So what happened on day 1?

races were cancelled...

1 Events Alive 2:02.55
2 Dragon Beasts 2:02.89
3 Canadian Senior Dragonboat Club - Mixed 2:03.28
4 SCC Team Chiropractic 2:03.41
5 Wong's DBC Dragon Slayers 2:06.95
6 Imperial Dragons 2:07.20
7 Verdun DBC - Adrenaline 2:08.38
8 3R Dragon 2:08.97
9 Gung Ho-Barrhaven/Eagleson Dental Associates 2:09.59
10 PADDLE DEMONS 2:10.54

Overall Rank
Rank Team Name Result
1 Events Alive 2:02.55
2 Dragon Beasts 2:02.89
3 Canadian Senior Dragonboat Club - Mixed 2:03.28
4 SCC Team Chiropractic 2:03.41
5 Wong's DBC Dragon Slayers 2:06.95
6 Imperial Dragons 2:07.20
7 Verdun DBC - Adrenaline 2:08.38
8 3R Dragon 2:08.97
9 Gung Ho-Barrhaven/Eagleson Dental Associates 2:09.59
10 PADDLE DEMONS 2:10.54
11 Cascades Women (W) 2:10.84
12 ADRENALINE Dräger Medical 2:11.51
13 CASCADES GRAND MASTERS 2:12.26
14 Team Chaos 2:12.54
15 Compuware Montreal Dragon (W) 2:12.55
16 BMO Groupe financier 2:14.23
17 Canadian Senior Dragonboat Club - (W) 2:15.81
18 Sudbury Canoe Club Dragons 2:15.89
19 RBC Comets 2:16.33
20 Phoenix ETS 2:16.56
21 WRCC Master's A 2:16.84
22 Junior Achievement Komodo Dragons 2:16.87
23 Outer Harbour Senior Women (W) 2:17.89
24 HSBC HOLY SMOKIN' BOATIN' CREW 2:18.21
25 PanaCEAA 2:18.37
26 Old Skul'd 2:19.72
27 All Fired Up! 2:20.28
28 Montreal Thunder 2:20.30
29 PADDLE DEMONS II 2:20.34
30 Fleet of Foote 2:20.36

Hey Rouge.

Welcome to reality

Events ends up edging out the Beasts (2nd) and Seniors (3rd).

It was all about the rate at the finish. Those young kids brought it up with 100 to go and were untouchable. Great challenge by the Beasts and Seniors.

It was also great seeing the Imperial Dragons and other solid TO crews coming down to Ottawa as well as the usual Montreal and Sudbury contingeant. Hope everyone had a good time, the Ottawa festival has truely become one of the best (if not the best) in the country. All thanks to the progressive attitude of the organizers - who even put up a giant tent over the staging area for protection against sun and rain as paddlers had suggested last year. Very cool.

One hell of a great weekend of racing,...

Events Alive really pulled it off. It was something to see. As far as festivals go thier is Ottawa, and then thier is everyone else. What they pulled off this weekend including all the entertainment and childrens area provided something for everyone. Did you see that beer garden? I was amazing. I am not sure how they do it but all other festivals need to model Ottawa. It will be interesting to see what they do with the feedback on the race format as it is different than everyone else. They are know to listen so time will tell.

me too it like

A final results anyone? Not just top 3 I mean

1. Dragon Beasts 1:59.70
2. Events Alive 1:59.98
3. Canadian Senior DB 2:00.23
4. SCC Chiro 2:00.38
5. Imperial Dragons 2:01.03
6. Wongs 2:03
7. Verdun 2:03
8. 3R 2:04

which race were you watching?
race 81 results (championship finals):
Events Alive 1:58.99
Dragon Beasts 1:59.22
CSDC 1:59.70
SCC Chiro 2:00.28
Imps 2:01.03
Verdun 2:03.04
Wong's Dragon Slayers 2:03.64
3R 2:04.62

I heard that a boat was slowly sinking in the championship final and the crew had to get a replacement boat. Any further news on this? Was it sinking all day or did it get damaged in the last race before the final? How did they figure out it was sinking?

The Ottawa volunteers are great, the event has a great venue, but I won't be back. The organizers are arrogant, officious pr**ks, surpassing FMG with Nazi-like enforcement of nonsense rules.

One rec crew came all the way from Toronto and was DQed for paddling in the first race with 19 paddlers. When they protested they were told 'we didn't ask you to come'.

When Phoenix-ETS came in from their final, their boat had taken in a significant amount of water. When the plug off of the the flotation tank below where the steersperson stands was removed, we discovered the tank was completely full of water and took well over a minute to empty out. Regardless, we paddled the boat out to the start but when we began paddling out, the hull of the boat was vibrating, causing the boat to produce a loud humming noise. We unplugged the tank and discovered that it was again filling up with water. The officials then allowed us to paddle back and get a proper boat and it was paddled away by race officials to be examined.

But Jason your crew did get a replacement boat with no leaks – RIGHT!

Is there a direct link to a pdf or page with full results?

http://www.dragonboat.net/results.php

Sunday results are not up as yet..

We got a proper boat for the final.

Some of the old BUK's are starting to show their age. Savvy crews now unplug the bow and stern....cavities (what the hell do you call those anyhow?) and drain out the water before they race.

We used to think that any race with GWN boats was inherently fair because the boats were well maintained and fast, but now we're seeing that some have been kicked around a bit and are getting slow.

Buyer beware.

p.s. nothing against GWN here, but I think they need to start retiring some of their older fleet boats.

I agree, the organizers of this event definitely are arrogant.

This is a great event for rec teams looking to get drunk. A bad event for racers. Very poor officiating. Starter let everything go, referees made no attempt to keep boats in the middle of their lanes (good thing mac wasn't there), and competitive crews raced each 5 times....

Okay!

Jason Thank You and the Phoenix-ETS crew for an excellent weekend of racing! You were the only crew that we raced in every heat. You folks pushed us and we had to step-up to the plate.

See you again on the water and let’s share a beer or two the next time we meet.

Ottawa was an excellent festival and we will be back.

Cheers,
Michael, Komodo Dragons

Here are a few things from the weekend

1 - Saturday: cold and windy. Gotta love the Capital in the summer
2 - Great retail/eats area
3 - Huge beer and music tent
4 - Results screens the rotated race results from the entire day plus best times was a great touch
5 - As was the tent over the pre-race area
6 - Loads of room
7 - Beach locale = bikinis. Love the Frech ladies (tried really hard not to say that ....... hey, I made it to #7!)
8 - Great
9 - 100m sprint is a STUPID distance
10 - Great volunteers that cheered us at the docks going and coming back
11 - Great mix of teams
12 - Some of the surliest officials ever. I think they are related to Stalin ..
13 - NNB as in: Need New Boats. Our bulkheads back and front we full each race.

All and all, great time.

Lol! Your rec team was upset when you got disqualified by not having enough paddlers? Maybe you should have read the rules ahead of time and made sure 20 people made the trip.

I agree that the starter was bad. They should get a credible official.

don't think a lot of the competitive teams will be back.

then again, doubt that the organizers will care.

The organizers do care and do read the forum so let em know what they can improve to get you back.

Officiating (and maybe boat quality) is the only thing I can think of. Everything else is much better than any other festival!!!

This was an amazing festival, folks....

Organizers are pri**s? Whatever!!! I was embarrassed to be a paddler when I saw what staff was putting up with from US. As a group, I cannot believe what whiny babies paddlers can be.

"One rec crew came all the way from Toronto and was DQed for paddling in the first race with 19 paddlers"

Well, Duh! READ THE RULES,PEOPLE!!! How many warning and reminders are needed from the festival staff? If you couldn't be bothered to read the rules and ensure that your boat was well equipped and prepared, then why should they?

And if they didn't DQ them - how many of us would scream because of the inequality?

Trying to keep over 4000 paddlers happy must be a huge chore, and I am always happy at this festival. Organizers keep listening to our requests and constantly improve things, volunteers are amazing, and I have nothing but respect for the fantastic staff.

On top of it all, it is a FUN time! Can't ask for much more.

I concur. This was a great festival. Yes the starter at times was a but harsh, but you have to set up the boundaries considering there were so many teams. Follow the rules and you get a great race.

Coming from Toronto, it was nice to see such a festival so well organized. Plentiful and decent smelling port-a-potties, however some of the taps ran dry at the end of sunday. Announcing was lacking 'Lane 5 seems to be dominating, but the real race is happening for places 2, 3 and 4' However, it was funny at the end of the festival where the announcers started cheering out "Bom Chicka Wah Wah" Having Tom Petty and the variety of Jazz bands there was classy.

Major gripes about the festival:
They should have thought about a way of giving the medals to the out-of-town teams instead of waiting out the entire presentation ceremony. As much as we wanted to see them hand the cup to Event's Alive, we really needed to get as early of a start on our drive back to Toronto.
The Shuttle service seemed to have virtually stopped at 4:00. This caused an inconvenience for the teams that needed to get back to the parking lots. We ended up fighting other teams for the limited cabs that went by.

Overall, it was a positive experience, I would like to return to this festival in the future.

Held starts.



Fast boats should race with each other earlier in the weekend.



Weekend resume:


Great 'festival'

Ottawa is certainly creating quite a buzz for a well run event and that is because it is indeed a well run event that many should attend.
It is well organized, good facilities and entertainment.
That having been said, there is always room for improvement. (no particular order)
1) While it is tough for the volunteers and officials, making a shorter lunch will ensure a slightly shorter day and hopefully avoid those 3-5 hour "breaks" between each competitor's races.

2) held starts should balance out any poor start official

3) for the sprints, having top 8 is enough, it got confusing in the lanes plus the sprint should be 200 or 250. 100 is just not a good boat distance.

4) louder megaphone for the starter, let's not forget it is 8 lanes across, it could be tough to hear in the outer lanes, especially if there are some loud teams while on the standby/start line. This is the same for the horn.

I am kind of on the fence about the strictness on the enforcement of rules. I mean there are a lot of rec teams out there who are just here for what everyone should be here for and that is fun. Why DQ them when there is no thought of them moving on, they just want to go out there and paddle and have fun. Then again, I can see that relaxing on some rules could lead to more problems too so not sure what to think there.

overall, great festival as has been the last few years.

What possible problem could it be for an out-of-town team to paddle with 19 paddlers?

totally agreed with a previous poster!!
not sure where and how they recruited those volunteers especially those on the docks. They were SO enthusiastic and just totally did their job so well. Thanks to them for doing their job and also giving us paddlers a good shot of support and energy just before our races.

"Held starts."
Would be nice but given that the course is in the middle of a navigation lane it might be tough to pull off.


"Fast boats should race with each other earlier in the weekend."

Race number 8 Saturday 0900 am

1. Events Alive
2. Imp Dragons
3. Dragon Beasts
4. Paddle Demons
5. CSDB
6. Cascade Women
7. Dharma Diggers

DragonSlayers were in race 9
SCC Team Chiro and Gung-ho were in Health challenge
Verdun and 3R didn't enter as a competitive team (according to the schedule, if they had, they would have ended up in race 9 against

I don't think you could get the top boats racing together much earlier than 9:00 am.

"1) While it is tough for the volunteers and officials, making a shorter lunch will ensure a slightly shorter day and hopefully avoid those 3-5 hour "breaks" between each competitor's races."

Could go back to the old format, you do either two races in the morning or afternoon on day 1. Of course this hurts the shops and such as only half the crews would be on site at a time.

"2) held starts should balance out any poor start official"

True. Either go this way or get a proper official that knows what they are doing.

"3) for the sprints, having top 8 is enough, it got confusing in the lanes plus the sprint should be 200 or 250. 100 is just not a good boat distance."

Totally disagree. Most fun race imaginable and a novelty. Awesome to watch - even more fun to paddle.

"4) louder megaphone for the starter, let's not forget it is 8 lanes across, it could be tough to hear in the outer lanes, especially if there are some loud teams while on the standby/start line. This is the same for the horn."

Way too many crews didn't hear the start gun. To fix, simply have the race official who is in the middle of the course sound the horn - once the starter cues him through the walky-talky. No extra people or cost, but cuts down the distance the sounds needs to be heard in half.

"I am kind of on the fence about the strictness on the enforcement of rules. I mean there are a lot of rec teams out there who are just here for what everyone should be here for and that is fun. Why DQ them when there is no thought of them moving on, they just want to go out there and paddle and have fun. Then again, I can see that relaxing on some rules could lead to more problems too so not sure what to think there."

It's not like they didn't let them race. I'm not sure I agree with the rule, but if they have it it must be enforced.

What exactly were you protesting? That you didn’t read the rules? Or that you alone should be exempt from a rule that’s been uniformly enforced at this festival for years?

I don’t like or understand the 20 paddler requirement (it mostly hurts local rec. crews) but the rule and the consequences are clearly stated in the manual. They simply enforced their rules as written. And you still had a second chance to do your qualifying race. So what’s the problem?

In three years of dealing with the Ottawa organizers I’ve raised plenty of issues with them and it’s never been unpleasant. I wasn’t there, but I have to believe the response you received had a lot to do with the tone you used to argue your groundless protest.

"What possible problem could it be for an out-of-town team to paddle with 19 paddlers?"

The rules clearly state that a team with less than 20 paddlers may choose to race, but their time will not be used for advancement or cup results.

The better question is why would a team from out of town make the trip if knew they didn't have the people to make there times count. If they were really just in it for the fun and did not hope to advance to Sunday, then no harm no foul, they were not DQ'd, their time just didn't count.

Just because a team is from out of town, doesn't give them a break from the rules.

All in all another great festival:
-Tent at the marshalling area guaranteed that it wouldn't be too hot or rain.
-Starter might consider moving to the upwind side of the course which might help with hearing.
-only festival I've been to where they had volunteers on crapper duty, good job makes the whole experience more pleasant when the toilets are serviced.
-hats off to the OHDBC women. After being DQ'd in there Sunday morning race, they dominated the petite final (by 10-15 sec), clearly not the race they should have been. They showed true class when they stood aside and let the 2,3,4 teams move up a spot and take home the hardware.
-lots of money raised for charity

"-Starter might consider moving to the upwind side of the course which might help with hearing."

why not just do it from the middle like suggested above?


"-hats off to the OHDBC women. After being DQ'd in there Sunday morning race, they dominated the petite final (by 10-15 sec), clearly not the race they should have been. "

Anyone know why they got DQ'd? To me this illustrates why a time penalty system should be used (unless you interfere with another crew). It was silly to have them race in the B.

Competitive crews are going to Ottawa in greater numbers and I think that'll continue. It’s now the biggest festival in the country, it's increasingly competitive and, considering the logistical challenges of hosting 190 teams, it's extremely well run.

With 8 lanes and stiff cross wind the starter took a no BS approach this weekend. Teams showing contempt for the line or the starters instructions deserve what they get... especially if it’s a horn while they’re rolling backwards or jockeying behind the line. Held starts would make things run a little easier (which the schedulers would like).

Overall, this is the best major festival in the country. No contest.

DQ'd for 19 paddlers?

What a stupid rule. It doesn't give anyone an advantage. Some rec teams can't get an entire roster, but they still want to compete with what they have. This is one rule that really shouldn't be there.

I think we all know paddlers you can contribute the most for the crew by sitting on the dock.
Not to mention the teams that are left on the waiting list with full rosters while teams without are racing.

The organizers could consider generating a small pool of paddlers who were unable to find teams (the Ottawa website does a good job of trying match paddlers/crews) that could fill in to holes at the last minute.

OHDBC women. DQ'd for not finishing in their lane. True sportswomanship for steeping aside.

With those winds? Held starts are you nuts?
I’m not an engineer, but what happens with an object that is secured at one end and a strong gust of wind blows from the side?

8 lanes: LOVED IT! If you have the room, make it 10 lanes.

19paddlers read the rules. Borrow a spare from another team.

Volunteers were extraordinary. They were the friendless bunch of people I have ever seen. From the time you arrived someone was there to say good morning, loading the boat they cheered, even at the PP Volunteers were there to cheer you on – well tell you where to go and leaving Sunday night a volunteer was there to say have a safe drive home.

My only complaints:
The checking of each lifejacket. WHY?
Starter needs a bigger loader horn. Maybe they can borrow a canon from the army. No need for a big one, a small one would do.



This was an A++++++++++++++++++++++++++ event (so I’m an e-bayer too)


Rock on.

"With those winds? Held starts are you nuts?
I’m not an engineer, but what happens with an object that is secured at one end and a strong gust of wind blows from the side?"

if you had the pontoons/floating docks lined up at the start line and held the front of the boats or drummer hold a pole, then the cox can correct the back end from the cross wind. Done before with great success. Not sure why there aren't more festivals doing it.

Great festival. Kudos again to the volunteers. I also saw them going through the trash cans to sort out recycling. With the only problem being the poor starter, all around a class-A event. All other festivals have a long way to go to match this standard. This really put the Island to shame. It will be many years before my crew will ever go back to Center Island.

"I think we all know paddlers you can contribute the most for the crew by sitting on the dock.
Not to mention the teams that are left on the waiting list with full rosters while teams without are racing."

Sounds like a response from the Ottawa organizers!!!

A very competitive regatta with some top teams from Sudbury, Toronto & Montreal making the trip to battle Ottawa's best. Where else can you race against most of the the best in eastern Canada anymore except for Club Crews and maybe GWN? The only big fix needed for this festival is a proper starting device. That feable little horn could not be heard by the far out lanes Saturday due to the wind conditions. Get a proper starting canon so that we can all hear the start. This was the second time in three years that my team and others missed their start due to an inaudible starting device. Facilties were excellent, times and overall rankings were quickly posted. Very friendly volunteers and good equipment to race in. What a superbly run and organized festival. I cannot wait to return next year despite the long drive from Toronto.

I don't know what type of pansy-ass, milque-toasts write to this forum to complain about the "Nazi" officiators, but clearly, you have NO idea what you're talking about, and really ought to clam up. You're revealing your true identity as "Captain Office-Zero", who comes from a land everyone is forced to be polite, and walk around on tippy-toes, or face losing their jobs. Maybe you just really shouldn't be involved in competitive sports, where people raise their voices, and have real rules to contend with. Perhaps you should try t-ball. It's nicer there.

The starter, and ref rocked! They were calm, but firm. They did what they had to do, and took no crap from any prima donna steersmen. It's about time, too! I LOVED when they threatened to DQ top-notch teams for non-cooperation. Rock on, baby! I ****ing LIVE for the day when they toss out a competitive team for non-compliance on the third order to back it down. THEN you'll start to see some cooperation out there, and respect for the officials.

The next time you get away from your desk to race, pay attention to how much the steersmen dick around with their positions on the start-line. Do you have ANY clue as to how many teams play games in order to secure a start position up to a dragon head over the line when the horn sounds? The starter has to manage ALL of this to ensure YOU get a fair deal, and won't have reason to come crying later on. So SHUT UP!

Nazis...

Whatever, candy-ass.

(Better not come to a race in the Montreal area any time soon. The shrieking maniac that hire as a starter out there might put you in the hospital!)

You are a joke.

"The starter, and ref rocked! They were calm, but firm. They did what they had to do, and took no crap from any prima donna steersmen. It's about time, too! I LOVED when they threatened to DQ top-notch teams for non-cooperation. Rock on, baby! I ****ing LIVE for the day when they toss out a competitive team for non-compliance on the third order to back it down. THEN you'll start to see some cooperation out there, and respect for the officials."

The starter sucked. Try being in Lane 8 and hearing a single thing the starter said. Wow! He threatened to DQ a top-notch team! LOL. He threatened to DQ them and they still ignored everything he had to say. Forcing 7 other teams to line up again twice. Yeah that was a great starter.

They should go to a time penalty system. That way the ref can ding crews without the idle yet overly serious threat of disqualifying them.

A 0.5 second penalty in the early heats will get all the crews to shape up and avoid taking one of those in the final.

The starter was not good.

Events Alive looked like they were changing alot of bodies between rounds and we heard that in the final they had at least 6 current top level national team sprint canoers and the other 6 were top level provincial team level athletes - similar with their women. They showed their disdain to us lowly dber types by going over the line and refusing to back up, having running starts, having "look at me goofing us cause this is just a joke to us" warmups while that rest of us were nervous in the marshalling area and then whooping it up when they won races our people 20 years older.

And they didn't win it on the finish. They hung on to a 2 inch win over the hard charging Beasts who were clearly ahead at the buoys (apparantly the finish line is somewhere before the buoys ).
You didn't see them whooping it up after that race. It would have been great to see the classy Beasts beat them - those guys were again first class, as they were in Quebec Cup.

So congratulations Events Alive. You won the race, but you sure didn't look good doing it.

(Are they ever going to post the damned things on the site, or what? It's been more than 24 hours since the last race.)

Events Alive - if you are going to act like that and use the ringers you have to back it up. I came away with no respect for the flatwater canoers - guys you are killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

Rock on Dragon Boat Canada. CKC has no idea or appreciation for our sport.

But they had fun!

If it's going to be anything like the previous years, the results will probably not be posted for another couple of days. They are usually pretty late at posting the final results.

What you saw as disdain for the sport, I saw as a bunch of guys and girls having fun and staying loose. Not everyone was offended, I personally enjoyed their warmup and wish I brought my own ghetto blaster to the marshalling area. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and interpretation.

I wonder if any other teams were affected by the leak in lane 6.

man... we dragon boaters can be such a bunch of dour killjoys. events alive were having fun. all this bitterness towards them reads like sour grapes. this kind of crusty self-importance sounds so pathetic. we should probably learn to loosen up a bit ourselves...

Yeah, thanks, member of Events Alive.

could someone please fill me in on where Events Alive is from?
The make-up of the team, how long have they been around?

I'm pretty new to the dragon boat world, and i havent heard of them before.

Thanks,

Events Alive's behavior on the starting line in the 100m was the only big issue for me. In the 500m they were fine. The warm up was kids having fun. Overall they were a bit like the guest at the party with a lamp shade on his head who thinks it's funny, but no one else gets the joke.

The Beer tent was great.

The awards ceremony was amazing.

Wish the venue supported better viewing.

Olympians Dave Frost and Steve Giles showed their class all weekend. Their crews were an extension of that.

The shock is how far the "true" db teams of mostly 40 somethings have come compared to the young sprinters. It's a tribute to the other crews in the final.

Thanks to the volunteers.

Come to race in Montreal at Quebec Cup!!!!!!!

Events Alive are canoeists from Rideau CC. They race DB once a year at the Ottawa Festival. They've always won this festival whenever they've attended. They lost a heat to Cdn. Snrs. this weekend, which is probably a first for them. Would've been a great test for Mayfair.

This is a common complaint but the announcers were really brutal.

While the races are coming down it is clear that they have taken no personal interest in the teams as they refer to the teams as numbers.
"2 looks like they are in the lead, 5 is coming up now 7 is etc. etc."

Can you imagine a hockey game being announced with "no. 5 has the puck now over to 3, oh 7 colided with 8, there is a shot by 3, great save by 1.

How are you going to make this sport more popular with the spectators with commentary like that?

A great announcer, from which everyone can learn, is the one at the Toronto Island Festival. I believe his name is John Ford.

Otherwise a great festival.

Hello All,

Well, it is 11:20 AM on Tuesday morning we just returned from the final tear down of the site. Oh what eleven days of production brings out. I am so pleased with our staff's performance and as always have plenty to learn from our experience. As you are all aware we are always open to constructive criticism and are the one festival that listens to people and makes changes.

With regard to the Anonymous person that wrote on the forum that we are "The organizers are arrogant, officious pr**ks, surpassing FMG with Nazi-like enforcement of nonsense rules", I am hoping they call me directly at 613 238-7711 ext 225. It is one thing to hide behind a forum, and another to be accountable for your comment. You all be the judge.

As an example of issues dealt with on site and rules and deadline ignored - a team captain who was completely unorganized, had not read the rules, not responded to the emails from Stephanie, my team services coordinator, was forced to wait in a line with many others who had not completed rosters or submitted waivers by the well published deadline. What upset me about this more than the line up was the manner in which the individual spoke to Steph. He was incredibly rude to Steph over something that was the individual's own fault. He even went on to say before a paddle even hit the water that this is worst organized process he had experieced. The rudeness was so bad that Stephanie was later in tears after working all year to try and make this the best possible experience for everyone. Is this really acceptable behaviour? Have you any idea how hard we try to please? Any team that follows the kind instructions from Steph throughout the process finds themselves with a fistfull of bracelets within five minutes of the team captain's meeting. Do we have room for improvement, of course we do. Any festival that has the number of variables we have taking place at the same time can always improve, however there is no room for this kind of behavour.

I really do hope that individual calls me directly instead of slamming our dedicated staff. Perhaps we can understand why this team did not arrive prepared and help them in the future instead of abusing people that work so hard on this great event everyear. Perhaps the fact that a team has diffficlty organizing 22 people will help them understand how difficult it is to organize 4971 paddlers, which was our total for this year. You will all laugh at me when I tell you, the team and race component of our festival is actually the easiest part of the weekend to manage. You should see how difficult the entertainers, concessions, exhibitors and suppliers can be. Anyway, that is a whole other story.

To everyone else out there, we thank you for your support, and please know that our door is always open for healthy constructive criticism. Our goal is to make this the number one festival in the world and that includes all the elements of 2007.

Registration begins November 1st, 2007 if anyone is interested.

Take Care All,



John

Nortel Championship Final
1 Events Alive 1:58.99
2 Dragon Beasts 1:59.22
3 Canadian Senior Dragonboat Club – Mixed 1:59.70
4 SCC Team Chiropractic 2:00.28
5 Imperial Dragons 2:01.03
6 Verdun DBC – Adrenaline 2:03.04
7 Wong's DBC Dragon Slayers 2:03.64
8 3R Dragon 2:04.62

BDC B Final
1 BMO Groupe financier 2:06.98
2 CASCADES GRAND MASTERS 2:07.73
3 PADDLE DEMONS 2:08.06
4 Gung Ho-Barrhaven/Eagleson Dental Associates 2:08.46
5 Team Chaos 2:08.77
6 ADRENALINE Dräger Medical 2:09.35
7 WRCC Master's A 2:10.20

Monterey Inn Resort C Final
1 Sudbury Canoe Club Dragons 2:12.57
2 Junior Achievement Komodo Dragons 2:12.84
3 Old Skul'd 2:13.61
4 RBC Comets 2:14.16
5 Phoenix ETS 2:14.47
6 PanaCEAA 2:14.96
7 HSBC HOLY SMOKIN' BOATIN' CREW 2:15.54

Minto Developments D Final
1 Nectar Protectors 2:14.56
2 RBC Royal Dragons 2:14.92
3 Montreal Thunder 2:15.33
4 CN Aquatrain 2:15.59
5 CSBD-Magic Dragons 2:15.98
6 PADDLE DEMONS II 2:16.60
7 Nepean Masters 2:16.87
8 Stroke the Dragon 2:17.03

Brymark Promotions E Final
1 Ruban en Route 2:15.52
2 Shockwave DBC 2:15.84
3 Hellfish 2:16.12
4 Giv'er the BUSINESS 2:16.47
5 Tunney's Torpedoes 2:17.11
6 Asian Dragons 2:18.17
7 JLR Blue Streak 2:19.13


complete list: http://www.dragonboat.net/pdf/2007_sunday_final_race_results.pdf

this weekend was the first time i attended the ottawa festival and i have to say it is by far the best festival i have attended, i enjoyed everything about the festival with the exception of the windyness of saturday, but hey that comes with the sport. just want to say thanks to everyone that helped run this festival you guys did an amazing job and i am looking forward to attending again for many years to come. to the individual that was knocking the ottawa committee, i say you are a total idiot, for you to rank the ottawa committee below FMG you gotta on some serious crack, i don't think anyone can beat FMG. in the end, i had an amazing weekend and will look forward to doing it again, see you all next year.

to (fake) Crystal Nipple's predictions. Comments?


1 Canadian Senior Dragonboat Club
2 Dragon Beasts Competitive
3 Sudbury Canoe Club Dragons
4 Imperial Dragons Competitive
5 Wong's DBC Dragon Slayers Competitive
6 Verdun DBC - Adrenaline
7 BMO Groupe financier Financial Services
8 CASCADES GRAND MASTERS Competitive
9 Shockwave DBC
10 Phoenix ETS Education
11 PADDLE DEMONS Competitive
12 SCC Team Chiropractic Health Care & Ambulance Services
13 RBC Comets Financial Services
14 Gung Ho-Barrhaven/Eagleson Dental Associates Health Care & Ambulance Services
15 Junior Achievement Komodo Dragons Education
16 RBC Royal Dragons Financial Services
17 Team Chaos
18 Giv'er the BUSINESS Education
19 Nepean Masters Over 40
20 Old Skul'd Competitive
21 Montreal Thunder Professional Groups
22 Team CIBC Financial Services
23 PanaCEAA Provincial & Federal Government
24 Nectar Protectors Provincial & Federal Government
25 CN Aquatrain Building & Development
26 Asian Dragons
27 Blue Dragons Police & Firefighters
28 RBC Golden Lions Financial Services
29 Tunney's Torpedoes Provincial & Federal Government
30 Hellfish Provincial & Federal Government
31 ADRENALINE Dräger Medical Health Care & Ambulance Services
32 CMC Dragoneers High Tech
33 Fleet of Foote High Tech
34 The Bold, The Bald and The Beautiful
35 X-Rated Pirates Health Care & Ambulance Services
36 Crime Waves
37 EMS Satcom Smoke on the Water High Tech
38 Scotia Spitfires Financial Services
39 Mexican Dragon Embassies & Foreign Missions
40 Drowning Dragons
41 Gasp & Wheeze Provincial & Federal Government
42 The Black Pearl Provincial & Federal Government
43 Dharma Diggers Competitive
44 Catch Us If You CAn
45 CU in 'R Wake Education
46 Get Kraken

If anything Events Alive were really only acting their age. Can you really knock them for staying loose and having fun? If you were thrown off by that then you should check yourself first. I agree their behaviour for the 100M was an annoyance, but really though I can't believe that you can actually complain that you were outclassed by a better paddler. Suck it up and come back stonger.

Way to go John.

Unfortunately I had to miss the festival this year, but I have always been impressed with your flexibility, and willingness to adapt to the needs of the paddlers.

Ottawa is one of the most impressive festivals I have been to in the seven years I have been paddling.

Try not to let the trolls on this forum get to you here. For a little context of the personalities that dwell out here check out the thread on "cancer survivor teams diminish the sport" or the misogynist drivel regarding the OHDBC women's regatta.

I recommend taking John up on his offer to call him with some contstructive criticism, both he and Stephanie should be commended for their efforts in putting this festival together.

I heard that Events Alive brought in people for the final from other parts of the country that were not kids from Rideau Canoe Club, but were top level National team athletes attending the National team flatwater training camp for the world championships which happened to be in Ottawa.

I don't know if thats bad - but it's a couple levels up from "kids from Rideau Canoe Club".

Just setting the record straight.

I'm pretty sure they didn't bring in anyone who wasn't Rideau. That being said Rideau has national level atheletes.

'Trolls on the forum'? How about 'organizers of the race pretending to be objective observers'?

There is a lot that's good about this festival -community involvement, competition, dock volunteers, site, etc,- But the officials and organizers are NOT 'flexible' or accommodating. More like 'arrogant' and 'caffinated'. Kinda like the TCBA festival organizers were a few years ago.

The Island organizers seem much nicer now. You connect the dots.

John,

I hope you don't take offence. I think everyone recognizes there are some immmature, cowardly and downright rude people on this forum that post anonymously. As you can see, the bulk of the people including myself think the festival was VERY well run and a pleasure to participate in. Most likely the idiots running around bad mouthing are just cowardly people who may or may not have even participated in the event and are just looking to trash.
There are however, some good points made (suggestions even) from some other posters and if possible, it would be great to integrate but I for one, even if things are status quo will be back next week. It really was a well run premiere event. Good staff, EXCELLENT volunteers and well run festival. Now let's move on to the impossible, how do we control those winds?

our experience with John and Stephanie is that they havebeen flexible and accomodating to our reasonable concerns, and our feedback that we have provided to them.

What was your specific concern? What wrong could they not right for you? Maybe if you actually gave us an example of how they were not accomodating and then we could get a real objective discussion on the matter.

Otherwise coming on here and making broad statements without anything to back it up, is weak.

And yes there are lots of trolls out here. If you take that personally, that is up to you.

thanks for the info anon June 26 2007, 9:32 AM

Lets look at those "Rideau Kids"

Richard Dalton - National Team CKC - Halifax
Andrew Russell - National Team CKC - Halifax
Ben Russell - National Team CKC - Halifax
Ryan Cochrane - National Team CKC - Halifax
Angus Mortimer - National Team CKC - Ottawa
Rhy Hill - National Team CKC - Ottawa

I guess Mark Oldershaw and Kyle Jefferies were busy.

"For a little context of the personalities that dwell out here check out the thread on 'cancer survivor teams diminish the sport' or the misogynist drivel regarding the OHDBC women's regatta."

Yup. Typical.
If it doesn't fit the PC mindset, or even remotely questions the extra privileges women demand/expect/are granted automatically, it called trash, and misogynist drivel. If anyone dares to question, and say, "Hey, just a minute here...", they're run underground.

Rideau's crew is testament to how much this sport has evolved.

It now takes a crew of national team canoeists to win a major festival, and barely at that. G&G has already been beat by dragon boaters who train together.

Granted, the beasts are mostly ex-flatwater, the CSDC seniors are not.

almost there....

Yeah, you didn't bring it up first, but please take it outside.

Restart your debate about women's regattas in a separate thread, and let the forum moderators deal with it as they see fit.

But don't pollute THIS debate with THAT debate. It's just rude.

The seniors are not? I don't know about the crew as a whole but many of the people I know on the team do have a flat water background.

Why aren't those Halifax guys listed above on the Beasts team?

I think its great to have flatwater dudes try out dragonboat. Hopefully then can appreciate and enjoy just like we do! The more the merrier.

I think if you back far enough you'll see some significant flat-water experience on the CSDC including ex-Olympians. I think before you find a DB team that is pure (ie no one if any flat water experience)that is competitive against some of the top teams which all seem to have at least some flat water paddlers, there needs to be more investment in youth programs.

"Why aren't those Halifax guys listed above on the Beasts team?"

I don't think they knew they were paddling DB until Saturday night after Events Alive were given a scare. The Halifax guys are in town for a CKC national camp going on at Rideau.

"But don't pollute THIS debate with THAT debate. It's just rude."

Right because my views aren't PC then it is polluting. I thought being PC meant being inclusive and tolerant of other people's views even if they don't fit into the "PC" perception.

ok ok ok, i am not that guy. I am way to PC to be him.

in the east, the highest quality "pure" DB team is probably the Montreal women

Does SCC Chiro have flatwater pedigree?

I don't think Chiro does.

Yes the montreal WET are sooooo pure.

I am getting sooooooo tired of hearing people fragment the paddling community, as though it has any meaning. Flatwater versus Db "pure" paddlers. Who cares! Imagine Nascar talking about how the sport is being ruined because some open wheeled driver came in to an event and placed well! Actually, for all I know this has happened.

Nonetheless.

Why should anyone care what sport someone does other than DB. I could understand the debate if paddlers from other disciplines insisted on paddling their Canoe next to a dragon boat. Not happening. They are paddling dragon boats. And who cares whether they paddle in DB daily or just occasionally and race well? Doesn't matter.

The only time this stuff matters is when club crew and national squads are being chosen, and race-offs are required. As long as crews meet minimum requirements, again who cares what else is being done?

I certainly enjoy having the best competition possible.

So, who's the fastest crew? That's all that matters.

"I don't think they knew they were paddling DB until Saturday night after Events Alive were given a scare. The Halifax guys are in town for a CKC national camp going on at Rideau."

So does this mean these guys weren't on their roster and hadn't signed waivers?

Any surprise or deception from the results?

The Ottawa results for Sunday just seem to be the finals? Where are the morning heats?

Hello John,

I hope you didn't (and don't) take offense to all those anonymous morons who are bit#$g about the poor officiating.
I for one thing you've done an amazing job. I remember that I (almost) laughed out loud when in the "B"after orderingg the teams for the Xth time to move back , you commented sarcastically " I don't see any paddles moving". God I barely restrained a laughter as did the rest of the team ! LOL

More seriously.. the only beef that I have is the start itself.... we can barely hear.... especially those in lanes 7 or 8

TO ALL ANONYMOUS PADDLERS (AND STEERSPERSON) who keep whinnig about starts.
Dont' you guys realize that your constant "playing games" at the start slows down races by 1 to 2 minutes per race ?
Multiply those minutes per number of races and it's no wonder festivals finish so late !!

TO ALL ANONYMOUS PADDLERS (AND STEERSPERSON) who keep whinnig about rules.
Sweet Jesus ! Where did you take on your reading classes ? Just read the rules and if yo don'T like them (or understand them) speak with the OC (organizing commitee) and try to sort it out with them. If nothing works..... too bad Jumbo ! Rules are the same for everyone

TO ALL ANONYMOUS PADDLERS who keep wondering (and whining) why that women team for DQ'ed :
Stop it already ! The women in that boat are perfectly aware of the reason why. They accept (though some don't like it) that they got DQ'ed and were real sports about it. Stop inventing stupid and starting false rumours .Shhhheeesh !! Freaking trolls ! Oh. They got DQ'ed cause they finished the race in the "wrong" lane. That's what I officially heard from one of the female paddlers. If anyone has another reason (very unlikely), let me know !

IMPROVEMENTS (or things I liked)


TOP of the list : The volounteers ? Whehre do you get them ? Surely not in a bag of cracker jacks ! they so freaking cool .
I think I'll come bak (again) just for them !!!

A tent in the marshalling area. Great to stay in the shade or hide from the rain . DO NOT EVER change this

The venue... freaking great ! U can actually eat something else then Chinese food ! Amazing . Hey Montreal OC are you guys reading this ? There are MANY DIFFERENT PLACES (not just one small cafetaria) where you can buy non asian food !

I know this may seem stooopid, but the BABY CHANGE TENT, a great thought for all those young families out there. Keep it !

Beer tent........ huummmm beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer ! Need I say more ?

NEGATIVE :

Seriously, without having very bad team compete agains very good teams.. could you guys kinda mix it up a bit ?
I spent the whole saturday racing against the same teams and on the sunday race against the same set of teams twice !!!

All,

Keep it coming in a constructive way. I have assigned Chris Raines, our Volunteer Coordinator and also a DB paddler who happened to have paddled at the worlds in South Africa a few years back, to comb through this entire thread and compose a complete listing of all contructive advice that may allow us to change things. We will also add the emails that are being sent to our office. Once this process is complete we will sit down with our board and discuss everything. At that point decisons and changes will be made for 2008. This is the exact method we have used for the past three years. Remember, it was three years ago that Ottawa used the old wooden boats. Also, do not forget to call me directly anytime if you want to discuss things in more depth. I did not receive any calls today. Probably a good thing as we announced to the press yesterday that Nortel is stepping down leaving us up to our eye balls in press interviews and discussions about securing a new title sponsor. Please let us know your thoughts about improvements as soon as possible because we will be finalizing this list by the end of July and making final decisions for 2008 in early September.

Thank You,
John

I agree that the start is the biggest problem and has been a problem ever since I've started racing in Ottawa (2002). Something has to be done about that ASAP.

Another problem is the posting of the Saturday results and schedule for Sunday on the web. I know it's a lot of work but when it is indicated that the results and/or the schedule will be posted by 9 PM, it should be posted by then. Not close to 10:30 pm.

I do not know the roster for the Sudbury Chiros, but it doesnt seem that they have any flatties. They have consistently been around and have always fought hard. Good turn out from them and the Mtl teams. Very impressive showing again (as usual). It's nice to see a serious team from a small city give national teams a run.
Thanks for supporting the sport.

John,

you need much better officials. guys who can control washriding and a startline. a great event, but a joke for competitive teams.

I'd also suggest getting dragon boaters on the race committee. the ckc guys are out of touch... (hence the many comments about the poor race structure)

Tell those refs to start getting TOUGH with teams that play games at the start line. There was some great talk from the starter in the final A, but way too many warnings.

Once, just ONCE, I'd love to see a team get thrown right off the line for wasting everybody's time, and for deliberately dicking everybody around, breaking everyone's focus, trying to psyche out their opponents, and trying to gain the advantages of inches.

Hey... like dogs... they'll push, and push, and push to see where the boundaries are, and how much they can get away with. The more chances you give 'em, the more turf they'll take.

Enough warnings. Warnings mean nothing. The steersmen know EXACTLY what they're doing. Snap these ****ers into line, and show them who runs the show.

I can tell you who runs the show NOW: The steersmen do. The steersmen own the refs. Shame on you for letting that happen.

Tell those refs to start ejecting teams for start-line offences, and BACK THEM UP! GET REFS YOU CAN TRUST, AND BACK UP THEIR DECISIONS WHEN TEAMS COME CRYING LIKE BABIES, AFTER HAVING BEEN EJECTED, GIVEN NUMEROUS WARNINGS! DON'T LEAVE YOUR STAFF HANGING OUT IN THE BREEZE!

You've got experienced paddlers complaining about the starts. Here's the solution. CLAMP DOWN!!!

Who cares! Imagine Nascar talking about how the sport is being ruined because some open wheeled driver came in to an event and placed well! Actually, for all I know this has happened.

It happened already. Juan Pablo Montoya made the jump over from F1 last year and won a Busch League Race (Nascar's Development Circuit) last year and just last week won his first Nextel Cup race. Theres talk of JV (Villeneuve) trying to secure a ride as well. Interesting fact, I believe the Montreal DB race course? is bordered by the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve (named after his father) and where the Montreal F1 Race is held every June, easily one of the most popular events on the F1 circuit.

Back to the debate...

John, why only womens team but not mens team?

Here we go again.

Ha ha!

Wow! This is the best any breast cancer team has ever done in a big festival. Second place! Congrats, Dragon Breasts! It shows how far the breast cancer survivor women have come in this sport!

"I think its great to have flatwater dudes try out dragonboat. Hopefully then can appreciate and enjoy just like we do! The more the merrier."


Who do you think brought Dragon Boating to the "East" from BC many years ago?

It was the sprinters that did.

Top 3 crews in Ottawa this year are generally made up of sprinters.

Get down to your local canoe club and try it out. You may like it.

who brought dragon boating east?

The chinese did you dope.

flatwater dragonboater whatever, the top crews are the ones that train together. unless events alive and other canoe clubs do alike, they will be passed. look at how the gap has closed on events alive while their paddler quality has improved.

"Who do you think brought Dragon Boating to the "East" from BC many years ago?

It was the sprinters that did."

No, it wasn't.

Sprinters dominated the racing from a competitive perspective because they were already trained paddlers with similar skills, but dragon boat racing was brought "east" by Chinese Cultural groups, like the TCBA. You think MCC, Burloak, Rideau or others were the impetus behind dragon boat festivals in Ontario?

Nice try.

"TO ALL ANONYMOUS PADDLERS (AND STEERSPERSON) who keep whinnig about starts.
Dont' you guys realize that your constant "playing games" at the start slows down races by 1 to 2 minutes per race ?
Multiply those minutes per number of races and it's no wonder festivals finish so late !!"

All competative teams want is a fair start. It is the starters job to try and ensure this. So why all the jockeying on the line? Easy, a few teams push the line, the starter trys to call them back, threatens to disqualify them, but then starts the race anyways with them a few feet over the line. The next race people wise up and everyone is pushing the line trying not to be left behind.

Any team that actually listened to the starter got screwed as they backed up when no one else was and the teams that ignored the starter end up only getting threatened with disqualification.

Disqualification for jockeying at the start is far too harsh, nobody wants to give this out including the ref. If the festival were to move to a time based penalty system, you could hit misbehaving teams with a 0.5 second penalty. This is probably not that critical for a team early on in the festival, but by Sunday, a 0.5 second penalty could be costly. Those that have jockeyed and got dinged will suddenly listen.

I agree that the starter and this idle talk tough threats didn't work. A more professional approach with time penalties is warrented.

I recently had the opportunity to act as Starting Official at the Stouffville Dragon Boat race, and it was an interesting experience. I count myself fortunate that by and large, most of the teams played fair and didn't try to take excessive advantage. Of course, at a smaller regatta the stakes are lower and there seems to be less gamesmanship going on. I shudder to think what Ottawa must have been like, with high performance teams and high performance coaches all looking to get the best possible starting position for their teams. Yikes, what a nightmare!

One observation I can share is that the worst part about starting a race are the teams that don't listen when you tell them to bring their boat up to the line. I guess they hope that as the last boat up to the line they have the best chance at getting a running start. So you get most of the boats line up nicely, but by the time the laggard boat(s) finally get up to line it's all screwed up. My solution to this was that any team that took too long to get to the line, or didn't listen when I ordered them up got left behind. Also, I asked for and was granted the leeway to assess up to a 5 second Time Penalty for any blatant disobedience. Thankfully I never had to exercise this discretion. Practically speaking I think that 2 seconds is the minimum penalty that would make a difference. Hand a few of those out and teams will sit up and take notice.

As a paddler, I have agree that bad starts are a major dissatisfier. Jockeying for position is all part of the game, and experienced racers know how to keep their cool, but when starts are consistently unfair it can get frustrating. So I agree, if some teams don't want to play fair, give 'em the old Dairy Queen treatment, or a the very least a hefty TP.

OK,

So, who is the very best Draogn Boat starter in the world? Back in the day I was on the Olympic Team in Sailing and thier was always one guy who was considered the best judge hand down. Thier must be someone who is considered the best. I am hoping you all do not turn this request into a shooting match over who you consider the best. let's try to really narrow it down to one or two people.

I apreciate your help.

John

For some reason the forum said annoymous however the last message was from me.

John Brooman

My favorite starter was 2002 WCCC in Italy, this man was the best i have ever seen.

James help me out (the name?)

Q: Seems like a strange rule; why were spare paddles not allowed in the boat?

Request: A coffee vendor would be very much appreciated.

Suggestion: Video on the start line and penalties assessed for early starters.

I don't remember his name, but he was great!

"Number One, can you hear me? Thank you."
"Number Two, can you hear me? Ah, good strong wave. Very nice."
"Number Three, iz zere a problem? Please, would you join us at the start line? Yes? Thank you, very good."
etc.

Nice guy, but maybe a bit expensive to fly him in to Ottawa?

John Hollins is pretty good, IMO.

Starter I believe was from Germany. I think his name is Arnie Ditsch.

why do u hardcore dragonboaters have so much against putting flatwater paddlers in the boat. They are racers too just cuz they have been paddling canoe or kayak which is alot more technical and takes alot more work than dragonboat to be good at, u get mad when they get in a dragonboat pick up the technique really quick and then beat u at it. i paddle flatwater kayak and im on the junior national dragonboat team and our coach is making the team paddle war canoe all year because it makes u better at dragonboat. we have other flatwater kids from the beaches that come down to very few dragonboat practices because our coach knows they are working extremly hard on that and on race day they will race well with little practice because the technique is so much easier to pick up. what do u think is harder paddling on one knee like u do in war canoe or paddling sitting down in a dragonboat.

we hate you cause you refuse to use capitals or punctuation often have speling mistaaks and ramble on and on and on without saying anything that some fathead flatwater paddler hasnt already said like five hundred freakin times already and always with the idea that we hate you cause you beat us but really we hate you because your stupid and cant write at higher than a grade 5 level.


Now before anyone gets seriously worked up here, I'm kidding. There ARE intelligent sprint paddlers out there, but most of them have the sense to stay off the forum.

Besides, that was just fun to write.

Anon from June 27 2007, 11:09 AM
which of the junior national teams do u paddle for, fairport or rouge ?

jnr national team member....but definately not a sprint paddler.

most authoritative starters are the quebec guys.

(Sigh...) That was beautiful, man. It felt so good to read your response. I'd go gay just for you, dude.

"most authoritative starters are the quebec guys."

What? Are you kidding? The shrieking maniac?

Hey the reason we have the sport in the east as we know it today was both on behalf of the Chinese business association and Mr. John Hollins. Yes a flat water coach. First team from the east to go to the worlds in Hong Kong was sprinters coached by the man who helped bring the sport here. No sprinters could not do it all themselves without the help of many other parties. It was a joint effort. Know your history before you start talking crap. But i guess that statement won't mean much to the posters as they are what I like to call a 6th year vet. You think you know everything from the perfect technique to the history of the sport in all parts of the world. The reality is you know nothing. Just what your coaches tell. Which should be "shut up and paddle."

since 88

Bang on.
Ask around the DB Community and see who remembers the frist few years at the Island
and which Caoe clubs were there.

I've typically found the Montreal area starters to be good. I've done the Lachine festival for the last three years and never had a compaint about the starts.

I'd look for someone who acts professionally instead of trying to bully crews through intimidation on the line.

It would be good to remind Montreal starters that some visiting teams may not speak French. At Lachine this year, the starter gave his directions in French only for at least one race.

Events Alive guys were all on the roster...it was known in advance who would be around.

It's also very likely that some teams won't speak English... Quebec technically is French only, so it would make sense for the starters to be French too... It would be quite comical to see them try to do a bilingual start, lol!

well said:
I'd look for someone who acts professionally instead of trying to 'bully crews through intimidation on the line.'

I was at Lachine and he did not start a single race in french.

Ya that would be jokes. I want it english first so my team gets a head start. But really it's not hard to learn a couple of words in french. Do you think in HK they anounce in english. Not when i was there. Your coach/steersman should know the call regardless. Even if it's in pig latin.

At Lachine the Start was in English but when giving direction to individual crews to come up to the line (or back it down, don't know), he only used French, which was cause for confusion.

French speaking crews don't expect french instructions when racing in Ottawa or at GWN so the same should be expected when racing the Quebec.

Exactly! If your steersperson can't understand basic calls, that are pretty much the same everywhere. You need to get someone with a clue. It's not hard to figure out if everyone else is at the line, it's a good idea for your team to be there too. It's also not hard to figure out that you are over the line and the ref is yelling your lane number. It's a good indication that he wants you to back it down. I don't speak a lick of french but i've never had any problems on the line in any contry and any language. It's really nothing but a poor excuse from people who would balme everyone but there coach for messing up. If your crew misses a start or is behind the line when the gun goes off, blame your coach. Is that not why you pay them. It's there JOB to give you every advantage and understand what's happening at all times.

There has been a lot of talk about the starter in Ottawa and starts in general. I saw only one start this past weekend and it was the 100m sprint. What I saw was one team blatantly (IMO) ignoring the starter, which then led to the other teams being blown over the line and then all teams having to back down. We all know that the top teams like to play at the starting line, trying to get any advantage they can. I can say this because I did it. We made it an art...coming to the line last, "pumping" the boat from seat 10 while keeping our top hands still, whatever. Yes, you want the advantage, but not at the risk of getting the schedule of the festival running late, or by increasingly annoying the starter. I liked James' comments about his starter's experience, leave the boats behind if they don't come to the line in time, but if they won't back down when the starter repeatedly tells them to then perhaps a time penalty is the best solution. I don't think we want to get into DQing teams over something like this.

The only purely fair way to start a DB race is with held starts, and that's unlikely to happen at this or many other events. It's too costly and most of the water courses used would not allow such a set up.

You think it's tough to start a race in Ontario, try visiting the Victoria festival where boats occasionally have to leave the line to let a ferry through the race course!

Thanks to all those people who left nice comments about our volunteers, I really appreciate hearing the good feedback.

not hard to install some small docks for a held start. they make enough money...

Wow i think you missed the point. Even with small docks you have to string lines uner the water and attach to something on shore. you can't rely on anchers. Or what you have is alot of little uneven docks at the start line. With the wind Ottawa gets it's very difficult and really not worth it. It's very easy to sit in your arm chair and say it's easy to do, but unless you have done it you have no clue. Then even if you do get them in. Then you have the crying on the forum that the little kid held onto the boat too tight, or they had our nose pointed crooked. Or in the case of what happened at GWN a few years ago. Kid falls in the water and his reaction is to grab onto the boat at the begaining of the start. i'm sure that slowed the team down a bit. Funny to laugh at now but if i was steering, the kid i'm sure the kid would have lost the hand holding onto my boat. Ya they may be able to afford it but what do you think happens when they spend more and don't get R.O.I. they did the previous year. The price goes up. Above poster please think before you write.

I don't know that money would be the issue. Because the Rideau Canal is a fairly busy waterway, there might be issues with installing platforms and leaving them there overnight for a few days.

"Events Alive guys were all on the roster...it was known in advance who would be around."

No one doubts that they were smart enough to have them on the roster. The problem was that some kid raced as Richard Dalton (and Andrew Russell) right up to the finals when the real Richard Dalton showed up. John Edwards who is the Domestic Coordinator of CKC and on the organizing committee knew what they were doing because he knows them all. Why didn't he do anything when he knew they were putting kids under other names, well maybe because his daughter was in the crew.

Everyone that raced in Events Alive all week-end was on the roster. Some of the top guys were training over the week-end and didn't want to race all of the preliminary races and only wanted to race finals. Because of that they put in some other young paddlers (who were on the roster) to give them experience for future years. This group is really just a bunch of good friends that get together once a year for a fun race week-end. I don't see why everyone is jumping all over them.

Because the appearance was the Events Alive just kept putting in National teamers until they won. This is not a flattie versus dragon boat thing, but a spirit of competition thing.

Suppose Mayfair had a dragon boat training camp in Ottawa that weekend. CSDB team, expecting to win easily, finds that they are coming 2nd and 3rd through the rounds, and while they aren't going all out, either are the other two top crews. So in the final they put in 3 or 4 of Mayfairs best paddlers, who show up for a couple hours of the two day festival and then leave. They leave their CSDB teamates on the shore and put in the Mayfair guys so they can win.

Bear in mind that CSDB, Sudbury, the Dragon Beasts, Wongs, etc are year round teams with set rosters - they train and race as set teams. In the Beasts case they each paid about $1000 for the privilege of going to Ottawa and racing other set teams and rosters.

I think Events Alive should just be saying it was all about putting together the best paddlers they could get at one event and winning. Which they did.

For the other teams it was about training as a set group and testing themselves against other set groups.

As long as Events Alive followed the roster rules (I believe rosters permitted 26 paddlers, a steerer and a drummer) - which won't have permitted more than changing 6 bodies, they did nothing wrong other than make a joke of the 100m start.

And let's give credit to the other teams. A loaded up Events Alive team and the Dragon Beasts virtually dead heated. I was on the line and I was certain the Beasts won - that's not to call the result into question but simply to say how close it was. CSDB and Sudbury were not far behind. The time was 1:59 into a fair sized head wind.

And incidently the Beasts finish had to be seen to be believed. Beasts - I am in awe. You have another fan. Pleae come back to Ottawa next year.

Here's hoping people give up on this thread.

On behalf of the Dragon Beasts I would like to thank the Ottawa volunteers and organizers for running a great festival.

With respect to the comments about Events Alive, etc. I would like people to know that as a crew, the Dragon Beasts believe that they were beaten in the final by a crew of paddlers that were 2 inches better. No excuses. Congratulations to Events Alive and the other competitors in the final.

I consider Scott Seaby, who I've toured with internationally, to be a stand up gentlemen and I'd like to particularly congratulate him on his work on behalf of the festival, and for his words to me both before and after the race.

And to our Nova Scotian friends in the winning boat good luck in the Worlds and we'll see you around the lake.

Well said Albert. The Beasts are a class act.

To answer the question regarding mens teams, this request was made by a team two years three years ago. We approved it and created a mens category and then no one signed up except for one team, that ironicially was not the team that had made the request. We were a little annoyed at this team as the whole thing made us look really bad. Soooo... we did not try it again the next year. If thier was a serious demand for a mens only division and we were assured not toplaced int he same compromising position again then it is no problem to create the division and hold the races.

The truth is folks Event Alive followed 100% the roster rules and you should also know John Edwards does not see the rosters prior to the festival. The only person who see's them is Steph. Call her if you like. 613 238-7711 ext 226. Before anyone decides to jump on me for this and say I show favourtism because I am in Ottawa, ask Scott Seabey how I handled his team and the VIP tent a few years back. It was not pretty.

Any chance of full results for Sunday John? It's been a week after the festival and we still can't see how we did in that first race on Sunday.

Its just sad that people are so threatend by a bunch of athletes looking to have fun and win the event. Of course they are going to put in their best for the finals. Maybe that was the difference, or it could have been the extra time in the boat. Either way they were good...

John Brooman, you are the best.

Never seen/heard an organiser spend so much time clarifying and making sure everyone is happy at the end of the day.

2 thumbs up to you and your staff.


Held starts?

G-day!

I may be mistaken, John, but I believe it was suggested to your office that in order to get a Men's race going, especially in the early years, it would be more reasonable to offer it for free or at a discount. To pay the full price is onerous because Men's crews are often comprised of paddlers from two or more mixed teams who have already paid the full entry fee. Other festivals have done this (GWN and Sudbury, to name two).

As far as I can tell, Ottawa, Vancouver, Toronto and other events are not money making ventures. They could provide a discount for men's events, but they would also have to do it for women's events. A number of women's teams only compete in the women's division. They could also create discount/free divisions for breast cancer survivors, gays-lesbian-bisexuals, political parties and vision impaired crews.

If they did this, the regular division (mixed) fees would have to go up to compensate for the "specialty discounted" divisions.

I have seen the following:
* full fees for everyone
* discounted fees for specialty divisions
* free admission to foreign crews
* discounted fees for specialty division for crews that have paid full price in the mixed division

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By the way, I wasn't at Ottawa, but I saw something really cool that was equivalent to the baby change rooms. In Victoria, they had guys urinals, which incredibly shortened men lining up for the port-a-potties.

Anyhow, gotta go and paddle

I don't think anyone was threatened. It appeared from the number of bodies changed on Sunday that Events Alive was not following the rules.

Albert McDonald from the Beasts said they had no issue with EA and John B from the Festival said all rules were followed so it's a dead issue.

It was quite an eye opener to see how the gap has closed between teams like the Beasts and Mayfair with teams like EA and G&G.