http://www.agassizharrisonobserver.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=2&cat=40&id=688101&more=

“My job is to control the boat,” she says. “I harness the energy; focus the team; and eliminate all other sounds. I keep those 20 paddlers inside that boat, and that boat only.”


Discuss.

Having paddled for 15 years in DB I really don't need someone at the front of my boat to keep me focused. It does help from time to time to relay commands from the back to the front part of the boat but that's about it... unless there's great eye candy sitting there!

“In together, in. In together, in,” she commands


Whatever.

{Cringe}

Having your coach in the drummer's seat as opposed to the back steering is a huge advantage in my opinion. Everyone can hear the race call better and I actually think you can see more from the drummer's seat than you can steering. If there is a good level of cooperation between the drummer and the steersman then it is really awesome for the crew as you have coaches at front and back.

Too many crews just put some putz up in the drummer's seat who goes along for a ride and doesn't really contribute in any meaningful way. What a wasted opportunity to add real value to the crew in a race.

A drummer is not instrumental to the team's success, but having a good one versus a bad one can make a difference - calling out one or two focuses during the race (as opposed to a constant stream of annoying advice), relaying, adjusting sitting position to offset boat imbalances, etc.

Also if you're a team without a consistent cox, your drummer needs to be able to call the race. Otherwise, you're risking the rent-a-cox calling 3 power series or using a different set of terminology that your team might not key in on right away (sucks when only half the boat knows a finish was called).

Well if a coach weighs more that 130 I would not want them on my drum.Sorry but IMO, the drummer is really not that important except for relaying.

Well, it's mostly because I can't steer well - but I insist on drumming of teams that I coach. Especially those that are less experienced or don't have much time to gel.

This is because I know exactly what I want my crew to be doing at every point in the race, so instead of putting someone who just happens to be light at the front.

A few years back Rob C. drummed for the Piranhas. And it was possibly the best thing that he could have done for a team that was struggling to keep it together psychologically during races.

I think a good drummer can really help a team focus

I think so too!

Most times the drummer is someone who could not make the crew, its that simple. If your crew needs a drummer to keep you focussed you have other issues to deal with (more than likely wash because you suck)

it is not essential to have a great drummer to be succesful.

However, giving too much control over a bad drummer can really hurt you.

You obviously haven't seen the drummer from Philly do her thing.

drummer irrelevant July 13 2006, 1:27 PM

"Most times the drummer is someone who could not make the crew, its that simple. If your crew needs a drummer to keep you focussed you have other issues to deal with (more than likely wash because you suck)"

There's an insightful (as well as inciteful) comment. Another one of those "it's that simple" comments from some dope with minimal, if any, successful experience in dragonboat. Let me introduce you to the National Team, who realized the importance of someone who knows wtf they are doing in the drummers seat back in '96 when they put Peter Hoy up there. Everyone in the crew agreed it made a big difference to them compared to just throwing anyone up there like they'd done before. They won in Hong Kong that year by what, maybe 3 or 4 feet? If it made a little difference for them then it was worth it. Funny how when Tutty took over the program that is where he chose to sit as well. Could have put another paddler up there. Could have put some hot stripper up there. But no, Doug went up there because it makes a difference having your coach, where possible, in that position.

As far as weight is concerned, why the f do you think the drummer has to be less than 130 lbs. yet the rudderboy is often close to 200? That's dumb. Obviously, in BOTH cases it is advantageous for them to be light, however sometimes the benefits derived by having the right person in the drummers seat can make up for pulling a little extra weight.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the "drummer is the key to success" as the person who started this thread did. There are a ton of things that go into making a successful crew. The dope who made the post that I am responding to probably couldn't name two. Having a good drummer is important though, and not finding one means you aren't doing everything possible to help your crew win.

This has been an interesting discussin, which is what I hoped for when I put up the link to the story in the first place.

But to clarify a point, it is not I who suggested the drummer is the key to success, that was just a shortform for the title of the article.

My personal feeling is that the drummer in the article is far too full of herself. But although a good drummer may not be the "key to success", they can make a difference, as the person above points out.

"“In together, in. In together, in,” she commands of her 20-plus paddlers, simultaneously driving their paddles in and out of Harrison Lake during Wednesday evening’s practice. And with every command comes the beat of the drum: Boom, boom, boom."

LOL.. we got ourselves a real drummer here folks.. boom boom boom

"if my team can’t hear me calling out the commands, it’s pretty much chaos."

right okay

Why get your ass all in a knot about it?

BTW, I know Peter H did a great job in that spot. He also had the experience to do it. Not many drummers do.

You will not see the National Team put a big person on the drum. No way no how. Tutty ain't big either.

We can all debate the pro's and con's, but the most fun was reading that article. I haven't met too many people more full of themselves than that drummer.

I can just imagine the rest of the crew reading this crap and cringing. I wonder if she'll be drumming next year.

I find the drummer's seat is the best place to go for a good Tan

You will see that a drummer is important, as important as a cox in rowing. Right now these comments show where this sport is, recreational wannabees.

There's no good teams out of Harrison. It's no wonder they NEED a drummer up there to have any semblance of control.

Archie and anonymous July 14 @ 6:25am are the only ones who know what they're talking about. The drummer is key on high performance crews. Granted this 5-year group out of Harrison doesn't fit that profile at the moment but if they can hold onto their drummer and keep a core group of paddlers together for another 5 years, they'll be feeding it to all those crews who just stick some 105lb eye candy up there.

Thanks Diane

Disagree with me and you are a wannabe, recreational paddler, because I am a real athlete and I know everything.

Kiss my ass.

Why so bitter, Buttercup? Your perception is pretty skewed. How about not being so defensive and consider the possibility that they're giving you helpful information?
The drummer provides continuity, communicating with the steer or coach and translating instructions into cues that paddlers understand and come to expect. If you have a permanent drummer, it's not a disaster if the coach can't be at a practice or race for some reason. It's just business as usual. No matter what you think, it doesn't work as well to have someone from within the boat fill this role.
A crew I paddled with had the same drummer for years then I joined a crew that just threw anyone in the drummers seat. I wondered why there was so much arguing and frustration within the boat during workouts and after races. A lot of the problems come from using transient drummers. They misunderstand the workout or raceplan as provided by the coach, counted down 3,2,1 when the crew expected Up 2, 3... Didn't lean to the boat's left when the crew was right heavy, got the boat dq'd because they forgot or didn't know that the rules of this race required drummers to actually drum for the first 50m, misinterpreted a call for a finish and instead called let it run at the second to last buoy, etc...
If your crew wants to become more competitive, try recruiting a permanent drummer who's good at motivation (it helps if they've also paddled dragon boat at some point).

misinterpreted a call for a finish and instead called let it run at the second to last buoy

Funny, that happened to you too?

Read again, sweatpea. No bitterness there except about the attitude. Argue the pro's and con's of drumming all you like, but don't give me the elitist attitude that if you don't agree with my point of view it's because you're not in my league.

Drummer KEY to success?
- I don't agree.

A good drummer can add to success?
- Sure, no problem.

A crap drummer can hurt your results?
- Agree completely.

If my opinion differs from yours, that means I'm a rec level paddler in an undeveloped recreational "sport"?
- Like I said, kiss my ass.

I agree with you (calm down).

The article ends with "But that’s the glory, she says, of being a talented drummer." This is funny to ready.

I wonder if anyone know the name of the team and who's the coach. I need his comment.

What matters is to have someone in charge. Better than one person, a team of steerer and drummer.

The job of the paddlers is to paddle hard. There are times before and during the race when simple clear instructions or key words help that to happen.

A drummer has to look and act confident and in control. Perhaps a bit scary. It's hard to relax and paddle if you are worried about getting lined up, or when the series will be called or the finish. So, the drummer has to be knowledgeable and skilled.

Depending on the wind conditions, instructions may be heard better from the front or the back so both positions need to be able to call the race. Given a choice, however, I'd rather the steerer concentrated on steering.

These things are as true for experienced "National team" crews as they are for beginners. Only the script is different.

I am wondering why so many people seem to think the coach should be at the back of the boat steering. In my opinion the drummer should be the coach. The steersman should just steer the course decided upon (i.e. straight down your lane or sniff out a wash, etc.) and concentrate on that. Why in the world do you want your coach talking to people's backs in the boat? The drummer can see the paddler's faces, the paddlers can see the drummer's. The paddlers can hear the drummer better. It makes so much more sense. If your coach is a tank then he/she shouldn't be in the boat at the back or front.

Its a TEAM sport, everyone's presence is important!

“In together, in. In together, in,” she commands of her 20-plus paddlers,
20-plus paddlers??

"When most people join, they want to be a paddler, but without a drummer you don’t have a team."
No drummer no team? I guess you need one to race! But by the same token no paddles no race

"And if my team can’t hear me calling out the commands, it’s pretty much chaos."
Does she have to tell them to breathe as well? In together out together!

I think above all else this article diminishes the whole team aspect of the dragon boating culture. It minimizes the effort and commitments of the rest of the team. It’s poor journalism that sensationalizes one member of the team over the rest. I am a firm believer that dragon boating more that most sports does not promote an environment that one member can hold the team up or win a race, it takes the entire team. They all must be a well oiled machine able to carry on even if one component fails or breaks.

Give the poor gal a break. So many teams put dead weight on the drum rather than a good drummer and good drummers don't usually get enough credit for the extra value they can add. Maybe she's trying to counter the common misconception that the drummer isn't important, so you can hardly blame her for beating her own drum!

I've paddled with hum-drum drummers and unbeatable drummers in 10 years time and can tell you that a great drummer is worth his or her weight in gold (medals, that is), just like a good cox in rowing!

I think a cox in rowing has a much greater roll than a drummer. Same with a cox in war canoe.

Its not that she is beating her own drum it’s her down play of the rest of the team. I’m trying to dispel the misconception that paddlers are meatheads and left to their own devices would start paddling backward. Just like in auto racing the drive is important but the condition and the ability of the car is the ultimate decider.

From the Boise Herald Times, July 18, 2006, page C3

" ... Sharon Kenny, 51, of North Jersey,shared her ideas.

'Dragon boat is a team sport, and everyone has to do their part. We all think positive and try our hardest and our dreams can come true. Everyone is important. But our coach, Dean Gestern, has a special name for the gals at the back. He calls us the six pack and says that we are the most important people in the boat because we start the finish. We give the kick that gets the engine room guys moving. I used to think that they put us in the back because we are older and weaker, but Coach Dean fixed that idea. So look out for our six pack next time you see the Cougar Cats race.'

The Cougar Cats and 46 other crews will be rowing down the Jersey River in the Coors Dragon Boat Races on Sunday. Free admission."

"The Cougar Cats and 46 other crews will be ROWING down the Jersey River in the Coors Dragon Boat Races on Sunday. Free admission."

Its not fucking rowing..its paddling.. fuck if you are writing an article at least get the
fucking sport RIGHT

I vote for the hot chick in the drummers seat (I would say that she should be topless but that would lack the class that this forum deserves)

Big Fish
A group of rowers. We love racing in these rowing competitions! We will row to victory in Montreal! Rowing in dragon boats is great!

This is obviously a joke.

"I think a cox in rowing has a much greater roll than a drummer. Same with a cox in war canoe."

Is that a drum roll or did you mean "role"?

You should race with a good drummer - you might change your tune.

And for you "Change...":

Sure, meathead paddlers can paddle well without a good drummer but a truly good drummer can really get the paddlers fired up even more!

For the record, I do paddle (10+ years), have drummed (admittedly not very well compared to some good drummers on other teams) and coach.

"A group of rowers. We love racing in these rowing competitions! We will row to victory in Montreal! Rowing in dragon boats is great!"

Row, row, row the boat while I beat the drum. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, dragon boating's fun!

(Or for the more negatively-minded among us, "...your forum posts are dumb!")

To July 19th, Angry Dude. It was a joke. On many levels. Not the least of which was your predictable response. Bet that was a joke too.

Gotta love the silly people on this forum. I wonder if they would be as rude to me in person?

See you at WCCC? I have a special oar just for international events.

hmm... you should try making your jokes funny then.

Ok smart ass, you had a joke on many fucking levels. Which fucking level was the funny one. it doesn't fucking matter anyways, because nothing is fucking funny in angry dude's world. I thought you fucking idiots knew that by now.

If you want angry dude to leave then pay fucking attention to these rules.

1. No fucking sarcasm allowed. (If any of you fucking shits try to say that this is ironic coming from me, you can go fuck yourselves)

2. No fucking pretending to be some-fucking-body else. This means no fucking pretending to be fucking me!!

3. No fucking pretending NOT to be some fucking body. You can't fucking pretend that you are NOT some lame asshole from PDBC and merely fucking standing up for them, when you really are one those fuckwads.

4. No fucking pretending to be a fucking fan of someone. Fucking dragon boat fans don't fucking exist. Especially not on this fucking forum. This is a haters forum, so fuck off. The only fucking person any of you fuckers love is yourself.

5. No fucking debating about how team A rules because team A beat fucking team B but team B beat team C who are fuckinng assholes and Team C beat team A but only because they had a bunch of flattie jerks so they could blow Team D who lost to team B.

6. No fucking whining about how your fucking time on the stupid fucking power rankings aren't accurate because you fucking beat another fucking team once head to head and but they were ranked fucking ahead of you poor lame ass boat.

7. No fucking bitching about how fucking fat dragon-fucking-boaters are compared to facking flat water fucknuts.

8. No fucking pointing out that fucking flat water paddlers will fucking end up wahsing fucking cars while you the ever so self rightous fucking dragon boating plays with fucking computers all fucking day.

9. No fucking posts laced with fucking grammatical errors.

10. No calling someone fucking "gay" as an insult. That is so fucking grade 2. If you fucking want to fucking insult someone call them a fucking idiot, that way the only fucking one you discriminate against are the fucking idiots.

11. No fucking loving the angry dude. Fucking hate me and everything will be fucking great.

Now fuck off!!

marry me?

You are the best. Love ya.

keys to drummers success. just shut up and repeat what the coach says.

your the best!

Idiot.

What if drummer is coach?

Try: Key to steersman's success. Steer where coach/drummer tells you to go.

What about the topless idea, is that OK?

what kind of idiot coach drums. why would u want to let someone else steer?

a good coach...that's not too big of course. steering is easy. from the front everyone can hear you and you can see the race better.

What kind of idiot, to use your word, likes to speak to people's backs and try to coach from behind. Not nearly as effective as from the front. A good coach, if light enough will drum and try to get someone else competent to steer.

The lack of intelligence and common sense with regard to this sport is staggering on this forum.

lets look at a 2km race. would any coach in their right mind want to give up control of their boat to someone else? In every race, even more so in a 2k, the most important role is the steersperson. I could not imagine coaching a 2km from the front while giving all the control and decision making to a non coach cox. The person steering the boat could win any race by themselves, a drummer could not. The coach is in control of all the calls being made in a race so it only makes sense that the coach is also in control of the direction the boat is heading.

That being said, of course having a good drummer matters. But I would rather have a bad drummer than a bad cox. I highly doubt a drummer could actually win a race for a team.

The coach is in charge of the paddlers. The line taken in a race can be handled separately (if you're just playing it straight) or co-ordinated with the coach, and therefore the paddlers, if you're doing something tricky.

Actually makes sense to have two people with different roles. Too much to think about when things get hairy if you try to do both.

Just a thought.

Races are often won and lost by milliseconds. Wash is a natural part of this sport. So if the coach isn't the cox, he/she will need to signal to the cox to change direction to hop on/off or take away wash from opposing crews. These precious seconds can be the difference between winning and losing. Much quicker to simply move your hand and change the boat as soon as you think about it.

Also outside of Doug Tutty, name another top flight coach who sits at the front?

Now lets name the top coaches who steer their own crews (no particular order):

Mac Hickox
Jim Farintosh
Blake Hara
Scott Ford
Rob Chang
Brian Urbanik
Diggs
Matt Smith
Matt Robert

Pay attention.
Let's look at the facts. Take Scott Ford for example, and then maybe extrapolate from there. For the last few weeks I've seen Scott sit at the front and have someone else (who shall remain namely to protect the innocent) steer. Same guy steered for Blake. Why? I don't know.

But if I were to guess, I'd say money. Costs a lot to pay a coach AND a steersperson.

I chuckled at some of the posts above. Coach on the drum telling the steerer to get on wash, ya, I'd love to see that. And I don't think it is "in the steerers hand to win a race" -- maybe more accurate to say a steersperson can LOSE a race.

That's because you probably don't coach. In practices its better to be at the front. Your focus is on paddler development. In races its better to be at the back beacuse you can see what's going on in front and behind you since strategy and execution is the issue now.

oops. I meant beside not behind

all of those coaches listed above should not be on the drum they are too big. If they could, i'm sure some of them would sit up front.