9/11 is coming around the corner, haven't seen a list of expected teams but from the GWN website, it looks like it'll be another sold out event. Given what we've seen this year, what are your predictions for who will come out on top?

Any idea what teams are registered, or where we can get a team list?

Mofos will make Final A

That's what I want to hear.
Now you've really motivated me, to hand them some whoop ass.

Riptide, did you not get enough bruises from your first bashing? Or is it time for more already?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=135730&messageid=1123706498&lp=1124298981

Stay humble, paddle hard and stop stirring up trouble.

Hey whats wrong with Riptide making A finals at GWN? With a lot of teams off on summer vacation Riptide is still busting their asses practicing

This has gotten silly before it even got started.

Let's see a team list before we start making predictions. Even then, make sure the list is right before first! (hello Port Dover thread)

As for predictions, remmeber that only 5 teams make the A final at GWN. Teams like Mofo's and Riptide, good as they may be, are going to have a tough time of it if the regular "A" division crowd shows up. Even worse if MCC/SRS or strong out of province teams come to play.

But hey, dare to dream.


One other thing:

"Riptide is still busting their asses practicing"

And you know this because...

...you're on Riptide. Stop self-promoting, it looks bad.

With only 5 boats per division the up and coming teams are not ready to displace the old guard from the A final. I expect to see one or two squeak into the A consolation for the first time and with all the hype I'm curious to see which of these up and coming teams if any is a real contender.

You know that some of the NACCC teams will be at GWN? At least five or six? You think they stopped practicing?

who would you condier up and coming? just curious

Can we stop calling this 911, please. It's not called this, so why keep calling it 911.

Back to the topic at hand, the top Montreal crews will not be attending as they have their own provincial CC race-offs a week before or after, I think, so there may be more room at the top than usual.

The Fall Classic

Even if Mtl. doesn't attend, I agree with a previous poster, there are still only five teams in the final. I'm sure there will be at least 5 of the top 12 teams at GWN. As for the other crews you are talking about making the A Final, their best be is A consolation.

Hey Anonandon, I thought I trademarked all possible shortforms of my handle -- don't you go trying to impersonate me!

Some of us fondly remember the 911 years -- when we were fit and fast --- uh, okay, so it was when the love handles only spilled an inch over our far-too-tight spandex and 'fast' was a 2:15 500. But for us, it'll may never be GWN.

[And just think, at 2:15, RipTide and Mofos would ALMOST make it into the A final! Too bad they're ten years too late.... )

Up and comers are teams like SCC dragons, MOFOS, GM Driving Force, St. Robert Clintar Wave Cutters, UofT UC Water Dragons, Shogun Warriors, The Saints, Riptide, etc

2:15 at GWN is now good enough for C Consolation division!

"Even if Mtl. doesn't attend, I agree with a previous poster, there are still only five teams in the final. I'm sure there will be at least 5 of the top 12 teams at GWN. As for the other crews you are talking about making the A Final, their best be is A consolation."

There will be some VERY good teams in the A Consolation Final, on the outside looking in. It's what happens when there are so many good teams out there, but so hard to crack the Top 5 or 6. Look for at least one "outlier" in the Top five who got an easy ride in Lane 1, and at least one bona fide challenger who sucks the reverse jet-stream of Lane 5 and winds up in the consol.

(can't help but think of teams in recent years like PDBC and Piranhas, who got slammed by the brutal Lane 5/6 currents, and EDBC who got the easy ride to the final only to get destroyed later)

Race hard and cross your fingers.

it was the mysterious, unspoken timing adjustment made that bumped them down a seed in the semi. oh well..who knows. that's racing.

its funny how people refer to some teams as "up and comers" in more than a few threads. To me "up and coming" would refer to a team that has been raising their game over the last few seasons and are threats to do some real damage. Three years ago I would have called Tempest an "up and coming" team.

Teams like wave cutters, riptide, and shogun have been good b level teams for a good while (4 or 5 years now, perhaps more). I question whether these teams will ever be "A" level teams, just because of fundamental team philosophy and make-up (you can't purge the roster of a good majority of a crew that's been together for a long time).

BUt still, they're not "up and coming" teams - likely teams that are happy just to compete.

So who would people consider up and coming then? At this point I am not sure that anyone is on the verge of stepping into the top group at the moment who isn't already there. Love'em, or hate'em, the MOFOS are probably the closest to this and I think even they would readily acknowledge that there is still a sizable gap to be bridged and a whole new level of year round Dragon Boating specific training required to do so.

That said, I don't think you need to be knocking on "A" Champs to be up and coming. Who are the teams who have been steadilly working their way up the divisions over the last few years? Anyone who can do that while teams are all training harder and smarter is saying something.

For the poster earlier mentioning about not calling the regatta "911" - it has nothing to do with being on September 11th, it has to do with the past history of the regatta. Back in the mid 90's when the regatta was 1st run it was called the 911 Regatta as the original participants were members of the Emergency Services (Police, Fire, Ambulance) hence, the "911" name of the regatta. Eventually it was changed to the Great White North Dragon Boat Challenge.

...Class dismissed.

Is Mofo the best team in Ontario?

If they paddled as well as they hype themselves up they might be. However Hype does not make you fast on the water

Riptide is the best team by far in Ontario!

Who's "far"? Never heard of him.

Telus from Montreal will be attending GWN.

...in the end it's basically all going to boil down to who gets the best lane at Ontario Place. In the words of Mike Kerkmann himself to the 2006 CCWC Organizing Committee several weeks ago:

"The current course design, as indicated in TRCA documents, slopes from 2.5m in lane 1 to 4.5m in lane 6. This is no better than the current sloping watercourse at Ontario Place where lane 5 (Lakeshore side) is a consistent loser and 1 (OP side) is the express lane. Of course this is fine for a community event where the stakes are not so high. Similar lane bias conditions exist on the Centre Island regatta course but, again, this venue hosts a community-cultural festival event, not a world level sport event.

If dragon boat races are held on this new course the finish order would consistently be 6-5-4-3-2-1 with comparable crews on the water. It is the nature of the beast. You cannot compare dragon boat to rowing or canoeing when discussing loaded hull displacement, drag and bottom effects."

So, if you're happy racing at a rinky dink 'community' race like 911, the current Ontario Place course is fine, but you sure as hell can't expect the best teams win with so much lane bias. 911, money well spent - NOT! It's actually a joke and a rip-off.

Good teams find a way to win!

You're just allowing yourself to get pyched out!

Train harder!

Shut up and paddle!

Whiners, all of you, whiners!



No, I don't really believe this, but I thought I would beat some REAL chowderhead to the punch.

"So, if you're happy racing at a rinky dink 'community' race like 911, the current Ontario Place course is fine, but you sure as hell can't expect the best teams win with so much lane bias. 911, money well spent - NOT! It's actually a joke and a rip-off."

Little birdy you may want to preface your comments with a "IMHO".

Are you saying that Sudbury didn't deserve to win last year? How about Mayfair the year before? Any MCC a few years back? Have you even seen an "A" Final at GWN? If that is your opinion of rinky dink, then you have certainly been spoiled by some mighty fine racing. I would love to hear about what races I should go to to avoid the rinky dink, in your opinion.

Unlike other festivals here in Toronto, GWN does not proclaim the GWN Dragon Boat Challenge to be a grand international event. It is what it proclaims to be a fun challenge, that offers competitive racing at all levels. Money well spent. HELL yes.

Rinky dink though it may be, GWN is still the best game in town (except maybe the NACCC, but I digress...). Plenty of teams concentrate all season in an effort to peak for 911, so by that measure, it has an undeniable appeal. I say you roll the dice and hope for the best.

Anyhow, I was intrigued by the idea of "Up and Coming" teams so I scanned last year's Straight and Power rankings and compared them to the latest version of the True Rankings to see if there were any teams set to make the Big Leap (say into A or A-consolation).

Without a complete list of competitors, it's tough to say. I think Mofos have a fair shot at A-consolation and Telus might sqeak into A if they show up with the same crew as at the MIDBF.

And that's about it. Looks like almost everyone else is treading water, so to speak.

Does anyone know if SCC or the Chiros are coming back south for GWN?

I agree...hell ya
I think more than one Montreal team is going, can anyone confirm this?

If anyone bothered to go to the meetings then you would know that the course itself takes up the outside 80-100 meters or so of a 135 meter wide newly redesigned area. At least it did from the last design I saw.

This would practically put the entire course farther out from shore than the current course GWN runs on for 911. I thought they were dredging as well on top of that?

Everyone has their own agenda.

"the other" Sudbury Canoe Club team could very well get into A consolation

Alliance
Verdun Express
Wong's Immortals
TELUS Mobility Phoenixes

I love how the major Montreal teams are only sending their "A" team to one event, and their "B" to another. Allows from some nice stacking opportunities.

Let's all play "Count the Slayers" !

heh heh heh, FLAME ON!

I only know of one Slayer on Immortal and no Adrnalien people on Express as of yet.

Glad Telus is going. Their ladies are hot!

Could it be that some people take the GWN results too seriously? I'd be glad to race the best that the WOngs can assemble for the event. Who cares which Wongs team they are usually on?

Heck, it would be fun to have a race at the end of the day with made-up crews. We could start at lunch time making up crew lists then have one great big race off at tne end.

If everyone put their name on the back of their race shirts, it would help us out-of-towners who frequent the forum to figure out who all the famous GTA people are.

See you at Ontario Place.

Wow..w I can't believe that the WOngs make such a stir. Who cares! even if the other B team takes on some A it doesn't mean they are going to win...experienced paddlers know that winning takes an entire team not just a few different paddlers. So who cares! Move on. GWN has so much to offer all team attending.

Can anyone give me the layout of GWN? Any problems to beware of?

Good luck to everyone attending

I heard Slayers saying they will paddle under the name IMMORTALS!!!!

You're an ass flame.

Don't hold your breath to see a lot of extra paddlers. The big Montreal clubs run their so called 'B' teams as competitive crews in their own right. If the schedule says Express and Immortals that's what you'll get, barring injuries. They'll be training hard for the event.

Besides, GWN falls between Welland and the Eastern race off two weeks later, not the best time for another road trip.

True, but it is a good time for a preperation race.

In all due respect...course at Ontario Place sucks.GWN should move its venue to Welland...what a great site.Too many seem to want to kiss Kerkmans butt and not tell it like it is.Would best be run 3-4 boats per heat.Size of Fesival has outgrown the location.

That makes no sense. Why not move every festival around town to Welland and rename all of them to the Welland Dragon Boat Festival?

There is a Welland race, and not that many teams go.

We reserve the right to demand perfection and then not go when it is offered OK. Oh, and yes we get to bitch and complain about it as well. Free country ppphhhhsssssttt

GWN 911 is at ontario place just as The island is at the island. They are in central Toronto (or close to it) and that is very convinient for a lot of teams and spectators

My crew has won GWN and lost GWN "because of lanes".
I really don't care. It's the last dragonboat festival of the year for quite a few people, a chance to celebrate everything that was fun during the year and finally get enough guts to ask that girl for a phone number.
If you want a good lane in a final, make sure you are the fastest crew in that final. Bitch and bitch about lanes, yet hardly anyone shows up in Welland or Stouffville.
It also seems that most crews don't care about the lanes that much because the festival keeps selling out, year after year.

"My crew has won GWN and lost GWN "because of lanes".
I really don't care."

yeah, right.

I agree with almost everything else you said there, but that one line there is pure B.S. You won and lost because of lanes, and don't care. Dumbest thing you have ever said.

"I heard Slayers saying they will paddle under the name IMMORTALS!!!!"
You obviously don't know the Immortals. They define themselves as a fun group of people ...I have raced against them and without a doubt would never remove a team member to sub in another.

You are clueless !

Agreed. Immortals have a strong and solid crew. We race them all the time and have a very healthy respect for them.

I don't care. I used to care, but it's been few years now that I've realised that I enjoy dragonboat (and life) much more if I stop obsessing over things that I cannot directly influence.
The lanes at GWN? I really don't care. I want to win it again, but if a crappy time in a heat puts us in crappy lane in a final, it's our own fault. Not lanes' fault.
This way I don't go through stuff like
"OH MY GOD ONLY 13 races had winners out of lane 7, and 15 had winners out of lane 9 and we got lane 7. WE'LL NEVER WIN, OMG OMG OMG OMG"

Was perhaps a bit harsh. Glad you have such a zen perspective, but if you draw lane 5 as a heat then you're dead as a door knob before it's even begun. The top 20 at GWN are often separated by less than 2 seconds, top to bottom. Lane 5 easily good for that and then some.

You're certain you wouldn't care about that? Maybe you wouldn't. If so, good for you.

i think adjusting qualifying so that if you get lane 5 you also get lane 1 (or 2 and 4, or 3 and 3) is the fairest thing they could do... short of turning it into a two-lane race course. last year the seeded teams did their qualifying in lanes 2 and 4. so if you draw lane 5 for your 3rd heat (the semi final) you're the slowest qualifier in that heat. it's not perfect, but it's much fairer than it used to be.

I agree that you're pretty much done, if you want to be done. Crews have qualified from lane 5 before.
Another thing people keep forgetting is that the race course is probably going to be the worst ever. Hot summer, lots of weeds and not enough water in the Lake.
I'll get my real racing fix in Welland this weekend and save GWN for a fun weekend, with low expectations.

"I agree that you're pretty much done, if you want to be done. Crews have qualified from lane 5 before. "

Who? When?

Water Rat, just when you start to sound reasonable you blow it.

I think Slayers or Scotia Beach qualified or won in lane 5.

Scotia Beach came in 2nd from Lane 5, if I remember correctly.

Okay, but that was when there was also a Lane 6.

Lane 5 is now the farthest outside lane. Not absolutely insurmountable, granted, but when crews are separated by fractions it's bad enough.

Good luck Rat. Wishing you a happy Lane 5 experience, tough guy.

IIRC, Monks/Hanalei did really well from lane 5. I could be wrong though. Anyways, I don't really care either way. If a chance of getting lane 5 is such a burden on your soul, just don't come to the festival. Why are you putting yourself through weeks of agonizing about it? Just come, watch some races, have a beer and go home.

As for me, they're probably going to do the same thing they did last year with crew seeding or whatever, so my first race will be out of lane 2.

water rat: "Anyways, I don't really care either way. If a chance of getting lane 5 is such a burden on your soul, just don't come to the festival. Why are you putting yourself through weeks of agonizing about it? Just come, watch some races, have a beer and go home. "


word on, brotha...

SCC Chiros will be at GWN this year.

A lot of really strong teams will not be there this year.

How do you know this if the teams list has not been posted?

OBVIOUSLY 'cos he/she knows a lot of really strong teams.

If you really want to know the deal about Lanes 4 & 5, might I suggest a Nautical Map? A friend of mine sails regularly and was kind enough to lend me his map last year. Very interesting stuff about where the sand bar is, depth, etc in the channel by Ontario Place. Helped my team know how to prepare in case we got that lane (which we did) and we were able to kick it into overdrive right at the correct spot (which we did) helping us place very well in the semi's and get us a better lane for the A final. I wish all of you good luck this year - we'll be watching from afar the results.

You can ask someone who sails/owns a yacht, or get maps here:
http://www.fedpubs.com/mpchrt/charts/ontario1.htm#2085

Telus will make FINAL A this year at GWN

Which Telus? The one that was in Welland? LOL.

I guess i made a good call :)_~~~~~~~~~~~

If Telus makes A Final the I can assume that it is a weak field?

Telus was 13th at NACCC...I will eat my shorts if they make A final.

Hope you wash them first.

GWN schedule will be posted on Tuesday

watch out for WRCC A

Last big event of the season in Ontario, I imagine a lot of people are sad another summer is gone

Where do we pick up race kits?

Your captain would have received an email, teams can pick up race kits at the GWN trailer at Outer Harbour practice facilities

Watch out for the mystery team....absolutely stacked to blow everyone outta the h20!

Watch out for the mystery team....absolutely stacked to blow everyone outta the h20!

We already know about Mojos!

schedule's up!
heat predictions please.

Geez, here we go..

Lane 4 is where most of the "big guns" will be setting their first time.
This seems unnecessary since with 25 heats they could have easily given all the "top" teams the same lane.


Some possible A/B Candidates:

Lane Team
1 Toronto Area Dragons (TAD)
2 5.10 Dragons
2 BOD Squad
2 Driving Force
2 Hanalei (Ont. Traffic Tickets)
2 JetStart (Air Canada/ITW)
2 MOFOs
2 RBC Royal Mojos
2 Sudbury Canoe Club Dragons
2 The Blades
2 WRCC Jr's
4 Hammerheads
4 Mayfair Predators
4 Para Huti Huti
4 SCC Team Chiropractic
4 Telus Mobility Phoenixes
4 TransAmerica Life BIG FISH
4 Verdun D.B.C. - Express
4 West Rouge Canoe Club
4 Wong's DBC Immortal Dragons
5 Alliance Evolution D.B.C.

Okay, my bad. Most teams that race in Lane 2 in the first heat get lane 4 in the second heat and vice versa.

Good job, GWN.

Where's the schedule?

http://www.dragon-boat.com/sunday%20scheduled.htm

Let the predictions begin...

Not too many typical A-ranked crews in this one. Seems Welland and the upcoming Quebec Cup have depleted the field.

Hammerheads and Mayfair lead a thin field.

These heats should be the most fun to watch (maybe):

6-SCC vs. Saints
10-Sinai vs. Telus vs. Shogun
14-GM vs. Para Huti vs. Wave Cutters
16-WRCC Jrs vs. GWN Women

44-Wave Cutters vs. Hammerheads vs. Mayfair Warriors vs. GM
48-WRCC Jrs vs. Chiros
50-WRCC vs. Hanalei

Overall, the heats seem pretty solidly seeded with pretty much all of the, um, "good" teams running lanes 2-4.

Game on!

There is a good trend developing among dragon boat teams. It seems if you charge too much or the race course is inferior the teams will not come.

I think that the teams missing from GWN this year have more to do with the scheduling of the NACCC, and the upcoming race in Montreal as another person has already stated.

Teams are more concerned with racing for Club Crew sanctions than racing at the traditional end-of-season finale.

Still more than 100 teams. That's plenty.

FYI...WRCC JR's will actually be primarily juniors with a few of our "A" boat paddlers and the second West Rouge Boat will be our "B" team that hopes to make the C/D Division.

Only 5 Open teams? What, are you guys saving yourselves for your mixed heats? Pffft!

The ladies have 18 entries! Way to go girls!

MCC has an entry.Thats where I am placing my bets.

Under what name?

A Final:

Mayfair
SCC
Hanalei
HH
Verdun

Big Fish might squeak through.

verdun is the B team - A stays in Montreal for Quebce Cup preps

Then replace Verdun with BF.

Hey 2:16, SCC are the Chiros, not the Dragons. Let's get this right. The dragons will probably be in "B" division and the Chiros will win again.

"and the chiros will win again" LOL

let's face it, the chiros have been no where next to teams like scotia, wongs and mayfair all summer...good crew yes... do they have what it takes to repeat at GWN (which by the way historically has rarely happened) I don't think so...but hey, prove me wrong team chiro

The hybrid Mayfair/GWN Men's Team/GWN employees/Jim's buddies team will win as they have done all season. Be nice to see a Mayfair team back on the water sometime...

Remember a couple of years ago when the MCC mixed team (10 women)beat the GWN men's team? Damn I wish they were entered again.

finally someone calling out "Mayfair".

Farintosh has been developing paddlers from scratch from day one, and for WCCC he recruited some strong paddlers who helped Mayfair to their best season yet. I paddle flatwater with and against some of these guys. I know who they are.

But that's perfectly fine to me. They wanted a result, they incorporated these people into their crews and they came and trained..AS A CREW. They were not last minute add-ons, they practiced regularly.

You guys criticized them for never being able to win a festival (GWN 2003 I believe was their first major grand championships) and now that they're successful, you're jealous of the connections they have. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it works. You go for the best people possible, incorporate them into your program and you're good to go.

I'm not a big Mayfair supporter by any means and have had issues in the past with them- but I do respect their program.

I didn't say Jim hasn't develop good paddlers from scratch -- or that the present Mayfair team doesn't train as a crew - there is no question the team has worked hard and deserved what they have accomplished this season.

My observation is just that - an observation that the Mayfair of 2005 is a hybrid crew from various paddling backgrounds and clubs - which is fine -- perhaps that's the way it should be.

I happen to be a fan of the scrappy underdog Mayfair and enjoyed watching them race.

Don't use my comments as a springboard to develop an argument that no one is having.

So you condone their Frankenroster method to winning?

Yeah, cheers to them for "developing paddlers from scratch" and then going with a gutted crew full of GWN Senior ringers.

I wonder who they will drop in favour of more ringers next year? They can change how many bodies, four or six?

Hey Mayfair paddlers, whoever is left, you are NEXT.

"The hybrid Mayfair/GWN Men's Team/GWN employees/Jim's buddies team will win as they have done all season. Be nice to see a Mayfair team back on the water sometime... "

That "super team" has raced for WCCC sanctions twice, once in Sudbury and once in Welland. They won 0 (zero) 500m races and 1 (one) 200m. The 200m distance was new for Welland, they raced 250m in Sudbury. So they are North American Champions and they get to represent Canada at WCCC without actually winning a 500m race when it counted.

Mayfair has had a group of highly dedicated, fit people for years now and their coaching staff has not been able to teach them how to paddle.

I am one of the captains and vetrans of Mayfair. I would like to clarify that we have raced all season, and in prior years, with our permanent roster. We did not bring paddlers in to win specific events. If you have any further questions regarding our team, please feel free to e-mail me directly.

kcrandell2000@yahoo.com

As a former mayfair paddler -- this whole thread is dis-heartening. Mayfair has been and will always be the classiest and best coached team in the province - I would argue that with anyone. They have a level of consistency in a sport that is known for lack of it and their paddlers are dedicated to the team or they don't paddle. There are no ringers on the Mayfair crew -- only dedicated talented paddlers.

Mayfair has been fortunate enough to expand their roster beyond the confines of the health club members -- and the simple reality is that to field a dedicated team you need dedicated people and when you are pulling from a small pool of people sometimes that not possible. I am glad Mayfair has made the decisions it has and adapted and evolved instead of collapsing in dissarray like so many teams do when faced with challenges.

The simple truths are - the Mayfair crew that trains together is the crew that races together, Jim Farintosh has developed some of the best paddlers on any crew and continues to do so, and there is no hand-picking -- if you want to paddle you train earn your spot as a Mayfair Predator.

Good luck this weekend Mayfair

Mayfair: " thou dost protest too much "

Is there some truth to these allegations?

Hardly a protest, anon. I am just setting the record straight based on the facts.

Especially this year. Hmmm....

which came first?

When did Mayfair stepped into the elite class?

1. when the original Mayfair members became elite paddlers
2. The recruitment of elite paddlers into Mayfair.

How many of the original predators are still on the roster?

I've followed Mayfair for the past number of years and I can attest that their year-to-year roster has been, and continues to be, as consistent or perhaps more consistent then any other tier one club team.

I can understand resentment from some quarters towards Mayfair - successful winning teams are often subject petty criticism. But please...let's try and be fair and objective here.

Hey, I wasn't starting an argument with you. I was commenting on the poster above me who said Mayfair was being "called out". Are we cool?

Why would you "follow" Mayfair unless you're on the team. Anyway, although there are lots of great people on the crew, I wouldn't call them the classiest en masse.
I met a Mayfair paddler outside of the sport recently and she was one of the most arrogant and rude people I could imagine. She didn't know I was also a paddler but I was amazed as she went on about how her crew kicks everyone's butts and then proceded to slag "C" and "D" division crews. When someone mentioned they had a friend on a particular crew she laughed and said, "Oh yeah, that crew is sh*t".
She is "...one of the vetrans of Mayfair".

Jim's performance in Sudbury surely was a class act!!!

what does that mean?

That means that his performance in Sudbury was a class act.
Don't tell me you missed John's performance after Mayfair lost to PDBC?

Re: rude Mayfair girl

You were likely trying to pick her up and impress her and she found you creepy. You likely didn't take the hint and she had to tell you to get lost.

That crap has no relevence to paddleing.

Loser.

"Let it run"..........first the IMP's get trashed because they are a good team, then SRS/MCC, then Scotia Rouge with Kevin and Karen, Wongs, now Mayfair. Trash em' all you want people, they are good teams. Good teams always get hit on.

"She didn't know I was also a paddler but I was amazed as she went on about how her crew kicks everyone's butts"

Five words:
X Paddling Collective Scotia Rouge

Or you can just use two words: Frenchman's Bay

You have a vivid imagination. Someone mentions a rude Mayfair paddler and you assume they were trying to pick her up but were rejected? Wow, A+ for creative writing.

Hey Anonymous 2:19:

Not only did the Mayfair girl find you to be "creepy" but she was also turned off by your severe case of Halitosis.

I would like to write a few points, then get trashed by anon. posters....

Of the 23 rostered paddlers on Mayfair the average number of years with the team is 4.32 years. The team is nine years old.
There are 10 paddlers that have been with the team 5 years or longer. There are 5 original members.

In addition there are seven Mayfair members that have paddled at the DB World Championship's that have never paddled flat-water - EVER - and have paddled for various teams at the World's. Senior men (GWN and TCBA)/ senior woman (TCBA & GWN)/ mixed TCBA & GWN / premier woman TCBA.

We have four members who have paddled flat-water with an average age of 52+ yrs old, and been on the team an average of 2 yrs.

Mayfair continues to develop paddlers and attracting talent from the paddling community as large.

See you at Ontario Place.

Andrew
Captain Mayfair Predators

I don't care if Mayfair (or X-Pads or Scotia or the Imps or whatever) has zombie robot flatwater PPs from the year 2025 on their boat. Good for them!

Why shouldn't the best team win? I don't get it.

If you guys just stuck to your knitting maybe you could beat them on your own terms.

Between this and the DBC hoohaw in the Stratford thread, today's been quite a downer.

Cripes!

Sadly, our ZRFWPs were recalled by the manufacturer (Sirius Cybernetics) due to a tendency to explode and catch fire during 2000m races. Mayfair must have shelled out for a higher end model.

But since our chances of victory have evaporated I can only look forward to the sunny 25 degree weather they've been forecasting for the weekend, plenty of eye candy, and the inevitable frosty drinks. Cheer up seat#5, the glass is half full.

Mayfair.....who really cares.
A bunch of nobodies and crappy coaches.

The average age on Mayfair is 52? Holy Crap! There's hope for me!

Whoa. I knew that Mayfair was an older team, but average age of 52 is beyond what I imagined. If they're winning at this age over us younguns they deserve to win.

"We have FOUR members who have paddled flat-water with an average age of 52+ yrs old, and been on the team an average of 2 yrs."

he said the 4 flat water paddlers had an average age of 52, not the whole team.

Re: GWN Predictions (September 10-11, 2005) September 7 2005, 2:54 PM


That means that his performance in Sudbury was a class act.
Don't tell me you missed John's performance after Mayfair lost to PDBC?




"yeah man, I missed it, tell us plz."

You guys are complaining about a bunch of has-been flatwater paddlers
and fatties that are better than you. Guess this is why Dragon Boating attracts the worst.

it could be all the good crews are taking turns bashing each other. something to ponder on.

This type of flaming and pointless banter is what brings down many sports and what could be a useful and positive forum.
Many posters are correct. Good teams always get flamed b/c they are too good. I have been in the sport and paddled for many teams, yes there are arrogant paddlers but as a whole I have yet to meet an entire team of egomaniacs. So what? There is one bad apple and that automatically makes the team bad paddlers? Even so, if there is one arrogant paddler, the easiest way to shut them up is to take it on the water and beat them. That's what happened to so called Philly team which has amounted to nothing this year. And frankly, I met them in Welland this year, I saw no such arrogance that people love to flame about. As for Mayfair, the past 5 years I have raced, these paddlers (whoever they may be) have always been top notch paddlers. Recognize them for their talent and efforts on the water and ignore the rest. Dragon boat is a sport that takes dedication and teamwork. One paddler does not make a team... it can however BREAK a team. So let's get some constructive posts in here and quit this annoying flaming of some talented teams. Knowing this is probably too idealistic and to answer any questions, I am not on Mayfair. I am in no way affiliated with them. I just admire a good team when I see them. Would I like to paddle for them, heck yeah...
So please, I plead that we not lower the sport and teams down to a classless level.

Hear, hear! Well said!

I do not get it. DBers seem to object to anybody and anything that improves teams. Need new paddlers so you get the best people you know ? Thats recruting and stacking! Shame! My team only starts with fat couch potatoes and trains them from scatch , I would never ask the fit guy in the gym to paddle for us let alone somebody who can paddle! Lets ban anybody that has experience racing in canoes or kayaks just because they are too good ,it is not fair!
Jeez , what a bunch of whining sore loosers. It is sport , it is racing , it is teams. Every team in every sport in the world get the best atheletes they can.A few win , most do not. Get over it.

this is going back to an xpad discussion again

This thread was supposed to be about predictions but instead it degenerated into a bashing thread. For the record I have gotten to know several people on the Mayfair team and my experience with them is that they are a very nice bunch of people. I also predict that they will win GWN. See you all on the water this weekend!

Mayfair will do well at GWN and I'm sure will end up in the best lanes from the get-go BUT MCC has an entry and they will absolutely kick some major butt.Junior Worlds,Worlds and CCA are done...they are now ready to come out and have some fun.There is no PP rule at GWN and they have s/thg to prove.

Is the MCC crew in the schedule missy or not. I have heard nothing but speculation. Realizing that almost everything on the forum is speculation but..... does anyone really know?

When you watch the team MCC paddle this weekend, as everyone will for about ten seconds....hmmmmm maybe five - remember you thought it was the real deal because of the forum dewellers who vent about every subject on earth without having any idea of whether there is any truth to the matter.

The 2PP rule has nothing to do with any dragon boat competition outside of the Club Crew World Championships.

MCC and supporters need to stop WHINING about this damn thing as if it is some huge barrier to them in the sport. It affects exactly ONE race every two years, that's all. You're free to dominate whatever other regatta you want to: TIDBRF, GWN, NACCC, Montreal, etc, etc. Just pony up the cash and go, but don't act so hard-done-by.

no one from Missy (MCC) is posting about pp or anything else to do with GWN.

"Supporters" always make the team they are supporting look bad, be it Mofos, Riptide, or MCC.

The worst thing you can do for any team is to take up their argument for them on the forum.

Supporters don't make a team look bad but they often end up drawing the flaming out to go on for even longer.

then again most of the so called "supporters" are actually the people trying to entice flames

"Paddlegirl" 5:34pm Aug 23rd

There seems to be two paddlegirl's now on the forum. Hmmm?

Oh well....there's so many "anonymous"....at least we'll fit in!

Are you paddle girls hot? post some pictures!

Dear Sept 8th @ 5:51pm.

I can only speak for myself, but yeah...of course I'm hot! As for posting pictures on a random forum for random anonymous irate dragonboat freaks; the thought is rather tempting if I was held hostage by a sharp steel weapon, induced with large amounts of alcohol/drugs, or if I was completely insane by way of reading too many dragonboat postings. Alas, I don't drink too much, hardly read the postings, and although the likelihood of someone holding a blade to my throat is possible, I hardly think they'd have me post pics on this forum...they'd have other things in mind! Anyway, I posted my cat on this forum a long time ago....that should be enough!

Nice try though.

Hot Paddlegirl

email me a photo!

Ok, you twisted my arm. Here's a photo of myself that I posted recently.

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/ugly-people-170.htm

paddlegirl

Whoah... dead sexy!

...not even close! Can't get on the link as I'm "restricted"....Thanks for being a "poser". I guess your life is real exciting!

Re: GWN Predictions (September 10-11, 2005) September 7 2005, 8:20 AM


"and the chiros will win again" LOL

let's face it, the chiros have been no where next to teams like scotia, wongs and mayfair all summer...good crew yes... do they have what it takes to repeat at GWN (which by the way historically has rarely happened) I don't think so...but hey, prove me wrong team chiro

Way to go Anon - LOL (Laugh out Loud back at you)

Dont you just love these predictions. The Chiros repeated the win - way to go! What a pleasure to watch that race. Does anyone remember 2 years ago when Mayfair snagged lane one for the final to win GWN. I wonder if the Chiros planned the same thing this year & if so, thats pretty good strategy by the coach. Hanalei - that was some finish in the semi to kick Mayfair to lane 4 for the final. I think the Chiros owe you BIG TIME for that one

so kudos to the Chiros. And for those who like to make predictions ... Ha Ha Ha

Chiros certainly did not plan to come 2nd in their semi, just look at the times 6/100ths difference between Hammerheads and Chiros! No way either team new who had won when they were crossing the line. Just pure dumb luck.

Can someone please explain what happened to Mayfair yesterday and where Hanalei came from to pull off a second place finish?!

Has Mayfair won a 500m this year??

why ??

Well Hanalei definitely set the stunner for the weekend by beating both Mayfair and Big Fish from Lane 3 in the A semi on Sunday while Mayfair and Big Fish had lanes 2 & 3 respectively. To top that they set the second and third fastest times of the weekend only for Sudbury to set a faster time from Lane 1 in the final. That semi was pure entertainment value so my hat goes off to Hanalei for the upset of the season.

upset ??

Yes well an upset, from the point of view that no one would have predicted Hanalei made up so much ground since Welland and beat Mayfair in the semi whom everyone expected to win GWN.

wasn't the same team that was at Wellend. A lot of the hired guys had the event off for good behavior I guess.

Yes, we were the same team that was at Welland.

Well judging by the 2:06 times many teams got faster from Welland on and did not peak for that event. Thanks to the Predator above for informing everyone it was the same Welland team. That way the forum dwellers can clear the rumour mill (almost)

For all the morons out there, different teams peak for different events, you cannot maintain a high performance level of training for an entire season. Here's a hint, all the top teams know this information. A number of paddlers from various teams went to the world's this year, part, if not a good portion of their focus would be on the world's. Then there was also race-offs for the world crew championships. Guess where the focus of these same people plus other teams would be? Ontario Place had hugh head winds this year, which is unusual, normally there are tailwinds. Top crews know about the unfavorable water conditions, this year the water was at least a foot lower which allowed for the weeds to grow up even more. Here's another hint why they go to events where they know what they are getting into - because they want to race, they will do the best with what they get. Most of all, these teams don't care what you think, most of the people know each other and respect each other........start chewing away at this one, I'm sure you will!

Hanalie and Hammerheads improved that much in two weeks ??
Guess some people really believe they know what paddling is all about.

Hey idiot,Mayfair has qualified for wccc,Hanalai is still going for a berth in Montreal...they are on the upside of peaking whereas Mayfair should be on the downside.

Who said anything about Mayfair....
If ANYBODY is going to use the results at GWN as any indication then they are seriously fooling themselves.
Take the same five crews to a course with deeper water and you'll end up with a different result. Go to Montreal and the result will be different again.

Sorry we are not going to Montreal for a berth. Not happening. Whoever got that info is misinformed. We are going to Stratford, then we will get together and plan for next year, try and find some people interested in joining the team next year with common goals and commitments and spend some time paddling Outrigger while mother nature is still nice to us in the fall. As for the "peaking at one event comment" yes that holds true for high level athletes, however Hanalei may only have 25% of the roster at this point really training that much or at that level at this time if we are lucky. Many in the crew paddled once or twice a week (we only paddle 2x week). We had a few people with back injuries in Welland as well so yes a team can improve that much in two weeks especially if many are untrained and still have paddling skills and timing issues to work out. We are not talking 20 athletes training 7 days a week here. If you look at the amount of training time spent by Mayfair, Big Fish and other A level crews this year this crew was not even close to that. We spent probably less time training as a crew than many B level teams in general.

I told you Chiros would repeat. They did plan a second in the semi cause they knew that was the only to win it. Their starts haven't been that good this year so they needed that perfect finish. Kudos SCC Chiros. Just imagine what kind of racing we would oh had if all lanes were the same.

Chiro's. Yeah, they would have lost.

Hanalie....so you think we should applaude you more the fact you trained twice a week like most teams.

but how much training did you actually do with all your small boats work?

Surely more than 2 per week

Only 25% of the people have small boats (OCs) on the team and of those I would say only five paddled regularly. So that is not a large amount. There are no flatwater paddlers on this team or marathoners either so let's not go there. We are not looking for any pats on the back and we never have. We just do our thing, have fun, respect the competition and come to race hard.

Nicely done Hanalei. I don't know what you all did to get there, but the result speaks for itself. As for Mayfair, I don't intend any disrespect. Clearly they're a top team and will continue to be. I was simply curious if there was anything in particular that lead to their result this past weekend. I had expected them to do better.

You expected Mayfair to do better ??

wierd.
mayfair places the top time in both morning and afternoon on the saturday.
then misses lane two by coming second which puts them into lane four.
and, you think they had a bad weekend ?
I guess the mofo's had a disaster then !!

I agree it is harsh to say Mayfair had a bad weekend. I guess it all depends on who's expectations that is set. I think if you ask Mayfair they would in general agree they raced well. When winning comes down to hundreths and tenths of a second that is a tough call. It is just that other teams also raced well regardless of the course which by now everyone agrees is not perfect.

Mayfair didn't have a bad weekend, in MY opinion (but you would have to ask them how they feel about it). I think they had one bad race, and at GWN that's all it takes to turn a possible victory into near certain defeat.

That's the important bit. You can stop reading now unless you like details.


It all came down to that semi-final between Big Fish, Mayfair and Hanalei. We (Big Fish) were in the best position to win it, and get a decent lane for the Championship final. We raced hard enough to bleed out our ears but it wasn't enough. Hanalei pulled a major upset and took first, giving them the only decent lane draw from that semi. Coming in second was probably a death sentence for Mayfair because that gave Lane 4 in the final based on the draw. Compare that to the Chiro's who got Lane 1 for coming in second in their semi. Sweet deal.

Saying that, I take nothing away from the Chiro's for winning and give nothing back to Mayfair for not winning. All the teams in the Top 10 "A" bracket did a good job by qualifying high enough to have a shot at the final. At that point, you have to play the hand you're dealt. Any team ranked less than 6th was dead, EOS. In the semi's, you could either win or come second from Semi #1 and still have a shot (Lane 3 for winning, Lane 1 for second). In semi #2 you HAD TO WIN, or you were also dead (Lane 2 for winning, Lane 4 for second). "Next fastest" in Lane 5? Oops. Might as well sing a song, have some fun, and race for pride. Which we did.

Congrats to Chiros, Hanalei, Hammerheads, Mayfair, and my own beloved Fishies for a great final race. See you next spring.

Big Fat Fishy

Probably the most accurate analysis and statement of how all the top crews felt about the event, the races, the lanes etc - everyone at that level knows exactly what they're dealing with and what they have to do and the consequences if they don't...here's a cliche for you.. that's racing

When I said "Any team ranked less than 6th was dead..." I should have said "Any team ranked worse than 6th was dead..."

I agree with Fat Fishy and not just cause they're on my team. Every team in that second morning "A" semi knew the deal and we all raced our freaking brains out. I think I am still seeing spots.

Congrates to all the teams on the weekend. Great sportsmanship and good fun. Longest congratulations line I can remember with all the finalist lining up and going over the bridge at one point.

Agree with both fishies...everyone in that heat knew exactly what was on the line and went for the win...I haven't felt that sick after a race in a long time... I was awfully glad to have 5 hours to recover for the final!!!

and all you forum dwellers who like to comment on the poor sportsmanship of various teams should have been at the unloading area to see the congratulations line... all the A final teams joined it (and some A consolation teams too I think) -it was great to see the friendships between members of all the teams... chiros, mayfair, hanalei, big fish and hammerheads - I know not everyone on all teams loves everyone... but overall a great feeling of respect and sincere good will for a hard fought race

Typically I never post on this forum but since this is a bit of a love in...
Every team in the A finals absolutely deserves every bit of respect. I for one have been around the DB community a looong time (how long exactly I will not divulge that kind of information as my walker tends to give away my age anyway). I have competed against Big Fish, Mayfair, for a number of years and have always highly respected these great teams. I for one know how hard and committed these teams are to trainnig and racing and have a solid past to prove it. Certainly all of these teams are a class act!
As for lane bias... oh well it's too bad and hopefully Ont. Place will improve the conditions (doubt it!)?? As such we all know that most A division finals any team can win. Lane placement is part of the game / strategy in any regatta some to a greater degree than others.
To all the teams thanks a bunch for a great weekend!

Great weather.Bit of a head wind.On time.Congrats to all.

I think fat fishy is just that...FAT