My Gosh!!

What a bunch of whiners!! This is A LOT of complaining for a broken seat!!!!!!!
(and yes I was one of the teams who raced 2 hours late on sunday...in a (god forbid) heavy boat!)


2 mistakes were made:

1- It was unfair to race (even in separate heats) 2 different types of boats, because the times from all heats were compared.
2- Perhaps the organizers should have purchased an extra boat in case one should have broken.

I know for a fact the organizer for this competition is overworked and under-resourced!! I think it's remarkable how well Sunny put all this together and I think, despite the problems, he should be receiving more ‘thank yous’ then complaints. He did after all, almost single-handily organize a weekend for over 130 teams!!!!!!!

Every event will have its problems. I have certainly raced in far worse conditions then these!


In terms of dragon boating, the boats I have seen in North America, including Montreal are FANTASTIC!! Obviously a few loose seats, but nothing to warrant all this complaining!!

Go to Asia and see what they race in:
-wanna talk about weight? try hollowed out trees!!
-Wanna talk seats? Try none!!
-Splinter... spiders... paddles with no tops/handles!
-Paddles weighing about 5 lbs each.

You people complaining are just spoiled!!

As long as everyone is using the same spider infested, hollowed out tree with splintered benches…THE RACE IS FAIR!!!!! Times can only be compared within one race. You can not partake in international competitions and expect to race the same time you do at practice...unless you plan to bring your own boats!?

You guys complaining about the boats are obviously missing what dragon boating is all about! Team work. Fun. Celebration. Friendship.

I think Kelly needs to chill out a bit.

People are complaining because they want a fair comp..and everything counts okay. You may not be in the sport for the competition but wake up and open your eyes to see that a lot of individuals are.

Okay, Asia might have hollowed out trees as you say...but what, are you going to be a parent now?! "you should be greatful son, back in the day I didn't have a car, I walked to school.." blah blah...and just insinuating that we should be thankful for everything we have. Well you know what...we HAVE IT and it is hard for human nature to be satisfied.

This is an OPEN forum, you shouldn't bash people who are pissed about unfair competition.

EASY now...

" Go to Asia and see what they race in."

Go to Asia and see what they live in.

What's your point?

Things I liked about Montreal:

-the food court, well located and excellent variety
-the venue, the best in Canada, without a doubt
-the weather, beautiful
-race results in Chinese
-Montreal, vive le Quebec!
-Let's Sink Together, the team(s) in the bright pink t-shirts with the cotton-candy machine
-Kraken, awesome spirit
-Verdun, a well-earned win in their home town

You're right, that wasn't so hard after all.

Competitive teams don't come for fun...they come to WIN..that's what brings FUN to them. Practicing 4 times a week is not neccessarily FUN when the coach pushes you to tears....but we sweat it out in hopes of attaining superb achievement.

We won gold today...funtimes..

Kelly, you are only speaking on behalf of the recreational teams.

4:37pm

Dude, you've got some twisted way at looking at fun. There are competitive teams out there, that practice 3-4 times per week, have fun at the same time; and are not pushed to tears during practice. IMHO, that is not the true spirit of sport. Sounds like you hate what you are doing. If you only have fun by winning a $3 dollar medal ($3 in Montreal...value goes up...they are nicer. LOL), then you need to evaluate what team sport is all about. I sure hope you're not a soccer mom or dad. Grow up!

As long as everyone is competing in the same type of boat, it’s a competition. Even the top teams were able to prove their hard work this weekend.

I had a great time and hope to race in Montreal again next year. The weather was great. There was a ton to see and do. There was non-stop entertainment for the crowd. The times were posted quickly and clearly. The Brest Cancer Paddlers got good attention. The volunteers were great at preparing the boats and removing the water. The races were called in 3 languages. There was water and food on hand. The people at the first aid booth were great!

The positives out weight the negatives by a whole lot!

Paddlegirl..what is wrong with wanting to win!?! How can you justify it being twisted? Many athletes train HARD to win..and I can guarantee you that throughout the whole training process, there are moments of negativity, but the promise of reward keeps motivations going. I know this is a extremely intense view of competition but that's the mentality I've adopted and a select few will agree with me if they want it bad enough.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labour. I push it all the way so that our team can excel. I trust that all members do that. As a captain, I admire that drive. That's the fine line between super competition and casual.

We are getting too spoiled over here. There is bitter complaining after virtually every festival! I recommend you continue to train hard but understand in advance that not all of the conditions are going to happen exactly the way you want. You can't always have perfection.

I heard English, French, Mandarin and Cantonese over the loud speakers, almost blew my mind.

My friend called me and told me that Typhoon was selling their one piece CF paddles..SO NICE...I should have jumped at it, but they only had 3!

I side with those who say you guys are a bunch of cry babies. Too many of you on this forum are negative about EVERYTHING! It is NEVER as bad as you sucks make it out to be. As one of the complainers mentioned (in justifying his complaints), this is an open forum and people should be allowed to complain. Fair enough. I'm complaining about all of you losers who complain. Get a life.

Go back to your planet Alf.
Why don't you TUNE out of the topics if it doesn't suit your fancy?

There are many people who are willing to join in on the complaints but there are you people who bash us complainers. If you want to inject some optimism in the threads, then start a new topic discussing other things! You achieve nothing by bashing the ones who talk negative about regattas.

You're being just as negative when you guys blast us. We're all here to discuss dragon boat here. This is not supposed to be a battle.

l'ours d'erable

people are entitled to say what they want.
live with that and don't get so upset when you hear something that you do not agree with.
fairness is important, we pay for fairness and not for 2 sets of boats with weight differences.
most of us probably don't expect the festival to buy another boat, those things are expensive, but hold the suppliers accountable for their product and maybe have some support to fix the boat on site?

We pay for these festivals and expect them to be fair or else why even race.

you want recreational, race in unfair boats down unfair lanes and call that competition? fine...there are apparently many festivals that offer that now-a-days.

Kelly - ever paddle in asia? i have and the boats were fantastic. Even if they sucked, what does that have to do with dewanding quality equipment when it can be had easily.

This sport is in jeopardy if it continues to put out sub-par events.

Doesn't matter if all the boats suck or if all the boats are great. The point is... make them all the same. If the nature of the competition is to rank teams based on times, then attempt to make everything else as equal as possible. If all the boats suck, the true nature of the teams will emerge. Next thing you know, a crappy team ends up in a better division than a team that should have otherwise been there. Of course, you see the resulting times in the final. 5 - 10 second gaps? That doesn't make sense. True, there are different types of teams out there. Some are more serious than others. Let them be.

To be fair to the Montreal organizers the volunteers were first rate and it is hard to blame Sunny completely for the crap boats they were provided with by some unnamed company. I just hope they are fixed for next year and that races are more fairly run. I find it strange that my team lost to Bytown by less than half a second twice in two seperate heats but in the Finals we ended up in D and them in the A final. Somehow I suspect we did our second to last race in the heavier boats and they in the lighter boats. I could be wrong about this but detest thru experience the whole mess of two sets of boats being used and the confusion this causes with times. Yes we dragonboaters can be demanding and complain allot but for our money our expectations deserve to be high especially for the top level races. For the time and work some of us put in to train we just want to be on the same playing field when we race. Peace

Toronto Dude, I concur.
It's not like we participate in many regattas because it's quite costly. We all bust our butts for 3 or more regattas a season as opposed to a basketball league or something. So when we do compete, it's important that everything is equal or else we feel bitter since our efforts to train for the regatta were in vain.

There could easily have been two sets of boats run in the semi heats, and it still would have been fair had the semis been set up like they are at most other festivals.

e.g.
Heat 1: 1 12 13 24 25 31
Heat 2: 2 11 14 23 26 32
Heat 3: 3 10 15 22 27 33
Heat 4: 4 9 16 21 28 34
Heat 5: 5 8 17 20 29 35
Heat 6: 6 7 18 19 30 36

Then, the winner of each heat goes to A; 2nd place to B etc. Alternately, race 2 on Saturday could have been head-to-head quarter-finals. The problems come when you try to compare times between heats. Never mind different boats - conditions change, and timing between races isn't super-consistent.

This would have avoided many of the delays (except when seats broke). Head-to-head is the best way. That said, a team that loses first thing in the morning can win a heat later in the day (*cough*Mofos*cough) as their paddlers recover from hangovers.

Nah the Mofos weren't recovering from their hangovers, they were just getting JUICED up after lunch

It would appear that the heats on Sunday morning were seeded based on the teams best time from Saturday. Which would make sense if Sunday was to be semi-finals so that there would be two semi-final heats for each grouping (A/B, C/D etc) with the division final seedings based on either top three places for each heat going to the upper division and the last three places going to the lower division (would have negated the boat issue as long as each heat used the same type of boat), or you could have the top 6 times from both semi heats go to the upper division and the bottom 6 to the lower division, in which case both heats need the same boats (which is why the boats in the final heat on Sunday had to change boats so they would have the same boats as the first heat of that semi). Unfortunately it would appear that the organizers seeded the finals based on times from Sundays heats regardless of what which semi you were in so that teams that were in A/B semis ended up in C etc. This leads one to ask what was the point of Saturday's races? Fortunately everyone that ended up in the A final came from the top 12 of Saturday's races and from what should have been the A/B semis on Sunday. Unfortunately 2 teams that should have been in the B final got bumped back to C, two from C went up to B, one from C went to E and one from F went to D.

Oh and Toronto Dude, the only teams that were within a 1/2 sec of Bytown in the heats on Saturday ended up in either A or B final. The closest any of the D final teams came is 4 secs behind Bytown's best which was 3rd fastest for the day. With a few exceptions, the finals had the teams that deserved to be there based on the whole festival's results so Toronto Dude, if you want to be at the top don't blame the boats, just paddle harder.

In race 17, Bytown only beat Jetstart (who eventually ended up in D) by less than a second but they did look oddly flat in that race.

What gives? Long drive from Ottawa? Friday night revelry?

Hey Seat 5
Toronto Dude couldn't be from Jet Start because he says his team lost to Bytown in 2 heats by less than 1/2 a sec. Jetstart was closer to a second behind Bytown in the first heat and more like 4 secs in the second. Of course all that matters from Saturday was that you made the top 42 to get into premier division on Sunday as all 42 teams had a shot on making A div based on time in the first race. I would say that looking at the times of the sunday heat and final that most people ended up in the division they should have. Of course with teams that are so closely matched you will always have teams that post a time in the final that beats teams in the divison above. Jetstart still ended up 3 secs behind Bytown.
Its all about consistency. If you would rather come in the bottom of A div than the top of B div, then you better have your best race in the semi to get you there. If DCH Exp had had a little better semi and not finished 9th over all, they could have made the A final and their time would give them a silver. The top 12 boats were all very close.

The Saturday races were still important. Sunday heats were based on your Saturday times. ie The top 6 times from Saturday were all in the same Sunday morning heat. It's good to be in a heat with fast teams. You will most likely be slower if you are in a heat full of slow boats

A lot of what goes on in Montreal has to do with water depth. Because the course is so shallow, boats tend to stay very close to each other. Teams that could blow away competitors by a boat length in deeper water wind up winning by only a fraction of a second. It's not even necessary to ride wash, it just happens.

So whoever said that you want to be with fast boats for your semi is totally accurate.

In regards to the different types of boats

One set of boats had dark wood benches with numbers on them and what appears to be a verticle support under each bench.

The second set of boats had light wood benches and often no vertical support

Is the correct?
Would the lighter wood bench boats be the faster of the two?

You almost made me blow a snot bubble.

Now THAT'S funny.