PORT MOODY/CKNW(AM980) - They were wet and cold, but it could have been much worse.
A dragon boat, carrying 24 female paddlers in training, capsized in Burrard Inlet this morning off Barnet Marine Park.

Someone on shore called emergency crews and the coast guard, tugboats and a couple of smaller vessels were dispatched.

Maritime Search and Rescue coordinator, Alison Keighan says although they responded quickly, she has no idea how long the women were in the water.

Keighan says luckily all the paddlers were wearing life jackets and to her knowledge no one suffered any serious injuries.

What Actually Happened:
was that the Abreast in Barnet team's 6-16 boat had gotten swamped by the wake of a tug passing nearby. Usually, the tugs passing through the channel slow down a bit but this one was going a bit too fast and generated a wake with waves 3-4ft high. Once their boat had gotten swamped and the ladies were in the water, one of them used a cell phone to call for help. While most of the ladies clung to the swamped boat, the crew of the tug saw what happened and proceeded to turn around to render assistance. In the meantime, several nearby craft were already enroute to render assistance. All in all, some of the ladies ended up in the water for up to 15 minutes.

Where are all the smartass comments about life jackets being stupid, that Dragon Boats don't swamp,etc.?
Thanks for that article.

Big water like Burrard Inlet...life jackets a good idea. Not so hard to see how it could happen. Centre Island? It'd take a miracle to swamp a dragon boat. For experienced paddlers life jackets aren't essential. Just use common sense. Smartass enough for you?

"For experienced paddlers life jackets aren't essential. Just use common sense".

Feed that crap to the 7 guys that overturned their boat in Rice Lake this past weekend.

You just never know when common sense will be enough.

this was a tragic weekend on the water for a number of people. long weekends often are. and I don't mean to diminish the tragedy for those involved, but clearly common sense was NOT used in a number of these incidents. weather in Ontario was nasty this past weekend. common sense should have told some of those people to stay off the water, or at worst wear a lifejacket.

but comparing fishing accidents to dragon boat paddling is missing the point. when conditions are flat, and our team is practicing inside a breakwall, why would a lifejacket be necessary? but tragedy can strike when you least expect it you might say. and you would be right. shit happens. that's why I wear a belt pouch PFD at all times in a dragon boat. it's the perfect compromise solution. they don't get in the way, and they're small enough that you don't mind wearing it so this ensures that you WILL wear it. in a pinch it can save your life but it won't impede your paddling.

too bad the Toronto Harbour Master has a burr up his/her butt about these things. some people just don't understand the value of a good solution when it isn't THEIR solution.

okay, now start again with the high-speed rollowver scenarios where everyone gets simultaneously whacked over the head and knocked out. nice little doomsday stories that never happen, and distract us from workable solutions. go ahead, but I won't waste my time with that nonsense.

being a good paddler does not make you an excellent swimmer

I'm a smart ass!

Is the Harbour Master really the one to blame for having to wear lifejackets? I thought it was the insurance companies?

I once asked a Toronto Police Harbour Patrol officer what they do if they catch a dragon boater without a lifejacket on. His response - we don't give anyone a ticket, as long as they have the PFD in the boat.

I was going to ask how it was possible that they weren't all knocked out, but I see someone beat me to it.

Like someone else said, common sense is common sense. My crew wears the PFD's in the early spring then the water is cold enough to prevent even the best swimmer from functioning properly for more than a few seconds. Common sense.

When the water gets warmer, they are in the boat but seldom worn. I see little or no reason for an experienced crew with an experienced cox to need them during a well organized regatta. Gotta love the sport devisions.

They should allow the inflatables back in all other divisions as well. You can't tell me the insurance companies came up with banning them all on their own. Like they would even know what the difference was. Do they take this same attitude when insuring regular boaters? What you have an inflatable? Sorry we cannot insure you.

Common sense works both ways. Obviously those ladies should have been wearing their PFD's given many factors, not the least of which was where they would be paddling and the types of boat traffic they may encounter.

I like the fact that the original poster put up the story that was in the media, as well as what looks like a closer account (perhaps even second hand?) of the actual events. The former makes it look like a group of paddlers -- pardon the pun -- in over their heads. The latter seems to place at least some of the blame on the tug. We may never know EXACTLY what transpired.

This illustrates nicely my point that a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. The Rice Lake drownings, while tragic, were predictable... to the point that locals in their cottages witnessing the overturned craft decided (wisely) not to take their 14' boats out to attempt a rescue, knowing full well that they would be the next victims. High winds, small boats and weekend warriors make for a bad combination.

I have paddled and steered in some treacherous conditions (Hong Kong, New York's Hudson River, Thailand to name a few) and have never been in the water. A solid crew and a good steersman can do wonders.

I don't believe that a PFD or lifejacket can take the place of common sense.

Those who decided to not take their 14' boat out to attempt a rescue were using common sense and obeying safe boating laws...you must assist ONLY IF you do not put yourself in danger. It was so cold in cottage country this weekend that only fools would be on the water.

PFDs will save your life. Not always comfortable to wear but so important.

"A solid crew and a good steersman can do wonders." I can't say any better.

The steersman has more control of the boat than the crew - even a solid crew. In this case, the steersman is the main problem. The tugboat is slow giving the steersperson ample time to turn the boat towards the waves - head on. Even if the crew were consisted of rookies, and when panic, they don't lean outside the boat to cause the boat to flip.

I am not convinced that everyone who paddles can swim. I have no idea if the people on my team can but good old peer pressure would probably convince all my team mates not to wear a life jacket.

In the case of an overturned boat in deeper water, it's a crap shoot as to what would happen.

If someone drowns, where do the law suits start? Do we start nailing the "volunteer" steersperson for getting us into this mess? Do we sue the community that governs the body of water? Not sure but someone other than the drowned people would have to pay.

I don't know what responsibility "mike" has on his team, I do know that every time I take the steering oar with a new team I ask who cannot swim. Again, a lifejacket or PFD cannot take the place of common sense.

Also, a PFD will not necessarily save your life. PFD's do not right an unconscious person in the water face up, and an adult human tends to roll face down when unconscious in deep water.

And the part about someone being sued, Mike, I would say that the questions posed are the general publics' classic case of "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous". Each case is different, so we could say "yeah, but what if..." to each other ad nauseum. The key in finding fault in a drowning is negligence (of which there are 3 spicific points that have to be proven), and a person not wearing a lifejacket (or PFD) and then drowning definitely brings up the situation of contributory neglience. Ten years teaching NLS (National Lifeguard Service) for the Lifesaving Society leaves an impression on drowning and near drowning accidents.

And to the Anon that re-posted my quote about competent steering, thanks for the kudos.

If the waves were 3-4 ft high I do not think heading into them would have prevented the boat from swamping. Dragon boats are pigs and more than likely the bow would have plowed INTO the wave NOT floated over it. Because there would have been more than one wave, the boat would quickly take on more water with each successive wave, as its getting water dumped into it with each wave making it heavier and heavier.

http://www.aocrasqz.com/noosa2006/pages/IMG_5962_jpg.htm

I am sure that this is what a dragon boat would look like heading into a 3-4 ft swell head on. And these guys have the advantage of wearing skirts.

Dragonboat would fill up in no time.

I believe the cox was in a no win situation.

There's no real way of knowing what a cox should or shouldn't have done if you weren't there, but I would always prefer to face a swell than be broad-sided by it.

I have also been in some very turbulent water in a dragon boat. There were at least 3-4 foot swells, maybe higher. Our engine room was set to work as a human bilge pump. It was pretty dicey, but just about the most fun I have ever had paddling (even if I hardly got to paddle for all the bailing).

the only reason that mike cares about this is that it was a bunch of asians who in his mind probably do dragonboat because they are asian. it's a great opportunity for him to take his schlong out from his pants and show off how big it is.

I much prefer the statements supporting common sense than Mike Harass' simplistic statement about lifejackets. And comparing a dragon boat crew on sheltered water to those dumbasses on Rice Lake (in a small motor boat in huge wind and waves and freezing temperatures) is just stupid.

Mike, if you are racing in any sport races this summer I fully hope and expect to see you wearing your PFD otherwise you are the biggest hypocrite imaginable. For someone who has paddled for so long you must be incredibly obtuse if you don't have enough common sense to realize that common sense is the best way to approach the PFD issue in DB.

"with each successive wave, as its getting water dumped into it with each wave making it heavier and heavier" - still not enough to sink the pig.

"There's no real way of knowing what a cox should or shouldn't have done if you weren't there, but I would always prefer to face a swell than be broad-sided by it." - sounds like it got broad-sided as expected.

Common sense rule sounds good to me - if someone is around to rescue you, lifejackets are not so much of a worry (buddy boat / coach boat). But if you are training alone, lifejackets should be a must - whether you wear them is up to you. Natural selection will take care of the rest.

I'm Right
You're Wrong
Beyond That I Don't Give A Shit

If you are in a situation where you cannot EASILY swim to shore unassisted then wear a lifejacket, this means always when the water is cold. I suggest people try swimming in cold water to find out how difficult it is.Seriously , I do. A paddler should also always know what to do if they tip , so you will be less stunned when you hit the water.

Lake Ontario is 10 degrees right now. Paddling in shorts and a top, sweating, and then dipping in 10 degree water should be experienced before venturing far from the shore. That first shock when you hit the water is the worst, but it doesn't get much better after that. Most people wouldn't last as long as they think.

stfu mike

Bring on the flames, but there's nobody in Canada who paddles dragon boat well enough to be negatively affected by a well made, well fitted PFD.

Or anywhere, probably.

(Gee guys, I really don't like this hockey helmet. It's hot and bulky and I can see better without it.)

If it's the rule, then practice with the PFD, and stop complaining.

After all, think of all the good things about DB. You get to participate in a sport with easy entry level qualifications, it's not hard to be reasonably good, you can be on a "high perfomance" team with three practices a week, it's not impossible for many crews to go to"World Championships", it's good for your abs, and there are lots of opportunities to socialize if you like that part of the sport.

Racing at the highest level with a PFD is a hinderance. Next thing you know you'll want to see Olympic rowers and paddlers wearing PFDs as well. Harass, I don't recall hearing about you wearing a PFD when you were a passenger at the worlds in Nottingham.

The poster who talked about cold water and being far from shore is absolutely right. Experienced sport racers on sheltered courses with warm water and nearby shore shouldn't have to wear them. They can carry them in the boat. And sport racing, like races in rowing and canoeing should not have mandatory use of PFD rules. Oh yeah, sorry Mike you're right, I'm wrong. I forgot. I'll shut up then. You jerk.

Interesting point OP. So are you saying that we (as dragonboat paddlers, coaches, etc) should accept every rule passed down to us by the powers that be? What would Rosa Parks have to say about that type of thinking?

As for the poster who said something about a "well fitted PFD" not affecting performance, that's not the case for me, or anyone I've ever spoken to on the subject. Ask yourself why those waist pouch inflatible PFDs were so popular until it was suddenly decided they were not acceptable.

And the hockey helmet example is just rediculous. Now, if you want to make dragonboat full contact, then ya, we should all wear lifejackets... and helmets.

Oh, one more thing, what was it? Mike, you're a jerk. Shut up.

To the intellects of the dragon boat world.............

Several years ago, I saw a dragon boat collide with another and almost tip. I say almost as it didn't.It was the first heat of the festival and pitted weak teams against strong teams.One team had a skilled steers and the other relied on the festival to provide one.

One of the skilled female paddlers sitting in the front of the boat received a broken arm out of this.
It changed my thinking on PDF's and I am just curious as to how the esteemed intellects would have justified this situation.

I guess that it could never happen again and if this girl happened to drown then I guess that would be alright as it would be for the betterment of the sport. Right......JERK!

"One of the skilled female paddlers sitting in the front of the boat received a broken arm out of this. It changed my thinking on PDF's and I am just curious as to how the esteemed intellects would have justified this situation. "
Whoa. That's too much for my intellect. PFDs prevent broken arms now. Whoa.
Or was it the boat almost tipping that pushed you into the PFD camp?

Do you wear a mouth guard when you walk? You know, just in case a meteor hits you in the mouth?

So I like to have a few drinks with the boys and drive home. I can handle things and I've never had an accident.

I don't require my guys to wear safety boots at work because no one has ever had a problem and all my guys are skilled trades.

I'm a firefighter and I hate wearing that big and bulky suit. It doesn't look good and we never have any big fires here.

I don't need to wear a seat belt because I'm a really good driver.

I don't need to wear a PFD because I'm a skilled paddler.

Logically , you,re right.
Legally you're wrong.

Well, some convincing arguments here.

Comparing the lifejacket rule with institutionalized racism seems a bit far-fetched, but personal freedom has many elements.

Compromise? Coaches, captains and organizers: Be sure that you have a safety plan at your race/practice site for what to do in the unlikely event that a boat does tip. (Look for your seat partner, drummer look for steerer, both count the crew, whatever ...) Make sure that the paddlers know what to do. Remind them often. It might be like the seat belt info on airplanes, but worth it.

And, please don't laugh at people wearing lifejackets. See you at WCCC.

I sure hope you're wearing your lifejacket on the ferry to the Island, cause I wouldn't want you to break the law.

Oh, wait, you didn't wear a PFD on the ferry ANY year you've paddled on the island. You broke the law.

Oh, wait again, there is no law to that effect. Just stay off the forum, doofus.

Joel, everyone loves Mike Johnston. Leave him alone

Mike Johnston, Team Canada 1999 starring as "The Passenger"

How much semen did you have to drink to get on that team, Mike?
And did it affect your ability to think rationally?

That last post may be one of the funniest I have seen here in years.

I don't always wear a pfd when I paddle, but if it weren't for wearing a pfd at the right time and place, I wouldn't be here.

Some years ago, I was drumming on a boat in a festival on a cold April morning, training a novice crew of boy & girl scouts. The water was supposed to be clear of all pleasure and commercial traffic because of the race. Nevertheless, this didn't stop our boat from being literally run over by a 30 metre sailboat (on engine power) undoubtably skippered by some drunken idiot showing off for his friends. Our helm tried to get us out of the way of the sailing vessel, but we were on choppy water with an inexperienced crew and control of the boat was difficult. The youngsters jumped out of the boat just before the sailing boat hit us. The helm was thrown out of the boat from the impact and I went down with the ship. Yes, accidents do happen.

Luckily, all the youth, the helm and myself were all wearing pfd's. We had to wait for pickup from the water for at least 15 minutes in cold, deep river water with a fast current. Everyone was okay (except for myself - a lasting knee injury caused by being trapped between the drum and seat).

The pfd was not the only factor in keeping everyone safe. 1. No-one really panicked, 2. we introduce the buddy system to all new paddlers, so everyone was accounted for, 3. we instruct everyone to stay with the boat unless directed otherwise by the helm or rescue personnel (although the kids jumped out of the db moments before the ship hit, they quickly made their way back to the boat to hold on to it and look for their bench buddy), 4. small boaters watching the event helped pick up paddlers quickly in the absence of rescue boats.

Event organizers have a responsibility to ensure basic safety at their events: rescue boats, first aid crews, standard instruction in safety procedures, and pfd's should all be available. Organizers and/or race officials also have a responsibility to determine whether pfd's should be worn during the event (especially given water & weather conditions).

Trainers have a responsibility to require wearing (or at least presence) of pfds in the boat during nasty weather, on deep and/or cold water, where there is lots of commercial and/or pleasure traffic and where there is little chance of rapid rescue. In addition, individuals should wear a pfd if they are weak or non-swimmers.

While a good crew and consistent attention to safety procedures can enhance the safety of a crew not wearing pfd's, you never know when an idiot will come along who is either drunk or thinks swamping a small boat is fun (had that nearly happen a couple of weeks ago when some idiots in a speedboat thought it would be fun to pitch us out of our boat with their wake).

I've been paddling canoes since I was a child and dragon boat racing for 10 years now. While I hate wearing a pfd, especially in competitions, I would not be unhappy if they were required for all dragon boat activity, whether for training, festival racing or even serious event racing. If you don't wear a pfd, it's your risk. Use your brains. There are times when a pfd is highly advisable.

An average of 77 people per year die from cold water immersion during boating activities.
http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=017352&tid=024

Around 60 Canadians get hit by lightning every year.

This is the question we always face. Do we allow people to risk their health by entering activities that may be dangerous, or do we require them by law to either forego those activities, or force them to wear protective gear like a PFD?

I'm always in favour of personal choice. The Nanny-state bugs me to no end. And I don't want YOU speaking for ME when you say that a PFD should be worn at all times when in a dragon boat. I disagree, and I think it ought to be up to me.

My choice, when I'm permitted to make it, is to wear an inflatible PFD because it provides some measure of protection if something unexpected happens. If you want to wear a full, non-inflatible PFD every time you enter a dragon boat then that's YOUR choice, but there ought to be a CHOICE.

JMHO

If they drown, then +1 for humanity.

Let the dumb ones die.

Wear one when you need too.
Common sense is enough. Those guys on Rice Lake just didn't have any at all.

About a few teaspoons.

1 in 5 have a PFD on and still die.

The entire article is on COLD WATER, makes no mention of factors such as age, related alcohol/drug use, swimming ability, distance from shore, etc.

So, what is this supposed to prove/disprove? Perhaps a more interesting and relevant article would be on how many dragonboaters die in practice and during events in Canada (or other countries).

As for the broken arm post -- I heard that was two teams that were practicing wash riding and one of the steerspersons lost control, boats came together, broken arm.

Once again, urban legends and rumours take precedence over common sense and reality.