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-The Sagebrush Saloon (http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//ikonboard.cgi )
--BONFIRE! (http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//forums.cgi?forum=21 )
---Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack ( http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//forums.cgi?forum=21&topic=102 )
-- Posted by Henrietta Bowman on 2:09 pm on Nov. 21, 2003
Retired Gen. Tommy Franks has said in a recent interview that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government. So says NewsMax in an article about the interview. The interview itself appears in the December print version of Cigar Aficionado, a men's magazine.
Earth to Gen. Franks...the day the powers that be decide to suspend the Constitution and implement Operations Garden Plot and Cable Splicer on a national basis is the day the Second American Revolution begins! I cannot imagine a general of his rank foolish enough to say something like that in an interview.
If there is ONE major bete noir that unites the entire Freedom Movement and motivates all militia groups, it is the martial law bogeyman. Martial law is like waving the proverbial red flag at a bull -- CHARGE!
For many years now, those in the Freedom Movement that have written on the topics of FEMA, Executive Orders, martial law, Rex-84, Operations Garden Plot and Cable Splicer, civilian inmate labor, detention centers, etc., have been denigrated as conspiracy theorists and right-wing wackos. I am not saying it is not true of some of the folks who post absolute horse hockey without researching the facts before engaging their keyboards. The truth is, these things do exist and I have both read and posted the government documents to confirm it.
The Rex-84 Program was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention centers by FEMA. Rex-84 allowed many military bases to be closed down and to be turned into prisons. Operation Cable Splicer and Garden Plot are the two sub-programs which will be implemented once the Rex-84 program is initiated for its proper purpose. Garden Plot is the program to control the population. Cable Splicer is the program for an orderly takeover of the state and local governments by the military for the federal government. FEMA is the executive arm of the coming police state and thus will head up all operations.
Diana Reynolds wrote: "In 1981, FEMA and DOD began a continuing tradition of biannual joint exercises to test civilian mobilization, civil security emergency and counterterrorism plans using such names as"Proud Saber/Rex-82," "Pre-Nest," and "Rex-84/Night Train."
"The Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan), indicates that FEMA in association with 34 other federal civil departments and agencies conducted a civil readiness exercise during April 5-13, 1984. It was conducted in coordination and simultaneously with a Joint Chiefs exercise, Night Train 84, a worldwide military command post exercise (including Continental U.S. Forces or CONUS) based on multi-emergency scenarios operating both abroad and at home. In the combined exercise, Rex-84 Bravo, FEMA and DOD led the other federal agencies and departments, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service, the Treasury, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Veterans Administration through a gaming exercise to test military assistance in civil defense. The exercise anticipated civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes that would affect continuity of government and/or resource mobilization. To fight subversive activities, there was authorization for the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of martial rule."
The original story of Cable Splicer and Garden Plot broke in the alternative press in 1975 in an article by Ron Ridenhour with Arthur Lublow published in Arizona's New Times. Garden Plot was also the cover story for the Winter 1976 issue of CounterSpy magazine. Dozens of pages of the unedited official documents from Garden Plot and Cable Splicer were reprinted in the magazine. Copies of the official documents were made available to trial teams in several cities litigating against illegal government intelligence abuse. See next two links:
http://www.namebase.org/ppost14.html
Bringing the War Home
Santa Luisa is burning
http://www.osamaskidneys.com/morales.html
The War at Home - U.S. Military Civil Disturbance Planning
Geoff Metcalf wrote: "The U.S. Army director of resource management has confirmed the validity of a memorandum relating to the establishment of a civilian inmate labor program under development by the Department of Army. The document states, "Enclosed for your review and comment is the draft Army regulation on civilian inmate labor utilization" and the procedure to "establish civilian prison camps on installations."
"Civilian internment camps or prison camps, often referred to as concentration camps, have been the subject of much rumor and speculation during the past several years in this country. Various publications, Internet threads and some radio talk programs have focused on the issue.
"However, I found it significant when Rep. Henry Gonzalez, D-TX, clarified the question of the existence of these civilian detention camps. In an interview Hank said, "the truth is yes -- you do have these standby provisions, and the plans are here ... whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism ... evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps." Heck, we did it before (to Americans of Japanese descent), we could do it again."
Regarding martial law, Gary North wrote: "In a July 1983 series in the San Francisco Examiner, two-time Pulitzer Prize-winner Knute Royce reported that a presidential directive had been drafted by a few Carter administration personnel in 1979 to allow the military to take control of the government for 90 days in the event of an emergency. A caveat on page one of the directive said, "Keeping the government functioning after a nuclear war is a secret, costly project that detractors claim jeopardizes U.S. traditions and saves a privileged few." According to Royce there was a heated debate within the Carter administration as to just what constituted an "emergency." . . .
"According to (Alfonso) Chardy, the plan called for 'suspension of the Constitution, turning control of the government over to the Federal Emergency Management Agency, emergency appointment of military commanders to run state and local governments and declaration of martial law.' The proposal appears to have forgotten that Congress, legislatures and the judiciary even existed". . . .
"The head of FEMA until 1985, Giuffrida also once wrote a paper on the Legal Aspects of Managing Disorders. Here is some of what he said: 'No constitution, no statute or ordinance can authorize Martial Rule. [It commences] upon a determination (not a declaration) by the senior military commander that the civil government must be replaced because it is no longer functioning anyway . . . The significance of Martial Rule in civil disorders is that it shifts control from civilians and to the military completely and without the necessity of a declaration, proclamation or other form of public manifestation . . . As stated above, Martial Rule is limited only by the principle of necessary force.'"
Consider this from a National Security Council directive written by Frank Carlucci in 1981: "Normally a state of martial law will be proclaimed by the President. However, in the absence of such action by the President, a senior military commander may impose martial law in an area of his command where there had been a complete breakdown in the exercise of government functions by local civilian authorities."
In 1950, Congress, concerned about communism, passed the Detention Act of 1950. The Detention Act of 1950 (the "Act") can be found in the series of books called the "Statutes at Large" in any law library. This law gave the government the capability to arrest and detain those people or groups which were deemed to be subversive and a threat to the government of the United States, and hold people in detention camps around the country.
One portion of the Detention Act of 1950 which was the cause of great concern read: Sec. 103. (a) Whenever there shall be in existence such an emergency, the President, acting through the Attorney General, is hereby authorized to apprehend and by order detain, pursuant to the provisions of this title, each person as to whom there is reasonable ground to believe probably will engage in, or probably will conspire with others to engage in, acts of espionage or of sabotage
The problem with the above section is that it violates the civil rights of those arrested. It is unacceptable to arrest someone on the suspicion that someday that person may break the law. There were other short comings to the "Act". They included:
*the implementation of the law required no further Congressional action, but simply a declaration by the President of a state of emergency;
*group affiliation could be a basis for detention, without necessarily any evidence as to individual behavior;
*confrontation of adverse witnesses and full knowledge of charges and evidence were effectively denied in order to protect the government's sources of information;
*the only way to prove innocence would be the impossible task of guaranteeing future behavior;
*bail was not permitted;
*the law provided no trial by jury but rather a series of administrative appeals after the fact of detention;
*and, the penalty provided under the law is incarceration of an indefinite duration.
As you can see, this is very similar to the recently enacted Patriot Act and Bush's "enemy combatant" doctrine.
For years, those of us who have warned that FEMA was a shadow government in waiting, warned of fiat laws in the unconstitutional form of executive orders, have been summarily denigrated, defamed and dismissed as "Chicken Littles" and "Right-wing Whackos". Now we get the chance to say, "I told you so," but being right doesn't make us feel any better.
FEMA has ALWAYS been about continuity of government and NOT disaster response. While FEMA has spent many billions for underground shelters for the government and corporate bigwigs, nothing has been prepared to protect the American people. We are only good for paying the bills.
Nixon's Executive Order 11490 combined 15 EOs into one that controls all aspects of American life in an emergency situation. What emerged was a plan for dictatorship. Clinton took Executive Order 11490 and added a lot more bad things to it with two of his EOs. In a third EO, he put the Attorney General in charge of the emergency. That EO is still on the books -- and we now have Constitution-gutter John Ashcroft at the helm.
Another thing Clinton did was create a civil servant reserve cadre, much like our military reserves. This cadre is what Bush activated for bunker duty in his version of a shadow government. These people are not elected -- they are appointed.
Freedom Movement leader and one of the founders of the Texas Constitutional Milita, Jon Roland wrote, "Rex-84 (along with other joint-mobilization exercises as 'Proud Saber/Rex-82,' 'Operation Garden Plot,' and 'Operation Night Train') was practiced with 34 other agencies such as the CIA, FBI and the Secret Service. Ben Bradlee, in his book, The Rise And Fall of Oliver North, writes that the Rex exercise was designed to test FEMA's readiness to assume authority over the DoD, the National Guard, and 'a number of state defense forces to be established by state legislatures.' The military would then be 'deputized,' making an end run around the Posse Comitatus Act. This was the same Posse Comitatus Act that was breached at L.A. and Waco."
Oliver North's role in the creation of FEMA should be better known. In a book called Guts and Glory: The Rise and Fall of Oliver North, author Ben Bradlee, Jr, writes:
"North's work for FEMA - from 1982 to the spring of 1984 - was highly classified, and some would say bizarre. During that period, the Miami Herald reported, he was involved in helping to draft a sweeping contingency plan to impose martial law in the event of a nuclear war, or less serious national crises such as widespread internal dissent, or opposition to an American military invasion abroad.
"The plan - which also gave FEMA itself broad authority to report directly to the President, appoint military commanders and run state and local governments [Executive Order 11490] - ruffled many administration feathers," continues Bradlee.
"North would also play a role in helping FEMA stage a national emergency simulation exercise [on] April 5 - 18, 1984... Rex-84 Bravo, authorised by President Reagan's signature of National Security Decision Directive 52, was predicated in his declaration of a state of national emergency concurrent with a mythical invasion (code-named Operation Night Train) of an unspecified Central American country, presumably Nicaragua.
"...Rex-84 Bravo was designed to test FEMA's readiness to assume authority over Department of Defense personnel, all fifty state National Guard forces and a number of 'State Defense Force' units which were to be created by state legislative enactments. FEMA would 'deputize' all DoD and state National Guard personnel, so as to avoid violating the federal Posse Comitatus Act which forbids using any military forces for domestic law enforcement," writes Bradlee.
Napa Valley Sentinel Editor and writer Harry V. Martin puts it this way: "The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis."
"The Violent Crime Control Act of 1991 provides additional powers to the President of the United States, allowing the suspension of the Constitution and Constitutional rights of Americans during a "drug crisis". It provides for the construction of detention camps, seizure of property, and military control of populated areas. This, teamed with the Executive Orders of the President, enables Orwellian prophecies to rest on whoever occupies the White House. The power provided by these "laws" allows suspension of the Constitution and the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights during any civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes and allows the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of Martial Law.
"Perhaps it can be summed up succinctly in the words of arch-conservative activist Howard J. Ruff. 'Since the enactment of Executive Order 11490, the only thing standing between us and dictatorship is the good character of the President, and the lack of a crisis severe enough that the public would stand still for it.'"
Bush has already shown himself to not being overly concerned for constitutional niceties. November 2004 cannot arrive soon enough for me. Lord help America if we should suffer a major WMD attack while Bush remains in office!
--Henrietta
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/20/185048.shtml
Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack
Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.
Franks, who successfully led the U.S. military operation to liberate Iraq, expressed his worries in an extensive interview he gave to the men's lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado.
In the magazine's December edition, the former commander of the military's Central Command warned that if terrorists succeeded in using a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) against the U.S. or one of our allies, it would likely have catastrophic consequences for our cherished republican form of government.
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-19.40/toc.htm
"Military Police Field Manual #3-19.40:" The subtitle on this government manual is: "Military Police Internment/Resettlement Operations." This was issued a few months BEFORE the 9/11 attacks and has been virtually totally ignored by the mass media. It is the official government military policy for establishing and maintaining CONCENTRATION CAMPS in this country.
http://www.pbnnews.4mg.com/articles/civdc.html
CIVILIAN DETENTION CAMPS (A MUST read -- excellent!)
-- Posted by frenchy on 9:23 am on Nov. 23, 2003
Ma'am,
Your statement,
"Military Police Field Manual #3-19.40:" The subtitle on this government manual is: "Military Police Internment/Resettlement Operations." This was issued a few months BEFORE the 9/11 attacks and has been virtually totally ignored by the mass media. It is the official government military policy for establishing and maintaining CONCENTRATION CAMPS in this country.
is far fetched. The Army has been revising all of its pubs for some time. That FM is not official policy since EVERY FM is only a doctrinal template to help soldiers perform their mission/job. Army policies are in the Army Regulations (ARs). FMs are not punishable under UCMJ if one does not follow it. The old FM 19-40 was old. I mean it was way old and didn't have enough info in it to cover our wartime mission (ie: recent conflicts)!! The new FM 3-19.40 was revised to include lessons learned from past conflicts and anything else that would facilitate performing that mission (ie: Gulf War I). I do not believe that there is an MP in the US Army that has received a class on setting up CONCENTRATION CAMPS in the US. Very few MPs use this publication as is. The main active duty folks who use this pub are those who operate confinement facilities (I know of about 3 in the US Army and 2 are overseas in Korea and Germany), and the Provost Marshals who use it because it has specifications for what a detention cell should look like. The MPs that primary use this pub are 31Cs...and there are VERY VERY few MPs with this MOS.
Can this pub be used for CCs in the U.S.? It sure can, but so can the other hundred publications being updated and released on a monthly basis. Some are even sold on the internet (see Ranger Joe's). BTW, this pub is also used in other situations:
--Disaster relief
--EPW Camps
--Displaced Civilians and refugees
--US Prisoners (soldiers who have violated the UCMJ)
--International Transfer Points (captured ENY soldiers who are then transferred over to the Host Nation)
--The design of Detention Cells (jail cells) (like I said earlier) for soldiers who screw up and are waiting for the unit leadership to come pick them up.
Many publications have been revised and released before and after 9/11. Go and check the 23 series of FMs. They all deal with weapons. SF has had some new pubs recently come out. Does that mean that the Army is plotting and scheming because we have new weapons publications and SF manuals? Did a Betty Crocker cookbook come out before or after 9/11? Did its release coincide with the release of FM 3-19.40? If it did, does that mean that we military folks are cooking up recipes of apple pie and meatloaf to serve to those Americans who will be interned?!! Hmmm. Now that I think of it, there is evidence that this is true! Maybe this all explains why our PXs are now carrying the George Foreman grills in high quantities!! And since the PXs now carry more and more goods that are made in China, I bet the Chinese have collaborated with our President to ensure that their goods are used in the I/R facilities!! It's one big conspiracy isn't it?! What are we to do?! I have a recommendation, we should all get FMs 3-23.19 and 23, and so on and so forth, so that we can learn how to shoot pistols and rifles. This way, we can all use the Army publications against the military! What a thought! We'll get the last laugh! As the MPs are reeling in defeat from our grassroots uprising, some unknown William Wallace will yell out, "MPs!!!...we read your books!"
I ask that you stop spooking people and saying that the release of the publication had something to do with 9/11 and a plan to build CCs in the US. I cannot say that it didn't, but you cannot prove that it did, either. And since you cannot prove it...stop spreading lies!
Sincerely,
Rick Banks
p.s. to all you readers, most Army publications are available for public release, just like the Urban Ops FM in my possession. Uh oh! I just released classified! Oh my gosh, our plans to take over the cities are in this pub....and I told you about it!! I'm doomed! Somebody save the Republic!
You may find Army admin pubs here: http://www.army.mil/usapa/ . MP ARs start with 190.
You may find other FMs here.
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/ . The site was down when I checked. All MP pubs start with FM 3-19.xx.
-- Posted by Henrietta Bowman on 12:46 pm on Nov. 23, 2003
""Military Police Field Manual #3-19.40:" The subtitle on this government manual is: "Military Police Internment/Resettlement Operations." This was issued a few months BEFORE the 9/11 attacks and has been virtually totally ignored by the mass media. It is the official government military policy for establishing and maintaining CONCENTRATION CAMPS in this country."
Frenchy, I do not claim to agree with every single thing in every link I provide. The idea is to let people read and then do their own research. The main function of a message board is communication and to offer a starting point. Most of us on this board are smart enough to know you should not believe everything you read, no matter what the source.
--Henrietta
-- Posted by frenchy on 2:38 pm on Nov. 23, 2003
Ma'am,
I'm glad you clarified that. So you got that info from a link? That would explain it. You are correct in that most people in this forum will do their own research, but please bear in mind that someone with your reputation for being on point might cause others to take your info at face value and therefore not go the extra step. For instance, we folks in the military respect what Col Hackworth has to say. When he says somethin is ate up...IT'S ATE UP!! So when you cut and paste a link that looks like William Cooper or David Icke had written the statement, then people will believe it at first glance. You're good. You're really good, but think of yourself as the pastor of a church. What you say is gospel. What you report may be the only thing some folks get to read. They trust you. They don't have time to do the research you do, nor do they have the knowledge you possess...so they count on you to do it for them--to keep them informed. 
Well, glad that's all cleared up. Just remember, Field Manuals are not govt policy, nor is FM 3-19.40 the official govt policy. FM 3-19.40 replaced FM 19-40 which was dated 1976 (bout time)!!
Sincerely,
Rick
-- Posted by Old Salt II on 9:05 pm on Nov. 23, 2003
Let's just say I'd feel better about such things if I hadn't seen that part of the plans for the Continuity of Government in the case of Nuclear War involved confiscation of civilian owned firearms in CONUS.
-- Posted by frenchy on 10:42 am on Nov. 24, 2003
i agree! i say go out and buy as many guns as possible! you can never own enough guns. well, just make sure you got about 10,000 rounds of ammo. when all is said and done, just remember that this world is just a pitstop. and all of those new world order hopefuls will have their way for a little bit, then Jesus will come back and ruin their plans and reign for 1000 years...and we will judge the nations and all of those NWO fools. feels good already!
rick
-- Posted by Turncoat on 11:53 am on Nov. 25, 2003
Hey, guys, c'mon! We hear all the time about the vaunted militia movement and how the armed citizenry stands between the government and the police state. Hogwash.
First of all, if Gen Franks DID say what he isa alleged to have said, I'm sure he meant it in only the most benevolent way possible, meaning that such a state of emergency would only be temporary, (knowing as well all do how easy it would be for the average citizen to panic or revert to outlaw status) ending when the threat has passed and the enemy defeated. Who knows how long that would take, and how many subversives would be out in the night trying to spread chaos throughout the land?
Franks may be right and he may have the only solution available to us when and if such an event took place. The importatnt thing to rememberis that the constitution would be reinstated in due course and the country would be none the worse for it. There have been plenty of times when the LOCAL governments suspended the constitution and the fed did nothing about it. We are still here.
The one time when the (Southern) population tried the militai solution to disagreement with the Fed, look what happened. Today's "Northern aggressors" have one hundred times the firepower that it had two hundred years ago, while the people have only improved their arsenal.
The best equipped militia force in the country wouln't last a week against a platoon of National Guard Infantry. I know. I have been in the militia, the Army and the Guard. I'd personally run through a copmpany of militiamen in order to escape a modern infantry squad.
We only have to look at Waco, Ruby Ridge, Vidor and a couple of others to see what effect the citizens have against the U.S. military.
I am by no means anti-militia. To the contrary. I trust the government as far as I can throw it, but I do know that the majority of Americans have evolved to the point at which we can do nothing for ourselves and when the fed says "JUMP" we jump and then ask "Is that high, fast or far enough?"
We'd better hope if we DO have to go to martial law, that we will have a president with the character required to lead us through that period and back to normalcy. There are not nearly enough militia to prevent the government from doing anything.
-- Posted by WillA2 on 12:55 pm on Nov. 25, 2003
turncoat-
I think there would be a good number of individuals who would stand against that type of aggression. There are a good number of ex-military in the militia movement as well. I think you would find it a little harder to "run through" a militia than you seem to estimate. The Branch Davidians were not what I would call hardcore militia.
-- Posted by Old Salt II on 4:44 pm on Nov. 25, 2003
Indeed, you can see exactly how successful our modern heavy armored forces are against a "militia" type opposition, in Iraq. Where things are not always going our way. Seems our forces can pretty much move anywhere they want to, but don't seem to be able to find any good "safe" areas to hang out in. As a result of which, they keep getting ambushed incessantly. Granted, they usually give a pretty good account of themselves when one looks at the situation tactically, but wars are won and lost in the arena of strategy. Look how successful our forces were tactically in Vietnam. Then ask yourself if we can really chock that one up in the "win" column.
The basic situation is that as long as a force does not have the legitimate support of the people in an area and does not have the manpower to maintain a sufficient force to space ratio then there is no way they can "win" over the long term unless they are willing to deal with a guerilla war that can drag on for decades. A significant percentage of the time what happens is that either the occupying power hemorrhages economically to the point that they can't maintain the occupation, or military necessity brought on by problems elsewhere forces them to abandon it.
-- Posted by Turncoat on 8:04 pm on Nov. 25, 2003
No, neither the Branch Davidians nor the Ruby Ridge crowd were not exactly top flight military units, but they are the only ones who have actually stood up to the feds. I have no evidence that any militia unit has ever given the government little more than a mild inconvenience in dealing with it.
No doubt the war in Iraq is not always going as we like it, but that is not the same as fighting a militia unit here. I guarantee the U.S. military would not be trying to "win the hearts of the people" here like they are trying to in Iraq. Our guys are getting hit for the same reasons that Viet Nam was NOT a "win" and that is the politicians would not turn them loose on the offense. We could have won Viet Nam AND Iraq in months if not weeks if we had been allowed to CONQUER those countries,TELL the people how to act until we got ready to leave, and then kill everyone who stood up when we said "shut up".
And contrary to what you are hearing on the evening news bites, the war in Iraq is going a lot better than we know. You only hear aobut the one or two deaths every day. We had ten or twenty every day in Viet Nam and THREE HUNDRED a day in WWII. All we heard about back home was Audie Murphy and John Wayne.
The martial law and strict regulation that we REFUSE to impose on the people of Iraq would happen within days here. I also think that the people of Iraq are a lot better armed and willing to die than we, even our militia are. I'm not saying that the militia would not be a "pain in the butt", and I know that many members are ex military. I AM, however, saying that there is no way any group in this or any other country is going to be as well trained and equipped as our military.
And as for the population having to support us before we can win, try telling that to every country that the Nazis or Japan took over during WWII.
I have no problem with forceful occupation, and that is the ONLY thing that I disagree with regarding Iraq. We are too nice. No way that happens if the enemy are our own citizens.
The hammer would fall fast and furious.
Regards
-- Posted by DPR 2003 on 11:33 pm on Nov. 25, 2003
Very well said, Mr. Frazier, though I am sure that there are some here who would disagree with you on the progress of the war in Iraq, soon to be the war in Iran and then the whole Middle East (can anyone say Armegeddon?).
Your analysis of the Viet Nam situation is on the mark for the most part. Again, some here will argue that we never should have set foot in Viet Nam; others (I'm sure) would say that such a tactic would have made the Vietnamese run, not walk, right into the arms of the Communists; others would probably say that we should have just sent arms over to the "good guys" and let them hash it out between themselves.
As for the militia resistance, I agree with my compatriots here that we would put up a fight, some up close and personal, some from a distance (take that however you want), but I tend to agree with you that we may not win it. Still, it is better to stand on your feet and fight against them and risk death rather than to live on your knees in abject servitude to the Wannabe Pharoahs, who will have your throat cut for their own amusement.
-- Posted by Leap on 6:04 am on Nov. 26, 2003
Still, it is better to stand on your feet and fight against them and risk death rather than to live on your knees in abject servitude to the Wannabe Pharoahs, who will have your throat cut for their own amusement.
And of course it is better still to fight without getting into stand-up suicide...........as resistance fighters across the world have found out
Think; train-tracks, roads, powerlines, communications......
-- Posted by DPR 2003 on 9:58 am on Nov. 26, 2003
Careful, Leap, what you say may be construed as promoting terrorism and terrorist tactics (as opposed to terrorist-flavored Tic-Tacs :smile: ).
-- Posted by Henrietta Bowman on 11:41 am on Nov. 26, 2003
"First of all, if Gen Franks DID say what he isa alleged to have said, I'm sure he meant it in only the most benevolent way possible, meaning that such a state of emergency would only be temporary, (knowing as well all do how easy it would be for the average citizen to panic or revert to outlaw status) ending when the threat has passed and the enemy defeated. Who knows how long that would take, and how many subversives would be out in the night trying to spread chaos throughout the land?"
Turncoat, that is like being "a little bit pregnant." When government usurps liberties, they are seldom given back, at least to the pre-usurpation level. It is called the ratchet effect.
As to declared emergencies, take the time to read the following Senate Report. I know for a fact Clinton had nine states of emergency that he declared. I have not tried to keep track of the number Bush has declared. Clinton's are still on the books and one of Clinton's EOs combines about 14 other EOs and it sets us up for martial law, including relocation and forced labor. I read it from start to finish and as a former legal editor, I understood perfectly what I was reading. That EO is also still on the books and needs only a phone call from the president to activate.
--Henrietta
http://www.freedomsite.net/93-549.htm
Emergency Powers Statutes (Senate Report 93-549)
In this 1973 official report, the U.S. Senate admits that the Emergency Powers given to the President under the pretense of the National Emergency of 1933 have remained in force and that the normal function of the Federal government has been suspended.
FOREWORD
Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency. In fact, there are now in effect four presidentially-proclaimed states of national emergency: In addition to the national emergency declared by President Roosevelt in 1933, there are also the national emergency proclaimed by President Truman on December 16, 1950, during the Korean conflict, and the states of national emergency declared by President Nixon on March 23, 1970, and August 15, 1971.
These proclamations give force to 470 provisions of Federal law. These hundreds of statutes delegate to the President extraordinary powers, ordinarily exercised by the Congress, which affect the lives of American citizens in a host of all-encompassing manners. This vast range of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule the country without reference to normal Constitutional processes.
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