Did Hanalei implode again?
Did the Mofos follow up with another strong performance?
Did Lane 1 come back strong after showing up with few of its returning members?
Did the loaded Peking Duck crew steal the show?
Was Riptide denied?
Did the self promoting Stratford Juniors get put in their place?

The A final was Mix the Fondue over Hanalei by 18/100 of a second. Toronto Masters and MOFOs were close in third and fourth, respectivly.

Lane 1 didn't make the A division, but they did turn in the quickest time on the day at 2:12 something in their final.

Riptide was not denied!!

A
1 Mix the Fondue
2 Hanalei
3 Masters
4 Mofos

A Cons
5 Shockwave 1
6 Golden Plate Warriors
7 TAD
8 Strokin Sea Monkeys

B
9 Lane One
10 Chaos (-5 sec bonus?)
11 Raging Dragons of Chatham Kent
12 Shockwave 2 (+5 sec penalty?)

B Cons
13 Peking Duck
14 Blades
15 FSN
16 Cobourg Dbc

Wow, Hanalei results have been dissappointing as of late. What will happen to them next year? Will they break up? Will any other teams break up?

Can't blame Hanalei, they raced 3 amazing races. First 2 races they were able to jump out ahead and not get sucked in by the other teams but in the finals, they couldn't do the same and the times showed (2:14's vs 2:18)

They came in second in a competative final a fraction after a loaded team that rode wash until near the finish - implode?

I wonder where dragon boat is going with team mixing it up and having better results then their own mix teams. With Mix the Fondue picking up a win here and with back to back wins with Rip the Fondue at GWN for their Men's conglomerate and their ladies taking A consulation will see new teams next year ???

At other events you saw Jet Start and Chaos get together for Tailgaters and do extremely well.

Being at Stratford and at some other Dragon boat festival where teams mix it up, have a lot of fun and are having great results........ looks like an interesting approach?

Thoughts ?

So the Mofo's lost to the blue rinse Masters. Aren't they grand-masters?

Is this an example of age before (self-described)beauty or is it experience over ego?

"I wonder where dragon boat is going with team mixing it up and having better results then their own mix teams. With Mix the Fondue picking up a win here and with back to back wins with Rip the Fondue at GWN for their Men's conglomerate and their ladies taking A consulation will see new teams next year ???"

I believe they will be good, but not as good as teams like Scotia, Imps etc .. the teams that stay together.

Maybe if u mix 2 teams (or rather 2 strokes), it could work. However, any more and it falls apart. It's just taking the strongest of the 2 or 3.

Teams that train together though, you will know the dynamics and optimize the starts, finishes, etc. can't compare that to mixed teamms.

QUOTED FROM 2005 THREAD BY SEAT 5.

Just swap out some names and add a couple new results. Nothing has changed at the avon. It can be a twlight zone for some teams.

------------------

Stratford summary: Great day, great weather, great competition, great Jello.

Oh, and the Silvermasters won their own hardware so we didn't have to keep quite as close an eye our ours.

Loads of great paddlers came out to play and it was great to see so many familiar faces sprinkled here and there amongst all sorts of teams.

On a more technical note, the Avon is a weird race venue. The effects boats have on each other can produce some odd race results.

Witness:
-Jetstart couldn't break away from Swordfish and Red Dragons and nearly lose their first heat at 2:25. They go on to race the Blades twice and swap wins at 2:21 and 2:23. End result: the entire B final ends up faster than A-consolation (I know, different heats, can't compare times, blah, blah...).
-Torpedo, Golden Plate, FAG and Peking Duck, after posting times in the low 2:20s all day, battle each other all the way down the course in A-consolation and cross the finish line at 2:25-2:26.
-PDBC walks away with their first heat with a 2:15, manages a 2:23 mired in their second heat and trades 2:19s with Lane One in the Final.
-Hanalei posts decent, but not awesome, first and second heat times and procedes to demolish the A-final by about 6 feet of open water and an astounding 2:11.

Taking the lead right from the start is paramount in Stratford. Clean water is the ticket to a (relatively) quick time. Otherwise, it looks like competing wakes disturb nearby boats and slow everyone down. It's not really wash-riding; it's more like wash interference.

Anyway, awesome day everybody and congratulations to the Juniors and FAG on what I thought were some really stand-out performances!

Breaking away is key to success.

Perfect example from this weekend. Lane 1's first two races were 2:23 anc change. In the finals, they were able to break away and paddled the fastest time of the day 2:12 and change.

Stratford IS the a really bad race course, but teams still participate at this venue.

It's very difficult to break away from the pack at Stratford. If you can break away early you are in for an easy victory but if you try and fail to break away you waste a lot of energy and are susceptible to being overtaken later by a team that conserved their energy. I'm not saying that's why Hanalei didn't win because I didn't see the race but that is a belief I hold about the Stratford race course.

With Lane 4 and 3 you hit the sand bank near the 350m mark, whereas with Lane 2 and 1 you hit the sand bank near the beginning.

http://www.rotarystratford.com/dragonboat/results.htm

Breaking away is key. Lane 1 and Peking Duck were able to do it in their finals. Hanalei just go sucked into the pack.

Fondue won Stratford over Hanalei, their men took GWN and their ladies finished in A consol?
Where did this team come from?
Me want Fondue!

Results of this race are fluky at best, as Hanalei was clearly the team to beat. With such an unfair race course, teams come here to drink and enjoy themselves (sometimes throughout the day), since it's such a crapshoot. No offense, but in a real race, Hanalei wouldn't be close to the same division as those that were next to them. Talk of an implosion is nonsense.

When another boat gets up tight on your wash it's virtually impossible to shake them on this course. It has the twin effect of holding faster teams to slower times and dragging slower teams to faster times. With the shallow water there's often a single flat wave that pushes whole heats down the course together.

Hanalei managed to brake free of the pack in their semi, but they couldn't shake Fondue in the final. Fondue pretty much sat on Hanalei for the first 300 m (glancing buoys on the left of their lane) and shot ahead when they hit Lane 1's good water.

They took full advantage of the lax officiating and the course and they hand enough to horespower to hold off Hanalei at the finish... coxing tactics played a big role in that win, but a win is a win so good on them.

A win is a win...good on them! I agree.
Just checked race results for GWN. How do you explain the guys and ladies of Fondew for GWN then?
And are the ladies hot?

"slower team to have faster times..."
yes but Fondue was able to shave off a second for each of their 3 races
I'd say that's pretty consistent
if hanalei is going through re-org and it's refecting their results, c'est la vie
we've all been there
when you're on top, the only way is down
let's give the under dog some respect!

Let's have a little perspective about the unisex races at GWN, many of the favourites there were racing with half of their normal crews because of GWN' scheduling . I know at least 2 teams who were grabbing absolutely anyone with a penis to hop in their boat.

For heavens sake please stop baiting around for Riptide/Fondue flames. We all know lukewarm is being generous but they are nice people. Let them enjoy Stratford for what it is.

saw them from awards stage. lane 5 gwn. looked solid.
cute drummer. some crazy girls. everyone on stage for men's medals. looked like fun.
congrats to them

Paddlers from what teams participated on The Mix Fondue?

i think it was hydrophobic and riptide

hydro, riptide, shogun.

"A win is a win...good on them! I agree.
Just checked race results for GWN. How do you explain the guys and ladies of Fondew for GWN then?
And are the ladies hot?"


YES THE LADIES ARE HOT!

Mix the Fondue are bunch of wannabies, wankers who can't win with their respective teams.....sad.

Look people~
Mix the Fondu WON~ PERIOD. it is a well known fact that stratford a crappy race course, well boo hoo~ if you/ the team can't handle it. if those who are bitching is such a good paddlers / teams ,then under any circumstances you should be able to win and pull through~

all these bitching about how the course is not fair, "Mix the Fondue are bunch of wannabies, wankers who can't win with their respective teams.....sad." just show how bitter and sore loser some people are.

hey remember the team is call MIX the fondu, so what if the crews are mixed? why don't you try mixing up your team? dragonboat is all about meeting new people. learning new techniques, having fun with other teams.

.....maybe no one like your team......hences.... no one want to join or mix with you guys. lol.. i wonder which team are being hated or dislike that much....hm.....

Congrats to Fondue on the win. They did look very solid. However it still has to be said that the victory was more about clever coxing and easygoing officiating than paddling.

Hanalei did 2:14 in qualifying while Fondue did 2:21. In the semis Hanalei repeated their 2:14 and Fondue, beside them in lane 1, dropped to 2:19.

In the final, same lanes again, Fondue this time got over into Hanalei's water right off the start and rode them, to borrow a phrase, like a rented mule. Fondue disrupted Hanalei's water enough to drag them down to their level. It was the only way a 2:19 was going to be good enough to win that final.

So while I offer congrats to Fondue on the win, I admire Hanalei for their paddling.

Hey,

why do we even need Riptide, Shogun, or Hydro....just axe those teams and replace it with Fondue! They are not A material anywaz....espcially riptide.......

Why do we even need %90 of the teams, they are not A division teams. You're such an idiot! Why do we even need you! Your village is calling you back. They are missing their village idiot.

"Results of this race are fluky at best, as Hanalei was clearly the team to beat. With such an unfair race course, teams come here to drink and enjoy themselves (sometimes throughout the day), since it's such a crapshoot. No offense, but in a real race, Hanalei wouldn't be close to the same division as those that were next to them. Talk of an implosion is nonsense."

Then why didn't Hanalei spank the pants off those team @ GWN? Hydrophobics, Shogun, Shockwave. Sorry folks, when you start comparing Hanalei to those teams, then I'd say they are staring to implode. No knocking the three other teams, they are great, but Hanalei in previous incarnations would have knocked the pants off of those teams. If they want to be at the top again, they have to restructure like last year. I'd like to see a few new teams at the top though. Its always the same old teams there, with the pleasant surprise of Sudbury rising quickly to the top. Shogun apparantly couldn't keep it up there and repeat last year's performance.

"Why do we even need %90 of the teams, they are not A division teams. You're such an idiot! Why do we even need you! Your village is calling you back. They are missing their village idiot."

Your an idiot. I was only talking about those 3 teams. They thrive to be A but......sad

You are proving yourself to being the real village idiot. First you make a stupid statement and then you back it up with another stupid statement. So only those 3 teams are striving to make it to A? What about the other 100 teams that are below them. They are happy where they are and not want to move up? And if they can't make it to A they should dissolve their teams and quit. So the only teams that should stay together are the teams in A division? You're so stupid you probably don't even understand what you're talking about. Your IQ is so low you can legally be considered retarded!!

He sounds like a MOFO.....

Bottom line at Stratford is that if you get stuck in the pack it doesn't matter how much better you are than the rest of the field you will not be able to pull away. This is by far the worst venue out there which is why I have not been in nearly 10 years.

All races look the same coming down the course in a pack. BORING.

"When another boat gets up tight on your wash it's virtually impossible to shake them on this course. It has the twin effect of holding faster teams to slower times and dragging slower teams to faster times. With the shallow water there's often a single flat wave that pushes whole heats down the course together."

Now I understand the concept of wash riding, but how far would a trailing boat be in order to ride wash, is it 1 seat behind, 6 seats behind? I'm sure that it varies based on the race course too, lane width, ghost lanes, depth, but whats the usual?

What really got me interested was this twin effect of slowing down teams. How does that work? If a slower team is riding wash, they would also be dragging down the faster team? Therefore, the slower team gets all the benefit of this twin effect. But wouldn't the slower team eventually trying to get ahead, also be held back by this effect? I'm really curious how this works, and what race courses this actually happens at?

if someone is so much better how do they get stuck in the pack?

Toronto area people race in Stratford because they like the place and the friendly people who run the event. Since there are only 16 local teams out of 84 teams, it is evident that most people who race there from Toronto go there despite the bizarre course conditions. Kudos for the winners for using good strategy to win the event...wash riding at its best. Shockwave "B" hit Chaos during the race which explains the interesting 5 second time adjustments for both those crews. The organizers are fine people who listen and run a nice event. They even accomodate the out of towners by giving them late race starts if they make the request.We shall be back next year.

"Taking the lead right from the start is paramount in Stratford. Clean water is the ticket to a (relatively) quick time. Otherwise, it looks like competing wakes disturb nearby boats and slow everyone down. It's not really wash-riding; it's more like wash interference."

This is too true.

So when you race in Stratford, you give it your best and you take your chances. If you can get out ahead early, your odds of moving up increase dramatically. Otherwise, anything can happen.

Wow, what happened to Lane 1? I though they were suppose to be a pretty stacked crew, they always done well in the past Stratford regettas. From the results, they posted a very good time in their Final.

Bonding takes time. Apparantly they needed 3 races, just like Peking Duck.

Therefore, the slower team gets all the benefit of this twin effect. But wouldn't the slower team eventually trying to get ahead, also be held back by this effect? I'm really curious how this works, and what race courses this actually happens at?



When the jump off the wash they are pushed ahead faster than the team beside them(think roller derby) and are able to surge ahead.

On this course, lane 1 is slow for the first 250m, and lane 2 is slow for the last 150m. So If lane 1 can hang on by riding wash for the first half of the race, then they will be close enough to shoot ahead later on.

A middle lane is slower than a lane closer to the shore? Please explain this to me......What measurements have you made to prove this?

Must be the guy from the idiot village

I agree with this poster:

Hanalei did 2:14 in qualifying while Fondue did 2:21. In the semis Hanalei repeated their 2:14 and Fondue, beside them in lane 1, dropped to 2:19.

No WAY can Fondue beat Hanalei in an even race. Stratford was not a race.

How could a team make up 5-7 seconds...

Wow. You leave the forum for a week and look what happens!

Now I have to clean up all the urban legends....
To "Dragon Boat Future" (sept17, 11:16am) Tailgaitors is not "Jetstart and Chaos", although there are a few paddlers from each of those teams. There are also at least 3 other teams, like Mojos, Blades and me (nonpartisan). But yes, it is an interesting approach and good for the sport.

To "Anon" (sept17 12:02pm) Maybe, but maybe not. Only time will tell if a group of mixed teams can compete, but as more team continue to get better coaching, and the coaching continues to improve, the paddlers on different teams will begin to have more similar strokes which will make it easier to mix it up.

To "Anon" (sept18 11:41am) Yes, Peking Ducks needed to bond, but nothing that a few beers and some banana bread with chocolate chips couldn't solve

To MTF, my hat's off. For a team to paddle out half way to the start, discover their boat is leaking like a seive, paddle back, change boats, and still have the composure to pull off a victory takes mental toughness and poise.

To Hanalei, great race. They charged out of the start and made the field keep up. Classy to the end, no regrets, only accolades. A good bunch of paddlers.

To Masters and Mofos, nicely done in challenging lanes. I think we can all agree that lane 4 is the kiss of death, and both teams kept there heads up and finished strong.

To Stratford, great work. The event was run on time, lots of volunteers, good officiating, and the straightest course I've seen at the venue. One complaint -- when boats hit in a FINAL race, why not DQ the offending team and re-run the race?

Wow, that was the period to the thread.

RE: 10:32 AM's question.

I'm no expert on this, but I'll take a stab at.

Dragon boats displace large amounts of water and this is the primary obstacle when moving a boat. Doing so requires power to push water away and around the bow and to pull away from the water sucking back in at the stern.

Each molecule of water moved by the boat follows the path of least resistance until it's out of the way. As it moves it pushes other molecules that have been pushed aside before and those molecules push others that were pushed before and so on. The boat's wake and the suction cavity at the stern are evidence of this movement.

When another boat moves in close (even if they're behind) they disrupt this movement, thereby making the displacement of water around the boat more difficult. The "mule" crew is therefore slowed AND forced to work much harder for any gains.

Another contributing factor on a shallow course like Stratford could be that two boats in close lateral proximity may simply trap themselves in a mutually created wave system. High displacement craft create troughs between their bow and stern wake. Maybe two boats together created a single trough that neither boat could power through. In that case they were trapped within a row or two of each other and the winner was simply the team with the best final surge.

When you say something like this, you offend everyone who participates.
A race is a race you idiot. With statements like this, you could eliminate most festivals because of "insert X factor" here and say that it was not a race and that in a real race team A would beat team B.

"I agree with this poster:
Hanalei did 2:14 in qualifying while Fondue did 2:21. In the semis Hanalei repeated their 2:14 and Fondue, beside them in lane 1, dropped to 2:19.
No WAY can Fondue beat Hanalei in an even race. Stratford was not a race.
How could a team make up 5-7 seconds..."

Hey village idiot, are you at it again? 2:21 to 2:19, how is that 5-7 seconds. What math school did you go to? Fondue got 2:21 in lane 4 the worst lane and 2:19 in lane 1 the second worst lane. You're right it was not an even race, Hanalei had the better lane. Maybe you should stop posting.

"On this course, lane 1 is slow for the first 250m, and lane 2 is slow for the last 150m. So If lane 1 can hang on by riding wash for the first half of the race, then they will be close enough to shoot ahead later on."

WTF?! I think we can safely say that lane 4 sucks for the last 150m, and lane 1 sucks for the 250m. But lane 2 being slower than lane 1 for the last 150m?! Next you'll tell us lane 3 is really bad for the first 250 and last 150 or maybe that lane 1 the closest to shore, thereby making it shallower, actually is the fastest lane. Now I get it shallower/closer to shore = faster, thats the way to go for lanes.

Number of wins per lane.

Lane 1- 15
Lane 2-20
Lane 3-15
Lane 4-3

People who say lane 1 is slow, are you on crack?

Lane 1 posted the fastest time of the day - must be something in the jello.

Stratford is the best way to close the season regardless of how crappy the water is, so stop bitchin's people!

Just go with the flow for once & have fun.

Lane stats are skewed by the fact that in second and third rounds the top teams were seeded into middle lanes.

Lane 4 was the worst. Lane 1 was pretty good if you could get through the first 200m... which is why teams that did well in lane 1 were virtually in lane 2 on the front half of the course.

I don't think many teams go to Stratford with any illusions about the conditions. It's a fun season capper in a beautiful setting and you live with the shallow water and enjoy your jello shooters. It's always a fun day.

My only complaint is that officials should be tougher about keeping teams in the middle of their lanes. It was a free for all out there by the final round. Shockwave 2 even hit Chaos while trying to get over on their wash. It shouldn't take a smash up for a team to be penalized, especially given the way wash riding can drag down a faster crew.

"When the jump off the wash they are pushed ahead faster than the team beside them(think roller derby) and are able to surge ahead."

I totally understand the part of jumping off the wash, but if there's a twin effect of wave interference/drag, they wouldn't be able to surge ahead right? Because they would also have this drag situation, I mean the drag is exclusive to the previous leading team, all teams would be affected. At least I would think so.

Re: Simpleton's response

That certainly makes a lot of sense. As someone mentioned previously that maybe Stratford is more about wave interference than wash riding. With the shallow depths, and the sand barges at the beginning and end of the different lanes this makes it very plausible, as opposed to the regular wash riding. Though I would have to believe that the if this "wave interference" does occur then all teams would be affected. And the team that eventually is able to pull ahead, probably just had a bit more kick at the end. Its very interesting indeed, though I'm starting to think too much, time to shut up and paddle

RIP RIP RIP IT UP! SHE GOT RIPPED.

What happens in Vegas, er, I mean Stratford, stays in Stratford...

Hey....Isn't that the chick that wanted contact info for Steve from Hanalei?

I guess she found him!!!!

Can of Pepsi...$1
Bottle of Canadian...$2
Case of 24...$30

Jello shooters and having a pic of your drunk ass on the forum....priceless

Heh, funny pic.
I have to admit participating in Stratford for PURE racing exhilaration is not a priority.
Despite racing last year and knowing the conditions, I somehow still expected to get a non bias, fair lane race. After huffing and puffing for about 15 mins, realized that Stratford was a good way to cap off the season. People are laid back, paddlers are friendly (well actually they always are, just the forum posters are... a different animal). Here's to Stratford and a good time.

so long as she knows how to quaff a jello shooter she can be on our team any day!

Stratford was a fun event as usual this year!

The shallow water at Stratford relative to most other regattas definitely changes the dynamics of the race but it's not fair to say Stratford isn't a real race. Everyone still tries to win. The difference is that in Stratford there is more importance placed on race strategy due to the fact that it's so difficult to break away from the pack. If you expect a race plan at Stratford to have the same result as it would at Welland I think you will only get frustrated. It's a different beast.

Mix the fondue did what everyone tried to do which is win so they deserve some credit.

Hanalei destroyed everybody in the first two rounds so the talk about "imploding" is crazy. Only a handful of teams managed to break away from the pack and they did it twice including the semi finals.

Congrats to everyone who raced and had fun. Despite some of the BS that goes on in this forum, there are a lot of people who have shown good sportsmanship in winning and in losing, to keep this sport going. I'm actually glad that we have a forum such as this becasue at least that way, we keep all you fricking idiots together.

Matt for president.

Just to clarify, my post about wake and wash riding was just something I thought was intresting to share and discuss. The point wasn't to moan about Stratford outcomes or lanes. For anyone curious about how boats move through water, these two links were a good start for me:

http://www.greenval.com/jwinters.html

http://boatbuilding.com/article.php/ShapeoftheCanoe

Very interesting links

Another great part of the Stratford race were the fans!

missed that sign, damn!

I don't think you'd want to be serviced by her anyways.

Why not? She doesn't give good head?

hope you boys have daughters some day..... then let's see if you'd repeat the stuff you've written here.... karma, baby....

i heard there was a collison with 2 boats in stratford, what happened to the boats?

the cox of both the boats got distracted by the fan with sign fortunately nobody was hurt!

Washriding gone wrong by Shockwave 2 into Team Chaos.

That damn sign holder!

Alot of talk about what happened with Hanelei in the final. They didn't break away on the start like the first two races. Which wern't close. No finish called in the semi. Which including last year is three very easy races for this team at Stratford. They were focused going into the final but perhaps too relaxed and didn't break out off the start. In a close race with narrow lanes like at Stratford it becomes a steering dual. On this particular day i wasn't at my best and was out done by Joel. Who deserves alot of credit in that race. Congrats to the Winners and Joel. My appologies to Hanalei. Hope we can give it another try next year.
Cheers
p.s. and yes the jello was amazing!