About the forum / Forum Hakkında

Main Page / Ana sayfa

Bibliography / Kaynakça

For questions send mail to yalpacik@hotmail.com


 


  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  

Who are the first Ottomans?

January 29 2006 at 10:50 AM
  (Login pigeti)
Forum Owner

 
These are some of the contributions I have made in another forum (in Turkish)named Cumhuriyet Forumu about the topic of "Kimdir bu Osmanlılar" (Who are these Ottomans):

Bu yazının Türkçesi için bu forumdaki Kimdir Bu Osmanlılar 'a gidiniz.


About the first Ottomans, we do not even know as much as that is found in this post [here reference is to what was written in the original Turkish post in Cumhuriyet forum]. Although it has been argued that Osman, the first ruler of the Ottoman Empire, was not a Muslim in the beginning, there is nothing to show us that these opinions point to a fact. There are arguments even about Osman’s name and our only information about his father is the expression “Osman the son of Ertuğrul” found on a coin from this era.

Yes, we have some histories written about the Ottomans, but since the oldest of these do not go any further than the beginning of 1400’s or the 1390’s, we cannot tell how reliable the information contained in them about the very beginning of the Ottomans is. It is possible that these historians may have conveyed their own biased perspective or produced histories designed to help the Ottomans in their identity struggles (political or whatever else). About Osman not being religious or nor believing in religion, since it is stated in the work that makes this claim that the one who introduces Osman to İslam is Ede Bali and his dervish lodge, one could see this as the product of a discourse that tries somehow to secure prestige for this dervish lodge or Islam in general. In other words, it is very difficult to know “the truth” about the first Ottomans by reading these first histories. We could use them to make intellectual speculations, but it is very difficult at this point to make definite statements about this particular subject. It is highly likely that we will never be able to do so anyway, and the first Ottomans will stay as a group described in many ways.


    
This message has been edited by pigeti on Jan 29, 2006 11:02 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Johna
(no login)

...........

January 31 2006, 12:24 AM 

I guess so.

But I thought these Ottomans were Ghazis.Warriors of Islam.

I thought the Turks were bearing the sword of Islam as they reached Persia and went abroad.

 
 Respond to this message   
timuçin
(no login)

Plurality of the First Ottomans

February 14 2006, 7:43 PM 


You are right! It was thought for a long time that they were warriors of Islam. However, this thesis, which is Wittek's, have been under heavy criticism for a while. Both Cemal Kafadar and Heath Lowry wrote very good works on this subject. There is also another work by R.P. Lindner on the same subject.

They were probably swords of Islam for some people, and I am sure Osman made great use of this concept in order to legitimize his exploits, but there is really nothing showing us how devout Muslims these first Ottomans were or how much they cared about the spread of Islam. It makes more sense to see some of them as warrior of Islam, while leaving room for other type of Ottomans.

 
 Respond to this message   
Current Topic - Who are the first Ottomans?
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Find more forums on HistoryCreate your own forum at Network54
 Copyright © 1999-2009 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement