Can all the pure dragon boaters be honest? Does it bother you that any flatwater or marathoners can hop in a boat and kick your ass? Is it sad that you waste your time training in a boat that you can never win? How annoying is it that a bunch of 13year old flatwaters can hop in a boat and beat you?

If you just do it for fun or fitness, thats okay, but I am very interested in all those people that take it so serious but can never be the best. Does it bother you?

You are an arrogant ***hole. Pure dragon boaters will eventually rule.

And you know it...

Is it just me, or was Mrs Walton a real Hottie?

Poster, you miss the point of competition beyond that of "being #1"...how about working and training hard to be the best that you can be at a sport? You may think it a cliche, but for many it is enough to know you are better than you were last year and the year before that. One flat water paddler doth not a team make, and many dbers have made teams that race internationally, and continue to do so. There must be something more important that you can worry your silly little head about...

Just a pointless thread to rile people up.

Well JB, I take it from the confident tone of your post that you are the #1 ranked flatwater or marathon paddler in Canada. Congratulations, it must have taken years of hard work to become such an excellent paddler. Or, maybe you're NOT the #1 paddler in the country, which makes you just another arrogant, condescending, shit-flinging has-been (or never-was).

You see John Boy, when all you care about is winning or losing then 99.99% of us are losers. That includes you, asshole.

Are dragon boat paddlers "annoyed" that people who have spent 10 times the amount of time paddling as we have can beat us in a sport where on average we spend less than 4hours a week on the water? I'm sure that some of us are. But is that going to make us cry into our pillows? Do you think that winning or losing this race or that is the only thing that brings us into the boat?

Hardly. It's mostly about the paddling, it's a lot about the people, it's sometimes just a love of the sport.

What does annoy us are little 14 year old wanna-be's like you, who think that because there are excellent paddlers in dragon boat racing sport that share your flatwater background that it somehow makes YOU superior. Guess what? It doesn't.

So long, jackass.

Last year I had the opportunity to race a flatwater paddler in a kayak. I was shocked when I kicked his ass...so was he.
I guess my point is that there are many great flatwater paddlers, but just like dragonboat their are guys that are wannabees. My guess is that only the wannabees make comment like this poster.

yawn

He what do you expect from the forum. No offense to Peter but he is not the Outrigger king and I am sure he will tell you that. There are many other paddlers in Ontario never mind in the west coast that are more experienced and accomplished Outrigger racers and paddlers.

Ya well John Boy, my dad can beat up your dad... and so can my mom!!!!

Dear poster,

Do you realise how insignificant flatwater paddling is? Does anyone care about your little sport? Let me ask you a few questions. Does it bother you that Dragon boating gets much more media coverage than kayaks. Does it bother you there are way more spectators at the Sudbury festival than there are at WOD's or any provincial flatwater meet? Does it bother you more people are interersted in dragon boating than your sport? Does it bother you corporate sponsors are abundant in our sport and not in yours? Hummmmmm let me think....

You don't have to answer. I know all of this bothers you.

See you on the water.

1. Do you realise how insignificant flatwater paddling is?

An insignficant Olympic sport. Yes. Very insignificant.

2. Does it bother you that Dragon boating gets much more media coverage than kayaks?

Does it bother you that dragon boating never gets coverage in the actual sports section?

3. Does anyone care about your little sport?

Yes, the IOC.

4. Does it bother you there are way more spectators at the Sudbury festival than there are at WOD's or any provincial flatwater meet?

WOD's are not a provincial meet. They are a regional meet.

5. Does it bother you corporate sponsors are abundant in our sport and not in yours?

The last I checked, Rideau, Adidas, and Mazda were prominent sponsors of the national team?

6. Does it bother you more people are interersted in dragon boating than your sport?

Does it bother you that you never accomplished anything as an athlete and has to resort to winning the F division for success?

It does not bother me at all, because dragon boating appeals to the lowest form of paddlers so it has a large mass appeal.


Dragon boating is fun, but I am trying to figure out how it would feel to do a sport and take myself so serious when I had no chance of winning. I think I would rather just do something else.

So Does it bother you?

Most dragon boat teams are for recreational paddling, get out and have fun, meet some new people and be apart of something and drink alot of beer! There are elite teams but they are far out numbered by 'fun' teams. So I'll put an elite dragon boat paddler up against a flatwater paddler and may the best one win. Do remember though that most elite teams don't paddle for a living, it is very part time, (perhaps 10hrs of combined training a week), and yet they can paddle their asses off. Not sure what this thread was ever suppose to accomplish John Boy. Who cares really if a flatwater paddler that has been training a great deal beats a dragon boat paddler, I don't.

I can't believe this thread has gone on so long. JOHN BOY, are you ranked #1 in the world at whatever you compete in? Are you an Olympic gold medalist? Do you believe you have any chance to be? If not, why don't you give up and do something else as you have suggested? Someone once told me that there's only 1 winner. 2nd place is just the 1st place loser. I am comfortable with the fact that I am usually a loser at most things I do but still do them. You wanted honesty so that's as honest as I can be.

So maybe you can answer your own question for me. How does it feel to take something seriously and never have any chance to win? If you have an Olympic medal or think you will soon be world champion, then I sincerely apologize.

Hey Jon Boy, I really don't mind loosing to flatwater paddlers. I make more money and have a better education than you. Have fun wasting your life trying to get attention you will never receive.

I'll bet you a pint that the most JOHN BOY ever won was maybe, maybe, a provincial level regatta. In a war canoe, not in a kayak or a canoe.
On top of that, while the rest of Ontario high performance crowd is in Florida, training, little JOHN BOY didn't get to go. Poor thing.
Don't worry JOHN BOY, not all is lost. You can hang around my crew at dragonboat festivals, we'll share our beer.

This is hilarious. Good DB solidarity. Good luck in life John Boy, perhaps a dragon boat paddler will give you a job one day.

You wanted HONEST you got.

ha ha - I'm totally picturing a bunch of overweight 30-somethings in too-tight spandex lining up to high five each other. yeah ....Dragonboaters ROCK!

This is the most embarassing thread I've ever read. From my experiences those who are good at their sport, whatever the sport, don't feel the need to go around tooting their own horn.

Clearly the participants of this childish argument are nothing more than wannabee neverwas athletes trying to justify they're pathetic existence by putting the others down.

Grow up and get a job. Make some money and contribute to our society in a meaningfull way. Sport is sport. Period.

Another useless flamewar creating further divisions in the paddling community.

Can't we all just get along?

" ha ha - I'm totally picturing a bunch of overweight 30-somethings in too-tight spandex lining up to high five each other. yeah ....Dragonboaters ROCK! "

We do rock. You know what's even funnier?
That you're there with them, doing the high fives.

poor John Boy. Everyone thinks your a dink.

By the way I know plenty of down to earth flatwater paddlers who have respect for dragon boating. They know that one day they will retire thier K-1 or C-1 and come play with us.

Cheers to all, except John Boy

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Opinions do not matter.

Everyone has an a$$hole, but not everyone has to be one.

John Boy is just an a$$hole that grew arms and legs.

Good God people, give it a rest. Proof positive that you've nothing better to do than let yourselves be provoked by someone who'll burn every braincell in his on drugs in a few weeks anyway.

Now I'm just going to be honest. It does bother me, certainly, that there has been occasion in the past of flatwater or marathon paddlers "throwing together a boat" and kicking everyone's ass (yours as well John Boy). Is it sad that you feel I waste my time? That is thoughtful of you John Boy, I was beginning to think you didn't care.

13 year old flatwater paddlers? When did they lower the age restriction? Now a bunch of 16year old flatwater paddlers might have me concerned.

I appreciate that you make the generous allowance of it being "okay" to participate "if you just do it for fun or fitness". Did you ever consider that this act of taking it so seriously should perhaps be respected.

Now for the real question posed by your post -
John Boy, if I wake at 6am each morning to run for an hour, go to the gym 5xweek, and pool practises 2xwk because I take my sport seriously (as I should, I share the boat with 19 other very committed individuals), DOES IT BOTHER YOU?

Know it does not bother me, because its still easy to beat you.

Take Care

JOHN BOY are you on the national dragon boat team?

No john boy is on the national bITCH team loosen up those panties honey bunch

He's not on the national team. From experience I can tell you that members of the national team understand sportmanship and would never pose such a ridiculous question intended to demean and ridicule. They respect people who take their sport seriously, regardless of how they place in a race.

Let's face it, how absurd would it be if a whole boat of John Boys (apparently the "best" paddlers, who always win) showed up at a regatta and none of the so-called "pure dragonboaters" decided to race that day, because apparently they're never going to win anyway. How lame would that be John Boy? Who would you win against?

Perhaps you should take a lesson from the National Team members and recognise that yes, chances are quite high you will win races, but you should respect your competition (in whatever form they present), otherwise you end up on that race course alone.

Talent is God given,
be thankful.
Fame is man given,
be humble.
Conceit is self given,
be careful.

...and thank you John Boy, I will take care, as should you.

John boy is to flatwater as Ty Domi is to hockey

my godness, all ya dragonboaters dont cry....we know you all think you are the greatest. think again...

sigh... look at all of you, a single comment form some stuck-up, rich, little (down south) bastard and you get all riled up,

word of advice my fellow boaters, these people will always exist, and life is too short, so why bother sparing them a piece of your time, they'll never know the joy of teamwork, so why bother arguing with them,

like my team always says, focus in the boat

teamwork.!?..more like a sect. dragonboating has taken over your brains and lifes.

I doubt this "John-Boy" is anything but stuck up and rich, but rather a pimply faced teenage boy who is at home right surfing the net for porn and is a half ass wannabee athlete. Come on John Boy show us a picture!!!

reply to this message

Anonymous
Re: BE HONEST March 21 2005, 6:22 PM


teamwork.!?..more like a sect. dragonboating has taken over your brains and lifes.



oh wow you replyed to my message in just 40 minuets, man do you monitor this website or something,

by the way why do you have the same i.p. as John Boy, and yes in case your wondering, I got a good db buddy on the team who hacks, another advantage to having a large team with different background, does the person in your war canoe or K4, C2 do that?

this is the last time im responding to this dumb thread, pointless arguing with those without humility

no need to cry "Luke"

I can honestly say that it does not bother me that a better paddler can beat me because he/she spends more time on the water training then i do. If i wanted it bad enough I have no doubts that I could achieve similar results if not better.

Truth: Most flat paddlers can make a dragonboat go faster because they are more fit (though they may not be as tecnically sound).

Truth: The reason is becuase they train harder.

Truth: If I trained more than they did I would be better than them.

Truth: I don't care to and choose to have a social life. Doesn't mean I'm going to try and be very good at what I enjoy.

This arguement is like saying, wow an olympic weight lifting champ could probably kick my ass in arm wrestling even if I trained. Big deal.

Final answer, if I was in as good shape as a top flat water paddler and they beat me, then perhaps I'd be pissed.

"I can honestly say that it does not bother me that a better paddler can beat me because he/she spends more time on the water training then i do. If i wanted it bad enough I have no doubts that I could achieve similar results if not better."

Talent is a commodity. Who gives a shit about if's and's or but's.
Excellence is a habit, something done day in and day out. The drive you speak of, which you do not have, is critical in getting anywhere in this world. Don't knock it. Every armchair athlete, or in this case, seated paddler, can claim the same as you are, but it's not much to brag about. Not saying that you're bragging, but it is true.

Also, re: having a life, everyone living and breathing is having a life. I would rather live my life the way I want to and not worry about what other people think. Some people want to accomplish things, and the sacrifices are just part of the experience.

Hmmm....

It sounds like your arguing with me by agreeing with me.

Oh, well.

Oh, my mistake. I guess I got confused by your quote that did not actually quote anything said in this forum.

1) Talent is not a commodity. A commodity can be traded. Talent cannot. I don't respect talent. I respect work ethic and determination. Maybe you worship false idols.

2) Nobody cares about "if's and's or but's" (Note proper use of quotes). My point was I don't want to be an elite athlete because of the high cost. I don't have the determination or drive to give up many things I really enjoy (such as multiple sports, socializing, and other endeavours). Therefore, I'm not terribly troubled when someone who is more committed to training beats me. Good for them.

3) "Excellence is a habit, something done day in and day out". Nice, you must be real fun. Look I sharpened my pencil to perfection.

4) I'm not making fun of drive or work ethic. But I do maintain that I have the freedom to choose my level of work ethic and also what I invest it into. Those that do more will perform better. Hurraw!

5) "everyone living and breathing is having a life". Deep. But what about those who are living and not breathing? I think the saying of "Have a life" is typically taken as a figure of speech. Clearly someone who trains day in and day out is actually alive. I just meant I liked to socialize and not focus all of my energy on one end. Someone who replaces this time with training will benefit from it, but they pay that cost.

Ya, ok. I guess I should read other peoples posts too

"1. Do you realise how insignificant flatwater paddling is?

An insignficant Olympic sport. Yes. Very insignificant.

2. Does it bother you that Dragon boating gets much more media coverage than kayaks?

Does it bother you that dragon boating never gets coverage in the actual sports section?

3. Does anyone care about your little sport?

Yes, the IOC.

4. Does it bother you there are way more spectators at the Sudbury festival than there are at WOD's or any provincial flatwater meet?

WOD's are not a provincial meet. They are a regional meet.

5. Does it bother you corporate sponsors are abundant in our sport and not in yours?

The last I checked, Rideau, Adidas, and Mazda were prominent sponsors of the national team?

6. Does it bother you more people are interersted in dragon boating than your sport?

Does it bother you that you never accomplished anything as an athlete and has to resort to winning the F division for success?"

pwned.....noob

It must bother you that anyone from that insignificant sport can hop in a boat at any time and take over your huge popular sport.

Dragon boating is popular because its easy to do.

I think the anonymous poster is not referring to a commodity in financial terms, but in the terms of Calvin Coolidge's quote about how talent is commonplace among men, but that persistence sets successful individuals apart from those that don't achieve the same accolades.

I think Anonymous thinks you're being defensive. I completely agree.

Totally disagree with PowerDemon. Are you saying that if you put in the same hours of training that you could be the second coming of Larry Cain?

That could very possibly be true. But get a grip on yourself..and don't count on that hypothetical possibility. Everyone and anyone can criticize the best and talk shit. But who cares about you? Unless you can bring it, just shut up.

OOOOUCHH!

Not to mention overtraining and diminishing returns. If you train more you might not be as good as you think you will.

What Power Demon is saying is that...

Why get upset that someone that trains way more then you is better than you? It would be like getting upset that a pro tennis player is better than you when you only play once a week (or golf for that matter). I am sure we all have friends who play several times a week and beat us by 10-20 strokes. Do you get pissed off?

Another point to be made here is that it would never even occur to your friend (or even a stranger you happen to get paired with) to say. "Isn't it humiliating to know you don't have a chance of winning against me?" How classless would that be... Anyone getting that? Bueller?

Now if you were to make Golf (or DB or whatever) your life’s ambition and train with the same intensity as the best of them then there is at least a basis for an argument that you could be frustrated by the fact that no matter how hard you train you will never be good enough to beat some people. That said, I think that most highly trained competitive athletes KNOW that there is only one person/team per sport that can be the best so everyone else looses to some degree. I find it hard to believe that they all go around thinking they are failures because there are some competitors they cannot beat. It’s totally ridiculous.

So John Boy, in closing I would say that I as a long time paddler who has consistently tried to raise his game to the point where I would like to think that I am a lot closer to the top than the bottom do not in the least feel any angst knowing that I probably will never be able to beat Larry Cain in a one-on-one race off and that there is little chance of my “competitive” club beating the National team.

I do not know of a single paddler from a Dragon Boat, OC1 or flat-water background who thinks this way either. In your attempt to rile us up, you direct your jab at us paddlers with a Dragon Boating background, but your dart hits everyone including yourself.

May the Schwartz be with you!

Bravo!

Very well put!

I have tons of respect for real flatwater paddlers. Real flatwater paddlers have respect for other sports. I don't think you would hear the Buday brothers bitching about dragon boating. The Buday's are too classy. Another good example is Larry Cain, this guy won an Olympic gold and he embraces dragon boating, another classy guy. In general national team paddlers are intelligent nice people who respect other sports.

So John boy, my feeling is that you are a flatwater paddler who never really made it and you want to feel big and strong looking down at dragon boaters.

John boy you make flatwater paddlers look bad.

It seems people have risen to my defence and certainly X has well put what my responce would have been.

I would also like to point out that I wouldn't want to be the next Larry Cain. I prefer a less specialized approach to sport including other interests and a more well rounded lifestyle. This doesn't mean I that I don't think the persuit of excellence in sport is any less admerable, but it doesn't interest me given the high cost of training at that level.

Therefore when someone who has trained more and is in better shape beats me, it is in part due to the choice I have made to pursue other interests. I applaud their commitment to the sport, but I wouldn't expect to beat them so why would I be upset.

There's high crossover in the sport. Big deal.

what power demon is saying is true. if you're a jack of all trades, you'll be a master of none.

if you are good, be humble. There is no need to glout, flaunt or make others feel bad about the situation. If you train harder, and are more dedicated then others, then why would it not be natural for you to be better in a dragon boat, or any other boat/sport etc. Posts such as these show how some people have nothing better to do then to make others feel bad in order to boost their own egos.


As the poster for 12:53, I was not trying to put anyone down. Sure some people have more talent then others, others have to work to achieve the results that they achieve, but in the end am i disapointed that someone who paddles more then me, or is more dedicated or has more talent then me can paddle once or twice in a dragon boat and still beat me...no. i don't just paddle to win, i work with the people on my team because i enjoy this sport and i enjoy working together with people.

Here's what I think the real conflict is between Dragonboaters and flatwater paddlers (and why Dragonboaters are "bothered when they get beat").

Dragonboaters are upset by the fact that flatwater paddlers often do not take dragonboating seriously and view it as a lesser sport. However, because of fitness levels they are still very strong paddlers.

Why would flatwater paddlers look down on Dragonboating?

1) Though more people are involved in Dragonboating, there are fewer top elite athletes that take part. Part of this may be related to the fact that Dragonboaters usually start paddling later in life but for whatever the reason there are not as many top athletes.

Top athletes tend to respect only those who have pushed themselves and sacrificed as much as they have. As a result, there is a general lack of respect for the athleticism there is in the sport.

I don't necessarily subscribe to this, but I imagine I'm the exception.

2) In one sense, Dragonboating is easier. Hear me out!

Take an average person and put them in a War Canoe versus a dragonboat and the War Canoe will physically beat them up much faster than the dragonboat. This is related to the more compact style of dragonboating as well as the ratio of people to weight in the boat.

Take an average person and put them in a C1. They fall out. They can't even begin to do anything in the sport.

From this point of view, it may be easier for someone to be what is considered a decent dragonboat paddler versus a decent War Canoe or C1 paddler. Flatwater paddlers likely resent the fact that many people in Dragonboating think they are better athletes then they comparatively would be as a flat water paddler.

Here's the counter point. For a good athlete, both flatwater and dragonboating should be just as hard. If a flatwater paddler finds Dragonboating "easier", then they should be pushing yourself harder. In both sports you should be able to push yourself to your physical limits. If you've got more give it. No one can legitimately say one is easier than the other.

3) Dragonboats gets a lot more attention paid to it than flatwater because of the number of people who participate. More people probably take place in the Island Festival than paddle out of canoe clubs across the country (just a guess). More people probably can name the top Dragonboat teams in Canada than they can top paddlers. I think a lot of flatwater paddlers feel Dragonboating gets more attention then it deserves as they are more often than not the more serious, more skilled athletes.

I'd try to look on the positive side in the fact that Dragonboating has got far more people out paddling than ever before. In a dying sport any kind of interest in paddling is a good thing.

In conclusion, it's not the fact that a boat of flatwater paddlers beats you that upsets Dragonboaters. But the fact that they tend to not take it seriously, look down on the sport, and still win because of fitness levels that pisses people off. This is certainly not true for the majority of flatwater paddlers, but it is still the attitue of many. John boy, I respect the athleticism, but not the attitude. I will never be pissed by the fact that you beat me in a race, but I will be pissed that there are still assholes dragging down the sport.

There, I've said all I will say

Bravo Demon...Remember,most of the serious sprinters are in Florida.This JB just wanted to stir the pot a little before the spring thaw!!!!!

Just got off the water thought I'd check out the Forum, wow I really stirred the pot eh....

Keep training hard DBERS

get the fuck off your high seat once you're back from florida, your ass is mine. i am going to fuck you up. you'll feel like you've been fucked by a train.

the sodomites await, fucker.

fuck. you're a dead man.