Someone mentioned on another thread that Stratford has a couple of new boats. What do people in Stratford think of them. I personally think they suck big time. Any dis-agreements?

What make of boat are they, and why do you think they suck?

Sorry I do not know what make the boats are. They do not belong to the Rotary Club so mayby someone from the Stratford Dragonboat Club can answer that one. As for why they suck.

too tippy compared to buks or heavier wooden boats
harder to steer than the buks or wooden boats
kick plates are not placed where they can be used unless you are about 6'3" tall at the front of the boat and then at the back, you need to be 4'2' in order to use the kick plates.

BUK's are the tippiest boats I know. But tippier generally means faster.

Could it be the PEL/Plastex boats from Paddle Sport?

I believe they are Pels and if you think they suck so much use the wood boats instead.

Never heard any complaints about steering in Stouffville, and they were a fast boat.

As for foot rests I had no major complaints, every boat will be slightly different. If i recall my legs were stretched out a little further then a BUK, but if you can paddle half decently no problem.

This poster is obviously someone who has something against Paddlesport. Just look at the phrasing. Starts off I heard Stratford has new boats, then states they think they suck.

My crew has trained and raced in the Pel Boats with no complaints.

There's 2 wooden boats that are still in the water. The new Pel boats heavy compared to those 24 seater waterlogged old wooden GWN boats - not! Tippy... quit flopping around! You must have a beginner team so play it safe and stay on the old "stable" ones. You can choose in Stratford. Go ahead and use the old boats since everyone else will be in the new boats.

PEL Boats = 22 seats which makes 18 seats or 8 rows usuable. rows 1 and 11 are useless. Bad decision STratford if you bought PELS

Stratford Pel boats have 10 rows.

I think all the PEL's here have either been adjusted for 10 rows or were delivered with 10 rows lately.

this is better news that saying the new PEL Boats have 11 rows. however, a new problem arises. too much space between the seats and foot rests. did you see the foot braces in Mussellmans Lake Race? you needed to be 6'6 to reach the foot brace. The quality of the 'repairs' looked like it was done by a grade 2 workshop

PaddleSport was talking about re-adusting the foot rests or doubling up the foot rest (like the BUK's) in the off-season. Let's see if that happens.

OOH Jeez, first SRS boats now PELs. I guess it's unacceptable to have any other boat except Buk?

To me the only crime is not caring. While I can't say why SRS had all these problems and no one seems to care (Montreal choosing the cheapest seat option isn't SRS's fault), at least in the PEL case, the seats were adjusted, then the foot rests were adjusted, then there were some problems with the new footrests and I hear those are being fixed once again.

Apparently this stuff isn't an exact science... Who knew.

PS. I am not Jeff or Paul, but I do have the priveledge of training out of TSCC and using the PEL boats to train in and would rate them right up there with BUK's any day.

(Montreal choosing the cheapest seat option isn't SRS's fault),

This is the stupidest comment yet on the whole SRS boat fiasco.

Isn't that exactly what happened? Thought someone said MTL chose the cheaper seats so that they wouldn't have to varnish the wood ones every year?

Nobody had any complaints about the Pel boat in Stratford. In fact it was the one festival where throughout the thread the Irene H. posted that there was no negative comments on either the boats or festival. Teams in toronto practicing in the Pel rate it a good boat, right up there with a BUK. Now suddenly somebody in Stratford doesn't like the boat. Not saying that everyone is going to love every boat, but this sounds like somebody with a vested interest with another company...

I've actually had the opportunity to both race and train in the PEL boats, and have no complaints whatsoever. The boats are solidly constructed, feel good to sit in (there's confidence that the seats will not fall apart midway through a race) and glide very well.

Pel boats have never been used in The Stratford Festival. Once again this year, we will be using BUK Boats.

So Kevin, why did Stratford buy Pel boats if they don't intend to use them in the festival. Wouldn't it make more sense to have boats that are the same?

Hey Stratford Paddler et al;

Why not just e-mail Kevin directly if you have any questions about the equipment being used at the Stratford festival??

Rotary do not own the PEL boats nor had any input into the decision to purchase them. They were purchased by the The Stratford Dragon Boat Club through a Trillium Grant.

We do however own 2 older BUK boats that are availble to community teams to use and practise throughout the year. We have had boats now for about 9 years.

If we had input into the decision, we would have suggested BUK boats which would have reduced our rental expenses.

It was their grant so I guess they could do anything that they want. It really has nothing to do with Rotary or The Festival.

The 2 Rotary Boats are definitely not BUK's, they are 3rd generation GWN wooden 24 seaters. The decision to purchase Pels (through PaddleSport)was purely based on price. Although the BUK's have dropped significantly in price the this year, at the time of decision they were $5000 more than Pels. PaddleSport has shown to be a reputable company making good to convert the 11 bench boats into 10 bench. There are discussions regarding adjusting the spacing of the foot rests in the off season.

The Stratford Dragon Boat Club operates independently of the Stratford Dragon Boat Festival or Rotary although we are contracted to setup the race course for their event.

For somebody who claims to be knowledgeable get to know your boats. Plus if a lot of people say the Pel boat is good, then why spend $5k more for BUK's.

Pel Boats plow through the water like a drowned rat.

lol, Kevin bought his boats 8 years ago... Anyone back then heard of PEL's. Get a grip on yourself.

Also, the PELs run just fine thank you very much... At least with a 10 seat setup anyway.

spokesperson for Pel.

"Pel Boats plow through the water like a drowned rat."

Do you have any idea of how much maintenance it takes to keep a dead rat in the water from season to season? It's awful! I mean, embalming fluid alone will run you in the hundreds of dollars, and they get waterlogged pretty fast so you have to keep them dry. And then there's the de-lousing. Don't even get me started....

Not a spokeperson for PEL, but simple a paddler who trains in them. I am no expert in these things, but the boats seem pretty darn good to me. BUK's are great as well to be sure.

SRS seem pretty fast, but clearly not quite there yet from a build quality perspective, but they are only two years old so hopefully they get better. People, a successful Canadian boat supplier with a good to great product at a (shipping) reduced price is in ALL of our best interest for crips sake. Love'em or Hate'em we WILL benefit if they succeed.

"....We do however own 2 older BUK boats that are availble to community teams to use and practise throughout the year. We have had boats now for about 9 years"

Kevin, better check with Kerkmann if you thought you bought BUK's. Is this another Carbon-Kevlar controversy in the making? lol

Hey Kevin, if your worried about rental costs, maybe you should get PEL's for your festival next year! That way you'd have 2 less boats to rent!

Kevin

In response to using Pel boats for the races, I for one would strongly object to that. Unless, the boats are a lot better after getting them fixed, they do NOT measure up to the buks for racing.

So BUK's and BUK's only should ever be used for racing?

Dude, get out of your own neighborhood every now and then. Lots of racing is done in non-BUK boats.

Just plain stupid.

Racing is done in a lot of different type of boats.
However, I wouldn't race in a festival with Pel's.
Whatever you care to say about their quality, which may be questionable.
They simply do not ride well on the water.

Your message style is a dead giveaway.

"
Racing is done in a lot of different type of boats.
However, I wouldn't race in a festival with Pel's.
Whatever you care to say about their quality, which may be questionable.
They simply do not ride well on the water."

LOL.
How many times have you been in a PEL boat?

Raced in more tpye of boats than you could count on.

So last year we show up for the worlds in Shanghai and they are using long, heavy wooden boats that look like they are made in a lumber yard. The scales were actually wall paper held on by thumbtacks. No guarantee that every boat was the same but at least they were new. Guess what.....NOBODY COMPLAINED! To you dummies that won't race in this or that festival because they use Pels or something else and you think they "don't ride well in the water" you are losers. I agree with the poster that says get out of your neighbourhood and broaden your horizons.

I agree that in a quality festival every boat should be as close to identical as possible. Beyond that a good crew should be able to adapt to whatever type of boat they are racing and not have it negatively impact their performance. I also agree with the poster who said that SRS making boats is in all of our best interests. Hopefully in time they can get the problems you jump all over sorted out. A Canadian manufacturer of boats is a good thing. I'm willing to bet that most of you condeming their boats are hacks anyway and many of you are just jumping on a very unbecoming bandwagon that exists on this forum where you complain about everything. They are currently not as good as BUKs but not nearly as bad as you make them out to be. btw, my name is not Karen or Kevin.

Never claimed to be an expert. Don't want to be considered an expert and deepest apologies for suggesting that these were BUK boats.I don't know the difference and really don't need to know.

I do know that Rotary has supplied boats to the Stratford paddling community for several years. It has helped establish Stratford teams as respectable competitors based on our population of 30,000 and it has been well accepted by many.

It's quite disturbing to hear people who pay next to nothing for boat rentals to suggest that our Rotary boats are so poor.

Let me start by saying that I practice in the PELs this year. I also raced in Stoufville this year and last.

"They simply do not ride well on the water"

I'm guessing that you raced in the PEL's last year, and not this year. The 11 seaters were difficult to balance. With the 10 seat setup, the boat sits better in the water, and is one of the fastest boats around.

I am glad that the Pel's you have had experience with are good boats, but it does not change the fact the the ones we have in Stratford have problems as stated above. If as Ken claims, the boats are fixed in the off season, then that would be a great improvement over what we have right now, which is lousy boats. I do not really care who produced them. As they stand, they cannot compare with the buk boats. I for one hope that they will be better next year.

"Raced in more tpye of boats than you could count on."

Count on.... ??? what? Finish your thought... you can do it... come on, you can...

In fact all good things, then somebody whines in Stratford and all of a sudden naysayers. If there were any true complaints about the boat they would have come out in the Stouffville race. Not one complaint, only good things said. I for one have raced in all three, and for the person who says they plow through the water like a dead rat, well your fat ass must of been hanging over board and producing drag as this is one fast boat.

"...If we had input into the decision, we would have suggested BUK boats which would have reduced our rental expenses."

With GWN gaining power in the DBC and you being the GWN puppet, of course you aren't going to go with any other boat other then the GWN supplied BUK's. You being a director on the DBC is just a "political appointment" from your GWN buddies! Notice that all DBC "Member Festivals" are all GWN affiliates and Stratford is one of them.

is if you got two Pel boats for $5k cheaper then a Buk, then how is it more expensive for rental costs.

To the people who attended last year's AGM in Toronto and voted for me, thank you. To the rest of the people who think that they have important things to say and do, I hope that you will get off your rear ends, get involved and put your name forward to assist DBC in their work. Talk is cheap.

It would have been a logical move for Stratford to get BUK boats as GWN are our festival partners and owning a couple would have reduced our rental costs. Our committee has been very happy with the service that we have received from GWN over the past 10 years.

Whether I am perceived by a few wanna bees as a puppet is irrelevant. I am nothing other than a committee member following the direction of our Rotary chair, Bill Helmuth.

Gee, I wonder who wrote the hard hitting message at 1:38 a.m. when most people are in bed. Hmm. Not hard to figure out, really.

ooh - this is getting good. So who is 1:38 am?? Do tell.

Cut the crap. We all no that what GWN wants it gets. What great things has DBC done for us lately...

"Cut the crap. We all no that what GWN wants it gets. What great things has DBC done for us lately..."

That would be "we all know...", wouldn't it? Moron.

Where would one go about getting a list of DBC Member Festivals? and Teams for that matter?

That's easy to figure out. He is someone who works late and goes on the net around 1:30 - 2:00 AM. He has vested interest in the PEL boats. Go back and see who else has posted messages while most are sleeping.

Grace,

The person you're talking about isn't a partner in PaddleSport racing, so what would be his vested interest?

Speaking of vested interests........

Grace, aren't you Kevin's wife? And Ken's sister?

This stupidity that's going on in this thread is nothing but you and Kevin against Ken. You ALL really need to stop this. It's really getting old.

The rest of the dragonboat community does not need to be dragged into your bickering. And you should not be trying to bring down the name of a quality boat, which almost everyone has said is fast, reliable, and strong (see Stouffville fesitval). If you need to bitch at each other like this, make a thread dedicated to that. I like the PEL boats here. I think they're great.

This is so childish and I would expect more from you ALL of you. The people of Stratford have had enough.

Grace is not my wife nor do I think I know who she is nor what all this nonsense is all about. I came into this thread to answer specific questions. For the most part those questions were also inaccurate.

and anyone else that has slammed the Pel boat, really do not know what they are talking about. After getting good kudos on other threads, and being used in one of only 2 or 3 festivals that never had any complaints, possibly in the history of the board, this thread is suddenly full of complaints and 2 cent comments. Never knew they weren't BUKs in Stratford either, but it is funny that they would prefer practicing in those then the Pel boat that the Toronto teams racing and practing in have in general good things to say about it, including the handling and speed. True there were complaints about the seats being 11, that was corrected. Now the foot braces, from what one poster has stated they are looking at adjusting that, which we have no reason to beleive otherwise. the only thing that I can come up with is that other producers are slowly making in roads in Ontario, and those with a vested interest or long time friendship are trying to slam others and prop up others.

Please note not a slam against GWN, good quality boat and festival production. It is just the misinformation, lack of knowledge and immaturity of those slamming a boat for know apparent reason. The more producers and boat manufacturers and importers there are the better the quality and price. That is the reason why the BUK is cheaper in Canada now, and the reason for the trend toward quality events.

If I wanted to help DBC, but did not only support GWN would I be allowed on board.

It is good to see that you are atacking my knowledge and maturity rather than disputing my claims that the boats we have in Stratford (not PEL boats in general) do not measure up to the buks for racing. If you actually took the time to read all my posts, you would have seen that I also said that if the boats are fixed as claimed, then I hoped that they would then be improved enough to use. So, would you prefer to race in the boats we have in Stratford or the buk boats? I prefer the buks. Hopefully after the pel boats are fixed, I can change my mind about them.

Rumour is that the boats will all be the same in Stratford