland and Norway (mostly because she loved the wild beauty & wanted to paint it too!).
Alberto; as for Queen Victoria's travels to the Rivièra etc.; I've read a rather lively account by her daughter Beatrice (who so often accompagnied her) about those horrible train-rides to the sunny south.....!
One shouldn't envy her at all!!
Marianne
Now see what you've done; I started searching for my own Queens'travels..and what do I find ...lots of books about Queen Victorias' travels...!
Allright..just to keep you busy;
* Queen Victoria in Switzerland by Peter Arengo-Jones (available through Amazon)
Published in 1995.
ISBN: 0709053657
* Queen Victoria's travels & family by Jane Roberts (available through Amazon as well)
Published May 1999.
ISBN: 1902498011
*Travels with Queen Victoria
unknown author (available through Amazon..) Published June 16th, 1997
ISBN: 7215960528
Marianne
* Queen Victoria and the Discovery of the Riviera by Michael Nelson
Published; November 2000
ISBN: 1860646468
Review;
" This book reveals Q V's rich experiences during her nine little-known visits to the Cote d'Azur. It contains lively anecdotes about those who accompagnied her, including her dour Scottish gillie, John Brown, and the troublesome Indian Munshi.
Brown - who didn't like the Riviera and thought that Irish revolutionaries were plotting to assassinate the Queen there - amazed the locals by wearing a kilt together with a topee. The Queen played a key role in making the Riviera the leading holiday resort in Europe, and she had a major impact on the economy of the area!
She arrived there for the first time in Spring 1882 when she was 62!!
That region, which she called "a paradise of nature", wrought a transformation to the last two decades of her life.
Whenever she arrived on French soil, her face lit up and she shed many of the inhibitions of her life in England.
She visited the Riviera more often than any other part of Continental Europe (!!).
Her guests there included extra-ordinary European Royalty; such as the reprobate Leopold II of the Belgians, who married a former prostitute on his death-bed, and his daughters Louise & Stephanie .. central caracters in two of the greatest royal scandals of the 19th. century. The text of this book is illustrated with coloured French postcards..making fun of the Queen
Marianne
This book will be reviewed in the next issue of Royal Book news!
Marlene
Looking forward to it!
Marianne
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 7:28 PM from IP address 200.188.181.139
Books by Victoria's Grandchildren(Q Marie of Romania, Princess Marie Louise, etc)
by Alberto
How does 'The Story of My Life' by Queen Marie of Roumania compare with 'For My Grandchildren' and 'My Memories of Six Reigns'?
I have never come across these volumes. Have they been out of print for many years?
Jwgo
marie wrote with a lot of flourish and grandiose statements ... her 2 vols (split into three in Britain) were published in the early 30s - good insight, but she was a drama queen. marie louise's autobiography was written a year or so before she died and Alice's books was published in 1966, I think. I have all in my library at home
Marlene
Jwgo
in my opinion Queen Marie's memoirs are by far the most interesting. But it was one of the first memoirs I read in my life...one gets more critical with age...
But princess Marie Louise's memoirs are a pure DELIGHT!!!! She was witty, funny, and so nice when she wrote this book! Do you know, Marlene, if she had a ghost-writer? But to find out the truth about her marriage I advise you to read "Queen victoria's Descendants" anyway...
As for princess Alice's memoirs I cannot remenber having read what Marianne said about princess Alice looking the Dutch RF down, I will have to read the book again
Alberto
I am not sure that she looked down on her dutch family, but somewhere I red that she envied Queen Wilhelmina's wealth and she could not get over it that her husband, was not found good enough for her dutch cousin, so she always made a full of Prince Hendrik (which was not a difficult thing to do, because he really behaved bad)
Helena
But I don't wanna read Queen Victoria's Descendants ...
as for Marie Louise and a ghost writer -- not sure..may have had some editing help
Marlene
I would love to read 'Queen Victoria's Descendants'! I wish I'd asked for it at Christmas instead of Christopher Hibbard's book.
Thank you all for replies. I'd enjoy the style of Queen Marie's book. I've been on her photo album site.
I wonder if any of you have 'My Memories of Six Reigns' in a hardback edition. Both my copies have been Penguins. I lost my original bought in 1959.
Jwgo
you can give QVD as a present to yourself ..
yes, I have marie louise's book in hardcover
Marlene
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 7:10 PM from IP address 200.188.181.139
Hello
in the wonderful book by Jacques Ferrand “Romanoff, un Album de Famille” I found a full page picture taken on Villa Wenden à Cannes on the day of the wedding of the Crown Prince of Denmark with Duchess Alexandrine of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin.
Here you have the list of all who were in this group picture:
1 Crown Prince of denmark(future King Christian X)
2 Duchess Alexandrine of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
3 GD Alexandre Mikhailovitch
4 GD Frederik IV of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
5 Duke Adolphe Frederik Francis of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
6 GD Serge M
7 Duke Henry of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
8 GD Michel Nicolaeivitch
9 Princess Olga of Cumberland
10 Duchess Elizabeth of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin, born princess of Saxe-Weimar
11 Ernst August, Duke of Cumberland
12 GD Xenia Alexandrovna
13 Duke Paul frederik of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
14 Duchess Marie of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin, born princess of Windisch-Graetz
15 Prince Harald of Denmark
16 Duke John Albert of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
17 Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark (future King Frederik VIII)
18 Princess Thyra of Denmark
19 Princess Alexandra of Cumberland
20 Princess Marie Louise of Cumberland
21......
22 Duchess Thyra of Cumberland, born princess of Denmark
23 Dowager GD Anastasia of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin, born GD Anastasia Mikhailovna of Russia
24 Princess Louise of Denmark, born princess of Sweden and Norway
25 GD Maria Pavlovna of Russia, born duchess Marie of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
26 Crown princess Marie of Romania, born princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
27 Dowager GD Marie of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin, born princess of Schwarzbourg-Rudolstadt
28 Princess Tekla of Schwarzbourg-Rudolstadt
29 GD Andrew Wladmirovitch
30 GD Helena Wladmirovna
31 Prince Christian of Cumberland
32 Duchess Cécile of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin
33 GD Michel Mikhailovitch
34 Prince ernst August of Cumberalnd
35 GD Boris Wladmirovitch
36 Crown Prince Ferdinand of Romania(future King Ferdinand I of Romania)
Alberto
Very interesting that they were married in Cannes, instead of in Denmark, as he was heir to the throne. Any idea why?
Sarah
By tradition, a (royal) wedding is hosted by the bride's parents - and Alexandrine's mother lived in Cannes.
See the thread "Villa Wenden" on the Scandinavian MB for more information.
Stig
Thanks Alberto for this guestlist. After the information I asked about Villa Wenden, in the SMB, this is exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks again!
Paula
Thanks Alberto - I only have a few additions:
Sophie von Merenberg, Countess Torby (wife of Alexandrine's uncle)
Prince Georg Wilhelm of Hannover (Christian's first cousin)
Baron Axel Blixen-Finecke (first cousin of Christian's father)
Two of my books also mention Queen Emma of the Netherlands, but I think they are wrong.
But Alberto, didn't you once tell me that also the two sisters Maria Pia and Maria Immaculata of Two Sicilies attended the wedding?
Stig
Hello Stig
: Sophie von Merenberg, Countess Torby (wife
: of Alexandrine's uncle)
Maybe she was the number 20 who was not identified(who knows I write to Jacques Ferrand to tell him this?)
: Prince Georg Wilhelm of Hannover (Christian's
: first cousin)
: Baron Axel Blixen-Finecke (first cousin of
: Christian's father)
: But Alberto, didn't you once tell me that
: also the two sisters Maria Pia and Maria
: Immaculata of Two Sicilies attended the
: wedding?
well, it is a group picture, the same way Prince Georg Wilhelm of Hannover (Cumberland) and Baron Axel were not present at this group picture the princesses of Two Siciles don't appear at the picture either
Alberto
By the way, Queen Alexandrine once told her oldest granddaughter that she initially intended to (or was supposed to?) marry somebody else than Christian, but her father thought she was too young. I wonder who that could be...
Stig
I know for sure her mother, GD Anastasia, was supposed to marry King Alfonso XII of Spain but there was a problem of religion
Alberto
Speaking of might-have-been marriages, when most of the royal guests lunched together a few days before the wedding in Cannes, the most notable absentees were the groom's parents (Frederik & Lovisa of Denmark). Instead they visited Emma & Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, and this gave new life to existing rumours of an engagement between Wilhelmina and Prince Harald of Denmark.
Stig
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 6:42 PM from IP address 200.188.180.234
Alice of Athlone(Memoirs & bio by Aronson), plans on Lux book by Marlene
by Alberto
I wondered what the name of the memoires of Alice of Athlone are called and how/if I can get it. And are there any other books about her?
Helena
Hi Helena
her memoirs are called "For My Grandchildren: Some Reminiscences of Her Royal Highness Princess Alice" and you willfind many copies at a low price at Add All or ABE. Very entertaining and interesting book.
Theo Aronson wrote a biography on her: "Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone", I didn't read it though, but Theo Aronson is a good author
Alberto
Hi Helena!
Last year I bought the book "For my grandchildren" in a second-handbookshop (de Slegte, Arnhem!).
Although I had high expectations of it.. this book seems more or less a volume consacrated to the ONE & ONLY V.I.P.;
Alice..royal lady with lots of royal connections..
But..since I gathered that you're from the Netherlands (just like me), well; if you'd like to borrow it from me...just say so and include your @-mail address.
We can make some arrangements then!
I do exchange many royal books with my usual friends already..and I'd like to let you read for yourself (and judge for yourself too!)
And (Alberto) I will try and see if I can obtain the Theo Aronson book! He writes good books about royalty and does a lot of research as well!
Marianne
Thank you very much for your offer Marianne, but the only books I should be looking in right now are books about the law (I will have preliminairy exams very soon). But maybe in a few weeks I will keep you to your offer.
Helena
The Theo Aronson book is wonderful - one of his best ...
For My Grandchildren is an excellent memoir - nearly as good as Princess Marie Louise's.
There is also a bio of Lord Athlone by ME Sara
Marlene
"There is also a bio of Lord Athlone by ME"
Marlene
do you mean you wrote a bio on Lord Athlone?? I am most curious!
Thank you
Alberto
no -- re-read the post ... i said there is a bio of Lord Athlone by ME Sara .. who also wrote a bio of Pss Beatrice.
Marlene
By the way, I read this bio on princess Beatrice by this ME Sara...quite disapointing bio! (I think it was this one, as there are 2 biographies)And how come Queen Ena suceeded to go to England from Switzerland in 44 for her mother's burial? Wasn't it a bit too risky?
Alberto
it was written not long after her death .. it's more a profile than a detailed bio.
Marlene
Marlene
what "ME" stand for? I see now this reference: "The Life and Times of H.R.H. Princess Beatrice, by M.E. Sara (1945)"
MBE is Menber of the British Empire, MP is menber of the parliament, and what about ME?
Alberto
dunno mary ellen mark edward michael edwin
Marlene
: For My Grandchildren is an excellent memoir -
: nearly as good as Princess Marie Louise's.
What is so good about it? (Marianne seems to disagree with you, that is why I am asking) Does she tell a lot about her royal cousins, and does she really say nasty things about the "mother of the fatherland", Queen Wilhelmina?
: There is also a bio of Lord Athlone by ME
: Sara
Was Lord Athlone intteresting enough for a bio? According to Prof. C. Fasseur, who wrote two excellent books about queen Wilhelmina, he was rather a dull person, and not so clever.
I am afraid that Sara does not exist anymore, because she is a he who is called Ralph.
Helena
Helena,
I just consider an excellent memoir
"a good account of somebody's life"
(seen in the context of 'one's' family or relation or ~ in the case of a Political figure or so ~in view of the politics of those years/that certain country ...)
Well..after having read many biographies (both royal and non-royal) these last years I found the one that Alice, Countess of Athlone wrote rather disappointing.
I had high expectations of the way she would "lead us back" into history and let us enjoy the way she saw the revival of Monarchy (from the 'inside')..
And ...out comes a lady who just thinks it's natural that everybody thinks HIGH of her just because of the family she's been born into..
She looks (among others) very much DOWN on her Dutch Royal relatives...which I find utterly amazing..seen the very positive way (f.e.) Princess Juliana described her (and alway got-out-of-her-way-to-thank her for the welcome she; (Juliana & daughters) got in Canada..)..!!
May be Marlene just looks at the historical point of view..and likes the way Alice describes anyone she met during her lifetime..
O.K...than it is just a summory of Very Interesting Persons...met during a lifetime..
But the PERSON Alice stays behind curtains..
And SHE might have had an interesting tale to tell!!JUST because of history!
She owned it to her British father and her German mother too!!
Oh well....
Marianne
marianne,
Alice was very close to her dutch relations -and talked about visiting Juliana in an interview in the 70s, I think. But remember, she was a Victorian lady, a true princess. She did a great deal of charity work - but definitely lived a very different life of service. She was brought up to see things in a certain light - and she responded in that manner. For all her traveling to Africa and elsewhere, she was very much a product of her times. She was not going to spill the beans on anyone - she was loyal to her family. her memoirs were originally written for her family ... for more insight, see Theo's book on her.
Marlene
Yes Marlene; thanks!
I will do so (read Theo's book that is)!
I always like to hear two sides of a story!
Marianne
of course you are most welcome to visit my library ... but because I nearly lost a valuable book, I never lend any of my royal books! I have a comfy couch, though
Marlene
Great!!
May be I can combine that trip with the "baptism" of your New Royal Book?
As for lending books; a real treasure ~ a Royal Danish one made it to-and-fro Canada/The Netherlands without as much as a wrinkle....! and I frequently exchange books with my dear friend Paula in Portugal too!
Never ever a complaint!
But I DO understand your reluctance Marlene!
Should you be in Europe (for the 'launch' of a Luxembourg book?? may be??) I'll gladly clear MY comfy couch !!!!
Marianne
Thanks Marianne ... got to get started on the update (rather than the Luxembourg book which I had hoped to complete this summer - but Rosvall Royal Books had other ideas
Marlene
Helena
I'm not Marlene but princess Alice said nothing agaisnt Queen Willelmina!
And I love all memoirs by Royalty...but anyway her book is so interesting for me, as I can't speak German as Marianne does, and her description of Germany before the I War is a rare opportunity for me to have a glimpse at it.
And her dealings with Empress Zita in Canada during the II War too.
But in fact, princess Marie Louise's memoirs are more interesting
Alberto
Hello Marianne
what left me most surprised in her memoirs is princess Alice was a not-repented anti-semitic. As I told Jwgo so many people were anti-semitic before II War but they changed their minds(or so they said) after the War, but not princess Alice...she keeps criticizing the Jewish officer in Coburg after the War.
Alberto
Was she an anti-semitic to??? I know her brother was, but that Alice was one to is new to me.
PS. Marlene once posted a link, containing information about Nazi-royals, but I have lost it, does anybody know the link???
Helena
Alice has many astounding views on matters...and she would have done quite well in Germany in many ways..if I may say so..!
She took a very harsh view to matters that everybody else would view from BOTH sides first before 'condemning'!!
Marianne
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 6:23 PM from IP address 200.188.180.234
As I am very interested in the decendents of emperor Nicholas I of Russia, I wondered if there are any books about the minor romanovs, like the vladimirovitch, michailovitch etc.
Helena
If you read German, I strongly recommend "Am Hof des letzten Zaren 1896-1919" - the memoirs of Prince Roman Romanoff, great-grandson of Nicholas I. This fat book was originally published in Danish ("Det var et rigt hus, et lykkeligt hus") and contains a lot of info on the Nikolaievitches and other Romanovs.
Is that the same branch Nichailoviches as Alberto mentioned in his message about the Grand Duke who stole his mothers jewels??
Helena
No, the light-fingered Nicholas Constantinovitch in Alberto's message was a son of Grand Duke Constantine, himself a son of Tsar Nicholas I.
Roman Romanoff was a grandson of Constantine's brother Grand Duke Nicholas (1831-1891) - and the latter's family is called the Nicholaievitch branch.
Stig
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 5:04 AM from IP address 200.188.181.208
As I am very interested in the decendents of emperor Nicholas I of Russia, I wondered if there are any books about the minor romanovs, like the vladimirovitch, michailovitch etc.
Helena
Helena
Jacques Ferrand specialized himself in writting books about ALL branches of the Romanovs, the "minor" ones. But his books are written in French, though. His books are MASSIVE and with many, many and many pictures(and unique pictures, as Jacques Ferrand has been a friend of many Romanovs for decades). Usually his books were printed with only 500 copies, so don't wait too long to buy them....(I wish I could buy all of them...). You can order his books directly from Jacques Ferrand, to visit his web page in English see link below.
Prince Michel de Grèce (Michael of Greece) wrote a novel/biography in French last year on Grand-Duke Nicolas (1850-1918) who was exiled from Court for stealing jewerly from his mother(yes! a Grand-Duke stealer!). Prince Michel found out an unknown descendency of Grand-Duke Nicolas still living n Russia
Alberto
Link: Jacques Ferrand
I fear that I have to learn french first, before I can read those books, what a pitty!!
Helena
but in the mean time you can appreciate the pictures..
Alberto
I liked very much "La nuit Blanche de St. Petersburg", by prince Michel of Greece. maybe this book is also in english.
The book is about grand duke Nicholas Constantinovich, queen Olga of Greece´s brother.
he was the son of Constantin Nichokaievich
Claudia
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 5:07 AM from IP address 200.188.181.208
As I am very interested in the decendents of emperor Nicholas I of Russia, I wondered if there are any books about the minor romanovs, like the vladimirovitch, michailovitch etc.
Helena
--Ferrand's books are wonderful. I have a book on Grand Duke Nicholas' American mistress - who may also have been involved with the jewels. Grand Duke Kirill wrote his memoirs. Grand Dukes and Diamonds is about Grand Duke Michael and Sophie Merenberg but more about the Werhners (Lady Zia and her husband's family. There is at least one bio on Nicholas I's consort, Alexandra, in English
Marlene
I am very interested on the memoires of Grand Duke Kirill, when did he write those, and are they good, or is he just defending why he proclaimed himself head of the imperial house while the dowager-empress was still living?
Does it contain a lot of information about his mother, Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna, and do you know if he or his mother had any contact with the dutch court? GD Marie Pavlovna was a half-sister of Prince Hendrik...
Helena
it is an interesting book, but I don´t like it very much, he talks about all her family but not too much about his mother.
There are also the books written by gran duke Alexander Mijhailovich,Dagmar´s son in law.
" Once a grand duke " and "Always a grand duke", there are two books about Olga Nicholaievna, sister of Nicholas II, both are interesting.
"Michael and Natasha", about Nicholas II´s brother Mijhael Alexandrovich.
I think thatyou will like very much "Romanov Autumm", it contains essays about many Romanovs, start with that book. It is easy to read.
Claudia
I would certainly like to read that book, but do you know where I can buy it. I could find nothing about it on the internmet, but maybe I did not look well enough.
Helena
Dear Helena
you will find a copy of this book on the link below, with 20% of discount and SAFE on-line web page for you giving credit card number.
Certainly you will find the same book in many other British on-line bookshops, but this one is giving this nice discount
Alberto
Link: Romanov Autumn
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 5:12 AM from IP address 200.188.181.208
HI Claudia
what book is this "Romanov Autumn"? Is the one written by a journalist of Royalty digest? Could you possibly tell us more, please?
Alberto
Several of the articles appeared in Royalty Digest and others were written directly for the book - some are dry while others are interesting.
Charlotte Zeepvat is the author
Marlene
Alberto:
you know that I read almost every book about the Romanovs and this one I really enjoyed it, it is special for Helena that start reading about this great family.if you are a subscriber to "Royalty Digest", you don´t need to buy it because all this essays are found in it.They are interesting because each one talks about a different member of the family.
Claudia
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 5:14 AM from IP address 200.188.181.208
I am very interested on the memoires of Grand Duke Kirill, when did he write those, and are they good, or is he just defending why he proclaimed himself head of the imperial house while the dowager-empress was still living?
Does it contain a lot of information about his mother, Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna, and do you know if he or his mother had any contact with the dutch court? GD Marie Pavlovna was a half-sister of Prince Hendrik...
Helena
I don't think Kirill had a ghost writer ... and there was no need to defend himself in becoming the head of the imperial family ... the Fundamental laws make that clear. Kirill was next in the line of succession after Grand Duke Michael ... and once Michael was dead, Kirill became second in line - and a month later, he succeeded as tsar ...
The book is about his family and his life = rather personalized. Took me years to find the book.
Marlene
Helena
prince Hendrik went to GD Maria Pavlovna's burial in France(read the entertaining "Dancing in St Petersbourg" by the famous ballet dancer who had been a mistress of the last Czar, Mathilde Kreszinski, wife of GD Andrew)
I can post here the message of congratulations Queen Willelmina sent to GD Wladmir when he got married to princess Leonida in 1948. She was quite affectionate to him
Alberto
Really? I always thought that there was (almost) no contact between the Ornage-Nassau's and the Romanovs after King Willem III died, but it seems that I am wrong.
If it would not be to much trouble for you, could you please sent the message of Queen Wilhelmina? Thank you.
Helena
Hello,
Three more titles :
"The Flight of the Romanovs" by John Curtis Perry and Constantine V. Pleshakov (available on Amazon)
"Natalie Paley, une princesse déchirée" (in French) by Jean-Noël Liaut (out of print)
"Souvenirs de Russie 1916-1919" (in French) by Princess Paley (available on www.alapage.com)
About the Ferrand's books, the language must NOT prevent you to buy them as they are wonderful and the legends under the photographs are not difficult to understand...
Well, about Prince Michel de Grèce and his last book, he is not the first to have discovered that Grand Duke Nicholas Konstantinovitch had a descendance in Russia. Jacques Ferrand did it about ten years ago (and maybe someone before him) ! In "The flight of the Romanovs" I saw for the first time two photographs on Princess Iskander.
Thierry
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 5:18 AM from IP address 200.188.181.208
Hello
a few weeks ago Steven said here he didn't know about madness in the Brazilian Imperial Family and I posted here some extracts from books on prince dom Pedro Augusto de Saxe-Coburgo-Bragança, grand son of Emperor dom Pedro II. This prince had a strong possibilty of becoming the following Emperor after princess Isabel gave liberty to slaves in 1888, despite the fact he was only 5th in the line of succession. I said here dom Pedro Augusto showed the first obvious signs of madness in the travel of exile from Rio to Lisbon.
Now, I found the following letters by Princess Clementine d'Orleans(paternal grand-mother of dom Pedro Augusto) to Queen Victoria on the book "Clementine d'Orleans, Princess Augustus of Saxe Coburg, King-Maker Inveterate" by Pashanko Dimitroff.
"25th November 1892
My dear Victoria
....Unfortunately, I have to give you the sad news about my grandson Pedro. As you know he had a horrible attack of violent dementia in Vienna and was taken to the mental hospital in Dubling.
I wrote to you that after two weeks there was an improvement, Pedro was quiet, agreed to take some food(he has the idea fixed in his mind that someone is trying to poison him, an idea he has had even before his attack of madness, just as Charlotte) and to get dressed. But that improvement did not last, another violent attack recurred. He has to be nourished by force and two guards never leave him alone, in order to prevent him from taking his life or from setting his room on fire. All this is so sad. I do not believe that he can be cured, though the doctor in Dubling and Braun havenot lost hope...."
And princess Clementine goes on and on talking about her grand-son's illness in htis letter and other letters to Queen Victoria. Interesting she mentionned Empress Charlotte. Much is said about the Wittelsbachs, but it seems the Saxe-Coburgs had a unfortunate inclination to madness(2 other grand-children of poor princess Clementine would get mad, the children of her daughter with a Wittelsbach prince, younger brother of Sissi, Wittelsbach genes, or Saxe-Coburg, or both???)
Alberto
Hello Alberto!
: And princess Clementine goes on and on
: talking about her grand-son's illness in
: htis letter and other letters to Queen
: Victoria. Interesting she mentionned
: Empress Charlotte.
Yes,Charlotte´s madness was well known ....
Much is said about the
: Wittelsbachs, but it seems the
: Saxe-Coburgs had a unfortunate inclination
: to madness(2 other grand-children of poor
: princess Clementine would get mad, the
: children of her daughter with a
: Wittelsbach prince, younger brother of
: Sissi"
Alberto, do you mean that princes Siegfreid, Christopher or Luitpold (sons of Clementine´s daughter, Amelie) were mad, as well??
Can you give me more details about this, because I never heard this!?
Thanks.
Paula
Hello Paula
: Yes,Charlotte´s madness was well known ....
But Princess Clementine had fist hand insight as she was very close to the Belgian Royal Family.
: Alberto, do you mean that princes Siegfreid,
: Christopher or Luitpold (sons of
: Clementine´s daughter, Amelie) were mad,
: as well??
: Can you give me more details about this,
: because I never heard this!?
Now I am recollecting things.....it seems both Prince Maximiien, the younger brother of Sissi(he was famous for he was considered the most handsome prince of his time, but too bad for him he was lunatic), and his wife Princess Amélie of Saxe-Coburg were mentally pertubed!!!!!!!!
And concerning their sons, it seems prince Siegfried and Duke Lepold in Bavaria(the last one of his line) were totally mad. Infanta Maria José of Portugal, Duchess in Bavaria, took care of them.
I cannot remenber though the sources apart one unreliable source: the memoirs of Countess Lasrich, but I really read somewhere else this sad story
Alberto
: Now I am recollecting things.....it seems
: both Prince Maximiien, the younger brother
: of Sissi(he was famous for he was
: considered the most handsome prince of his
: time, but too bad for him he was lunatic),
: and his wife Princess Amélie of
: Saxe-Coburg were mentally pertubed!!!!!!!!
Despite that,they had a very happy marriage ...I didn´t know about Princess Amélie´s madness !!!
: Siegfried and Duke Lepold in Bavaria(the
: last one of his line) were totally mad.
: Infanta Maria José of Portugal, Duchess in
: Bavaria, took care of them.
: I cannot remenber though the sources apart
: one unreliable source: the memoirs of
: Countess Lasrich, but I really read
: somewhere else this sad story
: Alberto
:
Thanks, Alberto, it is indeed a very sad story ... maybe,that explains why the three brothers never married.
Paula
Hello Paula
: Despite that,they had a very happy marriage
What do you know about their marriage?
: Thanks, Alberto, it is indeed a very sad
: story ... maybe,that explains why the
: three brothers never married.
But prince Christoph got married! As for the sources I cannot remenber right now, but I will try and find out. Anyway, even if Countess Lasrich made up things often(like saying Sissi had an illegitmate daughter) she would not make up this story in the 1930s as both Siegfried and Leopold were alive, and Infanta Maria José too.
9a) Maximilian Emanuel (Munich 7 Dec 1849-Feldafing 12 Jun 1893); m.Ebenthal 20 Sep 1875 Amalie Pss of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Coburg 23 Oct 1848-Schloß Biederstein 6 May 1894)
1b) Siegfried August Maximilian Maria (Bamberg 10 Jul 1876-Munich 12 Mar 1952)
2b) Christoph Joseph Clemens Maria (Schloß Biederstein 22 Apr 1879-Munich 10 Jul 1963); m.Munich 14 May 1924 Anna Sibig (Ascholtzhausen 18 Jul 1874-Munich 1 Jan 1958)
3b) LUITPOLD Emanuel Ludwig Maria (Schloß Biederstein 30 Jun 1890-Kreuth 16 Jan 1973)
Hello Alberto
What do you know about their marriage?
Not much.In the early 1870´s, Maximilien fell in love to Amélie of Saxe Coburg. Prince Leopold of Bavaria intended to marry her ( I even think they were engaged, but I´m not certain), but Leopold later married Archduchess Gisele, who was the eldest daughter of the Emperor. Then Maximilien proposed to Amélie and was accepted and they had a happy marriage. Alberto, don´t you agree they were happy? Did you read the contrary? Of all Bavarian siblings,I believe only Helene, Karl Theodor and Maximilian had a truly happy marriage. I never read or heard anything about the madness of Princes Siegfried and Luitpold, nor of Princess Amélie´s mental illness... I knew that Maximilien suffered periodically from melancholia, just like her sisters, but I didn´t know that he was a lunatic!
But prince Christoph got married!
Yes, Alberto, you are right.
As for the sources I cannot remenber right now, but I will try and find out. Anyway, even if
Countess Lasrich made up things often...
She isn´t a very reliable source, but on the other hand, I believe she didn´t invent everything she wrote.
Paula
: Not much.In the early 1870´s, Maximilien fell
: in love to Amélie of Saxe Coburg. Prince
: Leopold of Bavaria intended to marry her
Interesting, thank you!
: Then Maximilien
: proposed to Amélie and was accepted
BUT....are you aware Maximilien delayed the official annuncement for ages???? Empress Elizabeth(Sissi) received the umpleasant (so Sissi said) task of talking to her brother and mother. I read it on a biography on Sissi.
: She isn´t a very reliable source, but on the
: other hand, I believe she didn´t invent
: everything she wrote.
I agree with you
Alberto
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 4:24 AM from IP address 200.188.182.160
Now I've just finished reading this book about Princess Charlotte of Belgium by a Belgian writer (Mia Kerckvoorde) and I got a very pathetic picture of it all.
And I mean; it all; including Court life in Belgium, her family, her married life..her own life..
A book like this one just makes me curious for OTHER books about the same royal person!
So..is there any-one on this Board who can advice me about:
* Theo Aronson's; The Coburgs of Belgium
* C. Bronne; Leopold I et son temps
* E. Domenech; Histoire de Mexique ~Correspondences inédites des presidents, ministres et généraux de Juarez, de l'Empereur Maximilian et L'Impératrice Charlotte ~
* Comte Fleury; Memoirs of the Empress Eugenie
* Princesse Louis de Belgique; Autour det thrones que j'ai vus tomber....
* Countess H. de Reinach- Foussemagne; Charlotte de Belgique, Impératrice de Mexique
and others....??!!
Thanks a lot!
Marianne
Hi Marianne!
: A book like this one just makes me curious
: for OTHER books about the same royal
: person!
"Maximilian and Charlotte of Mexico"-Count Egon Corti ( a bit expensive)
"The Crown of Mexico-Maximilian and his Empress Carlota"-Joan Haslip
"L´Impératrice des adieux"- Prince Michael of Greece
Enjoy the reading!
LOL,
Paula
Hi Marianne
"* Princesse Louis de Belgique; Autour det thrones que j'ai vus tomber...."
scaring book!!!! Terribly sad and depressing....but....I love memoirs so I loved this book....I won't tell you details as you will be surprised by her story, I highly recommend this book!
Concerning Charlotte of Mexico Paula is really an expert ont he subject, but I like André Castelot's biography on her.
As for Mia Kerckvoorde she is not the best author....I revised here her biography on Queen Marie-Henriette and Mia Kerckvoorde didn't even mention Marie-Henriette composed an opera....and Mia Kerckvoorde pratically just made a resume of 5 or 6 books, not very meritorious in my opinion
Alberto
Posted on Jun 24, 2001, 4:26 AM from IP address 200.188.182.160
But Russian things which were given to her. Think of the Russian treasures Anna Anderson left when she died, all of which were given to her. As I recall, the problem in the Phenix book was, as usual, the author's imprecise narrative style, which left lots of loose ends dangling. So a lorry may well have been needed. And for a long life of collecting, a lorry's worth isn't all that much, really.