I'm sure that many of you have been reading the
thread on the Cobraforum about the unfortunate person
who is unable to afford the RFGT40. The real unfortunate thing is that all efforts by owners of and the manufacterer of this car has tried many times to
explain the price structure to no avail. Instead of
excepting these endorsments and explainations from the owner and builders they prefer to continue the flogging. Robert Logan Is one of the most dedicated
car enthusiasts and builders I know. He builds his products with enormous pride. When he introduced his
car to the states he was given poor advice on price
structure. The car was recieved well but the pricing
was not totally explained. This was in my judgement the error of the U.S. representitve for RFGT40's. No effort
was made to have printed brochures on the kits pricing
structure. After all this was discovered, Robert Logan
has publiclly appologised and tried several times to
explain the misunderstanding. Robert Logan has a new
representitve. His name is Gordon Levy of Levy Racing Inc. Gordon is one of the most respected kit and race car builders in this industry. He , as I have, found roaring forties to be a fair and honest company to deal with. All this is because Robert Logan has done everything possible to make his car the best he can and
at a better than fair price. The new web site should be along soon and I'm sure it will be a little more helpful to future customers. The old site was directed to the Austrailian market.
Regardless of all the negative retoricles and calling for a boycott on RF I belive that this company will succeed. The product is superb. and the service is top notch. Next year there will be possibly 4 cars at the shows. This will certainly demonstrate the quality of the car and company.
I Felt that it was better to post here on this subject than on the other forum. It seem futile to do so over there. To me it appeared there was little regard for the truth. Here is where most GT40 enthusiast will come eventually. I am sure this site will grow as more people start building their GT40's.
I want to wish Robert Logan and Gordon Levy much success in their endevors. You won't find two people with more integrity and honesty in this business.

Your Friend and RFGT40 owner,
Hershal Byrd

Indeed, it seems that over on the Cobra Forum the discussion has degenerated to the point where none of the participants seems to care about the truth.

Lest anyone be confused over what is being discussed, here is the link:

http://www.cobraforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=017297

Repeatedly, people have pointed out the proper pricing for the RF GT40 car and that the RF website was outdated. However, it is becoming apparent that noone cares about the pricing of the car - they just want to argue over the following:

1) Why can't a complete GT40 be sold for $20,000 US? How come it isn't as inexpensive as a Cobra?

2) How come the Australian GT40 costs less than the US GT40?

These are easy questions to answer and they've been answered many times.

1) Because it is a lot more complex.

2) Because it is an entirely different kit.

Everyone complained when RF listed a rolling chassis on their website for a relatively low price in US dollars. They then found out the US kit cost more money. The confusing part is that in the US a rolling chassis means a kit with everything included.

Down Under this is not the case. It means a chassis, some glass, a few other pieces and that is it. It is by no means a complete kit.

The US kit is totally different - it included everything to build the car minus engine and transmission.

Therefore, in reference to 2) above, the argumentive souls posting on CobraForum are not comparing apples to apples.

However, I've tried to point this out as have others to no avail.

So, if you want the price of the kit call Gordon Levy at Levy Racing, its fair, great quality and is very nice. Come by and look at mine, I'd be happy to show it to you.

Still confused? Do what I did - pick up the phone and call Robert Logan of Roaring Forties, a stand up nice guy, and ask him explain it to you. You won't find a nicer fellow in the business - he's along the lines of of the folks at Unique Motorcars, ERA, and Midstates.

Am I jumping to the defense of RF? No, I'm just trying to help you (the reader) muddle through a large mess. I was looking for a GT40 about 8 months ago and if I saw all of this online it'd confuse me too.

If I had a bad experience with RF I'd post it. But I haven't and can highly recommend doing business with them.

Good luck on your search for a GT40 and email me if I can be of any assistance.

Ron

Folks,

I posted the following as entry number 98 to the thread on Cobra_Forum initiated by Healerhand. Pretty much defines my feelings and suggests a market niche not yet filled:


<> posted 07-24-2001 05:42 PM [Profile for mike_starling] [Author's Homepage] [Email mike_starling] [Send New Private Message] [Edit/Delete Post] [Reply With Quote] Guys,

I think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. As I pointed out to Healerhand on the GT40 Forum, he had built an expectation on a faulty premise ... what he assumed to be the definition of "rolling chassis."

GT40's are far more expensive to build than are roadsters. They are more complex and the parts are not as widely available. This much of the discussion speaks for itself.

It should be noted that the market positioning choice that has been made RF is to maintain the exclusivity of the marque rather than bring to the market something that is badly needed ... an affordable GT40 for those who have graduated from the Cobra and eventually from the Daytona Coupe. I personally believe this to be an unfortunate business decision that will limit their market and their realized profit. Selling 10 to 20 kits into the US at high margins won't create the monies that would be available from the sale of 200 or more kits into the US market.

Sad as that may be for folks like Healerhand, it is the choice that seems to have been made by RF management. I dearly wish some qualified, reputable vendor with a quality product would step up to that vision ... the community and the vendor would be better for it.

--------------------

mike starling
FFR 1667
347 Probe Industries Stroker
Tremec w 3.55
Sabre GT40 6210
FMS 351W w G50/50 transaxle
in build






mike starling
FFR 1667
Sabre GT40 6210

Mike,
Unfortunately the thread on the other forum has become a keyboard lynching. They are not interested in the truth or the facts. This is why I refused to post any further.
I do disagree with your comment on the market choice made by RF. I have discussed this with Robert and he made no such market selection to the higher end market. It was not nor has it ever been his intention to introduce an FFR type kit to America. He has a small company that caters to the GT40 enthusiast in Australia. He was approached by Americans to sell them a kit. One potential buyer also wanted the exclusive rights to sell them here. He received that privilege
and unfortunately it did not work out. This hurt Roberts business but he tried to right the misunderstanding and still he is the focus of the keyboard lunch mob on the other forum.
All of us that purchased his car knew full well what the prices were.All of us have been treated as a customer should be.
David Phan has a web site address under his signature. This site is the clinic where he works. On that site are price comparisons to other clinics for services rendered. If I was an unscrupulous type I could drag this into the public arena and ask why their prices are so much cheaper than all the other clinics. Do you receive the same kind of service? Did somebody survey these other clinics to see if they offered the same service at the prices stated on his site.
At this point David would be understandably upset. It would be an undeserved attack on his livelyhood. He would attempt to rectify the problem but to no avail. None of the posters would be interested in the truth. They would rather see a good clinic's reputation destroyed by a few whiners.
The above comments were used in example and are not factual in reference to Dr. Phan's clinic.
That is the danger of these forums. A person with an axe to grind can litterally say what he wants with little ragard to the facts. Some people see this and they could percieve it to be factual. There is three sides to every story. There is your side, my side and the truth.
I hope this opens a few eyes in regards to what you do and say on these forums as it can hurt others.

Your Friend,
Hershal Byrd

FYI - I have had numerous discussions with Robert
Logan over the past few years. Here's a reponse
he sent to me in Oct 2000:
-----------------------------------------------------
Ian,

Thank you for your continued interest in our cars.
The price list is finished but is for Australia ( in
Aus $ ).

To date we have sold three cars to the US, a turn
key to our agent in Arkon OH., and two complete delux
kits a-la- Tornado butwithout engines and gearboxes. I
have matched the prices of Tornado but our
specification is much higher in allmost all areas. We
use 13" front brakes and 111/2" rear brakes as
standard. We use aluminium radiators for engine cooling
which use Griffin cores from the US. We have Limited
Slip Differentials as an option, sequential injection
with 8 throttles to resemble the 48IDA set up on the
original. All options except the rear sway bar are
available with us and as indicated above others also.

I was in the US only a few weeks ago and I visited
a potential customer ( he has already sourced his
gearbox ) who lives in Newman Cal.

Please look at the Tornado site and use it as a
reference and we will be happy to answer any questions.
I have not yet started a full price list in US $ but I
will be trying to do that soon. Meanwhile I will have
my first kit into Dallas before Christmas , my second
in February and my first turn key on show at Nottsburry
Farm.

I hope this helps but please contact me again if I
can be of any more help.

Best wishes, Robert Logan
------------------------------------------------------
So, a little research showed me that a) the pricing
on the site was not US customer pricing, b) he was
targeting a range similar to Tornado (Tornado is $40K
for a complete kit including engine and transaxle, but
the RF has better base features i.e. leather, 13" front
brakes, better frame IMHO, better radiator, etc.) and
c) reading the rolling chassis package description
showed me that a lot more was needed at $16500.

I've been researching GT40 replicas since '98, and I
figured if I went with RF or GTD, I'd still edge close
to $60K. ERA would approach $95K. I was sent a letter
from CAV for turnkey minus at $56K w/o AC -- a $2500
option. Ray Mallock Limited in England wanted to know
if I was interested in the demo they still had, but
since it originally went for $150K in the mid 90's,
it was way out of my league. As for the others -
Tornado, Lone Star, ASP, T3, DC&O, GT40 Replication,
although the pricing is nicer, the quality and accuracy
did not look/feel right to me (I have heard that
Tornados were prone to chassis failure, though I'm
sure Andy has fixed that).

And yes, I agree, the GT40 is very different from
the SC or Daytona for that matter.

My 2 cents.

Ian

DAMN!!! A guy could grow old and the prozac wear off waiting for this to load.

Hersh, your terminology of keyboard lynching is correct here. The thread on cobraforum is pathetic.

Since I'm one of the new kids on the block here, I would like to add my two cents. Like Jimmy Carter, you could have been great if you had good advisors. I think that is what happened to Robert Logan. I was talking with him about his cars while this was going on. No harm, no foul, in any way from his stand point with the circumstances that were happening..just another guy who wanted to research his business and marketing for this country that he didn't know.

I build cars for customers and Robert Lawrence had bought one and I wanted to know what, who, why and when. Bob and I are great competitors.

Healerhand posted that his dream was gone and I sent him an email because of the connections that I have in the industry. I just happened to have a high quality kit available to me other than the one that I am building.

I received an email from him several days later asking if I had a webb site that he could go to. He never asked anything about me or the kit manufacturer.

What we have here, is an "online junkie" that does nothing but live on the internet.

Hersh and Robert have seen my cars. All it would have taken for this man to answer some questions would have been a telephone call. He chose to live in cyber world. His dream isn't dead, but his logic is.

Thank God, I didn't answer his email and sell him a kit! The hours of calls and emails would have made me crazier than I already am!

My old Mother always told me,,, "wish in one hand and whiz in the other and see which one gets full first"!

This guys gt40 dream is what I always look for,,,an unfinished project. Maybe I need to tell him where to get some sedatives or even where to get a life.

Thank God and Greyhound, I'm gone!

This site and the coming gt40 craze are great. The few people that post here are the pioneers of an uprising. Stay with it and stay late.

Hersh, thanks to you we are rethinking our solor choices...bills in the mail.

Jay

trying to figure out if my new pick up line "darlin, waanna help me regulate my neew viagra prescription?" will work.